when did mana burn happen?

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i was alarmed when i just discovered the card Su-Chi at how good it is, especially for an older card. but then i remembered mana burn.
so i'm wondering when mana burn happens. back in Antiquities, i vaguely remember that there was only one main phase, and combat wasn't a phase but something "optional" you could do within your main phase? so back then, could i have Su-Chi die, and then use the mana to play another creature during the same turn?

also: does anyone know if the fourth/ice-age rulebook, and the  fifth-edition rulebook is available online? i remember learning Magic through the ice-age rulebook and loving its conversational tone (and the Ornithopter-InfiniteLoop joke in the Index :-) ), and i remember being fascinated while reading the fifth edition rulebook on all the intricate corner cases.
` but i can't find either online; only the fifth edition rulings on individual cards.
Mana burn doesn't happen at all and hasn't since M10. Mana pools empty at the end of each step and phase, but there's no life penalty associated with this.
According to the 4th Edition rule book I've got in my hand (sweet oversized one from some pre-packaged box set), your "mana pool empties at the end of each phase and the beginning and end of an attack."  Mana burn happened when the mana pool emptied with unused mana in it. 

Back then the phases were (also quoted from the rule book):
- Untap
- Upkeep
- Draw
- Main (in any order):
  - Play one land
  - Make one attack
  - Cast spells
- Discard
- End
- Heal creatures and clear temporary effects

So no, you couldn't have him die in combat and then cast a creature afterwards, because your mana pool emptied at the end of combat.  Similar to how he works today.


(this rule book also has the end note that says if you and your opponent can't agree on a ruling, flip a coin!)

@GainsBanding:

i'm jealous of your over-sized 4th ed rulebook :-)
and i also remember the rule about if your opponent and you can't agree on a rule, you flip a coin. lol, that'd be a horrible way to lose an ante card, wouldn't it?

so cool, Su-Chi's drawback really /was/ a pretty significant one; you'd have to use an instant or an activated ability to not take the four mana-burn, if Su-Chi died (or, should i say, "goes to the graveyard") :-)


Right before mana burn was removed (M2010?), mana emptied at the end of each phase (as opposed to each step, which is the case today). Mana burn happened at that time.

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Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

@GainsBanding:
i just noticed something. at the time of fourth edition, you weren't allowed to cast spells before /and/ after your attack? (i'm basing this on what you typed up under "Main (in any order)")?
You were able to cast spells both before and after combat from the earliest days and I don't think that has ever changed.

From the Original Rulebook (Page 11).
Main. You may do several things during the main phase. In no particular order:
(a) You may put any one land from your hand into play. Mana from this land may be used during the current turn.
(b) You may make one attack against your rival with any or all of your creatures in play except those that came into play this turn. Newly summoned creatures cannot be used until the next turn.
(c) You may cast any spells in your hand, provided you have enough mana. You can cast spells before and after taking other actions.

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ah, 2goth4u, thanks for posting this. it's as i remembered it being when i first started learning.

although back then i didn't call my opponent my "rival". i think i may start doing that from now on :-)
You were able to cast spells both before and after combat from the earliest days and I don't think that has ever changed.

Really? I'm pretty sure it was either before or after, but not both.

You were able to cast spells both before and after combat from the earliest days and I don't think that has ever changed.

Really? I'm pretty sure it was either before or after, but not both.




curious.

maybe GainsBanding can look through the 4th edition rulebook more carefully to see if it changed at 4th edition.
Actually, i just noticed he more or less confirmed it already. He said in 4th:

- Main (in any order):
  - Play one land
  - Make one attack
  - Cast spells

You could cast any number of spells, and the two one-of  actions could be taken any time before, after, or between spell-castings.
Since Day One, Magic allowed casting spells both before & after combat.
But Mana burn no longer exists, so this Thread belongs in the «Nostalgia Forum»... 

Wizards of the Coast: outsourced to Elbonia

oh, do they do rules questions there, Chaikov?
The earliest rules questions forum I remember was in paper magazines...
Then they moved to the internet; I don't remember who was the first «Net Judge», but everybody remembers the infamous John Carter! 

Wizards of the Coast: outsourced to Elbonia

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