Opponent stating "Before you said done" legality?

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I have been playing MtG for awhile, but there seems to be a recent trend of this.  

As soon as my turn is over and I state go ahead to my opponent they will state "before  you said done" and proceed to activate a bunch of either creature abilities, or instants if they have mana available.  They will then untap everything for the beginning of their turn and proceed with the regular turn.

At what point does my turn actually end, or can they just back everything up and say "before you said done?"  

Also, if they say this (and it is legal), isn't it then still my turn, so I can still perform normal activities in response to his actions?

Thanks!
You saying "done" is offering a shortcut to pass priority to the beginning of your opponents turn. Your opponent, yes, is allowed to interupt that shortcut and take actions during any of the phases of your turn you offered to skip. Normaly, the opponent will act durring your end-step, which means you will no longer be able to cast a creature or sorcery, but you can still respond with instant spells or activated abilities. 
"Before you said done" is not possible. What he actually meant was "before your turn is over", which in turn means "in your end step", and that's perfectly legal.

MTG is a turn-based game; it's not a game of chicken. When you say "go", you are actually proposing a shortcut for all players to pass priority until a new turn starts. They can accept that shortcut in full, accept it up to a point, or refuse it entirely. "In your end step, I do X" means they accepted your shortcut until the point where they have priority in your end step.

You are bound by your shortcut up to the point where it is interrupted, but you are free to do as you wish afterwards. As such, you can respond to to his spell and/or cast one of your own after his resolves.

The turn ends after both player pass priority in the end step and the stack is empty, then the cleanup step happens without anything happening there.



What you're doing is called a shortcut: you're basically saying you'll pass priority each step until your turn ends, and expect the opponent to do the same.
Your opponent can interrupt this shortcut, essentially saying he will keep priority at your turn's End Step and do something there (cast an instant spell, activate some ability...). With your shortcut interrupted, you can respond to whatever spells or ability he's playing.

[<o>]
You saying "done" is offering a shortcut to pass priority to the beginning of your opponents turn. Your opponent, yes, is allowed to interupt that shortcut and take actions during any of the phases of your turn you offered to skip. Normaly, the opponent will act durring your end-step, which means you will no longer be able to cast a creature or sorcery, but you can still respond with instant spells or activated abilities. 



Correction when a player says "go" (or "done" in this case) it's proposing a shortcut to pass priority until their end step and then giving their oppoent priority.


From the MTG tournament rulebook:
4.2. Tournament Shortcuts

The statement "Go" (and equivalents such as "Your turn" and "Done") offers to keep passing priority until an opponent has priority in the end step. Opponents are assumed to be acting then unless they specify otherwise.



  

DCI Level 2 Judge

Rockford, Illinois


From the MTG tournament rulebook:
4.2. Tournament Shortcuts

The statement "Go" (and equivalents such as "Your turn" and "Done") offers to keep passing priority until an opponent has priority in the end step. Opponents are assumed to be acting then unless they specify otherwise.


So if you untap after your opponent says "go", you are assumed to be doing so in his end step and thus doing something illegal? How does one normally move to one's untap step in a tournament?

Thank you!  That clears things up!!
 
So if you untap after your opponent says "go", you are assumed to be doing so in his end step and thus doing something illegal? How does one normally move to one's untap step in a tournament?

Untapping your permanents in this scenario is a perfectly reasonable way of showing "i accept your shortcut and then pass priority in your end step, thus ending your turn, and moving to my untap step."
What about in multiplayer games?
What about in multiplayer games?


Does anyone object to the player untapping his lands (eg, by saying "woah, hang on")? If not, then the gamestate is clear to everyone in the game: all non-active players passed priority in succession, and the next player began his/her turn. If someone did object, then we back up to where the objecting player has priority and continue from there.
So you can propose a shortcut and start executing immediately. What's the amount of time someone has to object? I usually take less time to untap and draw than it takes to say "woah, hang on".
So you can propose a shortcut and start executing immediately. What's the amount of time someone has to object? I usually take less time to untap and draw than it takes to say "woah, hang on".


You're playing multiplayer, adapt ? :P

"Go"
*raises head*
"Anyone?"
... *nods*
"Untaps and draw"

Rules Advisor

The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

So you can propose a shortcut and start executing immediately. What's the amount of time someone has to object? I usually take less time to untap and draw than it takes to say "woah, hang on".


You're playing multiplayer, adapt ? :P

"Go"
*raises head*
"Anyone?"
... *nods*
"Untaps and draw"

You seem to have misread the question. Cyphern said

A: "Go"
B: "Untaps and draw"

was ok in tournaments. I asked how that works. Your post does not help.

Or maybe you attempting to answer my earlier quesiton which asked what people actually do in tournaments? Your post does not help answer that either.
ln a two-player game, if your opponent just said "go", you have priority, and as soon as you pass priority, the turn ends and you untap. By just untapping, you aren't skipping anything except the "I pass priority", which normally isn't spoken, and you aren't denying anyone the opportunity to do anything. There's no reason this should be problematic.

In multi-player games, this changes, of course.
Unless you simply wanted to confirm what cypher said earlier by repeating it, the open quesiton is specifically about multi-player.
You seem to have misread the question. Cyphern said

A: "Go"
B: "Untaps and draw"

was ok in tournaments. I asked how that works. Your post does not help.

Or maybe you attempting to answer my earlier quesiton which asked what people actually do in tournaments? Your post does not help answer that either.


Unless you simply wanted to confirm what cypher said earlier by repeating it, the open quesiton is specifically about multi-player.

No, my answer was relative to multiplayer, as specified in my post. Reading helps.

Rules Advisor

The Basic rulebook, read it! A lot of basic questions are answered there!

How to autocard :
Type [c]Black Lotus[/c] to get Black Lotus.
Type [c=Black Lotus]The Overpowered One[/c] to get The Overpowered One.

Are there multiplayer tournaments? (Aside from 2HG and other shared turn formats, where there would be less of an issue.)

If not, I'm not sure the MTR is a good source for shortcuts. I think the best thing would be to either
A) Explicitly ask if anyone's looking to respond, or
B) Pause for a moment after you untap to give people time to object. You don't have wait for a prompt or anything, just give yourself time to stop in case someone does speak up.
Our playgroup's official minimum duration is «long enough to have a sip of beer»...
Seriously: if you go from «Go» to «Untap&Draw» at warp speed in multiplayer, you WILL get snapped at! 

It's not Logic, it's Magic!

Unless you simply wanted to confirm what cypher said earlier by repeating it, the open quesiton is specifically about multi-player.

No, my answer was relative to multiplayer, as specified in my post. Reading helps.

That was a reply to adeyke, not to you.
So you can propose a shortcut and start executing immediately. What's the amount of time someone has to object? I usually take less time to untap and draw than it takes to say "woah, hang on".


You're playing multiplayer, adapt ? :P

"Go"
*raises head*
"Anyone?"
... *nods*
"Untaps and draw"

You seem to have misread the question. Cyphern said

A: "Go"
B: "Untaps and draw"

was ok in tournaments. I asked how that works. Your post does not help.

Or maybe you attempting to answer my earlier quesiton which asked what people actually do in tournaments? Your post does not help answer that either.


Cyphern, if you read his post, was explicitly answering your question about multiplayer. You didn't say anything in your response to indicate that the context had changed (back), so Zoidberg's answer was perfectly appropriate and if anyone appears to have lost track of the conversation it's you.

In any case, whether you're asking about tournaments or about multiplayer, your question has been answered. Or at least you've failed to make it clear what aspect of it hasn't been answered to your satisfaction.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Cyphern, if you read his post, was explicitly answering your question about multiplayer.

Yes, cyphern did make a post about multi-player. I even replied to it. Never said otherwise.

you've failed to make it clear what aspect of it hasn't been answered to your satisfaction.

Some aspect was answered? Pending question:
So you can propose a shortcut and start executing immediately. What's the amount of time someone has to object? I usually take less time to untap and draw than it takes to say "woah, hang on".

Or to be crystal clear:

  1. In a tournament setting, how long after I start untap my lands does someone have to say "woah, hang on" to do something in the previous player's end step?

  2. In a tournament setting, do I have to ask to move to Draw step? If not, how long must I twiddle my thumbs between untapping and drawing?

  3. In a tournament setting, is it customary to untap without explicity leaving the end step?


Zoidberg's answer was perfectly appropriate

When asked what happens when one doesn't ask before untapping, he suggested I could ask before untapping.
Pending question:
So you can propose a shortcut and start executing immediately. What's the amount of time someone has to object? I usually take less time to untap and draw than it takes to say "woah, hang on".


For multiplayer games, the question has been answered as well as it can be. There are no sanctioned multiplayer formats, so there are no tournament rules to cite. Just find an agreement with your play group.

 Or to be crystal clear:
1. In a tournament setting, how long after I start untap my lands does someone have to say "woah, hang on" to do something in the previous player's end step?
2. In a tournament setting, do I have to ask to move to Draw step? If not, how long must I twiddle my thumbs between untapping and drawing?
3. In a tournament setting, is it customary to untap without explicity leaving the end step?

1. Tournament settings, as far as tournament rules go, only exist for two-player games. Once player A says "go", he gives up his chance to act in his own end step, unless you also do something in his end step. So, if your opponent says "go", you can untap your cards and proceed with your turn.
In a casual multiplayer, non-sanctioned tournament, again it's more or less up to the group to find an agreement, or the organizer could try and define and enforce some desired behavior. Be casual and don't simply jump the gun, but wait a moment and give other players a chance to voice their intent to step in.

2. Usually, players that want to do something in their opponent's upkeep will warn them of that in some way. They might say "go, in your upkeep...", or "go", wait until you start to untap, then say "before you draw...", or something similar. A lot of players also tend to pause for a moment before drawing, and many announce that they want to draw now; especially if they know that their opponent might want to do something in their upkeep (maybe because he has done so before in the match).
If there's disagreement about the communication, i.e. whether or not the opponent announced that he wanted to do something during the upkeep, or whether the player rushed through his upkeep ty maybe try and not give his opponent a chance to act, a judge will be called and sort it out.

3. Yes. As has been said, once a player says "go", he gives up his rights to do anything else during his turn, unless his opponent also does anything. Since the player can't do anything anyway, there's no need to explicitly pass priority (and no matter how you phrased it, having to say anything at all would amount to having to explicitly pass priority), and the opponent can simply start untapping. Since he can only do that in his untap step, it is clear to everybody where the game is.

DCI Lvl 2 Judge