Twin Striking Blackguard in Heroic

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Is it possible to have Twin Strike as a Blackguard in heroic?  I've been DM'ng for a while, so my character building skills are a bit rusty.  I tried multi-classing, but apparently there isn't a feat to swap an at-will.  So I thought I would give a hybrid a try, but you can only take the Hybrid Talent feat once.  Which means I can't have plate armor and the rangers two weapon fighting.

The only way I've been able to come close is a Hybrid that takes two weapon fighting and then spends every single feat up to sixth level on armor.  That is incredibly limiting character wise.

Are there any options I'm missing?
Many options, most of them good, none of them involving a Blackguard, and therefore all of them better.
You don't have to have Ranger Weapon Style to use Twin Strike; you only need it if you want to use a weapon in your off hand that doesn't come with the off-hand property.  Also, unless you HAVE to have it at-will in heroic, Half Elf with Dilettante might be an option.
@Celerian01 - Sorry, I wasn't specific.  My concept is a blackguard DW two full size weapons and attacking with both.  Two full size weapons seems to be a ranger only thing and since there aren't any generic or paladin at-wills that use two weapons I was shooting for twin strike.  Since both are ranger abilties it seemed like the best mix.  I would like the two weapon attack to be my go-to attack.

@Alcestis - Perhaps you could elaborate on some of these options?  Perhaps I can find a way to make something work.  And despite the blackguard not being a popular class and considered by some to be *gasp* underpowered, I like the flavor and would like to use it.

I know this is char-op, but I'm not looking for the most powerful character possible.  Char-op is just the go to for me when I'm trying to figure out how to make something work.  If there was a power-swap at-will or if I could just take Hybrid Talent twice I would be golden.
Depending on what you have envisioned for the character, there are some options.

For example, if you want to be a blackguard just for the dark flavor, that can easily be accomplished by writing your own. You're obviously, as you yourself already seem aware, not picking the class for its awesome dual weapon powers.


How about a Tempest fighter or Whirling barbarian with MC ranger to pick up the two full sized weapons ?

You could also go straight up ranger (and refluff the hide armor) or ranger|cleric (Battle Clerics Lore) if you need that heavy armor.

From the very beginning the developers have stated people should write their own flavor, which is why people in this channel focus on the mechanical aspects only.


You want a well armored class with two full weapons, ideally that makes use of both of them? The simplest answer is a Str/Dex race, two weapon ranger, boost Str and Dex all the time, and in hide armor you will have a decent AC.  
    
The Blackguard has no striker powers. Trying to build a striker out of it is totally pointless.
The whirling barb gets two full-sized weapons anyway. They come out with a decent AC, but you could always MC cleric for BCL is you want to mechanically be in heavy armour.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
To answer the original question (kinda), there's no way in hell this could work well because the only Blackguard worth a damn is the the hybrid blackguard, and that rules out any chance you'll ever have of getting your damage mechanic on Twin Strike.

On the other hand, a Blackguard|Executioner PMC Ranger for DWA might at least be nominally interesting. We'll call her....Black Mia. 
Racist!
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
@Celerian01 - Sorry, I wasn't specific.  My concept is a blackguard DW two full size weapons and attacking with both.  Two full size weapons seems to be a ranger only thing and since there aren't any generic or paladin at-wills that use two weapons I was shooting for twin strike.  Since both are ranger abilties it seemed like the best mix.  I would like the two weapon attack to be my go-to attack.

@Alcestis - Perhaps you could elaborate on some of these options?  Perhaps I can find a way to make something work.  And despite the blackguard not being a popular class and considered by some to be *gasp* underpowered, I like the flavor and would like to use it.

I know this is char-op, but I'm not looking for the most powerful character possible.  Char-op is just the go to for me when I'm trying to figure out how to make something work.  If there was a power-swap at-will or if I could just take Hybrid Talent twice I would be golden.

The only ways to get at-will Twin Strike on a Blackguard would be to half-elf dilettante with Versatile Mastery or paragon multiclassing Ranger, which lets you swap an at-will at 11. It's just not going to happen in heroic.

However, I'd really urge you not to play Blackguard just for the flavor. Not because I think Blackguard is worthless, etc, but because it's just really not built to wield two weapons. I'd really recommend being a Ranger or Barbarian and transferring the flavor over. When you have a specific mechanical requirement like dual wielding full weapons, sometimes you have to build around that requirement and modify fluff as needed.

And if you're not willing to refluff a class, also consider you can refluff your attacks. Your sheet could say fullblade but you can describe attacks however you want.
To answer the original question (kinda), there's no way in hell this could work well because the only Blackguard worth a damn is the the hybrid blackguard, and that rules out any chance you'll ever have of getting your damage mechanic on Twin Strike.

On the other hand, a Blackguard|Executioner PMC Ranger for DWA might at least be nominally interesting. We'll call her....Black Mia. 



Except that build lacks Nova. Hardcore.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I'll second (fourth?) Ranger|Cleric with a dark/emo/evil/whatever deity choice.
To answer the original question (kinda), there's no way in hell this could work well because the only Blackguard worth a damn is the the hybrid blackguard, and that rules out any chance you'll ever have of getting your damage mechanic on Twin Strike.

On the other hand, a Blackguard|Executioner PMC Ranger for DWA might at least be nominally interesting. We'll call her....Black Mia. 



Except that build lacks Nova. Hardcore.



Requires you to accept more contestable RAW arguments, but...Go Dex/Cha (the optimal build would have been a revenant anything anyway), Claws of Griffin at E7 (nevermind, that's strength-based), Flurry of Talons at E13, Shadow Fire at E17. 

Maybe also take Martial Archetype ED. Either way, the nova capability isn't that much worse than if the base chassis was an avenger.
I think the original question really was heavy armor and dual weapon.


You can achieve that by reflavoring light armor to heavy, go tempest fighter or |cleric with BCL.


The type of character you play, and what gods he or she sinks on his or her knees for, is entirely up to you, and has little if anything to do with the class you play     
I would agree with the Barb|Cleric or Ranger|Cleric suggestions mentioned. You can dual wield weapons, have access to good powers down the line, wear heavy armor, and worship whatever dark deity you desire.
Are we including the strikers that get +(secondary stat) to damage rolls?

Edit - I've noticed that the Blackgaurd 'striker feature' can be dealt more than once per turn.  If this is the case, is there a way to exploit the crap out of this? Also, is it the only striker damage mechanic to behave this way?



It's not exclusive, both the Sorc and Avenger (as long as you consider OoE the striker mechanic) can be dealt multiple times per turn. 
Alan that is kind of the problem with the blackguard.  Its striker damage feature is good enough, but it doesn't get striker powers to use it with.  No double taps, immediates, or minor action attacks. 

And since it requires weapon attacks it eliminates things like dragonbreath.   So for hybirds you can't use it with all the paladin immediate implement powers, but it at least works with avenging smite and knightly intercesion.  Paladins don't have minor actions attacks and I don't think they have any multiattacks, but I could be wrong about that.

You can at least use it with some strikerish themes like sohei or elemental initiate.
It's not just "there are better strikers", it's "this is not a striker", like the Sentinel isn't a leader and Berserker isn't a defender. If you don't have the powers to back up the description, the role label is a lie.
Hypothetically, is there a good use for the Blackgaurd if you're not pretending it's a striker?

Decorating a goth party?

Hypothetically, is there a good use for the Blackgaurd if you're not pretending it's a striker?



Can't really think of any, to be honest. It's basically just a paladin who sucks at his job.
Its ok for hybrid or multiclassing into, but that is because it counts as a paladin and you get to use paladin stuff. 

The difference between hybrid regular paladin and hybrid blackguard is that you trade divine challenge for a Spirit of Vice and Dark Menance that only work with paladin powers.  And you can hybrid talent to pick up shroud of shadow instead of channel divinity.
So basically...no, it's ass. With the existence of Specter Shield, there is simply no excuse at all to consider the Blackguard over the Paladin if you have any interest in Charisma. -STAT to an enemy's defense as an offturn action is amazing for getting some beefy damage out.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I can't find Specter Shield in the compendium.  What is it?



A ChanDiv swap that allows you to, as an immediate reaction on being attacked (hit?) apply a penalty to the enemy's defenses equal to your Charisma until the end of your next turn, IIRC. The only catch is that it has the Fear keyword, but whatcha gonna do - it's still a bloody outstanding trick to have because it doesn't even require a hit roll. Gist of it:


Spectre's Shield, Encounter Utility. Replaces Divine Mettle.

Target: Triggering enemy
Trigger: An enemy within 5 squares of you attacks you.
Effect: The triggering enemy takes a penalty to all defenses equal to your Charisma modifier.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Best (only) use I've found for it so far is the MC entry feat.  You can get a trained skill and a divine MC without having to meet any requirements at all.  I'll take the other posters at their word that it works as a hybrid - I've never tried to build one.
The only hybrid people use it for is Executioner, which is a super-gimmicky charger. Warlock does it better.

I figured out why I hadn't heard of Specter's Shield.  It looks like none of the powers from that Unearthed arcana article in dragon 398 made it to the compendium.  I haven't checked, but they are probably not in the OCB either.

Edit: according to the article those are not official powers and are DM dependent.

This was brought up in the rules Q&A thread:
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Supposedly Unearthed Arcana isn't official game content? 

The only hybrid people use it for is Executioner, which is a super-gimmicky charger. Warlock does it better.



Not that the blackguard actually has anything to do with his minors, but you could argue an action economy advantage and targetting advantage over the warlock. Plus devout protector expertise, holy symbol access, the ability not to have to maintain a second stat at attack-caliber, etc. It's sort of like asking why play striker class x when y does it better (y = ranger). Sure, its worse, but its different enough to be interesting.
Thank you for all of the advice everyone.  It does look like my envisioned character will only be possible using the half elf diletante (sp).  I was really aiming for amping up the spirit of vice damage with a twin strikeing, plate wearing, dread smiting character.  Hybrid looked close, but I didn't realize that the vice bonuses only applied to paladin attack powers.  I'll save the concept for if I ever get into a paragon game.

I don't mind refluffing, but I can only handle so much.  Refluff scale to light plate, no problem.  Refluff a hafling hexblade as a mideval yoda, I can handle that.  Refluff a goliath wizard as erol flynn, breaks the wall for me.

So, again, thank you for all of your help & suggestions.
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