American Vengeance

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Been playtesting various builds of this deck a lot and have it at a point where I'm happy with it. It's a blast to play and it's always a nice feeling to be able to win with a creatureless deck, especially in this meta. Suggestions are always welcome but it's pretty much set in stone at this point, mostly just posting it here to share.

Enchantments(4)
4xBurning Vengeance

Instants(25)
3xBurning Oil
4xDesperate Ravings
3xDissipate
3xFeeling of Dread
3xRewind
3xSearing Spear
2xSphinx's Revelation
4xThink Twice

Sorceries(8)
1xDevil's Play
3xFaithless Looting
4xSupreme Verdict

Land(23)
2xClifftop Retreat
1xDesolate Lighthouse
3xGlacial Fortress
4xHallowed Fountain
4xSteam Vents
3xSulfur Falls
2xIsland
2xMountain
2xPlains
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c1b8574f03c7cff35d72311f1208599a.jpg?v=90000)
Cards to consider:

Feeling of dread
Snapcaster Mage
Past in Flames
Guttersnipe

Cards I don't like in this list

Izzet Charm: I'm assuming it's there to dump things to your yard but you're running looting and ravings for that so I don't think it's needed

Rewind: Rewind saw play to cast restoration angel, that's about it. 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/5.jpg)

Rewind is actually fantastic in this deck, you'll always have something you can do with the mana at the end of their turn so you can really take advantage of it. I wasn't aware it had ever seen play in standard, I certainly haven't come across any other decks using it.

Izzet Charm isn't just for the looting effect, it's actually the mode I find I use the least. It's a removal/counter spell that is also able to function as an instant speed Faithless Looting and it performs quite well, though if I had to pick a card ot get rid of it would probably be this one.

Feeling of Dread is definitely a card I forgot about. I only recently added white and it must have slipped under my radar, going to test the deck with 3 of them replacing the Izzet Charms and see how it goes.

I haven't tried the deck with Snapcaster Mage yet due to budget reasons. At the same time I'm kind of reluctant to add him just because I like being creatureless. Will definitely try it out if I get hold of a few copies though.

I've tried Past in Flames and it really didn't work out so well.

Due to the complete lack of other creatures to absorb removal, Guttersnipe is all but guaranteed to die before I can really take advantage of him.
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Gonna just straight up tell you this:

Wizards made flashback themed decks extra weak because they thought it was the top deck, and thought that as-is it would be a top tournament contender. Shows you how much they were wrong.
Secondly, the deck lacks a LOT of raw power that helps other decks be able to fight against aggro.

You also really need Secrets of the Dead to keep you going.

That said, your deck looks like one of the better attemps at the theme. Agree with most your views, but I think you really need Guttersnipe.

(at)MrEnglish22

Gonna just straight up tell you this:

Wizards made flashback themed decks extra weak because they thought it was the top deck, and thought that as-is it would be a top tournament contender. Shows you how much they were wrong.
Secondly, the deck lacks a LOT of raw power that helps other decks be able to fight against aggro.

You also really need Secrets of the Dead to keep you going.

That said, your deck looks like one of the better attemps at the theme. Agree with most your views, but I think you really need Guttersnipe.



I ran Secrets of the Dead in a lot of early builds, but from my experience it really wasn't necessary. The deck is almost entirely card advantage as is, and if you have multiple copies out you run a serious risk of milling yourself to death if the game runs long, as they often can with this deck.

I really do have to disagree with Guttersnipe. I can't count the times I've had an opponent show me a hand full of various forms of removal at the end of a game while commenting on all the dead cards they had, which is itself another form of card advantage. While he would certainly fit into the deck well I just can't see him surviving long enough to have a large enough impact to justify running him.

Updated the deck list with Feeling of Dread replacing Izzet Charm
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1:  Have you considered thought scour?  It seems like good value in your deck.
2:  How do you deal with, say, a thundermaw or a thragtusk?  Counterspells are cool, but what if they have cavern of souls?

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
I've tried Thought Scour, it isn't bad but the inability to choose what gets milled can lead to unfortunate consequences. Desperate Ravings works since it has flashback and I have the ability to weigh the risk/reward before casting it, Thought Scour is more of a crapshoot. If we get any good deck manipulation so I can set it up it will probably find a place in the deck but in the mean time I'm not particularly keen on it.

Thragtusk isn't too much of a problem. While it's obviously preferable to counter him to stop the life gain, if he does hit the field 3 toghness really isn't a lot. Searing Spear kills him easily enough. 2 Burning Vengeance triggers will kill him. Burning Oil will kill him and the token the following turn just by itself.

Thundermaw Hellkite can be a bit more of a problem if he resolves before you can play a Burning Vengeance. With a Vengeance on the field he isn't too tough to burn out, and if you have a Burning Oil in the yard he isn't a problem at all. Usually I'll have a Supreme Verdict or the Devil's Play in hand/yard when he comes out so I just take one hit at most, but I've definitely lost a few games because of him.

Just need to take this moment to express, once again, that I ****ing hate Cavern of Souls. It's been giving this deck headaches since it came out.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c1b8574f03c7cff35d72311f1208599a.jpg?v=90000)
[C]ghost quarter[/c] will take care of CoS.
I never really considered Ghost Quarter, I could probably run a couple of those mainboard without hurting the manabase too much.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c1b8574f03c7cff35d72311f1208599a.jpg?v=90000)
Your oppenents will certainly board out all creature removal against this deck.
So, why not have guttersnipe in the board in side it in after game one?
The way to think of thought scour is that the cards it mills are average.  Sometimes you'll mill your best cards, but an equal amount of the time it will enable you to draw your best cards because you milled crap.  It doesn't change the overagll quality of your deck at all.  It does, however, give you 2 chances to hit flashback spells, which you have 18 of, and if it doesn't, it's just a generic cantrip.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
Do be mindful of how you use scour. If you're trying to find a burning vengeance mill your opponent and just cantrip yourself.

I watched a fairly talented player punt a delver match when he was trying to find his gideon... of which there was only one... to legend rule out an opposing gideon. He'd gone through a lot of his deck and whiffed.. and he thought scoured.. milling himself (of which delver has no ability to recur a pw) and rolled the gideon right into the bin on the first card. Now I understand the averages and that gideon could have been the third card down... but if you only run one of a card putting it into your bin is sometimes worse than drawing it a turn later.

Also, I love guttersnipe in the sideboard. He's amazing in this deck but indeed very vulnerable game one. Out of the board in g2 he'll blow people out who board in either GY hate or an answer for your Vengeance... and then you slam guttersnipe and just clock them out, sometimes with a vengeance.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Guttersnipe in the sideboard is actually a really good idea.

I'm not sure where I would even fit in Thought Scour at this point were I to put it back in. Replacing any of the flashback cards would make it generally worse in the deck, and the cards that don't have flashback are pretty critical.
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I don't see any good and obvious cuts for it.

I'd test shaving a Supreme Verdict... and maybe a burning vengeance for just 2 Thought Scours. With the volume of draw at your disposal you really only need 3 verdicts and 3 vengeances I think.

EDIT: Don't you miss not having a few Pillars of Flame or Snapcasters? I think they're high power cards for the meta you're missing. Rewind would be the first cut to force these good cards in.  Example, cutting rewind and adding 3 Snaps keeps your counters at critical mass on Dissipate... and lets you flashback the non-flashback cards like Sphinx's. Kind of a big deal. Searing Spear maybe could go for Pillar of Flame also. I could care less about Thought Scour getting in but you need Snapcasters and Pillars IMO. I strongly suggest them, yadda yadda. 

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGNichecopy.png)

Fix your Forum Experience here: http://community.wizards.com/forum/new-site-feedback/threads/3925861

Boasts?

2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Been playtesting various builds of this deck a lot and have it at a point where I'm happy with it. It's a blast to play and it's always a nice feeling to be able to win with a creatureless deck, especially in this meta. Suggestions are always welcome but it's pretty much set in stone at this point, mostly just posting it here to share.

Enchantments(4)
4xBurning Vengeance

Instants(25)
3xBurning Oil
4xDesperate Ravings
3xDissipate
3xFeeling of Dread
3xRewind
3xSearing Spear
2xSphinx's Revelation
4xThink Twice

Sorceries(8)
1xDevil's Play
3xFaithless Looting
4xSupreme Verdict

Land(23)
2xClifftop Retreat
1xDesolate Lighthouse
3xGlacial Fortress
4xHallowed Fountain
4xSteam Vents
3xSulfur Falls
2xIsland
2xMountain
2xPlains

Is 33 direct damage plus your 2 available instances of Devil's Play for X enough to kill all the creatures you need to zap and your opponent, considering all the lifegain going on currently?
Been playtesting various builds of this deck a lot and have it at a point where I'm happy with it. It's a blast to play and it's always a nice feeling to be able to win with a creatureless deck, especially in this meta. Suggestions are always welcome but it's pretty much set in stone at this point, mostly just posting it here to share.

Enchantments(4)
4xBurning Vengeance

Instants(25)
3xBurning Oil
4xDesperate Ravings
3xDissipate
3xFeeling of Dread
3xRewind
3xSearing Spear
2xSphinx's Revelation
4xThink Twice

Sorceries(8)
1xDevil's Play
3xFaithless Looting
4xSupreme Verdict

Land(23)
2xClifftop Retreat
1xDesolate Lighthouse
3xGlacial Fortress
4xHallowed Fountain
4xSteam Vents
3xSulfur Falls
2xIsland
2xMountain
2xPlains

Is 33 direct damage plus your 2 available instances of Devil's Play for X enough to kill all the creatures you need to zap and your opponent, considering all the lifegain going on currently?



I've never been in a position where I was unable to finish off an opponent due to a lack of direct damage, so evidently yes.
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I don't see any good and obvious cuts for it.

I'd test shaving a Supreme Verdict... and maybe a burning vengeance for just 2 Thought Scours. With the volume of draw at your disposal you really only need 3 verdicts and 3 vengeances I think.

EDIT: Don't you miss not having a few Pillars of Flame or Snapcasters? I think they're high power cards for the meta you're missing. Rewind would be the first cut to force these good cards in.  Example, cutting rewind and adding 3 Snaps keeps your counters at critical mass on Dissipate... and lets you flashback the non-flashback cards like Sphinx's. Kind of a big deal. Searing Spear maybe could go for Pillar of Flame also. I could care less about Thought Scour getting in but you need Snapcasters and Pillars IMO. I strongly suggest them, yadda yadda. 



I have Pillar of Flame in the sideboard for dealing with zombie decks. I find Searing Spear fills in for it better in most cases, Burning Vengeance can kill off anything with 1 or 2 toughness easily so I only really need them when the exile clause is required, otherwise the instant speed and extra damage make Spear better for the most part.

Like I said earlier, the lack of Snapcaster Mage is just because of budget concerns. If I get my hands on some they'll find their way in but in the mean time the deck is working without them.
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Your oppenents will certainly board out all creature removal against this deck.

They might board out things like Abrupt Decay, but a Boros or Rakdos aggro deck would keep Searing Spear. I would in any case.

Your oppenents will certainly board out all creature removal against this deck.

They might board out things like Abrupt Decay, but a Boros or Rakdos aggro deck would keep Searing Spear. I would in any case.



Abrupt Decay should be sided in against this deck.
c]Abrupt Decay[/c] should be sided in against this deck.

For Burning Vengeance? Bad example then. Should have said something like Victim of Night.

Your oppenents will certainly board out all creature removal against this deck.

They might board out things like Abrupt Decay, but a Boros or Rakdos aggro deck would keep Searing Spear. I would in any case.




This is why I don't board them in against RDW or any other burn heavy deck. I bring them in when my opponent is playing dedicated creature removal like Victim of Night or Ultimate Price.
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Remembered that Purify the Grave is a card. Replacing Counterflux in the sideboard to help against reanimator.
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