3.5 Crusader help

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Hi. I've just started my first campaign and I've borrowed some books from some friends and I'm playing as a Crusader. I'm thinking of multiclassing with cleric one level and then prestiging ruby knight. Ruby Knight requires hide to have 4 ranks in it though and I'm unsure of the best way to get hide into my character without sacrificing anything while still not having to dip one level into another class. 
Trickery domain grants Hide as a class skill.
Trickery Domain isn't open to clerics of Wee Jas, is it?
I'm currently afb, but I really like both clerics and crusaders, which means I can give you some options. First, what books are allowed, how are ability scores generated (and if it's by rolling the dice, have you already done so?), what houserules should we be aware of, and what is your ultimate goal for the character? Ruby Knight Vindicator is fine as an answer, but have you thought past that?
Two... Ah ah ah! Three.. Ah ah ah! Four... Ah ah ah! Six... Ah ah ah!!
88534793 wrote:
Punctuation exists for a reason, and your neglect of the shift key is to the point where Social Services should be involved.
Trickery Domain isn't open to clerics of Wee Jas, is it?

Worship a pantheon. Problem solved.

Or, of course, one can simply eat the CC cost, it isn't too bad.
I'm currently afb, but I really like both clerics and crusaders, which means I can give you some options. First, what books are allowed, how are ability scores generated (and if it's by rolling the dice, have you already done so?), what houserules should we be aware of, and what is your ultimate goal for the character? Ruby Knight Vindicator is fine as an answer, but have you thought past that?

But, more importantly, this.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
You need 4 ranks of Hide?  There is a really simple way to get that which doesn't require any multiclassing or maybe taking Domains you don't think you can access.  You simple spend the extra skill points to get them as cross-class skills.  What do you need for 4 ranks of hide as a non-class skill?  Just 8 skill points so you're 4 ranks is like some "appropriate" classes 8 ranks and that is 5th-level for either character which is just about the time you normally can start accessing PrCs.
 
Short, short answer to your question (other than the already-recommended cross-class ranks): Take Martial Study (any Shadow Hand maneuver); it gives you Hide as a class skill. And, since the RKV allows you to take Shadow Hand maneuvers/stances, it won't stick out like a sore thumb. If you want suggestions for more, you need to provide more info.
Two... Ah ah ah! Three.. Ah ah ah! Four... Ah ah ah! Six... Ah ah ah!!
88534793 wrote:
Punctuation exists for a reason, and your neglect of the shift key is to the point where Social Services should be involved.
+1 to Count_Von_CoC's suggestion there. Get something at 3 like Cloak of Deception, that lets you pile ranks in at 3, 4 and 5 (Going to need to do 2 ranks at once for one of those levels) and gets you swift action single round improved invisibility. Great synergy with Power Attack there.
Another option, if you're human, is to take Able Learner as one of your initial 1st level feats. This makes all your cross-class skills only cost 1 skill point per rank and its benefit will help throughout your career.

Martial Study in a Shadow Hand maneuver is swell and the extra maneuver is great, but if you're only taking it in order to gain Hide as an in-class skill then the benefit is null once you take Ruby Knight Vindicator since Hide is in-class for them.
 
Able Learner lets you get cheap ranks in all useful skills (Hide, Bluff, Escape Artist, all Knowledges, Tumble, Use Magic Device, etc) up to half (Character Level+3).
The benefit from Martial Study is twofold: it makes Hide a class skill, which means that you can ignore that "half" part of Ahruhn's formula. The other benefit is that it lets you qualify for higher level Shadow Hand maneuvers sooner.
Two... Ah ah ah! Three.. Ah ah ah! Four... Ah ah ah! Six... Ah ah ah!!
88534793 wrote:
Punctuation exists for a reason, and your neglect of the shift key is to the point where Social Services should be involved.
Yep, exactly why I like the solution CVCC. The Shadow Hand maneuver has you ready to qualify for more powerful shadow hand stuff once you're into RKV.
That's true. It all depends on the course Spork wants to go with his character though. Since Shadow Hand is the only new set of maneuvers open to him by going RKV, he may want to just build on the other three that he already had been building up as a Crusader.

I'm just presenting another option that he could take to get the 4 ranks in Hide he requires for the PrC and have a way of becoming much more skilled in things that he otherwise wouldn't have considered with a cost of 2 points per rank. 
Trickery Domain isn't open to clerics of Wee Jas, is it? I'm currently afb, but I really like both clerics and crusaders, which means I can give you some options. First, what books are allowed, how are ability scores generated (and if it's by rolling the dice, have you already done so?), what houserules should we be aware of, and what is your ultimate goal for the character? Ruby Knight Vindicator is fine as an answer, but have you thought past that?



Ability scores are generated by rolling and I have done so. We are still unsure of houserules as our DM is new to DnD aswell and this is his first time DMing. And as my for ultimate goal for the character, I would hopefully like to be not be overpowered by spellcasters because I've read that spellcasters tend to be pretty OP in 3.5. I really just want a strong martial character. I'd also like to be able to heal myself rather well thus quite a few points going into my devoted maneuvers. 

The main reason that I want to be able to heal myself rather well is because I don't want to have my cleric focus so hard on me in combat so that he can have plenty of opportunity to heal the other members of the party (Ranger, Bard, Sorceress).

We're all starting level 1 and my plan so far is Crusader 4/Cleric 1/ RKV x

Um... You could (easily) dish out more damage than anyone, (almost) sneak around as well as the ranger & bard, and cast (almost) as well as the cleric. It would be a very, VERY simple matter to give you 9th-level spells, and 8th-level maneuvers by level 20. Do you want to go that route, or would you prefer to focus on maneuvers, with spellcasting being secondary?
Also, what are your ability scores, and what books are available?
Two... Ah ah ah! Three.. Ah ah ah! Four... Ah ah ah! Six... Ah ah ah!!
88534793 wrote:
Punctuation exists for a reason, and your neglect of the shift key is to the point where Social Services should be involved.
The main reason that I want to be able to heal myself rather well is because I don't want to have my cleric focus so hard on me in combat so that he can have plenty of opportunity to heal the other members of the party (Ranger, Bard, Sorceress).

As a general principle, you keep healing as a backup, only using it in combat if you absolutely have to heal in order to keep vital members of your party on their feet.

Once your opponent is no longer a threat, you'll typically have plenty of opportunity to get everyone healed, and the longer you spend fighting the more damage you'll take, so you should aim to end every fight as quickly as possible.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Slagger, the thing about Crusaders is that they can heal themselves, and eventually others, by hitting their opponent.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Slagger, the thing about Crusaders is that they can heal themselves, and eventually others, by hitting their opponent.

That's true, but they often do so at the expense of using a more damaging maneuver and even readying a healing maneuver means weighing it as more valuable than a more damaging maneuver.

I'm not saying to avoid healing like it's the plague, Spork, and if you like the idea of being safely healed up, that's fine too, just keep in mind that prevention is often better than cure when you're in combat.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Good point.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Um... You could (easily) dish out more damage than anyone, (almost) sneak around as well as the ranger & bard, and cast (almost) as well as the cleric. It would be a very, VERY simple matter to give you 9th-level spells, and 8th-level maneuvers by level 20. Do you want to go that route, or would you prefer to focus on maneuvers, with spellcasting being secondary? Also, what are your ability scores, and what books are available?



I would rather focus on maneuvers but I also havent looked too far into cleric spellcasting so by saying "9'th level spells" i really dont know what kind of spells would be available. I also wouldn't be the only cleric in the party because we're going to have one party-member going melee cleric. I don't know my ability scores off the top of my head because I'm at work but I can let you know when I get home. I also have a ton of books available to me, so many that i can't actually name them all off the top of my head either and i will give you a full list when i get home as well. I have most non-setting books available because i have a lot of friends who play and they lent me their books because our party is all new.

Slagger, the thing about Crusaders is that they can heal themselves, and eventually others, by hitting their opponent.

That's true, but they often do so at the expense of using a more damaging maneuver and even readying a healing maneuver means weighing it as more valuable than a more damaging maneuver.

I'm not saying to avoid healing like it's the plague, Spork, and if you like the idea of being safely healed up, that's fine too, just keep in mind that prevention is often better than cure when you're in combat.



I do like the idea of being safely healed but I also see your point in saying that "prevention is often better than cure" and it makes sense. I do see your point in having more damaging maneuvers too rather than healing maneuvers.

I appreciate everyones help in building my character. I'm glad this forum really helped a lot.
The problem is that you & the melee cleric are going to be stepping on each other's toes. Since the Ruby Knight doesn't slow casting very much, and you MUST have either cleric or paladin levels, you're basically going to be a melee cleric yourself.
Ninth level spells are pretty much the most powerful things that players have access to in the game. For clerics, that means spells like Miracle and True Resurrection, which alter the fabric of reality. Even ninth level maneuvers won't do that; but they will let you hit things really hard.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
The problem is that you & the melee cleric are going to be stepping on each other's toes. Since the Ruby Knight doesn't slow casting very much, and you MUST have either cleric or paladin levels, you're basically going to be a melee cleric yourself. Ninth level spells are pretty much the most powerful things that players have access to in the game. For clerics, that means spells like Miracle and True Resurrection, which alter the fabric of reality. Even ninth level maneuvers won't do that; but they will let you hit things really hard.



Yea, I'd rather not be stepping on my cleric's toes with my cleric spells so dipping one level into cleric and going almost all out martial RKV. Maybe If I don't feel the maneuvers are  going to be able to help me anymore I could get another level as a warblade or something.

I'm also going to be using a Warhammer and a shield. I'm curious as to if a Warhammer would actually be a good choice or if I'd be better going with a one-handed axe or even a sword?
Heh. How would you feel about a tank/trip/TWF crusader? Try looking up Tess the Molestress or Kris the Sadomasochist on here and see what you think. RT explains the "why" with Tess, and expressed interest in a Magic of Incarnum update. That's what I did with Kris.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Heh. How would you feel about a tank/trip/TWF crusader? Try looking up Tess the Molestress or Kris the Sadomasochist on here and see what you think. RT explains the "why" with Tess, and expressed interest in a Magic of Incarnum update. That's what I did with Kris.

I really do like tess but we've already rolled our characters and I'm a dwarven crusader so i only get 1 feat. Going TWF would be awesome. I haven't looked into the exotic weapons though. What's so good about the exotic weapons?
They're reach weapons that also threaten up-close. Since you're a dwarf, have you considered going for Deepstone Sentinel? Complicated builds tend to be less than ideal for new players, and the Sentinel is easily available to a crusader.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
They're reach weapons that also threaten up-close. Since you're a dwarf, have you considered going for Deepstone Sentinel? Complicated builds tend to be less than ideal for new players, and the Sentinel is easily available to a crusader.

I have looked at the deepstone sentinel but only glanced over it.
It's a better version of the DMG's Dwarvencraft Defender. I can guarantee that you won't break the game with it (and you could with a Vindicator), nor will you be encroaching on any other player's party role (which, again, you could easily do with a Vindicator).
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Ok so ability scores are...
Str - 17
Dex -  14
Con - 17
Wis - 15
Int - 10
Cha  - 14

We did the 4d6 - lowest for rolling our stats and allocated the 6 rolls to our character as we desired.

Books available...

Book of Exalted Deeds, Cityscape, Complete Arcane, Complete Champion, Complete Psionic, Complete Divine, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Complete Warrior, Dragon Magic, Drow of the Underdark, Dungeonscape, Elder Evils, Exemplars of Evil, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Fiendish Codex I-II, Forstburn, Heroes of Horror, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Magic of Incarnum, Miniatures Handbook, Monster Manuals I, III-V, Planar Handbook, Players Handbook I-II, Races of Destiny/Stone/Dragon/Wild, Sandstorm, Stormwrack, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, Unearthed Arcana, Weapons of Legacy 

Thats everything and yes they're organised alphabetically because I'm OCD lol 
Alrighty... How do you feel about multiclassing, and does your group use XP penalties for lack of favored class?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Oh, and are you open to changing your ability scores around?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Oh, and are you open to changing your ability scores around?

He shouldn't need to change ability scores around unless you really think he needs more INT.  Even if they aren't as "efficient" as they could be they the "weak" scores already have the kind of score I'd put into them if I needed them.  Sorry if I have something against rolling but with those stats you could almost make two characters.

 
Improved Trip requires Combat Expertise, and therefore Int 13. I'm trying to cover my bases beforehand.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I would probably switch int and cha or wis (depends on what you want to lose/benefit from)
I would probably switch int and cha or wis (depends on what you want to lose/benefit from)

Wis would the best one to drop, IIRC, given that there are more uses, including will saves, and I believe, although I haven't played a crusader, so my memory may be faulty, they have some DC thingy based on Cha.

And, yes, I do love commas, in a purely platonic fashion. 
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
There's only one Devoted Spirit maneuver with a save that's actually good enough to use. I'd recommend CHA, but that's just me.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls