Pong Krell's lightsaber style

How would you emulate that via SAGA rules?



Also, what if you had a human (or Zabrak) weild 2 doublebladed lightsabers like Krell, except unlike krell the human weilds them with one hand each (kinda like Exar Kun weilding a single dbl blader)



Lastly, would any of the lightsaber form talents be applicable to such an exotic and unique style? Mayyybe Juyo, and possibly Soresu...but I cannot see any of the other talents being applicable from a common sense pov.

From watching Pong Krell, most likely he has Whirlwind Attack.  Rising Whirlwind and Sarlacc Sweep are both lightsaber form powers and would be applicable.  Rapid Strike and Wicked Strike feats allow you to hit two targets with a single attack.

The Wookiee Grip feat from Unknown Regions allows one to use a two-handed weapon in one hand with a -2 penalty on attack rolls.

Jar'Kai banks off using two lightsabers, even if they are larger than normal.

Let me focus for a moment on your comment 'exotic and unique style'.  Why limit yourself to the lightsaber form talents.  Saga has a much bigger focus on concept, so look at other prestige classes that might fit.  Duelist, for example, has two chains of talents that focus on making full attacks and then being able to dart around the field.
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I would say he was had all three DWM feats, Double and Triple Attack, and the Dual Weapon Flourish talents and a few multiattack proficiency (lightsabre) talents as well. 

Characters like him really don't make sense in Saga, because it really would be no different mechanically if he was just using two standard lightsabres.
192523575 wrote:
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Characters like him really don't make sense in Saga, because it really would be no different mechanically if he was just using two standard lightsabres.




How so? With two double bladed sabers he should get two extra attacks.



That's pretty big.

Characters like him really don't make sense in Saga, because it really would be no different mechanically if he was just using two standard lightsabres.



How so? With two double bladed sabers he should get two extra attacks.


That's pretty big.



Double bladed lightsabers do not grant extra attacks.  Using a double bladed lightsaber as a double weapon as part of TWF will grant a single extra attack but that is a result of the combat form used and has nothing to do with the weapon.

If you had a four "armed" droid weilding four double lightsabers it would still defalt to one attack in SWSE.  If it utilizes TWF it gains an additional attack (while penalizing all attacks) and it could also take double and triple attack with each give one additional attack for a total of FOUR possible attacks.  It most certainly would not get the eight attacks you seem to think it could get and if it could the cost in character resource would be incredible.
 
Double bladed lightsabers do not grant extra attacks.  Using a double bladed lightsaber as a double weapon as part of TWF will grant a single extra attack but that is a result of the combat form used and has nothing to do with the weapon.

If you had a four "armed" droid wielding four double lightsabers it would still default to one attack in SWSE.  If it utilizes TWF it gains an additional attack (while penalizing all attacks) and it could also take double and triple attack with each give one additional attack for a total of FOUR possible attacks.  It most certainly would not get the eight attacks you seem to think it could get and if it could the cost in character resource would be incredible.

This is absolutely correct!

I don't think there is a reliable way to get 8 attacks on a full attack in SAGA. In RCR, sure then it could be done, but SAGA actually tried to reduce the normal amount of attacks to ONE for most characters. The reason for this being that it would speed up combat to keep the number of attacks down.

That being said, there are some builds that abuse the talent Fortune's Favor, combined with a high critical range, and the talents from the Duelist PrC to let you make full attacks as standard actions. This build can be a real meat grinder if built and used right, but it will be mostly a one trick pony that can't do much else then dominate in close combat. More importantly it will be a 10+ level character before it works properly, generating more and more attacks... Before that the character may not be that strong.  

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I have considered introducing a feat that would allow a character to utilize double/triple attack with the "off-hand" weapon when TWF.  Of course ALL of the penalties stack and I will also add that "when using this feat critical hits do NOT additional damage"  to avoid the character who throws out six attacks with "no chance" of hitting and then getting double damage when they do.
 
Characters like him really don't make sense in Saga, because it really would be no different mechanically if he was just using two standard lightsabres.


True. But you have to admit a 4-armed dude wielding 2 double-bladed lightsabers looks really cool...


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Characters like him really don't make sense in Saga, because it really would be no different mechanically if he was just using two standard lightsabres.


True. But you have to admit a 4-armed dude wielding 2 double-bladed lightsabers looks really cool...





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I have considered introducing a feat that would allow a character to utilize double/triple attack with the "off-hand" weapon when TWF.  Of course ALL of the penalties stack and I will also add that "when using this feat critical hits do NOT additional damage"  to avoid the character who throws out six attacks with "no chance" of hitting and then getting double damage when they do.
 


If they take Triple Crit then, would they just do normal double damage or still no extra damage?  And what about things like that once crystal which add an extra die on a critical?  Would they still get that?
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
I think that what StevenO is suggesting is that any house-rule that let you make that many attacks, should come at the same time as a rule that limit critical hits. So that at least an attack should be able to hit the target for it to be able to critically hit someone...

EDIT: Edited for clarity.

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I have considered introducing a feat that would allow a character to utilize double/triple attack with the "off-hand" weapon when TWF.  Of course ALL of the penalties stack and I will also add that "when using this feat critical hits do NOT additional damage"  to avoid the character who throws out six attacks with "no chance" of hitting and then getting double damage when they do.
 


If they take Triple Crit then, would they just do normal double damage or still no extra damage?  And what about things like that once crystal which add an extra die on a critical?  Would they still get that?

Merc has my general philosphy on that.  While "No additional damage" would mean just that the opition to have it would the require the "confirmation roll" from previous editions.

My proposed feat would allow a character to utilize triple attack in each hand for up to six attacks.  Now the problem with so many attacks is you will see a -10 penalty from EACH use of triple attack plus the two-weapon fighting penalties. While there are ways of reducing the penalty you're still looking at -20 or so on all attacks but you are making a lot of them.  I'll admit that with that kind of penalty you're basically missing except for rolling that 20 but at the same time when you're only hitting on a 20 you can just throw out everything else and hope for that critical hit.  A hypothetical character with a +20 BAB could just dump all that BAB into Power Attack (+20 and maybe even +40 on a hit) and also use things like Rapid Strike which give a damage bonus for an attack penalty which you basically no longer care about.  I don't want to turn what may already be a "race for a critical" into something more where a character is getting half again as many chances at doing that.

While I may create a feat that will allow you to use Double/Triple with your secondary weapon the ONLY reason I'm doing it is to appease people who think they need to make all kinds of attacks.  In terms of game mechanics I already think making three attacks is often less then ideal against opponents at your level or higher and while this feat could give even more desparate attacks I want to show how poor an idea it could be.

I will mention that if a character wants to make 'multiple' attacks with weapons from both hands I do allow many things to be flavored that way assuming matched weapons.  If you have dual/triple for four attacks I'll most likely let you take two with each weapon.  I also allow a character to use Rapid Shot/Strike and say they attacked with both weapons in one strike.  Except for the possible ammo differencial which should be negligable these things use the standard rules but are just described a bit differently.
 
ah gotcha ;)
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
The short answer:
Without LOTS of investment making four attacks often requires natural 20's to hit.  If you need a 20 to hit you might as well maximize the damage output when you do land it because if you need a 20 or 40 roll to hit it doesn't matter.  I don't want to simply give a character two more chances at that. 
Yeah I understood what you meant the first time.  I was just curious, because if I was a player, and I took the Triple Crit feat and my GM created a houserule for a bunch of attacks, I would feel a little cheated if my crit didn't do at least a little EXTRA damage, considering I spent a feat for it.
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
That's why I'd state that all up front.  If there are no surprises then no one should be upset.  If you've got Triple Crit and are already using triple attack then the reason for my exception should be pretty obvious.  I know I've done some builds that can make four attacks and at a certain point you just throw caution to the wind and go for maximum damage with a critical hit.

I'm sure somebody could or has run the number but if you need almost need a 20 to hit without any damage bonus for attack penalty things then it may be more effective to "go for broke" and give up a coupld of hits for a MUCH bigger hit when you get that free critical hit.
 
I was just curious, because if I was a player, and I took the Triple Crit feat and my GM created a houserule for a bunch of attacks, I would feel a little cheated if my crit didn't do at least a little EXTRA damage, considering I spent a feat for it.

Sure, any player would feel cheated then. Everyone want their character options to pay off. IF some options are turned useless by a house-rule, the GM should work with the player and let him replace those options. This is WHY a house-rule should be implemented between sessions. That way everybody knows in advance what goes, so none should ever have to feel sheeted by a sudden change in the rules.

However if you need to change something "in-game", just tell the players HOW and WHY this rule has changed. After the game, or in a break the GM (or players) can take it up for a discussion. But in general, it is better to just let it play out as the rules are set for now, and change things after the session ends.

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