Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song

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Well Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song got banned. Any thoughts?
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As somebody who was playtesting his newly built storm deck, I can safely assure the DCI that I am very unhappy that I got hit by a ban out of left field. 

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
Well Jund was rather dominant and hard to fight, and Storm was an easy turn 3 kill and no one likes a turn 3 kill.
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Front: PigKnight, One Line Poster (3W) Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Vigilance When this creature dies, return him to play and transform him. (2/3) >(5/3)< Back: (Black)ZombiePiggles, Eater of Tomato Sauce Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Zombie Trample, Intimidate B: Regenerate this creature. When this creature is the target of a white spell, transform this creature. (5/3)

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/15.jpg)

Yes! Take that Jund and Naya, and everything else my RG Tron deck has ever lost against.

Storm takes a big hit without Seething Song. In fact, I'm not even sure it'll be viable anymore. I've proxy tested some weird Past in Flames Storm decks before, but I've never really played Storm extensively enough to know how it'll cope without its biggest mana accelerator.

As for Bloodbraid Elf, while it will hinder Jund and other RG aggro decks, I don't think it'll kill them. Jund will miss its free turn three/four thing, but I think it can survive without it, though it makes me think there might be a influx of Junk decks.

Overall, I think they did a good job on the bannings. Not sure if Storm needed it, but Jund was getting out of hand.
Honestly Bloodbraid was the only value Jund card, the rest were 1-for-1s except for a few sweepers that required over extension to 1-for-X.
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Front: PigKnight, One Line Poster (3W) Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Vigilance When this creature dies, return him to play and transform him. (2/3) >(5/3)< Back: (Black)ZombiePiggles, Eater of Tomato Sauce Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Zombie Trample, Intimidate B: Regenerate this creature. When this creature is the target of a white spell, transform this creature. (5/3)

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/15.jpg)

The biggest problem is it is the middle of PTQ season with Modern, and many of us 9me and some of my friends) have bought and play tested these decks and cards and now have to pick new decks or totally revamp them with like a week before our PTQ, that is just dumb. Seething song is insane to ban, and even though I can understand BBE, I think they need to wait until the season is over. Storm is only represented so high on MTGO b/c it is fairly cheap, it is not played nearly as much irl.
I think the reason for Song to be banned was that BBE was banned.  Without the large amount of Jund in the format, a multi-card combo deck would be pretty tough to keep under wraps without counterspells actually being played.  It's more pre-emptive than anything.

BBE needed to go away just because Jund is too good.  It's literally the only card in the deck they could ban without getting spalsh damage.  That doesn't mean the deck is going to go away or be unplayable.  The deck is still going to be fine.  They'll just have to play something else in the 4-drop slot that gives you value.  Huntmaster of the Fells comes to mind, and I have already seen a few Jund lists with it in addition to the BBE.

All-in-all, I would have preferred that they unban something to try to keep Jund in check.  Giving the format something that made control decks viable would have done the trick, but instead they went a different route.  I think the format is still going to be fine.  It's still a work in progress, but they're going in the right direction.
I think the reason for Song to be banned was that BBE was banned.  Without the large amount of Jund in the format, a multi-card combo deck would be pretty tough to keep under wraps without counterspells actually being played.  It's more pre-emptive than anything.

BBE needed to go away just because Jund is too good.  It's literally the only card in the deck they could ban without getting spalsh damage.  That doesn't mean the deck is going to go away or be unplayable.  The deck is still going to be fine.  They'll just have to play something else in the 4-drop slot that gives you value.  Huntmaster of the Fells comes to mind, and I have already seen a few Jund lists with it in addition to the BBE.

All-in-all, I would have preferred that they unban something to try to keep Jund in check.  Giving the format something that made control decks viable would have done the trick, but instead they went a different route.  I think the format is still going to be fine.  It's still a work in progress, but they're going in the right direction.


Huntsmaster fills the 2RG slot BBE left and "cascades" into a 2/2 and 2 life. No haste a -1/-0 might break the deal though.
Resident Piggles Zombie piggy is eatin' your sigs om nom nom (>*o*)>
MTG Card
Front: PigKnight, One Line Poster (3W) Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Vigilance When this creature dies, return him to play and transform him. (2/3) >(5/3)< Back: (Black)ZombiePiggles, Eater of Tomato Sauce Legendary Creature - Boar Knight Zombie Trample, Intimidate B: Regenerate this creature. When this creature is the target of a white spell, transform this creature. (5/3)

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/15.jpg)

BBE makes sense and is a big loss for Jund. I still think it's a really strong deck without being able to Cascade into Goyf, Bob, Pulse, and/or Lingering Souls.

As for Seething Song, I don't know about that one. It seems a bit suspect. Madadmiral's assessment of it being a preemptive ban makes sense, but I don't necessarily agree with it. Then again the deck I play (a modified version of pigknight's zombies list) has very little problem with storm so I don't care about them having Seething song.
Giving the format something that made control decks viable would have done the trick, but instead they went a different route.


But control decks are unfun!
Since Modern, IIRC, is allowed at FNM events now, I guess I can't blame Wizards for treating it like Standard instead of like (dare I say) a "serious" format, i.e. Legacy. But since the groundswell of popular demand for Modern came from people wanting a Legacy-style experience without buying all the original duels - not from people dissatisfied with the state of Extended, which was in any event treated as a serious format - I'm still disappointed.
Control decks are an important slice of the metagame clock; without them in a format, it's much more difficult to have a balanced metagame where multiple deck archetypes are playable.

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The ban on BBE is understandable, but still somewhat annoying, especially for those of us who have recently purchased them or other parts of a deck that, while they do not rely on BBE, still like them for added support. However, and as others have stated, we still have Huntsmaster, and while its not a 100% perfect replacement, it does offer 2 open blockers, 2 life, and makes your opponent need to burn it out, or play a spell they may not want to play in order for it to not transform. But if you do not like the Huntsmaster, for speed reasons, you could still play with Kird apes, Kitchen finks, or even Boggart Ram-Gangs. I don't think Jund will disappear, but will just be slightly slower than it once was.
I kinda feel like had they not banned so many good green cards, Jund wouldn't be as popular. Cards like Green Sun's Zenith were incentive to not play bloodbraid elf. I wonder how good Jund would be had they not banned so many cards before this. Will the next big deck have an important card banned as well?

I'm worried that since power is relative, the banning won't stop.

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/13.jpg)


Deathrite will now dominate even more as it's easily the most powerful card in modern(in relation to mana cost). The best Deathrite deck wins. I imagine they didn't want to ban a new card striahgt off the bat, so hit something else to shake things up.

BBE is very strong, although lately I've been winning Jund mirror due to the early curve of discard and grim lavamancer with deathrite and the odd goyf. It does stop those horrible BBE stomp moments though. Seems an odd choice, but considering they want to shake up the format, it makes sense.

Seething Song, they have to be careful, if they keep hitting combo decks, people will get annoyed. It does mean people can have better sideboards now, since you had to dedicate storm hate in it.


Lastly, Bitterblossom. Why wasn't this unbanned? It seems ridiculous to have this on the ban list. Legacy has shown that Lingering souls is just a better card. Yes, Blossom can enable faeries, but the faerie deck compared to the rest of the modern format is pretty fair, and may allow a more controlling deck to actually be viable. Abrupt Decay and Illness in the Ranks looked very much like plants for the unbanning of bitterblossom. Really surprised we didn't get the blossom back, but I imagine we will get it back in three months.
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-4 Seething song
+4 Goblin Electromancer

My pyromancer's ascension deck just adapted. 
YES!!!! YES!!! AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, YES!!! I TOLD YOU SO!!!! I TOLD YOU BBE WOULD BE BANNED BACK WHEN JUND FIRST BECAME POPULAR AND I WAS RIGHT!!!

But seriously, I'm pretty confident this is just a temp-ban. WotC made a mistake making Modern such a high-profile focus early on. It caused pros to just build the best thing they could without doing much testing, and the decks at big tournaments always trickle down to other places.
Once the format fleshes out more, I wouldn't be surprised to see BBE unbanned.

Also insane that there are now 2 mana rituals on the banned list. I'm not planning on changing my sideboard too much (I might swap Leyline for Blind Obedience, but prob not) though I think this means I can stop mainboarding Thalia.

And to the guy who said we need to unband GSZ: u dum. GSZ is stupid powerful. 

(at)MrEnglish22

 I think this means I can stop mainboarding Thalia. 



Hee!  And this is why this ban means pyro ascension might be even better!  Catch em unawares :D
As for Seething Song, I don't know about that one. It seems a bit suspect. Madadmiral's assessment of it being a preemptive ban makes sense, but I don't necessarily agree with it.



After thinking about it some more (it was midnight after all), I really find the reasons given for the Song ban very suspect.  If the actual goal was to make sure Storm wasn't a turn 3 deck, they should have banned Goblin Electromancer.  That guy was the reason why Storm was becoming faster.  By banning Song, they just killed the entire deck, as well as several other potential decks at the same time, like AiR or some kind of Blood Moon style deck (which was needed because of the greedy manabases in the format).  I just can't help but feel like they're forcing us all to play creature based decks all the time.  Storm was one of the only "good" spell-based decks left in the format.

All I know is I'm going to be packing a lot more removal in my Modern decks starting next week.

More thoughts on BBE:

I think they definitely needed to do something to keep Jund in check.  It's been a long time since I've seen a lack of Jund at the top tables late in big tournaments, and that's not indicitive of a healthy format.  I would have preferred they try a different tatic though.  The lack of a control is what really makes Jund so good, so I would have liked that they unban something to boost control a lot.  Things like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Bitterblossom, Preordain (which would have powered up combo too much) and Ancestral Vision would have been nice to try and play with.  However, it would have been worse if they unbanned something and have it completely dominate, forcing them to re-ban it.  I think they took the "safe" route by banning BBE.  They tried the other approach last time by unbanning Valakut, and that didn't really do anything at all.  I guess they figuredt here wasn't anything safe left to try, and just brought the axe out.
I agree that BBE was surgery and arguably neccesary.

Storm... If they'd just let permision be a thing they'd have been fine! Augh! Between cavern and hosing perm/control they now find themselves ending decks. Ugh.

BB, while I'm for it, is tricky. Not for power level, but because while it's good against combo it also feeds on the decks that eat combo. Still, it's a safe unban. It's knee-jerk atm. Hell, extended fae generally did without.
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I'm still reeling from Song's banning.  I think it just effectively killed my hope to port Dragon Stompy into Modern.

I'm also scratching my head as to why nothing was unbanned. 
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The problem is they want this to be the new eternal format. Fine, I'm ok with that, I understand Legacy can't be sustained long term. But you are hurting people investing in this format when things changed so frequently and without warning. I just finished buying/selling/trading to foil out my storm deck, and now what? I was investing in something (like I did with Legacy Goblins) that I thought I would get to play for the long term, and now what? We have a PTQ in my area in a couple weeks and we have been testing for weeks, and I even bought the deck on MtGO to test, and now all that is for nothing?? It just isn't good for a format they want to exist long term, and not die like extended.
 I think this means I can stop mainboarding Thalia. 



Hee!  And this is why this ban means pyro ascension might be even better!  Catch em unawares :D



Yo dawg, I've got this Abrubt Decay, just for you. Nah man, its fine, you can take it. Promise it'll be okay. Yeah, just go put that on your Ascension, and let it sink in.

(at)MrEnglish22

I agree that BBE was surgery and arguably neccesary. Storm... If they'd just let permision be a thing they'd have been fine! Augh! Between cavern and hosing perm/control they now find themselves ending decks. Ugh. BB, while I'm for it, is tricky. Not for power level, but because while it's good against combo it also feeds on the decks that eat combo. Still, it's a safe unban. It's knee-jerk atm. Hell, extended fae generally did without.



I won't be too surprised if they unban BBE once the format fleshes out some more. It was knee-jerk, I agree, but it also was needed to force people to brew more.


I'm still reeling from Song's banning.  I think it just effectively killed my hope to port Dragon Stompy into Modern.

I'm also scratching my head as to why nothing was unbanned. 



Its easier to anticipate the effects of a banning than it is an unbanning. Banning is safer for preventing a bad format.

The problem is they want this to be the new eternal format. Fine, I'm ok with that, I understand Legacy can't be sustained long term. But you are hurting people investing in this format when things changed so frequently and without warning. I just finished buying/selling/trading to foil out my storm deck, and now what? I was investing in something (like I did with Legacy Goblins) that I thought I would get to play for the long term, and now what? We have a PTQ in my area in a couple weeks and we have been testing for weeks, and I even bought the deck on MtGO to test, and now all that is for nothing?? It just isn't good for a format they want to exist long term, and not die like extended.



This format is still brand new in relation to Legacy, and it is completely different because there isn't FoW or anything. There will still be continued bannings and unbannings every set release, or at least every set release, for the next few blocks. Actling like some sort of a ban was a surprise was foolish for everyone who did.
Look at how long Legacy has been around, and look at how stuff still gets banned/unbanned in that format.
Sorry that the deck you foiled out isn't viable for Modern anymore, but you aren't the only one to get hit by the ban. Don't cry "woe is me" when they are trying to fix the format still.
Also, don't cry about losing value when you are the one foiling out your deck. Bleeding value right there more than anything.

(at)MrEnglish22

My thoughts? I'm pissed. Very, very pissed. I've been trading and buying to build my UR Storm deck. All I needed was the fetchlands and BAM out of left field the deck gets nerfed to the point where its probably not playable, let alone viable anymore. Goblin Electromancer would have been a WAY better choice to ban to kill the turn 3 wins, or at least tune them down a *lot*...or better yet, Pyromancer Ascension...or both.
I don't know why you're pissed about having spent time building Storm.  Without the fetchlands, the deck is dirt cheap.  Easily under $100.  There's like 5 cards that aren't bulk commons/uncommons in the deck...

They couldn't have banned Ascension because most Storm decks don't even use it.  And the ones that do just do a straight swap for Past in Flames and have no difference to the actual speed/functionality of the deck.
I don't know why you're pissed about having spent time building Storm.  Without the fetchlands, the deck is dirt cheap.  Easily under $100.  There's like 5 cards that aren't bulk commons/uncommons in the deck...

They couldn't have banned Ascension because most Storm decks don't even use it.  And the ones that do just do a straight swap for Past in Flames and have no difference to the actual speed/functionality of the deck.

I'm not upset about the money spent, really...more about the time I've spent putting it together (getting hard to find commons and uncommons since I don't like to buy online and spent about 3 years away from the game). It's just extremely frustrating when you take time to build a deck and WotC nerfs it into the unplayable, unnecessarily in my opinion.  I'm also in a spot where I now only have one modern deck to play (Affinity...though it's been doing well), I like at least having the option of playing another deck in a given format and not being locked in.  
Jman22, its not about the fact they banned things, like I said I understand BBE being banned, but not Seething Song. Storm was just an under performing deck. Some of the best (Finkel) played it at the last Pro Tour and it didn't even top 8. It hasn't won a big modern event, but they still invalidate a deck b/c some arbitruary rule of turn 3 wins. Other decks can win turn 3 if unopposed. If you want an eternal format, you have to give it time to breath and things to shift. Jund shifted to dominance since the last bannings, so they acted, ok fine, but Storm was the second most played at 11% on MTGO so ban seething song?? For one, its cheap to make, thats why its played alot online, and secondly, that does not represent paper magic. I just think it not only hurts Storm but All in Red that Flores talked about is now impossible, Dragonstorm is out, it affects many decks that haven't proven to be "too" good. I know you probably haven't played since the beginning, but for us older players that invest in many cards, and decks, its hard when WoTC messes with that. Think about it this way, what if Tarmogoyf got banned, you don't think people would be up in arms because they're huge investment just can't be played now? It's bad enough Jace got banned in basically everything but Legacy, so people bought those now have to play Legacy to play the card, but now they are PRE-banning cards to a format that don't understand yet. Don't make this a tournament format if you are still working the bugs out of it. People want to play and buy decks, but its harder when you can't be sure your deck will even be around in 3 months.
i agree with SIrGimpsalot, its not just the money, its the time invested. I have been playing this deck for awhile, changing and tweaking it and finally had it where I wanted it never thinking I wouldnt be able to play it at the PTQ I was preparing for. Who would have guessed they would ban something to hurt storm, a deck that is not top tier, no one could see that coming. But all that time and preparation are lost on a deck I can't play anymore.
Jund shifted to dominance since the last bannings



Jund didn't just rise to dominance since the last banning.  It's been the dominant deck since day 1 of the format.  It's been long overdue for some actual bannings.  Like I said, they've already tried the end-around method of unbanning something that would be good against it, but that didn't work out.


For one, its cheap to make, thats why its played alot online, and secondly, that does not represent paper magic. I just think it not only hurts Storm but All in Red that Flores talked about is now impossible, Dragonstorm is out, it affects many decks that haven't proven to be "too" good. I know you probably haven't played since the beginning, but for us older players that invest in many cards, and decks, its hard when WoTC messes with that. Think about it this way, what if Tarmogoyf got banned, you don't think people would be up in arms because they're huge investment just can't be played now? It's bad enough Jace got banned in basically everything but Legacy, so people bought those now have to play Legacy to play the card, but now they are PRE-banning cards to a format that don't understand yet. Don't make this a tournament format if you are still working the bugs out of it. People want to play and buy decks, but its harder when you can't be sure your deck will even be around in 3 months.



You make it sound like I haven't played the format long.  I have been playing the format almost as long as anyone else.  I waited a few months to see if the format would stick, then started playing it.  I own a lot of the major staples of the format (no Goyfs... yet), and have a lot of my Magic capital tied up in Modern.  Does it annoy me that the DCI keeps messing with the format?  Absolutely.  However, the format isn't "organic", it's been heavily pushed on the players.  It's a fine format, but it takes a lot of cultivation to be as good as it is, and it will take more to get it to a mature format like Legacy.

Also, don't make it sound like they're doing something with no details.  Jund was 35% of the Modern Pro Tour.  If that doesn't scream out for something to be done, I don't know what you're looking for as a warning sign that something is wrong.  When the only question that matters when discussing a deck is "how's it's Jund match up?", there's a problem.  They aren't pre-banning cards.  BBE is the only card they can target to weaken only Jund.  Seething Song would have been a huge problem with the decrease in Jund simply because there is a drastic lack of counterspells in the format.  These aren't guesses, they're facts.

I personally think that Modern is going to end up being a cyclical format.  They're going to let certain decks have their day in the sun, then change the banned list to cause a shift in the metagame.  It's going to be something they have to do to keep the format interesting and dynamic.  The lack of a larger card pool (mainly Wasteland and Force of Will) means that they have to carefully manage the ban list.  There aren't the automatic controls in the format like the other eternal formats.
You are arguing yourself. I already said BBE makes sense, and if you think people are not just going to put huntmaster in his place and still play the same deck you are sadly mistaken. Jund isn't leaving, and deck with discard/deathrite shaman are not either, so how are this seething song decks going to take over? How does BBE leaving make seething song decks ban worthy? I don't think you quite understand my comments, since I haven't once tried to say Jund didn't need something banned. What I said was PRE-banning is a dangerous and "unfun" place to be when it comes to a "eternal" format. Let seething song decks prove they are TOO powerful, the way Jund did, if you really think that is going to happen because as of right now none of them are.
Funny, I think I was the one who said they're just going to play Huntmaster in the four drop slot...  Might have been in the thread in General though...

It's not a "pre-banning" because the deck is known, powerful and very common.  They know Storm is a problem because there are no counterspells in the format.  Storm is currently 11-12% of the metagame (online at least).  If Jund loses anywhere near 10% of the metagame because of the bannings, a large amount of people are going to pick up Storm.  In which case the BBE banning would just be replacing Jund with Storm as the dominant deck.  It's not so much of a power level banning, it's a diversity banning.  You have two deck that easily account for 45%+ of the metagame.  It makes sense to target both of them to increase diversity in the format.

I argued that they provided the wrong reasons behind the ban.  They said it was because the deck is too fast, in which case they should have banned Goblin Electromancer.  What they should have said was that the deck got to be too much of the metagame, or that they're limiting the "unfun" decks.  Because playing against Storm is a miserable experience...
why not begin a restricted list where you can only have like 2 of a certain card
why not begin a restricted list where you can only have like 2 of a certain card


Because thats a nightmare to keep up with and enforce, and would make deck checks nearly manditory for everybody.
 


Jman22, its not about the fact they banned things, like I said I understand BBE being banned, but not Seething Song. Storm was just an under performing deck. Some of the best (Finkel) played it at the last Pro Tour and it didn't even top 8. It hasn't won a big modern event, but they still invalidate a deck b/c some arbitruary rule of turn 3 wins. Other decks can win turn 3 if unopposed. If you want an eternal format, you have to give it time to breath and things to shift. Jund shifted to dominance since the last bannings, so they acted, ok fine, but Storm was the second most played at 11% on MTGO so ban seething song?? For one, its cheap to make, thats why its played alot online, and secondly, that does not represent paper magic. I just think it not only hurts Storm but All in Red that Flores talked about is now impossible, Dragonstorm is out, it affects many decks that haven't proven to be "too" good. I know you probably haven't played since the beginning, but for us older players that invest in many cards, and decks, its hard when WoTC messes with that. Think about it this way, what if Tarmogoyf got banned, you don't think people would be up in arms because they're huge investment just can't be played now? It's bad enough Jace got banned in basically everything but Legacy, so people bought those now have to play Legacy to play the card, but now they are PRE-banning cards to a format that don't understand yet. Don't make this a tournament format if you are still working the bugs out of it. People want to play and buy decks, but its harder when you can't be sure your deck will even be around in 3 months.


 
Storm was the top combo deck. How is that underpreforming?
Just because one of the top 3 best players of all time doesn't beat an entire field that has a good matchup against the deck he's playing doesn't top 8? Crappy justification.
The bannings to weaken Jund and Storm are the things that will make this format breathe. You realize that not since the last major tournament for Modern there hasn't been any deck changes? And the major changes that happened was that Jund splashed a colour?
The All in Red deck Flores built was bad anyway, like 90% of the decks he makes nowadays. Dragonstorm is never going to be a deck while Grapeshot is legal in an eternal format.
"I know you probably haven't played since the beginning." Of what? Magic? I'm willing to bet I've played about as long as you, if not longer. Modern? Turns out, I had a deck for Modern the second week the format got announced. Don't try to act like you're some big **** because you think you've been playing a format that's only been around for what, two years? since it came out.
You're seriously going to compare the investment to build a deck that's 80% 1 dollar commons to a playset of 100 dollar cards? LOL K
"Its bad enough Jace got banned in everything but Legacy" actually, no it isn't. The card is stupid good and a mistake. If you want to play him, go play Legacy, like the rest of us. Though I imagine if you're bitching about your investment in storm and the fact you chose to build goblins, you aren't actually willing to invest in the format to play it. If you think that Jace belongs off the Modern banned list, you are a moron. There is no mincing of words there, because its a fact.
Frankly, the only cards that should even be considered to come off the ban list right now are Dread Return, Grave Troll, Wild Nacatl, and MAYBE Sword of the Meek. Hell, I'm willing to bet they'll try taking Mental Misstep off the banned list before they try Jace.

Yeah, WotC made a mistake when they decided to make the Player's Championship and the PT focus so heavily on Modern. But they thought it would be a good way to springboard people into the format. It worked, but it also had some pretty nasty downsides. Nobody denies that it was a mistake overall.

You know what I hate the most about this banning change? That they didn't just ban GRAPESHOT, brain freeze, and Tendrils. 

(at)MrEnglish22



You know what I hate the most about this banning change? That they didn't just ban GRAPESHOT, brain freeze, and Tendrils. 


you do know brain freeze and tendrils are from scourge and not even a part of the modern card pool, right.


You know what I hate the most about this banning change? That they didn't just ban GRAPESHOT, brain freeze, and Tendrils. 


you do know brain freeze and tendrils are from scourge and not even a part of the modern card pool, right.



They should still announce them as banned, if only for appearances. Set an obvious precedent they won't print anymore cheap/easily cast storm spells ever again.

(at)MrEnglish22

They should still announce them as banned, if only for appearances. Set an obvious precedent they won't print anymore cheap/easily cast storm spells ever again.

MaRo is quite clear on this every time someone begs him to make more Storm cards.  There will never be more Storm (or Storm-like) cards in the game of Magic so long as he's in charge.  R&D is tired of getting burned by printing them and having them be broken. 

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Hahahaha I love the internet. Little kids and 20 somethings screaming and arguing to feel big. Listen, I am not going argue with you, I'm sorry someone played storm and destroyed you terribly and now you have some vendetta. Have fun playing some modern!

Deathrite will now dominate even more as it's easily the most powerful card in modern(in relation to mana cost). The best Deathrite deck wins. I imagine they didn't want to ban a new card striahgt off the bat, so hit something else to shake things up.



...and in the mirror match, the player to win the "Shaman war" tends to win. But they may yet ban DRS in the future.

Seething Song, they have to be careful, if they keep hitting combo decks, people will get annoyed. It does mean people can have better sideboards now, since you had to dedicate storm hate in it.



They are breeding a generation of players who don't want to play against combo. The people who don't buy into that are leaving Modern for Legacy. Problem solved.


In Legacy, Blue is the best color. Let's punish blue, in Modern. And they listened!
The problem isn't really solved though. Legacy can not exist forever, it has a max capacity. If magic continues and grows, in 10 more years, there just won't exist enough copies of the cards for everyone to play. The reserved list puts a shelf life on Legacy, and thats why I think Modern was created. So, just telling people to go play legacy won't really solve the problem long term.
Legacy can not exist forever, it has a max capacity. If magic continues and grows, in 10 more years, there just won't exist enough copies of the cards for everyone to play. The reserved list puts a shelf life on Legacy, and thats why I think Modern was created. So, just telling people to go play legacy won't really solve the problem long term.



A "max capacity" doesn't mean Legacy can't continue to exist, does it? It just means that in order for someone to buy a dual land, someone else has to sell it (the poor bastard) to SCG or on eBay. Of course, no one wants to sell duals at a loss, and it follows that prices can only go up. But Magic in general is becoming more and more expensive, what with Standard decks costing $500+, which is much more than my first competitive Legacy deck cost. At the same time, it seems that the playerbase is growing older, perhaps because you need a job to be able to play Magic at all.

Modern wasn't created because Legacy staples are/were suffering from availability problems. It was created because WotC, in their infinite wisdom, had killed off Old Extended and replaced it with Double Standard, which was quite simply unattractive and unpopular. That left a void that had to be filled.

In the end, they sort of went back to the idea of Old Extended, but with a permanent cutoff at Mirrodin/8E, and they fixed a few problems of Old Extended, while at the same time creating new ones. Legacy had little to do with all of this. They are not trying to make Modern into a variant of Legacy that they can support with reprints. They are shaping Modern to fit their own vision, which appeals to very different people than Legacy players. The talk of having an format with no card rotation that they can support with reprints just means that they want Modern to sell packs ($7 packs to be specific). It's not some kind of benevolent gift to people who would want to play in an Eternal format but can't afford to.

Modern does have some things going for it, just like every other format, but it is not competing for players with Legacy. For a Legacy player, the Modern banned list is absurd. For Modern players, it seems, Legacy is a broken format. So that's why I'm saying that people who don't like Modern in its current shape should get into Legacy. Because Modern will never be what they want it to be.


In Legacy, Blue is the best color. Let's punish blue, in Modern. And they listened!
Wizards clearly wants a bunch of aggro decks in top 8s at all formats.  They are slowly destroying standard and that destruction is carrying over to modern.  Wizards card designers and whatever group of ****s decides the ban list need to all be fired.  STOP controlling what people can and cannot do with Magic.  STOP.  STOP printing completely overpowered creatues.  STOP getting so pissed off when players find a combo that you didnt and then banning that combo. 

I don't play Storm or Jund.  I have played both here and there in testing, but I dont play those decks because they aren't my style.  BUT, those decks ARE someone else style.  They enjoy playing the game of magic that way.  Who the **** are you guys in your little nerd laboratory that think you can dictate the way people play magic?  Dont want Jund to exist?  Don't make asinine cards like Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay.  Storm is annoying as all hell, but people think the same thing of the offside trap in hockey, or conservative football.  But, guess what... those conflicting ideologies are what make things great.  The fact that people bring different types of decks to a format is what makes a format good. 

IMO the modern format was best off at Pro Tour Philadelphia.  The fools at wizards just destroyed the format for some reason.  Thanks for nothing.  Im done with competitve magic until you stop ****ing with modern.  Standard is a total lost cause, but modern at least had some creativity in it and required some skilled play, now, like standard, its just going to be a haymaker fest where any retard can just fart cards onto the table.

Its funny because two decks have now won major wizards sanctioned tournaments with Snapcaster, Geist, Resto Angel creature packages, but no one cares?!  yhmmmmmm

  STOP INTERFERING WITH ETERNAL FORMATS.     
They always ban in eternal formats for degeneracy, man. That's the norm. You don't get to make up 1/3 of the field and potentially *all* of the t8 with being knock off your perch. Do you think that people cried for Necropotence?.. and that restriction had some splash hate to it!
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.