Recent Gatherer update breaks some mana costs

24 posts / 0 new
Last post
Alexi, Zephyr Mage
Dream Halls
Morphling
Crosis, the Purger

With the recent Gatherer update, several cards whose mana costs start out "" (including, but not limited to, the above examples) are abruptly cut off at that point, and the converted mana cost reflects the corrupt value of 4. Needless to say, this is wrong. It seems to only apply to fairly old cards (Ixidor, Reality Sculptor is broken; Parallel Thoughts is fixed; and most of the really old cards are fixed by virtue of having a Master's Edition printing, and a recency date that reflects that).

Also, despite Scourge not falling victim to the 3U bug, Spark Spray somehow morphed from cycling to cycling .
Well that's... weird. I'll pass it along to the Gatherer team to see what happened.
It seems there were a bunch of changes. Lovisa Coldeyes is not a Barbarian anymore. I do not know if that is intentional or what.
That almost certainly is. Since the Update Bulletin hasn't been released yet, we don't know if this list is exhaustive, but almost all the non-corrupted changes this time fall into two categories:

-Effects that give a bonus to multiple creature types are rewritten in a way that makes it more clear that the answer to "does a Changeling get double counted" is no: Immerwolf, for example, now reads "Each other creature you control that's a Wolf or a Werewolf gets +1/+1." Lovisa Coldeyes is included in this change, but she could only properly take advantage of the new template by losing the Barbarian type, so they went with that.
-Effects that search for multiple specified cards are rewritten to take the "fail to find" rule into account: Gifts Ungiven now says "up to four cards", for example.
-Effects that give a bonus to multiple creature types are rewritten in a way that makes it more clear that the answer to "does a Changeling get double counted" is no: Immerwolf , for example, now reads "Each other creature you control that's a Wolf or a Werewolf gets +1/+1." Lovisa Coldeyes is included in this change, but she could only properly take advantage of the new template by losing the Barbarian type, so they went with that.

Lovisa Coldeyes should say "Each other creature that's a Barbarian, a Warrior, or a Berserker gets +2/+2 and has haste." That is the same change they made to Immerwolf.
If they made that change, then an effect that turned her into a Warrior or Berserker (such as, let's see, Boldwyr Intimidator) wouldn't cause her to get +2/+2, while both the pre- and post-Lord versions have always allowed her to get that bonus. The only difference is that after Lord was retired as a type, turning her into a Barbarian wouldn't give a boost because she already was one, until now. The difference between "all TYPE" and "other TYPE" is why they can't apply the same treatment to cards like Verdeloth the Ancient.
Then if they do not want to make that small functional change for the sake of clarity, they should just leave it how it was: with the same wording as Death Baron and Verdeloth the Ancient.
One thing's for sure: the "you control" in Lovisa's text should definitely be removed.
I just noticed that the current Oracle text for Lovisa Coldeyes is wrong in another way. The ability is supposed to affect all player's creatures not just yours.
I don't see the problem with the current Oracle wording. Her original printing wasn't barbarian/warrior/berserker, so how can any version of her without these types be considered a bad change.
[<o>]
Then if they do not want to make that small functional change for the sake of clarity, they should just leave it how it was: with the same wording as Death Baron  and Verdeloth the Ancient .


I agree with will. I find it more likely that Lovisa lost her barbarian type because it's not printed on her, which resulted in bringing her back to her original functionality. So she can't use the "X and other Y" template.

The baron and Verdeloth, are printed with their bonus granting type. In addition, they can't easily use the new template because they want to grant the bonus to themselves for one type but not grant it to themselves for their own type. They can't start it with "each creature" or with "each other creature", and using "each creature ... and each other creature ..." would be no less ambiguous than their current wording, only longer. I think that for that reason they keep saying "X and other Y".


Everything about Lovisa's change is intentional except the addition of "you control." That was just my mistake. It'll be corrected in a future update.

Here is where Lovisa Coldeyes got her Barbarian creature type.
The Grand Creature Type Update - Mark Gottlieb - Wednesday, September 26, 2007

Text Changes

Goblin King never affected itself because it wasn't a Goblin for the first decade or so of its life. When it was reprinted in Ninth Edition as a Goblin, its template was changed so that it would continue to not affect itself—it now affected "other" Goblins. A number of cards got similar errata as part of this update to preserve their functionality as much as possible. They are: Zombie Master; Kobold Drill Sergeant; Kobold Overlord; Orc General; Anaba Ancestor; Faerie Noble; Thopter Squadron; Kangee, Aerie Keeper; and Lovisa Coldeyes. In addition, Elephant Graveyard now regenerates only Elephants because Mammoth no longer exists. (All Mammoths are now Elephants, so Elephant Graveyard interacts with the same cards that it always did.)



I mentioned a few of the following cards in my And/Or Template thread.

Aysen Crusader
Current Oracle rules text.
Aysen Crusader's power and toughness are each equal to 2 plus the number of Soldiers and Warriors you control.

Proposed rules text.
Aysen Crusader's power and toughness are each equal to 2 plus the number of creatures you control that are Soldiers or Warriors.

Here are a few more "number of ..." cards but I think they should be fine as they are.

Current Oracle rules text for Silvergill Douser
: Target creature gets -X/-0 until end of turn, where X is the number of Merfolk and/or Faeries you control.

Current Oracle rules text for Chaotic Backlash
Chaotic Backlash deals damage to target player equal to twice the number of white and/or blue permanents he or she controls.

Current Oracle rules text for Maraxus of Keld
Maraxus of Keld's power and toughness are each equal to the number of untapped artifacts, creatures, and lands you control.

Current Oracle rules text for Spoils of War
X is the number of artifact and/or creature cards in an opponent's graveyard as you cast Spoils of War.
Distribute X +1/+1 counters among any number of target creatures.
Then if they do not want to make that small functional change for the sake of clarity, they should just leave it how it was: with the same wording as Death Baron and Verdeloth the Ancient.

I agree with will. I find it more likely that Lovisa lost her barbarian type because it's not printed on her, which resulted in bringing her back to her original functionality. So she can't use the "X and other Y" template.

Lovisa Coldeyes was purposefully made a Barbarian because it makes more sense just like Keldon Warlord and Balthor the Stout were changed. There are lots of cards that have types added because you would expect them to be that type. Why is it getting its type removed now?
Lovisa Coldeyes was purposefully made a Barbarian because it makes more sense just like Keldon Warlord and Balthor the Stout were changed. There are lots of cards that have types added because you would expect them to be that type. Why is it getting its type removed now?

Interesting. I think the "policy" of matching the oracle to the printed text is getting priority over giving those cards sensible class type. If so, then I think Balthor should follow that decision as well since his template is rather "new". Keldon Warlord on the other hand, might get off the hook since he's "old enough" and would be typeless otherwise.
c/o Ryan Rubley L2

The following card's all appear to have had their mana costs changed according to the new oracle text on Gatherer:

3UU -> 3U
Alexi, Zephyr Mage
Balshan Griffin
Bazaar of Wonders
Desertion
Dispersing Orb
Dream Halls
Duplicity
Empress Galina
Energy Vortex
Essence Fracture
Fervent Denial
Hakim, Loreweaver
Heightened Awareness
Hydromorph Gull
Ice Cave
Ixidor, Reality Sculptor
Killer Whale
Mawcor
Misdirection
Mist of Stagnation
Mistform Shrieker
Morphling
Psychic Allergy
Psychic Battle
Recantation
Riptide Chronologist
Riptide Shapeshifter
Saprazzan Bailiff
Silver Wyvern
Spiketail Drake
Sunder
Supreme Inquisitor
Taniwha
Temporal Distortion
Treachery
Water Elemental
Waterspout Elemental
Wormfang Behemoth

3UBR -> 3U
Crosis, the Purger

3UR -> 3U
Minotaur Illusionist

3UB -> 3U
Nebuchadnezzar
Skeleton Ship

3UUB -> 3U
Princess Lucrezia
Spinal Embrace

3UBB -> 3U
Ramirez DePietro

3UUU -> 3U
Spelljack

3UUBB -> 3U
Ur-Drago 

DCI Certified Judge & Goth/Industrial/EBM/Indie/Alternative/80's-Wave DJ
DJ Vortex

DCI Certified Judge since July 13, 2013
DCI #5209514320


My Wife's Makeup Artist Page <-- cool stuff - check it out

Lovisa Coldeyes was purposefully made a Barbarian because it makes more sense just like Keldon Warlord and Balthor the Stout were changed. There are lots of cards that have types added because you would expect them to be that type. Why is it getting its type removed now?

Interesting. I think the "policy" of matching the oracle to the printed text, getting priority over giving those cards sensible class type. If so, then I think Balthor should follow that decision as well since his template is rather "new". Keldon Warlord on the other hand, might get off the hook since he's "old enough" and would be typeless otherwise.

There are hundreds of cards just like Lovisa and Balthor. You are suggesting that they undo something like half of the changes from the Grand Creature Update.
That sounds pretty good to me
There are hundreds of cards just like Lovisa and Balthor. You are suggesting that they undo something like half of the changes from the Grand Creature Update.

Hey, don't look at me. I'm not the one who removed the Barbarian type from Lovisa but not from other cards like it.

But to be more straight, that's not exactly what I'm suggesting but something close. If there's a reason for removing a type from one card and that reason exists for other cards, then either these cards follow the change as well, or as you suggest, Lovisa should revert back to being a barbarian. Also, the amount of cards to change would probably be rather small. From a quick search for "not too old" lord cards, aside from already mentioned cards I could find only three more cards:
Darien, King of Kjeldor should not be a soldier
Dralnu, Lich Lord should not be a wizard
Tivadar of Thorn should not be a knight

Are there any other fitting cards that are not without a race or no type at all otherwise, and that are not relatively old?

Lovisa was in the very weird spot of having an ability that refered to creature types it didn't have, then being given one of those creature types and errata to almost match her printed functionality. Since we're going with the cleaner "creature that's a..." template, it seemed a fine time to rein in that bit of weirdness. If there are other cards in a similar situation, I'd be happy to look at them for a future update. However, cases like Tivadar don't meet the criteria we used here and will continue to keep their flavorful creature type additions.
Thanks for the info Matt.
I couldn't find any other cards but there's Balthor the Stout which PirateAmmo mentioned which seems to be in the same situation.
Make him a warrior. That's a standard Dwarf type, and would then make more sense with Kamahl's quote on him.

Or simply remove it, so that it matches Balthor the Defiled. Suddenly he stops being a Barbarian when he dies?
I think it'd be wierd to have him as warrior when he's supposed to be a lord of barbarians, especially in a block full of barbarians and that wasn't supposed to have any warriors from the outset (Jeska, Warrior Adept is the only warrior in the block, and only because of her name).
No one's pointed this out yet, but all of the mana costs in Gatherer (the ones I checked, anyway) appear to be fixed now.