Getting back into D&D after a long hiatus and was look to peach a few chars

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Hi,
It has been along time since i have played D&D and 2 friends of mine are rolling up some separate campaigns, both appear to run low magic(items) and i rolled up some chars that I will be playing in heroic.

this char is just somethign i thought would be fun running in a world of my DMs making.
ranger|cleric
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
 Rengar Dawnsblood, level 2
Longtooth Shifter, Cleric/Ranger
Hybrid Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Sohei

FINAL ABILITY SCORES STR 18, CON 13, DEX 14, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES STR 16, CON 13, DEX 14, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 8

AC: 20 Fort: 15 Ref: 14 Will: 15
HP: 40 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +12, Insight +9, Nature +9, Perception +9

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +1, Bluff +0, Diplomacy +0, Dungeoneering +4, Endurance +4, Heal +4, History +1, Intimidate +0, Religion +1, Stealth +3, Streetwise +0, Thievery +3

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Sohei Attack: Sohei Flurry
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Cleric Attack 1: Brand of the Sun
Cleric Attack 1: Mighty Hew
Cleric Attack 1: Moment of Glory
Ranger Utility 2: Invigorating Stride

FEATS
Level 1: Light Blade Expertise
Level 2: Two-Weapon Fighting

ITEMS
Scale Armor x1
Holy Symbol x1
Rapier x2
Short Sword x2
Longbow
Arrow 
Adventurer's Kit
====== End ======




This next chars is for a friends Dark sun world.

Wizard(arcanist)
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
tzlak, level 1
Human, Wizard (Arcanist)
Arcane Implement Mastery Option: Orb of Imposition
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Dark Sun
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Blackstaff Apprentice

FINAL ABILITY SCORES STR 8, CON 10, DEX 12, INT 20, WIS 13, CHA 11

STARTING ABILITY SCORES STR 8, CON 10, DEX 12, INT 18, WIS 13, CHA 11

AC: 15 Fort: 11 Ref: 16 Will: 14
HP: 30 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +10, History +10, Insight +6, Nature +6, Religion +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Athletics –1, Bluff +0, Diplomacy +0, Dungeoneering +1, Endurance +0, Heal +1, Intimidate +0, Perception +1, Stealth +1, Streetwise +0, Thievery +1

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee
Basic Attack Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Wizard Utility: Chameleon's Mask
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Utility: Spook
Wizard Utility: Suggestion
Wild Talent Cantrip: Psionic Spark
: Arcane Defiling
Wizard Attack 1: Magic Missile
Wizard Attack 1: Horrid Whispers
Wizard Attack 1: Hypnotism
Wizard Attack 1: Beguiling Strands
Wizard Attack 1: Charm of Misplaced Wrath
Wizard Attack 1: Phantom Chasm

FEATS
Level 1: Orb Expertise
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Crystal orb)

ITEMS
Spellbook
Create Campsite
Tenser's Floating Disk
Purify Water
Crystal orb x1
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) x1
====== End ======


both are made to the best of my knowledge for fun and a different feel, any suggestions to either would be much appreciated.

Thx for the help
Karjak 


Your ranger doesn't want either of those feats. Since you're not a race with a racial weapon training, take Light Blade Expertise and go rapier+shortsword, you'll do more damage. For the second feat, take Cunning Stalker.

The Mage is extremely straightforward but fine.
so you think I'm burning feats for no reason, especially with getting the bastard swords and is just too much investment for the gains ? and as for cunning stalker i think that is a great feat that i would love to try but it might be difficult to meet the reqs as our party currently has 8 members.
Bastard Swords are rarely worth it. It costs you a feat and doesn't increase your accuracy nor give you a worthwhile boost to damage.  
taking your advise and assuming bastard swords are not worth it, would it even make sense to Hybrid Talent Option: Ranger Fighting Style 
Ranger, Fighting Style Option: Two-Blade Fighting Style (Hybrid) into rapiers vs just taking the short sword ?

p.s. sry for all the questions I'm curious. 
How do you as an Arcanist get Heroic Effort and three At-Will powers?

Enchanter Mage is the better option
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

And refluff Renegade Red Wizard as your theme.
Light blade expertise is better than WP.  The hybird talent feat for two blade style isn't a bad use of a feat, but its not a great one.   Your character looks tough enough and can self heal three different ways so the toughness boost is not essential and a little bit more damage off hand is not worth it. 

There are probably better ranger feats out there since most of the good cleric specific ones won't help you that much.  Your power selection is good.
Raegoul I get magic missle from  Blackstaff Apprentice theme(changed to fit dark sun) and it gives me a range basic attack and mm usable once pre encounter as a minor.

GelatinousOctahedron, i agree with you and others and will change my original post to relex that ty for the heads up. 
so you think I'm burning feats for no reason, especially with getting the bastard swords and is just too much investment for the gains ? and as for cunning stalker i think that is a great feat that i would love to try but it might be difficult to meet the reqs as our party currently has 8 members.



Yep. If you're going to take a hybrid talent as a Ranger|Cleric, it's either to meet a paragon path requirement, Prime Shot to get access to Called Shot, or Channel Divinity for a "Cleric Encounter Attack", since that lets you dump all your leveled Cleric encounter powers for more Ranger goodies.
+1 for dumping the bastard sword and hybrid talent feat. Rapier + shortsword or doublesword would be ideal. Doublesword is nice because you only have to maintain one weapon, which is much cheaper.
Hybrid talent for Favor of the Gods could also be worth taking if he wants to focus more on helping allies and if he has minor actions left over, but there is a good chance he won't have that many minor actions free after a few more levels.

You also might consider weapon of astral flame for your level 1 daily.
original post edited to reflect changes,

Weapon if astral flame is the better daily for a striker no question, but i have had Moment of glory save us from a possible wipe, i think maybe i will retain into that in a few lvls.

Thank you all for the help.

p.s. how do you copy paste the damn char summary with the correct formatting argh >_<
Raegoul I get magic missle from  Blackstaff Apprentice theme(changed to fit dark sun) and it gives me a range basic attack and mm usable once pre encounter as a minor. 


Ah so you chose your theme to get Magic Missile. Are you aiming to be a generalist Wizard, because you Wisdom is a little low for the Imposition and Hypnotism may not be the best choice if you are not going to be Charm optimised. Your builds seems a little unfocused.

The Wizard(mage) gets Magic Missile for free and then you can pick a better theme but I guess you're gonna say you want rituals.

I would say you need to pick what kind of control you want to aim for that and not try and be bit of everything.

Raegoul I get magic missle from  Blackstaff Apprentice theme(changed to fit dark sun) and it gives me a range basic attack and mm usable once pre encounter as a minor. 


Ah so you chose your theme to get Magic Missile. Are you aiming to be a generalist Wizard, because you Wisdom is a little low for the Imposition and Hypnotism may not be the best choice if you are not going to be Charm optimised. Your builds seems a little unfocused.

The Wizard(mage) gets Magic Missile for free and then you can pick a better theme but I guess you're gonna say you want rituals.

I would say you need to pick what kind of control you want to aim for that and not try and be bit of everything.





The rituals were kinda of a selling point as i think purify water and some other things are basically gold for my friends dark sun.

as far as my wisdom score i really was having trouble distributing my stats beyond primary i couldn't really deiced on secondary (would love a suggestion) i basically have the wis 13 for enlarge spell, i think i will take your advise and drop hypnotism for winged horde and if not for imposition do you suggest a change of implement ? If i had to pick a aim I don't really know which direction i would go(maybe illusion or charm) as I saw no benefit to specialize as a Arcanist (i could be dead wrong in this point), if i was in fact to go charm the mage build you suggested earlier seems much better suited to do so. The MM just kinda got picked up for the 2 MM i could cast at that opening round (range 20) before they close to range 10 and i can start to work on them.

The rituals were kinda of a selling point as i think purify water and some other things are basically gold for my friends dark sun.

as far as my wisdom score i really was having trouble distributing my stats beyond primary i couldn't really deiced on secondary (would love a suggestion) i basically have the wis 13 for enlarge spell, i think i will take your advise and drop hypnotism for winged horde and if not for imposition do you suggest a change of implement ? If i had to pick a aim I don't really know which direction i would go(maybe illusion or charm) as I saw no benefit to specialize as a Arcanist (i could be dead wrong in this point), if i was in fact to go charm the mage build you suggested earlier seems much better suited to do so. The MM just kinda got picked up for the 2 MM i could cast at that opening round (range 20) before they close to range 10 and i can start to work on them.

Magic Missile is not good damage and it is not your job. Distances only matter when monsters are running away so who cares. 

Your wisdom score matters because of the Orb of Imposition feature. If you are going charm or illusion you need to debuff team monsters saves. Renegade Red Wizard + Mage is a better than Orb of Imposition.

Wizard is a powerful class but it has complex role, being a controller is not about damage it is about shutting team monster down in combat and minion popping. The are damage based builds but you need to be Genasi or Tiefling to make it work well.

Read these handbooks below it is worth the time and effort to understand how the Wizard works well.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... (has sample builds)
 The rituals were kinda of a selling point as i think purify water and some other things are basically gold for my friends dark sun.

as far as my wisdom score i really was having trouble distributing my stats beyond primary i couldn't really deiced on secondary (would love a suggestion) i basically have the wis 13 for enlarge spell, i think i will take your advise and drop hypnotism for winged horde and if not for imposition do you suggest a change of implement ? If i had to pick a aim I don't really know which direction i would go(maybe illusion or charm) as I saw no benefit to specialize as a Arcanist (i could be dead wrong in this point), if i was in fact to go charm the mage build you suggested earlier seems much better suited to do so. The MM just kinda got picked up for the 2 MM i could cast at that opening round (range 20) before they close to range 10 and i can start to work on them.


Magic Missile is not good damage and it is not your job. Distances only matter when monsters are running away so who cares. 

Your wisdom score matters because of the Orb of Imposition feature. If you are going charm or illusion you need to debuff team monster's saves. Renegade Red Wizard + Mage is better than Orb of Imposition.

Wizard is a powerful class but it has complex role, being a controller is not about damage it is about shutting team monster down in combat and minion popping. There are damage based builds but you need to be Genasi or Tiefling to make it work well.

Read these handbooks below it is worth the time and effort to understand how the Wizard works well.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... (has sample builds but they are a little dated)


 The rituals were kinda of a selling point as i think purify water and some other things are basically gold for my friends dark sun.

as far as my wisdom score i really was having trouble distributing my stats beyond primary i couldn't really deiced on secondary (would love a suggestion) i basically have the wis 13 for enlarge spell, i think i will take your advise and drop hypnotism for winged horde and if not for imposition do you suggest a change of implement ? If i had to pick a aim I don't really know which direction i would go(maybe illusion or charm) as I saw no benefit to specialize as a Arcanist (i could be dead wrong in this point), if i was in fact to go charm the mage build you suggested earlier seems much better suited to do so. The MM just kinda got picked up for the 2 MM i could cast at that opening round (range 20) before they close to range 10 and i can start to work on them.


Magic Missile is not good damage and it is not your job. Distances only matter when monsters are running away so who cares. 

Your wisdom score matters because of the Orb of Imposition feature. If you are going charm or illusion you need to debuff team monster's saves. Renegade Red Wizard + Mage is better than Orb of Imposition.

Wizard is a powerful class but it has complex role, being a controller is not about damage it is about shutting team monster down in combat and minion popping. There are damage based builds but you need to be Genasi or Tiefling to make it work well.

Read these handbooks below it is worth the time and effort to understand how the Wizard works well.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... (has sample builds but they are a little dated)







Ty Raegoul I'll look through the material and see what i can come up with.

I have been trying to slowly work through these characters to level 30 to make sure they have a clearly defined path, I have ran into quite a few snags such as I found no place to replace mighty hew where I didn’t want to grab a ranger encounter power instead so my level 30 build still has it, which I'm positive is a huge mistake.


 


I will be updating this as it is critique as well, as working to a playable build through the leveling process in my goal.





Ranger|Cleric
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Lvl 30 test build rengar, level 30
Longtooth Shifter, Cleric/Ranger, Paragon of Victory, Destined Scion
Hybrid Cleric Option: Battle Cleric's Lore
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Hybrid Talent Option: Ranger Combat Talent
Ranger Combat Talent Option: Prime Shot (Hybrid)
Epic Heroism Option: Strength
Epic Heroism Option: Dexterity
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Sohei

FINAL ABILITY SCORES STR 28, CON 15, DEX 20, INT 12, WIS 22, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES STR 16, CON 13, DEX 14, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 8

AC: 35 Fort: 34 Ref: 35 Will: 36
HP: 185 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 46

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +31, Insight +28, Nature +26, Perception +28

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +20, Arcana +16, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +21, Endurance +19, Heal +21, History +16, Intimidate +15, Religion +16, Stealth +20, Streetwise +15, Thievery +20

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Sohei Attack: Sohei Flurry
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Cleric Attack 1: Brand of the Sun
Cleric Attack 1: Mighty Hew
Ranger Utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Cleric Utility 6: Stream of Life
Cleric Utility 10: Word of Vigor
Paragon of Victory Attack 11: Fanatic Energy
Paragon of Victory Utility 12: Battle Resolve
Ranger Attack 15: Blade Cascade
Cleric Utility 16: Cloak of Courage
Paragon of Victory Attack 20: Victory Prayer
Ranger Utility 22: Master of the Hunt
Ranger Attack 23: Nonchalant Collapse
Cleric Attack 25: Righteous Might
Destined Scion Utility 26: Epic Recovery
Ranger Attack 27: Death Rend
Ranger Attack 29: Weave a Web of Steel
Destined Scion Utility 30: Undeniable Victory

FEATS
Level 1: Light Blade Expertise
Level 2: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Light blade)
Level 6: Spiked Chain Training
Level 8: Swift Blade Style
Level 10: Hybrid Talent
Level 11: Prime Punisher
Level 12: Called Shot
Level 14: Armor Specialization (Scale)
Level 16: Two-Weapon Opening
Level 18: Superior Reflexes
Level 20: Superior Will
Level 21: Rending Tempest
Level 22: Martial Mastery
Level 24: Flail Mastery
Level 26: Slashing Storm
Level 28: Improved Prime Shot
Level 30: Triumphant Attack

ITEMS
Scale Armor x1
Holy Symbol x1
Adventurer's Kit
Spiked chain x1

====== End ======


Wizard
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======

lvl 30 test run Ticzal, level 30
Human, Wizard (Arcanist), Adroit Explorer, Sage of Ages
Arcane Implement Mastery Option: Orb of Imposition
Ambitious Effort Option: Ambitious Effort New Power
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Dark Sun
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Order Adept

FINAL ABILITY SCORES STR 10, CON 12, DEX 14, INT 28, WIS 21, CHA 13

STARTING ABILITY SCORES STR 8, CON 10, DEX 12, INT 18, WIS 13, CHA 11

AC: 36 Fort: 31 Ref: 39 Will: 39
HP: 154 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 38

TRAINED SKILLS Arcana +41, History +35, Insight +25, Nature +31, Religion +35

UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +17, Athletics +15, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +16, Dungeoneering +26, Endurance +16, Heal +20, Intimidate +16, Perception +20, Stealth +17, Streetwise +16, Thievery +17

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Order Adept Attack: Argent Rain
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Wizard Utility: Chameleon's Mask
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Utility: Spook
Wizard Utility: Suggestion
Wild Talent Cantrip: Psionic Spark : Arcane Defiling
Wizard Attack 1: Hypnotism
Wizard Attack 1: Beguiling Strands
Wizard Utility 2: Jump
Wizard Utility 2: Moonstride
Wizard Utility 2: Shield
Order Adept Utility 6: Far Reaching
Wizard Utility 6: Emerald Eye
Wizard Utility 10: Mass Resistance
Wizard Utility 10: Illusory Wall
Adroit Explorer Utility 12: Destined for Greatness
Wizard Attack 13: Prismatic Burst
Insight Utility 16: Insightful Riposte
Wizard Utility 16: Flame's Protection
Wizard Attack 17: Mass Charm
Wizard Attack 19: Summon Rockfire Dreadnought
Wizard Attack 19: Wrath of Battle
Adroit Explorer Attack 20: Bloodied Greatness
Wizard Utility 22: Time Stop
Wizard Utility 22: Wraithform
Wizard Attack 23: Animate Shadows
Wizard Attack 25: Bewitching Gaze
Wizard Attack 25: Phantom Reality
Sage of Ages Utility 26: Trick of Knowledge
Wizard Attack 27: Steal Time
Wizard Attack 29: Visions of Wrath
Wizard Attack 29: False Reality

FEATS
Level 1: Orb Expertise
Level 1: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Crystal orb)
Level 2: Improved Initiative
Level 4: Unarmored Agility
Level 6: Enlarge Spell
Level 8: Superior Will
Level 10: White Lotus Riposte
Level 11: Danger Sense
Level 12: Psychic Lock
Level 14: White Lotus Master Riposte
Level 16: Arcane Familiar
Level 18: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 20: Implement Focus (Orb)
Level 21: Arcane Mastery
Level 22: Quickened Spellcasting
Level 24: Superior Initiative
Level 26: Epic Fortitude
Level 28: Epic Reflexes
Level 30: Epic Resurgence

ITEMS
Spellbook
Create Campsite
Tenser's Floating Disk
Purify Water Crystal
orb x1
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) x1
Enchant Magic Item
Knock
Raise Dead
Passwall
Control Weather
Planar Portal
Succor
Disenchant Magic Item
Create Tree of Life
Ease Spirit
====== End ======
updated with rough outlines of both.
Your ranger | cleric is looking good.  Though you should know that when you're using the spiked chain as a double weapon it is no longer considered a flail, it's a two headed light blade weapon.  You can switch back to using it as a two handed flail if you want, but then all your light blade feats no longer affect it and you lose the stout property.  The reason I bring this up is because you took Flail Mastery in epic.

Oh and also, here's a gift:

 
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Your ranger | cleric is looking good.  Though you should know that when you're using the spiked chain as a double weapon it is no longer considered a flail, it's a two headed light blade weapon.  You can switch back to using it as a two handed flail if you want, but then all your light blade feats no longer affect it and you lose the stout property.  The reason I bring this up is because you took Flail Mastery in epic.

Oh and also, here's a gift:

 



Noc i looked through the rules forum a little and all i found reguarding that was

Nothing about the qualities the feat provides are mutually exclusive with the original weapon qualities though, so the feat would have to explicitly state that it stops being a flail with reach in order for it to lose the qualities.

ETV

I can use the same reasoning as you and say that the feat doesn't say the weapon gains or adds those properties, the feat tells you what the weapon IS, which as a statement of being does exclude anything not listed.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Terrible wording and interaction between feats and a argument not worth having on the forums. As anyone will and should say Expect Table Variance. Just ask your DM how they want to work it.