Why shocklands?

17 posts / 0 new
Last post
Okay, so my friend and I are talking and we are trying to figure out why the shocklands are better than the dual lands printed in M13? Is it because they can be fetched by cards like Farseek? Is it just because they have the land type on them?
they can be found by Farseek and other cards
they come into play untapped whenever you need them to
they have land types, which can matter for cards like Mutilate or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
proud member of the 2011 community team
And paying life isn't that important. You lose the game in only four ways:

1) As a state-based action when you have 0 or less life. Note that few players have exactly 0 life. Also note that unlike 2, there's no card that says "If an opponent has less than 20 life, he or she loses 1 life."
2) As a state-based action when you have 10 or more poison counters. Note that having even one poison counter can kill you with time. (And all manner of Giant Growth-type effects when a creature with infect isn't blocked.)
3) As a triggered ability when you are forced to draw a card (either from the draw step or from an effect in the game) but your library is empty.
4) As the result of a particular spell or ability. Note that some spells or abilities give their controllers ways to lose the game, and some remove ways to lose the game from one or both players.

So, relevant to this, even if 1 is your opponent's endgame (and it usually is), the game doesn't care until you have a life total less than or equal to 0. (Obviously some cards care about life totals, but my point remains.)
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I'd say it's about fifty-fifty between two reasons. First, you have control over whether they start out tapped or not. If you draw a hand of all M10 lands, you're going to have a very slow start. It you draw a hand of all shocklands, you may take a bunch of damage but you'll be able to cast your spells on time -- or, if you'd rather have the slow start to preserve your life total, you can choose to do that. Second, they have basic land types. This is the reason that they're the multilands of choice in Modern (where Zendikar's fetchlands are legal and the combination of the two types of lands basically gives you perfect colour fixing) but it's also relevant in Standard with cards like, as you said, Farseek and, for that matter, the M10 lands (which play quite nicely together with shocklands).

Most decks in Standard play a mix of the two, anyway. Shocks are better, but they're really not that much better when you don't have fetchlands.
blah blah metal lyrics
Losing the game due to drawing from an empty library is also an SBA, not a triggered ability. Also, your point about proliferate is silly. It's not one poison counter plus time. It's one poison counter plus a bunch of spells/abilities. There are countless more spells/abilities that will decrease your life total, and most of them work even from a blank slate.
Losing the game due to drawing from an empty library is also an SBA, not a triggered ability. Also, your point about proliferate is silly. It's not one poison counter plus time. It's one poison counter plus a bunch of spells/abilities. There are countless more spells/abilities that will decrease your life total, and most of them work even from a blank slate.


bay

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

And paying life isn't that important. You lose the game in only four ways:

1) As a state-based action when you have 0 or less life. Note that few players have exactly 0 life. Also note that unlike 2, there's no card that says "If an opponent has less than 20 life, he or she loses 1 life."
2) As a state-based action when you have 10 or more poison counters. Note that having even one poison counter can kill you with time. (And all manner of Giant Growth-type effects when a creature with infect isn't blocked.)
3) As a triggered ability when you are forced to draw a card (either from the draw step or from an effect in the game) but your library is empty.
4) As the result of a particular spell or ability. Note that some spells or abilities give their controllers ways to lose the game, and some remove ways to lose the game from one or both players.

So, relevant to this, even if 1 is your opponent's endgame (and it usually is), the game doesn't care until you have a life total less than or equal to 0. (Obviously some cards care about life totals, but my point remains.)


I am confused by this post.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
And paying life isn't that important. You lose the game in only four ways:

1) As a state-based action when you have 0 or less life. Note that few players have exactly 0 life. Also note that unlike 2, there's no card that says "If an opponent has less than 20 life, he or she loses 1 life."
2) As a state-based action when you have 10 or more poison counters. Note that having even one poison counter can kill you with time. (And all manner of Giant Growth-type effects when a creature with infect isn't blocked.)
3) As a triggered ability when you are forced to draw a card (either from the draw step or from an effect in the game) but your library is empty.
4) As the result of a particular spell or ability. Note that some spells or abilities give their controllers ways to lose the game, and some remove ways to lose the game from one or both players.

So, relevant to this, even if 1 is your opponent's endgame (and it usually is), the game doesn't care until you have a life total less than or equal to 0. (Obviously some cards care about life totals, but my point remains.)


I am confused by this post.


he's basically saying "only your last life point matters", which is fairly common knowledge, but he's saying it in a really roundabout way.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

They are good mostly because they can be fetched. It also means we can be super greedy with our mana in standard right now which everybody likes. 
they can be found by Farseek and other cards
they come into play untapped whenever you need them to
they have land types, which can matter for cards like Mutilate or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle


Enigma sums it up pretty succinctly here. They're arguably the second best lands behind the original duals, which are just stupid powerful.

However, plenty of the other duals/multicolor lands do match up quite nicely. For example, the filter land cycle never comes in tapped, and if you have a half decent mana base alongside it not only gives you the mana you need, but can go from something like turn 1 mountain + Lightning Bolt, into turn 2 Cascade Bluffs and Counterspell.
I'm all about super-control in MTG. If you're able to stop my shenanigans, then there aren't enough shenanigans. Lv 1 Judge Current Decklists Sweeping Beauty (Casual) A Vision of Clones (Casual) Coming soon... more decks! :-O
It's all about fetchlands bringing you the "perfect" land, thinning your deck at the same time and like it was said before, it doesnt matter if you're at 1 life, as long as your opponent is at 0. Also in more competitive formats, usually the swings are so big and fast that having 17 or 20 lifes (from using arid mesa into a sacred foundry) will not make a difference, while having that extra spell played will make quite a difference.
I love trolls Dont hate me because I'm blunt and you cannot handle it
they can be found by Farseek and other cards
they come into play untapped whenever you need them to
they have land types, which can matter for cards like Mutilate or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle



Thanks for all the replies. This here is what I told my friend. Now, he doesn't think that they are worth it because of the two life, but he doesn't play competitevly, for the record neither do I but I follow what's going on in standard. 
I think of it like this: Is saving myself from manascrew, and thus essentially giving myself an extra turn, worth 2 life?

Absolutely. 

If you're playing Standard and an extra turn isn't worth 2 life, your deck isn't aggressive enough.
I am confused by this post.


he's basically saying "only your last life point matters", which is fairly common knowledge, but he's saying it in a really roundabout way.

 



Wow, the rich cheerleader in every insipid teen movie ever (and they're all insipid) got it right. Life totals, poison counters, drawing a card when you can't, and special cards are the only ways you can lose the game. (You can win the game by special cards or by being the only player who hasn't lost the game.)

To put it in perspective, you lose when you're forced to draw a card, either by the rules or by a spell, but you can't, but we still run Elvish Visionary and Wall of Omens explicitly for the extra cards. Why? Because the card advantage is more important than the risk of decking yourself. Dredge isn't even considered a "cost" by dredge players for this exact reason.

But what about life loss? Follows the same rule. What if I told you of a card that made you pay life in order to use it, and you couldn't draw any cards while it was on the battlefield, and it neutered one of its color's main strengths? It won some of the first Pro Tours. More recently, some Phyrexian mana cards, like Porcelain Legionnaire, found their way into Tempered Steel variants.

What does this mean? The game doesn't really care about your life total until either it's 0 or it passes certain thresholds on certain cards.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
In the case of stuff like shocklands, I like to think of it as using your life as a resource. 

University of Charleston School of Pharmacy, Class of 2016

My Peasant Cube: A Cube for the Commoners

The whole "Lifeloss and Lifegain is irrelevant" mindset really needs to die.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I can't say extort won the game from the 7/7 demon that flew over my creatures.

I guess super competative magic is in a race to kill its opponent before it kills you

I really don't know