Very early (too early = P) Top Ten lists...your thoughts are wanted!

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Commons (in no particular order)

1.Angelic Edict  Extemely useful removal
2.Cloudfin Raptor  Great Simic card
3.Hands of Binding Essential Dimir card.
4.Shadow Alley Denizen Another really strong Dimir card.
5.Ivy Lane Denizen This guy will be under-valued at first.
6.Kingpin's Pet I really like this card for Orzhov
7.Skyknight Legionnaire Just solid
8.Wojek Halberdiers Scary battalion card.
9.Zhur-Taa Swine Super solid core Gruul card
10.Prophetic Prism This will be really useful!

Uncommons:

1.Dimir Keyrune Dimir needs cards like this and it will be sought after in draft.
2.Zameck Guildmage duh
3.Vizkopa Guildmage Makes extort ridiculous, this guy is going to be scary in the way rix maadi guildmage was.
4.Urban Evolution Draw three cards and play a land...yes please!
5.Skarrg Guildmage This guy will be nice for when you are top decking. Pump your lands and send them in
6.One thousand lashes Arrest/Stab Wound hybrid
7.Nimbus SwimmerHuge flier at uncommon
8.Aetherize This may also be under-rated but not for too long.
9.Elusive Krasis Pretty obvious
10.Boros Charm Best charm

(Wow there were A LOT of uncommons that I could have put on this list!)

Rares:

1.Nightveil Specter
2.RubbleHulk
3.Obzedat, Ghost Council
4.Master Biomancer
5.deathpact Angel
6.Consuming aberration
7.Aurelia, the warleader
8.Angelic Skirmisher
9.Aurelia's fury
10.Alms Beast

This is a very early first look from my opint of view, there were several cards I wasn't rock-solid on.

What do you guys think?
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
Again, haven't got time for a full post but Orzhov Charm may be one of the best cards in the set, period and is, in my opinion, easily the best uncommon.  Kill any creature for ?
Uncommons:

1.Dimir Keyrune Dimir needs cards like this and it will be sought after in draft.
2.Zameck Guildmage duh
3.Vizkopa Guildmage Makes extort ridiculous, this guy is going to be scary in the way rix maadi guildmage was.
4.Urban Evolution Draw three cards and play a land...yes please!
5.Skarrg Guildmage This guy will be nice for when you are top decking. Pump your lands and send them in
6.One thousand lashes Arrest/Stab Wound hybrid
7.Nimbus SwimmerHuge flier at uncommon
8.Aetherize This may also be under-rated but not for too long.
9.Elusive Krasis Pretty obvious
10.Boros Charm Best charm

(Wow there were A LOT of uncommons that I could have put on this list!)

What do you guys think?

You forgot the 4cmc uncommon read green 4/4 creature, bloodrush 2cmc... with TRAMPLE.
Guardian of the Gateless would be in my top 10 uncommons. I think Rubblebelt Raiders or Assemble the Legion could be in the top 10 rares. I also think Madcap Skills is going to be pretty great in limited.

"This list much made Niche barf a lil' in his mouth, so I can be proud of that." -rstnme

Guardian of the Gateless would be in my top 10 uncommons. I think Rubblebelt Raiders or Assemble the Legion could be in the top 10 rares. I also think Madcap Skills is going to be pretty great in limited.

Totally agree with the Guardian of the Gateless. I would put it in TOP5. It's nearly impossible to attack into it profitably. It can wreck a full army by itself. Add a Furious Resistance to it and your opponent will scoop.

I think your commons list is great. Maybe a numbers 11 and 12 honorable mentions would be basilica guards and syndic of tithes, I see them as essential orzhov cards to help survive early aggressive decks, which will be common.
Shadow lane denizen does not belong in the top 10, and neither do aetherize or vizkopa guildmage, denizen because dimir doesn't run that many creatures, aetherize because it's a purely defensive bounce spell, and vizkopa guildmage because Orzhov doesn't beat down that often.

Oh yeah, and you missed orzhov charm and bane alley broker. 

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
Shadow lane denizen does not belong in the top 10, and neither do aetherize or vizkopa guildmage, denizen because dimir doesn't run that many creatures, aetherize because it's a purely defensive bounce spell, and vizkopa guildmage because Orzhov doesn't beat down that often.

Oh yeah, and you missed orzhov charm and bane alley broker. 



I wouldn't include Bane alley broker.

Orzhou Charm is definetely a great card, I was hoping to highlight great cards that people aren't looking at as well.

Shadow Lane Denizen will be a really good Dimir card.

I (as well as some pretty strong pros) really like aetherize.

VIzkopa guildmage will be MUCH more powerful than you think, Orzhov doesn't need to do any "beating" for this mage to be ridiculous.

bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
I think Gridlock fares better than Aetherize for the offensive utility.

I think Orzhov Keyrune is a runner for one of the top uncommons, depending on how much support bleeder actually has in order to become a strong strategy.

Ghor-Clan Rampager is almost as strong as Rubblehulk due to passing Trample along with +4/+4.  Doubling up on those guys is going to win games.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
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Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
I think Gridlock fares better than Aetherize for the offensive utility.

I think Orzhov Keyrune is a runner for one of the top uncommons, depending on how much support bleeder actually has in order to become a strong strategy.

Ghor-Clan Rampager is almost as strong as Rubblehulk due to passing Trample along with +4/+4.  Doubling up on those guys is going to win games.



I think you're right about Ghor-Clan Rampager he's very solid. The uncommons are really strong in this set, so forgive me throwing ten out there, it's pretty easy to nit pick it but that's sort of what i wanted you guys to do anyway and help with some of your own ideas.

I think people are really underestimating Aetherize its going to wreck havoc on Gruul (blodrush), Dimir (ciphered creatures) and Simic(creatures with counters) plus you need the mana and time to recast them all!

bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
100% agree about aetherize, from the moment I saw it I knew it was brutal
I think people are really underestimating Aetherize its going to wreck havoc on Gruul (blodrush), Dimir (ciphered creatures) and Simic(creatures with counters) plus you need the mana and time to recast them all!


Don't get me wrong, I think it's good, and possibly deserves a top 10 spot of its own accord.

But Aetherize is mostly* a defensive stall tactic or a balancing effect, and generally still leaves them with at least one blocker.  Gridlock is a finisher.

*Yes, if it wraps back to your turn, and you've got the board presense, and you have the ability to push past what they have left, it's also a finisher.  But Gridlock probably finishes more often.  I think they are both quite strong.

Somnia, the Evanescent Plane -- A 3-set Block
Set 1 — Somnia
Set 2 — TBD
Set 3 — TBD
Planeswalker's Guide to Somnia

Build Around This
A weekly MTG Cards and Combos forum game.
Build Around This #1 - Sage's Starfish Wish
BAT #1 was built using the Legacy format with Spiny Starfish, Sage's Knowledge, and Make a Wish. Winner: Dilleux_Lepaire with Fishy Starfishies. Runner-Up: JBTM
Shadow lane denizen does not belong in the top 10, and neither do aetherize or vizkopa guildmage, denizen because dimir doesn't run that many creatures, aetherize because it's a purely defensive bounce spell, and vizkopa guildmage because Orzhov doesn't beat down that often.

Oh yeah, and you missed orzhov charm and bane alley broker. 



I wouldn't include Bane alley broker.

Orzhou Charm is definetely a great card, I was hoping to highlight great cards that people aren't looking at as well.

Shadow Lane Denizen will be a really good Dimir card.

I (as well as some pretty strong pros) really like aetherize.

VIzkopa guildmage will be MUCH more powerful than you think, Orzhov doesn't need to do any "beating" for this mage to be ridiculous.



Please explain why you hold these beliefs.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl

Please explain why you hold these beliefs.



I too am confused about some of these beliefs.  Bane Alley Broker is an amazing card.  It's a looter that can block 2/Xs and get you back the cards you lost while looting.  Should be quite good. 

Also, if you're going to make a top 10 list, why not put the actual top 10 rather than the ones "people aren't looking at"?  Suffice to say, Orzhov Charm should be on there.

I agree that Shadow Alley Denizen will be a good cipher enabler.  Too bad most of the cipher cards aren't very playable...

I also agree that Aetherize will be one of the best uncommons in the set.

I'm confused what you think Vizkopa Guildmage is going to do for limited.  I mean Alabaster Mage was okay, sometimes good, but not amazing.  And I don't see the second ability making much of a splash at least in limited.  Maybe in combos in other formats, but thats about it.  Definitely not comparable to Rix Maadi Guildmage.
I really don't get why people think aetherize is good.  Can someone please explain it to me?  Ditto for shadow alley denizen, so many of your guys have evasion already, and it won't trigger that often, or for that much benefit.  You should be ciphering onto guys with built in evasion, not hoping to have enough black guys to get through consistently.  And 1/1s for 1 in limited are generally pretty crappy without strong abilities.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
I really don't get why people think aetherize is good.  Can someone please explain it to me?  Ditto for shadow alley denizen, so many of your guys have evasion already, and it won't trigger that often, or for that much benefit.  You should be ciphering onto guys with built in evasion, not hoping to have enough black guys to get through consistently.  And 1/1s for 1 in limited are generally pretty crappy without strong abilities.



Because it's a response to Gruul's bloodrush, it resets Simic's Evolve counters, and it gets rid of Cipher cards, and it kills tokens. All good things. It looks like you playtested a lot of Orzhov, which this card is actually terrible against, since you get to recast all those spells and extort them to death, so maybe that's why you think it's no good?

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I think Aetherize will end up being pretty good as well since it has the ability to shut down an alpha strike from other guilds. Keep in mind though it only effects attacking creatures and it costs four, making it pretty easy to play around, in much the same way Avenging Arrow was. Only bad opponents are going to attack with their whole team and risk getting Aetherized if you have four open with a U. I think it still has some utility, but it is best used in a situation where you are racing against a couple flyers or something and slowing them down a couple turns will win the race for you. Or free wins vs. bads.

EDIT: I don't think it's bad, but not top 10. 
I really don't get why people think aetherize is good.  Can someone please explain it to me?  Ditto for shadow alley denizen, so many of your guys have evasion already, and it won't trigger that often, or for that much benefit.  You should be ciphering onto guys with built in evasion, not hoping to have enough black guys to get through consistently.  And 1/1s for 1 in limited are generally pretty crappy without strong abilities.



Because it's a response to Gruul's bloodrush, it resets Simic's Evolve counters, and it gets rid of Cipher cards, and it kills tokens. All good things. It looks like you playtested a lot of Orzhov, which this card is actually terrible against, since you get to recast all those spells and extort them to death, so maybe that's why you think it's no good?


Bloodrush:  who bloodrushes into 4 open mana and cards in hand?  Srsly.
Evolve:  but won't replaying the creatures put evolve counters back on fromt he etb triggers?
Cipher:  is bad.  I'm serious, it's bad.
tokens:  knight watch is the only playable common token maker.
Finally, leaving 4 mana up is a huuuuge telegraph for this, it's going to be card disadvantage, and it's a tempo spell that only works when you're behind.  So, in conclusion, this card is usually bad, but in situations in which the game becomes a full-on race (read:  dimir vs anything), it could come in from the board.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
I really don't get why people think aetherize is good.  Can someone please explain it to me?  Ditto for shadow alley denizen, so many of your guys have evasion already, and it won't trigger that often, or for that much benefit.  You should be ciphering onto guys with built in evasion, not hoping to have enough black guys to get through consistently.  And 1/1s for 1 in limited are generally pretty crappy without strong abilities.



Because it's a response to Gruul's bloodrush, it resets Simic's Evolve counters, and it gets rid of Cipher cards, and it kills tokens. All good things. It looks like you playtested a lot of Orzhov, which this card is actually terrible against, since you get to recast all those spells and extort them to death, so maybe that's why you think it's no good?


Bloodrush:  who bloodrushes into 4 open mana and cards in hand?  Srsly.
Evolve:  but won't replaying the creatures put evolve counters back on fromt he etb triggers?
Cipher:  is bad.  I'm serious, it's bad.
tokens:  knight watch is the only playable common token maker.
Finally, leaving 4 mana up is a huuuuge telegraph for this, it's going to be card disadvantage, and it's a tempo spell that only works when you're behind.  So, in conclusion, this card is usually bad, but in situations in which the game becomes a full-on race (read:  dimir vs anything), it could come in from the board.



Bloodrush: I'd bloodrush a cheapy into 4 open mana to see what they do. You can't not attack because they have mana open. And I'd keep doing that as I built up my board position and started being able to play my fatties hard-casted and not blood-rushed. So against me, this card would force a couple of creatures back into my hand and I might lose a bloodrush. It won't stop me necessarily, but it will disrupt my tempo.

Evolve:  Part of evolve is playing early and into a curve, meaning you'll have to take some hits in the beginning... at least that's how I see it. The only way to play around this is to attack with your fatty alone, forcing them to chump or cast this, which you can then reuse to fatten your evolve creatures. But, an evolve board alpha-striking into this is pretty much ruined.

Cipher: I'm not going to argue with you there, but this card still goes 1-for-1 against every Cipher card.

Tokens: Yeah, but there are still other token makers.

Hm. On second thought, there are really only two common scenarios you'd play this: in the mid-game to get board advantage, and your opponent can just skip the attack phase and actually get board advantage while you sit there and stare at your 4 open mana.

Or during the end of G1 or G3, when they don't know you have it and you flub their alpha strike.

Or it's good SB tech against creature auras.

:P

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.


Bloodrush:  who bloodrushes into 4 open mana and cards in hand?  Srsly.
Evolve:  but won't replaying the creatures put evolve counters back on fromt he etb triggers?
Cipher:  is bad.  I'm serious, it's bad.
tokens:  knight watch is the only playable common token maker.
Finally, leaving 4 mana up is a huuuuge telegraph for this, it's going to be card disadvantage, and it's a tempo spell that only works when you're behind.  So, in conclusion, this card is usually bad, but in situations in which the game becomes a full-on race (read:  dimir vs anything), it could come in from the board.



I don't think anyone is going to be leaving Aetherize in the board.  I think it will be picked early and maindecked by those that pick it.  I mean there's an entire guild mechanic which revolves around attacking with 3 or more creatures.  If you hit a Boros Battalion attack with Aetherize, you're gonna be at a huge advantage.

Also, your reasoning for why Aetherize isn't good against Simic is positively ridiculous.  "Oh, they'll just replay their creatures".  Why play any bounce ever, right?  'Cause they'll just replay them.  Yes, they will replay their possible 3+ creatures you bounced.  They will replay them 1 or more turns and a lot of mana spent later.
Commons:
Angelic Edict
Basilica Guards
Pit Fight
Grisly Spectacle
Act of Treason
Mugging
Smite
Skyknight Legionnaire
Crocanura
Kingpin's Pet

Uncommons:
Zameck Guildmage
Guardian of the Gateless
Killing Glare
Firefist Striker
Knight of Obligation
Ghor-Clan Rampager
One Thousand Lashes
Truefire Paladin
Orzhov Charm
Bane Alley Broker

Rare:
Aurelia's Fury
Deathpact Angel
Frontline Medic
Prime Speaker Zegana
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Firemane Avenger
Soul Ransom
Master Biomancer
Domri Rade
Clan Defiance

Rough guesses, obviously.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
Rstnme:  sorry I didn't quote you, but that was a massive quote stack and I don't want to make it any bigger.  I'll respond to your comments though.

Bloodrushing into open mana is typically a bad idea.  Maybe you would make that play, but in most cases, I don't think most players will.  When someone leaves up 4 mana, you should just stack more dudes on the board instead of risking a blowout.
If they're attacking with 1 guy, this really isn't that much of a blowout.  If you bounce all their guys, if they replay them in the right order, they'll get their counters back, sometimes even more because they get to play the creatures in the order they want, not the order they were drawn in.
As for cipher, it doesn't really go 1 for 1.  I still get the bonus from initially casting the spell, and since you aren't going to leave this up vs an unciphered guy in most cases, I'll often get to cast it from cipher on the turn I play it, before you get a chance to untap.
As I said, the common token makers aren't really a big deal, since this isn't the set with selesnya.  At common, there's just beckon apparition (which I don't actually think is playable, and which doesn't give you too much of an advantage to aetherize) and knight watch, and I don't think 1 common token maker in the whole set should factor that much into your decision to run this or not.

My overall problem with this card is that it's a tempo card, but it's also suffers from several issues.  First of all, you have to leave up mana for this and hope they play into it, which they won't necessarily do.  Second, if they're attacking you with lots of guys, which is when this is good, that usually means that you're behind, and can't really capitalize on the tempo.  That's why I really don't like this card.  The one situation in which I could see it played is one in which they are attacking you, but you can still capitalize on the tempo.  The situation where I see this happening is in Dimir, where neither side can effectively block the other side (because your guys are bad at blocking, or because their guys have evasion), so the game turns into a race.  If you're playing a Dimir deck with a bunch of evasive guys, this card could be mdable, but don't jam it into every blue deck.

Bloodrush:  who bloodrushes into 4 open mana and cards in hand?  Srsly.
Evolve:  but won't replaying the creatures put evolve counters back on fromt he etb triggers?
Cipher:  is bad.  I'm serious, it's bad.
tokens:  knight watch is the only playable common token maker.
Finally, leaving 4 mana up is a huuuuge telegraph for this, it's going to be card disadvantage, and it's a tempo spell that only works when you're behind.  So, in conclusion, this card is usually bad, but in situations in which the game becomes a full-on race (read:  dimir vs anything), it could come in from the board.



I don't think anyone is going to be leaving Aetherize in the board.  I think it will be picked early and maindecked by those that pick it.  I mean there's an entire guild mechanic which revolves around attacking with 3 or more creatures.  If you hit a Boros Battalion attack with Aetherize, you're gonna be at a huge advantage.

Also, your reasoning for why Aetherize isn't good against Simic is positively ridiculous.  "Oh, they'll just replay their creatures".  Why play any bounce ever, right?  'Cause they'll just replay them.  Yes, they will replay their possible 3+ creatures you bounced.  They will replay them 1 or more turns and a lot of mana spent later.


1:  Bouncing 3 boros guys with this puts you a card behind for very little.  Boros guys are fairly cheap on average, and they'll likely only have to spend 6-7 mana to replay them.

2:  My comment on the simic was in response to someone saying that it undoes the evolve counters.  Obviously there's still the bounce thing, but it does no more than bouncing ordinary guys. 

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl

1:  Bouncing 3 boros guys with this puts you a card behind for very little.  Boros guys are fairly cheap on average, and they'll likely only have to spend 6-7 mana to replay them.

2:  My comment on the simic was in response to someone saying that it undoes the evolve counters.  Obviously there's still the bounce thing, but it does no more than bouncing ordinary guys. 




Still not really understanding your logic:

1.  Boros is very aggro and trying to kill you quickly, as they won't fare as well late game.  If you bounce 3 of their guys, you have negated one attack (the one where you bounced), a second attack (when the replayed guys have summoning sickness), plus you've caused them to spend 6-7 mana which otherwise would have been used on more ways to kill you faster.  Now you've survived further into the late game where you stand a better chance. So.... this puts you behind how?

2. "it does no more than bouncing ordinary guys".  Sure it bounces just the same, but when compared to the bounce of say Simic Charm, this has the potential to bounce 3 or more guys with one card.  How can you not see/appreciate the power of that?  Used at certain times, it will be almost like an uncommon Cyclonic Rift 

1:  Bouncing 3 boros guys with this puts you a card behind for very little.  Boros guys are fairly cheap on average, and they'll likely only have to spend 6-7 mana to replay them.

2:  My comment on the simic was in response to someone saying that it undoes the evolve counters.  Obviously there's still the bounce thing, but it does no more than bouncing ordinary guys. 




Still not really understanding your logic:

1.  Boros is very aggro and trying to kill you quickly, as they won't fare as well late game.  If you bounce 3 of their guys, you have negated one attack (the one where you bounced), a second attack (when the replayed guys have summoning sickness), plus you've caused them to spend 6-7 mana which otherwise would have been used on more ways to kill you faster.  Now you've survived further into the late game where you stand a better chance. So.... this puts you behind how?

2. "it does no more than bouncing ordinary guys".  Sure it bounces just the same, but when compared to the bounce of say Simic Charm, this has the potential to bounce 3 or more guys with one card.  How can you not see/appreciate the power of that?  Used at certain times, it will be almost like an uncommon Cyclonic Rift 


I said this puts you a card behind.  How?  It's pretty simple:
1:  this is a card that you expend to cast the spell.
2:  you do not negate 1 or more of your opponent's cards
As for what you're saying about boros, you are also spending a turn on this.  The difference, of course, is that they aren't spending a card.

As for this compared to other bounces, do you know when bounce spells are good?  They're good when you're ahead and you can use them to stay ahead while you use your board advantage to get in damage.  This doesn't do that.  Why?  Because they don't attack you when they're ahead.  And don't compare this to cyclonic rift.  With rift you can bounce all their guys and attack with all of yours into an empty board.  With this, you won't bounce any  blockers. 

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
So basically I can have nothing in my hand but land and leave four mana up and you wont attack into me with your board because I might have Aetherize?? I gotta say that's a lot of fear for a card you say isn't very good.
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
So basically I can have nothing in my hand but land and leave four mana up and you wont attack into me with your board because I might have Aetherize?? I gotta say that's a lot of fear for a card you say isn't very good.


Lategame, I'll do it.  But when your opponent just randomly leaves mana up early-mid game, they probably have a trap.  And maybe I will attack, but I definitely won't bloodrush.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl