Silence spell - 3.5

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A few questions on Silence:

1) If you cast it on an arrow, shoot the arrow and it is destroyed (whether from a hit or miss) does it dispel the spell cast on it?

2) if the spell is not dispelled, presuming the arrow breaks into multiple pieces (destroyed?) what piece has the spell on it?
If it wasn't for Shadowfax, Gandalf never would have made it. Shadowfax, the real hero of LotR.
A few questions on Silence:

1) If you cast it on an arrow, shoot the arrow and it is destroyed (whether from a hit or miss) does it dispel the spell cast on it?

2) if the spell is not dispelled, presuming the arrow breaks into multiple pieces (destroyed?) what piece has the spell on it?

if you cast it in the arrow, the arrow is an object and has HP and is the target of the spell, if the arrow fail her 50% at hit something the arrow is broken and then it is an destroyed object (no longer the arrow where you cast the spell)and then not longer are Subject of the Silcence Spell and this stop it, if the Arrow is Missing then the Silence still exist but are missing
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Get creative and cast it on the arrowHEAD.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Bah. It's an emanation, not a spread, so it will be blocked by cover. Cast it on a coin, glue the coin to the bottom of a tube, and put a lid on the tube. Remove the lid and you have a Cone of Silence instad of a lantern.

In all honesty, there's no such guideline for that, so you'll have to make it up.

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The player wants to cast it on an arrow. I understand the objective of casting it on the arrowhead, but I am not sure that RAW doesn't destroy the arrowhead along with the arrow.


Draco/Tempest do you agree that if the arrow hits or fails its 50% chance to be destroyed on a miss and is destroyed, the spell effect is dispelled?
If it wasn't for Shadowfax, Gandalf never would have made it. Shadowfax, the real hero of LotR.
If you miss with the arrow, and you're out in the open, then it will probably end up too far away for the Silence spell to have the effect you want anyway. If inside then it will hit a wall of some sort and be destroyed anyway, dispelling the effect.

If you cast the spell on the arrowhead and hit, then the arrowhead will likely be embedded in flesh, blocking the emanation of the spell anyway, not giving you the effect you were hoping for..

The best bet would be to cast the spell on the arrow's fletching and hit your target. 
So Ahruhn, do you agree that if the arrow hits or fails its 50% chance to be destroyed on a miss and is destroyed, the spell effect is dispelled?
If it wasn't for Shadowfax, Gandalf never would have made it. Shadowfax, the real hero of LotR.
If the arrow hits, then no; it should be effective. Otherwise you might as well tell your player "No, don't bother doing anything even nominally original." If it misses, then like Ahruhn said - it's either too far away to do much, or there's a good chance it shatters.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Bah. It's an emanation, not a spread, so it will be blocked by cover. Cast it on a coin, glue the coin to the bottom of a tube, and put a lid on the tube. Remove the lid and you have a Cone of Silence instad of a lantern.

In all honesty, there's no such guideline for that, so you'll have to make it up.

But under the rules you can't do it because this don't count as a block between 2 creatures location (2 squares)

now if he want throw a zone of silence is better use a rock and a sling.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
I've never been a big fan of the rule saying that an arrow that hits is destroyed. Every archer in every fantasy movie recovers arrows and uses them again and I see no reason that shouldn't be possible in game either. It all depends on what you're fighting and what you hit. My homerule for ammunition is that there's a 50% chance the arrow is destroyed whether it hits or misses, and even those that fail this check have a chance of being recovered with a Craft(Bowyer/Fletcher) check. The destruction of an arrow that hits wouldn't happen until someone pulls it out or breaks it off

If you specify the fletching as the target of the Silence spell, it's unlikely to be destroyed to the point of complete destruction, so the issue of the spell ending shouldn't come up.

I can't find anything that specifically mentions what happens if the target of a spell is destroyed, if anyone else can find something please let me know. So, for me right now, it probably comes down to a DM decision. I would say that if you chose to cast a spell on an object then it would end upon the object's destruction.

It might be reasonable though, for a spell like Silence, that can be cast on a creature, object, or point in space, for the spell to transition to the point in space (never to a creature) that the destruction took place. 
I'd rule that if you cast Silence on an arrow and shoot it at a creature the spell will end.  If you cast Silence on an arrow and then that arrow is fired to a "spot" I'd give it a 50% chance of surviving and working from that spot.

Although it may seem to be "creative" to cast Silence on an inanimate object and then "force" another creature to take the object (firing the arrow into that creature) if believe it clearly violates the spirit of the spell.  The spell already has a LONG range and if you want the spell to move with a creature you should be able to cast the spell on your intended target although the target gets a save to negate the spell.

To put things nicely if a caster wants to Silence an opponent he should either cast the spell on something near that opponent which would force the opponent to move out of the AoO or he needs to cast it ON someone (or something is someone's posession) which would premit a save to negate.

well in this case thrown a rock with silence not is a crazy idea, the target can move away from the stone, but in case you want to embed an object with silence in the target then when this happen the object going to be part of the target and should gain a chance to make a save again the silence spell.
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
StevenO, a fair ruling. I take it from that ruling that you agree that an arrow that is destroyed would dispel the Silence on it?
If it wasn't for Shadowfax, Gandalf never would have made it. Shadowfax, the real hero of LotR.
StevenO, a fair ruling. I take it from that ruling that you agree that an arrow that is destroyed would dispel the Silence on it?

I would say so; if the target the spell is cast on "fails" then is there still a target there for the spell to work off of?  The alternative would be to have the spell remain at that "point in space" with the idea that the spell "falls off" the broken item; this would make a broken arrow irrelavent but it would still mean the spell's effects would be immobile.
I like your last post Steven (post #10). The last sentence. It pretty much reminds me of the Arcane Archer class ability for all AoE spells, but one that can be used for this particular spell's delivery by creative parties with "normal" means.

Oh, and I just love getting to think about the military term, "broken arrow"... 
Neue, that's just because you're a John Travolta fan.

Now, how about we just agree that your archer can target the opponent's SPACE (AC 10, iirc?), and if he does so, then the caster can move away. If the player is an Arcane Archer, he can shoot an opponent directly?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I'd rather not think about what might happen with a "broken arrow."  Too many crazy people around.

Now that I see the AA's been brought into this and assuming we're looking at the Imbue Arrow ability it should be clear that the AA could channel Silence to a target by imbuing his arrow with it.  If he actually casts silence on the arrow then nothing has changed but if he effectively casts it through the arrow then we're looking at something a little different.  While I know it is NOT specified in the Imbue Arrow description I'm probably going to houserule kind of penalty on the normal save for the targetted spell it carries if not declare the save automatically fails.  Considering how much complaining people do about the AA allowing its arrows to carry "no save" spells (or at least penalized save spells) shouldn't be too bad considering some of the other alternatives I've seen for AA.

When the AA uses "imbue arrow" the arrow just becomes the messeger that carries the spell towards it target.  This is a bit different from having the arrow being the "target" and then sending the target away.