Edge of the Empire vs Saga Edition

So...haven't seen a thread about Edge of the Empire here.



Has anyone read and played the Beta? How does it compare to Saga edition?



My opinion ths far, and I have only skimmed the EoTE Beta is that Saga Core Rulebook is superior AND will stay superior in terms of rules even after all 3 core rulebooks for EoTE are released. The reason for that is diversity of character choice. Saga has more feats and talents. The way EoTE is set out, it just cannot compare, in my opinion (note I have yet to carefully read the rules, much less play)



Also, the decision to leave Force Users this book 3 to be released in 2015 is a greedy and stupid choice, IMO. Jedi and Sith are iconic to SW. Without them, you might as well have the license for Firefly/Serenity or Babylon 5. Would dedicating a few pages of rules to them be too much work? Ofcourse not. They just wanted high sales figures for their books in 2015, when normally sales would be petering out so they kept them for there. It worked for them with WH40K...but I hope it doesn't work for them here and they are forced to release Force rules early due to poor sales (sorry, but I am angry they did this cheap move)


There are a few pathetic rules for playing a Force Sensitive, but they are extremely barebones. 


I still think WEG d6 is superior to both systems, but that's just my opinion.
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
From what I've read, I have zero interest in the new game.
Children believe what we tell them, they have complete faith in us. I ask of you a little of this childlike simplicity, and to bring us luck, let me speak four truly magic words: "A long time ago...." (Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast) Winner of You Build the Character #12, YbtC #22, YbtC #24, YbtC #28 and YbtC #35 Winner of You Make the... Contest #8
I mirror FTJ's sentiment.

It reminds me of what another company did with Lord of the Rings. I don't need game creators to give me a rule system based on an era. Give me the rules on how each part of a genre works and my players and I will determine when and where we play. 
My group no longer plays saga any more due to how unbalanced it became... so I was thinking I'd try to homebrew some stuffs and came upon this link... So I just went on a Googling rampage to find out more about this Edge of the Galaxy thing... and well... looking at the reviews and such from multiple sites, I can honestly say I don't think I'll be interested in it...

I kind of in a way would almost like to see something more of a full 4e version of star wars...  if at all possible.  I kind of like the idear of the 3 tiers.  Especially for instance for Jedis.  You start off as a padawan, become a jedi knight, then a master.  I may "attempt" to do something like that.  The biggest problem I have though is creating a bestiary for characters to fight.  Doing all that from scratch would be irritating... haha.

But another reason why I think it would be swell to see something of a 4e version is because I think some of the more super-iconic characters, like Yoda and the Emperor, should be beyond what other characters could achieve normally... meaning, as in 4E, deities can get up to like level 36 I believe, while as players cap at 30.   I think that in this example, create the system where the players cap at 30, and take on the Emperor or an Emperor Clone or whatever and he is level 36.  For a truly epic fight...

I'm just babbling at this point.... hahaha.  anywho, the edge of the empire reviews make me not want to play it.  Especially when the reviewers stated there isn't much info on The Force.  It was beta versions they were using, but still, that's kind of a necessity to have stuffs on The Force and Jedi.  at least in my unprofessional opinion.  :-) 
I mirror FTJ's sentiment.

It reminds me of what another company did with Lord of the Rings. I don't need game creators to give me a rule system based on an era. Give me the rules on how each part of a genre works and my players and I will determine when and where we play. 

amen to that.  I wholeheartedly agree. 
My group no longer plays saga any more due to how unbalanced it became... so I was thinking I'd try to homebrew some stuffs and came upon this link... So I just went on a Googling rampage to find out more about this Edge of the Galaxy thing... and well... looking at the reviews and such from multiple sites, I can honestly say I don't think I'll be interested in it...




Could you explain why you find it unbalanced? Using just the core rulebook Saga is quite balanced in my opinion, with regards to the movies. Sure Force Users have an advantage, especially Dark Siders with powers like Lightning, but that's how it should be. This is not D&D, this is SW. Jedi should be superior to your average Trooper.

Sorry, but saying "My group no longer plays Saga any more due to how unbalanced it became" just reeks of troll. Saga is actually very balanced, save defenses versus skill checks and a few other areas. As for a "4e" version...Saga and 4e are actually very similar. 4e is more oriented to leaving big swathes of the rules mostly unclear, and player choices are much, much, much, much more limited than in Saga. As for 3 tiers, Saga already has three level tiers of a sort-1-7, 7-12, 12+...there's a reason levels don't go up to 30. You get into the ridiculous things that Epic tier PCs can do (which can ruin encounters pretty easily), which is definitely not what Star Wars is about. Yes, the Force is powerful, but the power is completely concentrated in godlike mages and paladins. Sure, a Sith Lord like Palpatine with **** you up pretty bad, but he's not unkillable or able to move planets. Also, if you want to make Yoda etc more powerful, it's not hard. Just give him ridiculous stats and gear.

Back on topic...EotE dosen't appeal to me. The whole "we release 3 core books slowly" is a pretty obvious money-grub. Sure, 4e has three core books, but they are very, very distinct books. The system dosen't look very interesting, either. When a game system tells you what kind of campaign to run (in an already established fictional universe), I'll pass.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I haven't been anywhere to see a copy of EotE and unless someone were to send me a copy I have little interest in pursuing it at this time.  From what I've read about it focusing on the originial trilogy era and also generally leaving Force Users out of it isn't really something I'm all that interested in.  I also understand that it uses specialized equipment (dice) and I'd rather stick to a game that can be done with Pen, paper, and generic "roleplaying" dice without needing a conversion chart.

While I haven't seen EotE my "ranking" of the SWRPG are:  SAGA, 2ed WEG , RCR.

The only "unbalanced" thing about SAGA that really stands out in the skill check vs. defense score issue that is already been mentioned although there is a relatively "simple" fix to that.  As Corran also mentions SAGA already has "tiers" although they aren't called as such.  The real truth is that PCs over 15th-level should be extremely rare which would make Yoda and Palapatine's power a lot more "powerful" in comparison.  I think the desire to prebuild characters all the way out to 20th-level is a major problem as it sets up unreasonable expectations that you will get to those final levels; it is much more reasonable to build characters up to around 12th-level and then see where things go from there.
 
"Nobody expects imperial Inquisition" "What doesn't destroys me, makes me stranger"
Yes. Smile


Nope.
In any case, I won't even bother looking at the book until the release the Jedi/Force User rules.
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
The guy on that meme is creeping me out. He looks like a fatbeard Bill Gates. Cocking an M1911.

"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
The guy on that meme is creeping me out. He looks like a fatbeard Bill Gates. Cocking an M1911.



I believe it's from the movie the Big Lebowski.  Hysterical movie, if you have Netflix it's worth a watch.
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
The guy on that meme is creeping me out. He looks like a fatbeard Bill Gates. Cocking an M1911.



I believe it's from the movie the Big Lebowski.  Hysterical movie, if you have Netflix it's worth a watch.



I'll check it out!
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Honestly, I am excited about EotE, it looks like my style of game.  From what I've read, it is very focused on role-playing and not as much on the tactical combat aspects, which is precisely what I have found myself to prefer.  Clearly I cannot say that I will definitely love it when it comes out, but I am more than willing to give it a chance.

As to not have Force rules from launch, and forgive me if I am mistaken here, but that is not the impression that I was getting from the reviews I read.  What it looks like is that this game is going to be focused on running rough and tumble campaigns on the fringe of society, and so the Force is not focused on as much, but that it will still be there as an option.  To me, it sounds a lot like "play Star Wars as characters like Han, Chewbacca, and Lando.", which I think is perfectly fine.  I can hardly call that a cash grab or greedy.  The core book is going to be 448-pages of material, with normal pages.  That is probably twice the data that SAGA has in its core book.  If they ran out of space for more rules, I cannot blame them.

Look, I understand that a lot of people really enjoy the Jedi and Sith and all that, but if you really want to bring Star Wars back to its roots, then that is mostly going to fall by the wayside.  The original trilogy is about rebels and rogues fighting an evil empire, not Jedi and Sith swinging lightsabers around.  It is a different perspective on Star Wars, yes, but it is a valid one and one which I feel can be very interesting to explore.    

...you might as well have the license for Firefly/Serenity or Babylon 5.

I am so game for that.  The only Firefly RPG I have seen kind of sucks.

There are a few pathetic rules for playing a Force Sensitive, but they are extremely barebones.

Firstly, give them a chance to actually put the book out before saying it has "pathetic few rules for playing a Force Sensitive".  This is a 448-page book.  The SAGA chapter on the Force is 16 small pages (not counting the two "wasted" splash pages). They could have the same amount of content for Force users and it only eat up ~3% of their book.  So let's give them a chance here.  
 

Sorry, but saying "My group no longer plays Saga any more due to how unbalanced it became" just reeks of troll. Saga is actually very balanced, save defenses versus skill checks and a few other areas. 

I do not feel like arguing this, but no, you, my friend, are the trolling one here.  SAGA is so far off balance it is almost a joke.

Back on topic...EotE dosen't appeal to me. The whole "we release 3 core books slowly" is a pretty obvious money-grub.

As I understand it, and I could possibly be wrong, but they is only one core rulebook set to release this year.  The other ones are more like campaign guides or other type of specialty book.  Either like the Legacy Era CG or like Scum and Villainy.  Not too different from how SAGA worked.
"And the TL;DR award goes to Raul Torin!" - CorranHornIsAwesome Official SAGA Edition Errata Dawn of Defiance Other Articles Thanks to GreySword for compiling these

"I do not feel like arguing this, but no, you, my friend, are the trolling one here.  SAGA is so far off balance it is almost a joke."

Care to back that up wth specific examples? Almost all of Saga's balance issues can be easily houseruled.

"As I understand it, and I could possibly be wrong, but they is only one core rulebook set to release this year.  The other ones are more like campaign guides or other type of specialty book.  Either like the Legacy Era CG or like Scum and Villainy.  Not too different from how SAGA worked. "

Wrong. It is essentially impossible to play a campaign of a different type without the book for it in EotE. Saga, not so much.


You see, when someone comes onto the boards for a game and just starts talking about how unbalanced that game is without any specific examples (that they find it unplayable) , that's almost the definition of trolling.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Saga has issues, yes, but none of them compare to not being able to play a JEDI KNIGHT in a STAR WARS game.
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
Saga has issues, yes, but none of them compare to not being able to play a JEDI KNIGHT in a STAR WARS game.




This, basically. I'm liking Chainmail Jedi more and more.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
lol great minds think alike Smile
192523575 wrote:
-In loving memory of all the Squirrel Jedi hunted down during the Dark Times.
"any eye for an eye leaves the world blind" "No it doesn't, there'd be one guy left with one eye" my custom miniatures http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/29829771/ChainmailJedis_customs
lol great minds think alike





And we've got the best two profile pics on the boards.


Kidding, kinda.

"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
well i bought a copy of the beginner game and found a copy of the beta, and and read most of the rule and i can say i like the campaign setting and era, but not the rule the symbol dice are confusing with if you get this symbol it counters that symbol. i can say i will be staying with saga edition for the forcible future.
Care to back that up wth specific examples? Almost all of Saga's balance issues can be easily houseruled.

Nope, I do not feel like arguing it yet again.  Search for my screen name on this sight and you will find plenty of me arguing that SAGA is poorly balanced.  And note: when you say that it can be easily house-ruled, you are admitting that the game has failed in any area in which you need to create a house rule. 

I will, however, ammend my "you're wrong" statement and just say that you and I strongly disagree. 
  
Wrong. It is essentially impossible to play a campaign of a different type without the book for it in EotE. Saga, not so much.

Eh, I've read about six reviews and the data on the site, and I am totally not getting that feeling.  Maybe you have a link to something which would indicate this?

Honestly, I cannot imagine how it could possibly be the case that it would be "essentially impossible" to play a game outside the Rebellion Era.  That does not make sense to me.  Firstly, because mechanics are typically based around small-scale actions (making an attack, hacking a computer, bribing a guard) that should be applicable to any time period.  And secondly, Star Wars canon and EU has this tendency to repeat itself a lot, they all play with the same themes and overarching actions.  A mechanic talking about The Empire enslaving people should be completely convertable to a Hutt doing the same thing.  A YT-1300 or an A-Wing really are not that different than a Dynamic-class freighter or Aurek-class fighter.  A blaster pistol is still a blaster pistol.

My guess would be that even if the game is very, very focused on just the Rebellion Era, even a small bit of imagination should make it completely playable. 

You see, when someone comes onto the boards for a game and just starts talking about how unbalanced that game is without any specific examples (that they find it unplayable) , that's almost the definition of trolling.

Yeah, not to get too harsh, but you should really stop.  You are making yourself look bad.  Awogama said that as an intro to his post which lead into how he discovered the subject of conversation (Edge of the Empire).  He did not start an argument or try trolling anyone.  You just decide to pull that bit out of context and try and start an argument.  

Saga has issues, yes, but none of them compare to not being able to play a JEDI KNIGHT in a STAR WARS game.

Why couldn't you, though?  This the part that is confusing me, I do not see that coming up in reviews and the like.  I have even seen specific talk of a "Force Exile" or something which is basically a Force user on the run, a Jedi Knight for instance.  And I know I saw someone talk about lightsabers being in the game.  I just do not see it.

And besides, do you want to know how Star Wars looks without Jedi Knights?  Watch Star Wars.  See, in A New Hope the only Jedi Knight is the mentor character (almost certainly an NPC in RPG context) and he dies.  The Jedi were treated as almost mythical beings, and they were not the focus of the story.  The Jedi obsession came later.  So if you like the idea of Star Wars getting more back to its roots, a lesser emphasis on Jedi is not a problem.

Still, I am quite certain that it will be possible to build a generic Jedi Knight using the rules presented.
"And the TL;DR award goes to Raul Torin!" - CorranHornIsAwesome Official SAGA Edition Errata Dawn of Defiance Other Articles Thanks to GreySword for compiling these
Care to back that up wth specific examples? Almost all of Saga's balance issues can be easily houseruled.

Nope, I do not feel like arguing it yet again.  Search for my screen name on this sight and you will find plenty of me arguing that SAGA is poorly balanced.  And note: when you say that it can be easily house-ruled, you are admitting that the game has failed in any area in which you need to create a house rule. 

I will, however, ammend my "you're wrong" statement and just say that you and I strongly disagree. 
 


Fair enough.

Wrong. It is essentially impossible to play a campaign of a different type without the book for it in EotE. Saga, not so much.


Eh, I've read about six reviews and the data on the site, and I am totally not getting that feeling.  Maybe you have a link to something which would indicate this?

Honestly, I cannot imagine how it could possibly be the case that it would be "essentially impossible" to play a game outside the Rebellion Era.  That does not make sense to me.  Firstly, because mechanics are typically based around small-scale actions (making an attack, hacking a computer, bribing a guard) that should be applicable to any time period.  And secondly, Star Wars canon and EU has this tendency to repeat itself a lot, they all play with the same themes and overarching actions.  A mechanic talking about The Empire enslaving people should be completely convertable to a Hutt doing the same thing.  A YT-1300 or an A-Wing really are not that different than a Dynamic-class freighter or Aurek-class fighter.  A blaster pistol is still a blaster pistol.


My guess would be that even if the game is very, very focused on just the Rebellion Era, even a small bit of imagination should make it completely playable. 




Here's a quote from FFG themselves, found at www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite...


"Edge of the Empire is the first of three standalone, but fully cross-compatible roleplaying systems. Each introduces a unique dimension of the Star Warsplay experience, but the core mechanics are fully interchangeable. Players and GMs will have the option to use these materials separately or combine them as they see fit in order to carve out a unique, custom roleplaying experience.

The Core Rulebook for Edge of the Empire allows players to create characters with checkered pasts and deep obligations, and it invites them to experience the thrills and adventures of life on the outskirts and the fringes of the Star Wars galaxy. Coming later, Star Wars®: Age of Rebellion™ will allow players to take the fight to the Galactic Empire as members of the Rebel Alliance, and Star Wars®: Force and Destiny™ will permit players to assume the burden of the last surviving Force users who are hunted by the Empire and must fight for survival even as they seek to uphold the ideals of their forbears – the fabled Jedi."


"three standalone"
"allows players"
"will permit players"

Anything is open to interpretation, but it sems fairly clear to me that the rules do not support playing a Jedi in any meaningful way. Now, FFG heavily emphasises the idea that they will be cross compatible, but that dosen't mean that they all cover each other's entire mechanics section.

Ex: I can play Munchkin Impossible and Super Munchkin together, but I can't play Super Munchkin with just Munchkin Impossible. There are subtle differences in the game setup.



You see, when someone comes onto the boards for a game and just starts talking about how unbalanced that game is without any specific examples (that they find it unplayable) , that's almost the definition of trolling.

Yeah, not to get too harsh, but you should really stop.  You are making yourself look bad.  Awogama said that as an intro to his post which lead into how he discovered the subject of conversation (Edge of the Empire).  He did not start an argument or try trolling anyone.  You just decide to pull that bit out of context and try and start an argument.  



 It may be that I'm "touchy", but if I came to your house and said to someone else "Oh, I used to live here but it's become dirty and unkept" and then talked about something else you still wouldn't like it. (Or maybe you would, for some wierd psychological reason).

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" class="mceContentBody " contenteditable="true" />
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Hello There

I hope this is the right place to put a Few questions....


Prelude
I ve got a bunch of Models as I used to play sw miniatures- still do-from time to time

We-my goup and I-started playing DnD 2weeks ago, for some of us the first rpg

We all love star wars (as it were possible not to!..)

Questions

What is the better system(s) taking in consideration the above stated?
(i ve already ordered thE edge of the empire beginner box but would change it if needed)

What should I buy to play ie. Weopons guide and technology and such?
I ll be the game Master, I need to be aware

Are these Guides compatible with the Edge of Empire?

Finnaly
I think we are not so much in the light saber duel as we are in the taking an adventure like han or chewbacca




 
Hm, I do see what you are saying about Jedi not being fully playable early on.  It does kind of look like they are going to focus a lot more on scoundrel-type characters in their first book, and then add in other perspectives later.  It even says that the second book will be about truely fighting the Empire, implying that the first book will not.  I am a little less sure about it, but...

I am still fairly excited about the game.  From me point of view, this is one of the types of game that I really prefer to play.  Big epics are not my style as either a GM or players, so the game focusing on the fringe of the Empire, treating the Empire less like an enemy to be defeated by the end of the game and more like a complication of the setting really works for me.  I often found that with SAGA, and even with older versions, half of the players (typically two or three for my groups) would play Force users and most likely Jedi.  I assume that most people have had a similar experience.  So I can see why the prospect of a Star Wars RPG without much of a focus on Force users can seem unappealing, but I am on the other side of that.  I am quite glad to see a game that might really encourage playing other type; maybe even seeing a campaign without a Force user in the party at all.  That, to me, does not sound like a problem.  Just different.

It is like I said above, the original poster said that it sounded like a Firefly RPG, and that sounds like a good thing to me.  Firefly, Farscape, Babylon 5, Lost in Space; those are all fun and interesting - and unique -  settings that I would gladly use in a game.  And yes, this is Star Wars, which is not all that different, but it is still the same flavor of game.  Simply removing the mystical aspects (which they are not doing, completely) does not leave a boring or un-entertaining setting.

Closing, to me, Star Wars has always been about heroes overcoming difficult challenges, villains with terrible schemes, and having an thrilling adventure.  The Force part is tiny, even insignificant, when compared to the parts of Star Wars that makes it great.  That's me, sure, but that also sounds like their philosophy when making this game.  So yeah, I like what I am seeing.
"And the TL;DR award goes to Raul Torin!" - CorranHornIsAwesome Official SAGA Edition Errata Dawn of Defiance Other Articles Thanks to GreySword for compiling these
Yeah, I can respect that. But it's not to my own tastes.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Hey there, my group and I purchased the beginner box a few weeks ago and have just finished the first adventure in there with the pre-generated characters. So I might toss in an extra perspective/review:

The beginner box comes with a rulebook, adventure, 4 pre-generated characters (each in their own 6 page colour booklets), character & enemy tokens, lots of dice and 4 large colour foldout maps for the adventure.


Firstly: The artwork is definately some of the best I've seen, (no more stills from the films) and may be one of the big selling points I think.

Those above are correct in that the first batch of rulebooks are going to be focusing on the 'fringer/scoundrel' side of things, with the next rulebook moving on to soldiers/warfare and then finally the force/jedi. Personally I like this modular introduction of rules but I guess we'll see how it pans out.

It definitly has a gritty, improvised, firefly style to it at the moment with us being chased through cantina's and spaceports by stormtroopers and Hutt agents. Similar to the older systems WEG/RCR, there is a real danger of getting into a big fight, Hp are more or less set and it is more skill/ingenuity that keeps you from getting shot. I'm not sure if this will be the same with the later rules but it captures the feeling you'd want from a scoundrel campaign.

The dice system is based on a narrative style which I think some may find hard to adjust to rather than the d20 number-crunching. You roll a pool of dice which can give you a more complex result than the normal pass/fail you normally get. Essentially you the GM adds a few 'failure dice' into your rolls which gives a chance of cancelling out your successful rolls...leaving you with a kind of net result or aggregate to go on. This means you could fail a check for instance but still maybe do well enough for instance to get some unexpected benefit and vice versa.

For instance: Oskara, the Twi'lek bounty hunter is trying to slice a computer terminal. She is not too bad at this so she rolls 3 'success' dice (which have symbols denoting varying levels of success) but the GM says that this terminal is an outdated security system so he'll only add 1 'failure' die to my roll to counter it. However Oskara, as is often the case,  is under heavy fire from the enemy so the GM adds another 'failure' die to my pool (now 5 dice in my hand) to represent the disadvantage I'm suffering. Once I roll these, I realise that these 'failure' dice have cancelled out some of my 'success' dice causing me to fail to crack the terminal.....but....I have lone positive result remaing....an advantage! The GM informs me that although Oskara failed she notices something on the security monitor, another group of Stormtroopers coming from the direction, giving her a chance to warn her friends.

This scenario naturally has tons of different outcomes and degrees of success, she might not have succeded but not noticed the stormtroopers, or she might have succeded but tripped an alarm etc, etc. This creates an intersting narrative play where the GM and players can create fairly dynamic and unexpected encounters. So far it also seems to foster imaginative approaches and use of the enviroment more than Saga. It also has the streamlined and elegent ethos Saga went for.

I think this game is still in it's infancy (this was the beginner box after all) and I'd like to see more rules and options with the main rulebook but I certainly think the game will have no trouble letting people play the sort of games you are all describing. Wookies will still be ripping droid arms off and (which is actually something that could happen now), stormtroopers will bang their heads and be mind trick, and daring smugglers will run around causing havoc for my taciturn bounty hunter still.

I'd suggest trying the new system before you get the main rules....the new proabablitly mechanics will be quite different to the usual d20 we've been playing so I won't reccomend it until people are comfortable with that. Personally I see good deal of promise with it and it does harken back to the old d6 stuff which I think the older crowd will appreciate but us younger folk may find the change will take getting used to. That said....it's still Star Wars, we'll get jedi, droids and bounty hunters, so don't worry too much.

P.S. Art is worth a look even if you don't want to play.
-Excellent. Rise, Lord Eli, newest Hand of Karsus...
Could you explain why you find it unbalanced? Using just the core rulebook Saga is quite balanced in my opinion, with regards to the movies. Sure Force Users have an advantage, especially Dark Siders with powers like Lightning, but that's how it should be. This is not D&D, this is SW. Jedi should be superior to your average Trooper.


Skills vs. defenses is the most unbalanced thing in Saga. Especially with Skill Focus (Use the Force) at level 2 and a moderate CHA score, you can get a +13 UtF check modifier, which leads to near-automatic successes with Force Slam and Force Grip and things like that. It's not fair that this force-user needs to roll a 2 on his UtF to hit a Stormtrooper with Force Grip or Move Object, but a combat-focused level 2 soldier with similar stats needs to roll a 10 or higher. If you use Force Slam, you can roll a 1 and kill a 6-sq cone of Stormtroopers. That's unbalanced. And I haven't even talked about the other skills vs. defenses (Deception and Persuasion vs. Will defense in particular).

As for Edge of the Empire vs. Saga Edition, this thread has some insight from those who have played both editions:
www.d20radio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=...

As for me, I haven't played EotE yet. But I'm willing to give it a chance before I condemn it. Just because the rules on force-users is are skimpy in the first book doesn't make it an automatic failure. If you want to play a force-user that badly, just wait until they come out with the Force rulebook.

Anyway, it isn't a matter of which system is "better." They can both be different and both be good at the same time. It seems like EotE is level-less skill-based game rather than "number-crunching" level-based combat game. One RPG group might be in the mood to play some rebellion-era scoundrel stories, so they play EotE. Then, the same group might later feel like playing some mass combat epic force and lightsaber duels, so they play Saga.

I don't see a new and very different Star Wars RPG as a bad thing. I see it as simply more variety for Star Wars role-players.


JOIN US AT THE NEW STAR WARS SAGA EDITION COMMUNITY: THE SAGA CONTINUES!

 

Compiled files of all Star Wars Saga Edition resource documents & reference tools - NPCs, character sheets, Dawn of Defiance, Force and lightsaber form power cards, Jedi Counseling articles, NPC statblocks, Saga Index to all feats, talents, species, weapons, etc, Star Wars articles and web enhancements

"As for me, I haven't played EotE yet. But I'm willing to give it a chance before I condemn it. Just because the rules on force-users is are skimpy in the first book doesn't make it an automatic failure. If you want to play a force-user that badly, just wait until they come out with the Force rulebook."

Being a definite narrativist myself, having a game system purposefully restrict character concepts is an immediate red flag imo. Usually enough to make me look elsewhere.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Anyway, I overreacted, and I apologise. I was in a bad mood when I wrote that and was too defensivre about it.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Based on Eli_the_Tanner's description, I will never, ever be playing that game. I loathe those kind of dice pools with a passion, even more so if "special" dice are involved.

I've had no problem using degrees of success/failure with Saga, or playing it as a TotM style game, or anything else that other systems supposedly do better.
Children believe what we tell them, they have complete faith in us. I ask of you a little of this childlike simplicity, and to bring us luck, let me speak four truly magic words: "A long time ago...." (Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast) Winner of You Build the Character #12, YbtC #22, YbtC #24, YbtC #28 and YbtC #35 Winner of You Make the... Contest #8
Hello There


Questions

What is the better system(s) taking in consideration the above stated?
(i ve already ordered thE edge of the empire beginner box but would change it if needed)

What should I buy to play ie. Weopons guide and technology and such?
I ll be the game Master, I need to be aware

Are these Guides compatible with the Edge of Empire?

Finnaly
I think we are not so much in the light saber duel as we are in the taking an adventure like han or chewbacca
 



Hi there!  There are several things you should consider.  It sounds like you're set on a fringer type of campaign  Certainly SAGA and EOTE can handle fringer types of campaigns much like the ones you would find with Han and Chewbacca type characters.  And you really can play with as many or as few books as you want.  Many of the SAGA books are specific to eras and settings.  For example Legacy of the Era Campaign guide is going to take place some few generations after Luke and Leia are dead... but it's still got a lot of equipment, feats, talents, and character options.  Likewise, the Rebellion Era Campaign Guide will have lots of things to help you fight in the rebellion against the empire... but it's still got a lot of equipment, feats, talents, and character options.  Though if *I* were doing a fringer campaign in Saga, I would want at least Scum and Villainy, Starships of the Galaxy, And maybe a period-specific book. 

With EOTE, it can also handle that kind of campaign.  In fact, it's specifically designed to handle that kind of campaign, with the promise of more supplements and other compatible core books to come. 

More than books, there are several things to consider.  What kind of play experience do you want to have?  SAGA is really good at representing a tactical and combat oriented game with specific feats and talents designed to help groups work in conjunction together to gain tactical advantages.  All of the combat movement correlates to squares of movement on a battle mat.  Several feats and talents are designed around this square orientation.  EOTE is much more fluid and the combat is much more abstract.  Rather than having to move six squares with your movement, whilst your enemy is still precisely 13 squares away, EOTE will say you can spend a movement to move from Medium Range to Short Range.  Also, in SAGA, you have a numbered die system where a certain number allows you to succeed, and anything lower is a failure.  In EOTE it provides a challenge to a GM who is not used to a system of degrees of success and failure.  You can succeed at your task, but roll in such a way that something doesn't quite go as planned.  For example, in a recent game someone tried to make a persuasion roll to convince a bounty hunter to let the party on board his ship to uhh... "install a part."  (And later steal the ship, of course.)  They succeeded, but rolled a threat, so I determined that the hunter was convinced, but sent some battle droids along to make sure they behaved. 

The work for the GM is different in both systems.  The work for a SAGA GM is definitely front-loaded.  It takes quite a while to craft well-constructed PCs, and the consensus on the boards (if I'm not mistaken) is that he pre-gens in the books are so awfully underpowered (or otherwise ridden with flaws) that players tend to mow through them if the players have taken any time to do any sort of intelligent character design with good synergy between feats and talents.  EOTE the work is back loaded.  It's easy to come up with NPCs.  Some GMs say they come up with them in seconds when pressed to do so in game.  Though the work of dealing with the narrative dice system sometimes means you have to do some quick thinking on your feet.  Alternatively, it becomes a group discussion of what they want to do with their advantages and threats they roll. 

Pricepoint is also relevant.  How much do you want to spend?  It can cost between $40-$65 for some of the SAGA books, and others over $80 (pardon me guys if the market has changed in the last few months, but IIRC KOTOR Campaign Guide and SOTG are really hard to come by on eBay for a reasonable price).  Granted, others are cheaper, but it depends on what you want to play.  So, you collect these books ranging from $5.99 to $80 depending on what you want to play.  ETOE is $60 MSRP with $15 for a set of dice. 
 
Since the system is new, there are no conversions at this point... at least... not that I'm aware of.  Though I doubt you'll find much to convert at this stage.  I don't suspect that EOTE is going to introduce something in the core book that hasn't been statted elsewhere in the SAGA books.
 
Which system would I go for if *I* were running a new Star Wars campaign?  With my GMing style, and my love for a certain game flow, plus my knowledge of the system.  Well... I'd go with the old D6.  But I don't think that people really want to hear much about that in an EOTE & SAGA conversation.   

Interesting that price gets mentioned.  As we know SWSE is out of print and some books list for outrageous prices but you can often get by just fine without them and if you are patient can get them for something close to the price printed on the book.  If EotE has a $60 MSRP that is 150% the SECR's $40 so it had better be a lot more complete and comprehensive.  It has also been a while since I've purchased any dice but for some reason $15 seems high to me and it seems that EotE has special dice requirements.  Aside from SWSE's lesser availability I actually think it's price point may be more obtainable for most as the SECR is all you really need to play despite many of us referencing other works.

Now I wouldn't criticize EotE for its era choices.  It may be set during the Rebellion era but most "crunch" can easily transfer from era to era.  It may not produce "official" stats for out of era things but those things can often be done simply by reskinning something that is already known.


When it comes to campaign styles I also like the old d6 game from WEG for a classless and more narrative style of setting.  Most of what was written for that could be played at "low levels" and advancement was often just a matter of throwing more dice at a problem.  The thing I never really got/liked about WEG was the "Force" aspect of it.  When it gets going it's too good but getting there is a pain. 
I spent enough time playing it, and discussing it on the forums, that I can't imagine being willing to play it, much less interested.

Scaling costs for new specializations, higher cost if it's outside your career, higher cost for non career skills, some careers have no combat skills whatsoever (yeah, show me a protagonist in star wars with no combat skills. And don't try to tell me that Padme or Leah was multiclassed. They're pure noble.) etc. The motivation rules are...weird.

I'd almost rather play RCR Star Wars.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
I'd say Leia was multiclassed, but not Padme. And Leia could cerainly fight before she multiclassed (Somewhere before ESB, imo). So yeah, no combat skills is absurd.

As cool as Gryph is I wouldn't want to play him as a PC, ever.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I'd say Leia was multiclassed, but not Padme. And Leia could cerainly fight before she multiclassed (Somewhere before ESB, imo). So yeah, no combat skills is absurd.

As cool as Gryph is I wouldn't want to play him as a PC, ever.



And I'd say that c3po is an NPC, all the way. I could maybe see building r2d2 as a PC, though, but with some kind of hidden blaster pistol like weapon built in. (I like my astromech droids with illegal custimizations, what can I say? )
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
I'd say Leia was multiclassed, but not Padme. And Leia could cerainly fight before she multiclassed (Somewhere before ESB, imo). So yeah, no combat skills is absurd.

As cool as Gryph is I wouldn't want to play him as a PC, ever.



And I'd say that c3po is an NPC, all the way. I could maybe see building r2d2 as a PC, though, but with some kind of hidden blaster pistol like weapon built in. (I like my astromech droids with illegal custimizations, what can I say? )




That's the only way to play an astromech in the RotE era. It's fun when "Little Chirpy" sends an unlucky stormtrooper to The Great Promotion Ceremony in the Sky.
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Interesting that price gets mentioned.  As we know SWSE is out of print and some books list for outrageous prices but you can often get by just fine without them and if you are patient can get them for something close to the price printed on the book.  If EotE has a $60 MSRP that is 150% the SECR's $40 so it had better be a lot more complete and comprehensive.  It has also been a while since I've purchased any dice but for some reason $15 seems high to me and it seems that EotE has special dice requirements.  Aside from SWSE's lesser availability I actually think it's price point may be more obtainable for most as the SECR is all you really need to play despite many of us referencing other works.



Yeah, I tried to pharse that one without saying, "This one is clarly superior because of pricepoint."  The $60 MSRP on ETOE is pretty steep.  I think the expense with SAGA really depends on what you want to play.  You have the benefit of knowing you have a pretty complete system, and you can cherry pick between what is going to be relevant and what is not.  If you wanted to do a rebellion era game, you could easily get a way with the core book, Rebellion Eroa CG and Force Unleashed CG.  TFUCG is (or at least was) pretty cheap.  Alternatively, a Legacy Era game is even cheaper.  I think I even picked up The Legacy Era book for 99 cents.  If you wanted to play with the KOTOR book, then prepared to pay a lot of money, or be really patient waiting for the right moment to snag somethign on eBay.

I have no idea what the ETOE supplements are going to be like, so it's hard to make a fair comparison of FFG's books and WotC books in terms of prices, but I think that we would be wise to expect the books to continue to be pricey. 

Nonetheless, I think price is something to consider. 
I'll admit I haven't looked into EotE all that much but a $60 MSRP on what appears to be one of three books for a "set" is certainly high.  That makes three books for the "set" at $180 and that is more then the MSRP on four SWSE books.  If we were to say the analog would be SECR, S&V, GaW, and JATM they list at $155 and actually cover most of what I'd think needs to be covered.  Now in a four book set I'd replace the JATM with the FUCG.