Tiefling Fire Elementalist (surprised?)

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EDIT: Thanks for all who've posted in here.  Current status and questions are located in post #56.


I've got a number of questions that I'm going to ask after the build.  Note, though that it's under 2 restrictions: 1) No theme, and 2) Nothing from setting specific books/articles (FR, Eberron, Dark Sun, etc)

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Qirun, level 6
Tiefling, Sorcerer (Elementalist)
Elemental Specialty Option: Fire Elementalist
Hellfire Heir (Learn Supernal)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 19, DEX 13, INT 11, WIS 10, CHA 19

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 16, DEX 13, INT 11, WIS 10, CHA 16


AC: 18 Fort: 18 Ref: 15 Will: 20
HP: 56 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +9, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +12, Endurance +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Athletics +2, Dungeoneering +3, Heal +3, History +4, Insight +3, Intimidate +8, Nature +3, Perception +3, Religion +4, Stealth +6, Streetwise +7, Thievery +4

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Tiefling Racial Power: Infernal Wrath
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt
Sorcerer Attack: Ignition
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Fire)
Sorcerer Utility 2: Spatial Trip
Sorcerer Utility 6: Sudden Scales

FEATS
Level 1: Hellfire Blood
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger)
Level 4: War Wizard's Expertise
Level 6: Implement Focus (Dagger)

ITEMS
Shimmering Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +1 x1
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (heroic tier) x1
Eagle Eye Goggles (heroic tier) x1
Adventurer's Kit
Potion of Healing
Fine Clothing
Incendiary dagger of Speed +1 x1
Backlash Tattoo x1
Potion of Mimicry (heroic tier)
Fearsome Reputation (heroic tier)
Brooch of Shielding +1 x1
====== End ======



1) As noted before, no themes, no setting specific things (that will play a role later on).  Also, Fearsome Reputation was granted as the result of a miniature quest, and, as far as he's concerned, the daily power has had the word "weapon" taken out.

2) Because of the way others are switching characters right now, I have the opportunity to rebuild him however I see fit.  So if any answers below involve multiple retrainings or ability changes, feel free to toss them in.

3) In terms of the build from here, I was thinking about the following feats:

Level 8- Superior Will
Level 10- something to retrain at 11
Level 11- Arcane Admixture (Elemental Bolt/Cold), Retrain Level 10 feat to Secrets of Belial (for Eagle's Cunning)
Level 12- Lasting Frost, Retrain Implement Focus to Fiery Blood
Level 14- Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 16- Wintertouched
Level 18- Icy Clutch of Stygia
Level 20- [Defensive feat- Improved Defenses? Dispater's Iron Discipline?]
Level 21- Quickened Spellcasting

Look good?  Something to change?

4) Alternatively, I had kind of liked the idea that has been thrown around (by Nirafelos, among others) to try and multiclass divine and pick up a Champion's Weapon to do radiant (and cold).  The problem with that is that Morninglord is an FR thing.  Am I right in thinking that not having Morninglord would make this pointless?

5) Which Paragon path?  Academy Master (assuming I can get the DM to agree that the powers work)?  Essence Mage?  Switch things around to 12 Dex/12 Wis, Multiclass Seeker at 11, and take Crimson Hunter?

6) If Essence Mage- is it worth the feat to grab Reserve Maneuver and get rid of the paragon ecounter power?  If so, is flame spiral the right move, even without forced movement?

7) Which enchantment for the main hand?  Wyrmtooth might be good for the next couple of levels, but becomes much less valuable after 10th.  Rebounding?  Wyrmtooth for now, Jagged at 12 (though the Crit feature would be obsolete, or less effective, relatively soon)?  Jagged has the advantage of allowing Ruthless Spellfury in epic with a 10% chance.  The only other ways I can see of easily getting that would be Crimson Hunter as a PP or drop CON 1, make DEX and STR both 13, and pick up Sorceror Implement Expertise at Paragon.  Or is the extra 5% to critical hit just not worth worrying about.

Many thanks to all. 
Your PP should probably be Demonskin Adept. Pending lots of party forced movement, it's your only way to get something vaguely resembling a nova.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Alternatively, you could grab a PP with a terrible e11, and powerswap for flamespiral. Both work.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Alternatively, you could grab a PP with a terrible e11, and powerswap for flamespiral. Both work.



Yeah, I like Demonskin because it is usually one more hit than FS without shenanigans, but if your party is OK at tactics go with Flame Spiral and, uhhhhhhhhhh, some other PP all the way.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
It's a ludicrously feat and item intensive way to go, but I'm highly entertained by my extremely devout Fire Elementalist/Morninglord whose EB deals Fire/Cold/Radiant due to a Crusader's Mace and Admixture, using both vulnerabilities due to Morninglord 16 and frostcheese. 

It should be noted, of course, that this isn't really optimized, just entertaining. It does do a lot of damage, but if your party had a separate morninglord, any divine MC and pervasive light would have much the same effect for muuuch less opportunity cost.  You also give up using a superior implement for this build. 

Turathi Highborn isn't all bad if you replace the encounter power - the massive damage boost vs bloodied comes up very often. Adding +2/+9 vs bloodied at level 11 is pretty sexy. 
It's a ludicrously feat and item intensive way to go, but I'm highly entertained by my extremely devout Fire Elementalist/Morninglord whose EB deals Fire/Cold/Radiant due to a Crusader's Mace and Admixture, using both vulnerabilities due to Morninglord 16 and frostcheese. 

It should be noted, of course, that this isn't really optimized, just entertaining. It does do a lot of damage, but if your party had a separate morninglord, any divine MC and pervasive light would have much the same effect for muuuch less opportunity cost.  You also give up using a superior implement for this build.



Sadly, that's not going to happen, for the same reason Morninglord won't work for me (no FR stuff allowed).

Turathi Highborn isn't all bad if you replace the encounter power - the massive damage boost vs bloodied comes up very often. Adding +2/+9 vs bloodied at level 11 is pretty sexy. 



Hm, I hadn't noticed this one- a bonus +6 damage against bloodied enemies definitely helps at 11 (as I'll be at +5 CHA bonus then, +6 at 14), and a bonus 2d6 on action points is interesting as well.  Where are you getting the +2/+9 from?

As for Armisael's comment- they're not particularly good at tactics, but there's an Illusionist mage who can probably add knock a few folks through a flame spiral. 
Here is a similar character that I built. I am sure there are ways it could be better, but it might give you a few ideas. I MC'd Wizard for fire support. Especially Burn Everything, which doesn't help a whole lot before epic, but the big thing is it turns immune into resist, and then the level 24 feature of Prince of Hell ignores resist, so basically nothing will be immune to your fire attacks.

Obviously admixing another element would take care of that, but I wanted to keep his attacks all fire. Nova turn is 4 attacks with base +48 damage, which isn't bad. Plus I took Icy Clutch of Stygia and Hellfire Master to make saving vs. ongoing fire attacks deal 33 damage. Again, I'm sure there is room for improvement, but I like it.


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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Havoc, level 30
Tiefling, Sorcerer (Elementalist), Turathi Highborn, Prince of Hell
Elemental Specialty Option: Fire Elementalist
Fire Elementalist Option: Lightning
Bolts of Bedevilment Option: Bolts of Bedevilment Charisma
Thrall of Turath Option: Thrall of Turath Charisma
God Hater (+2 to Intimidate)
Theme: Infernal Prince
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 26, DEX 13, INT 15, WIS 10, CHA 28
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 16, DEX 11, INT 13, WIS 8, CHA 16
 
 
AC: 43 Fort: 45 Ref: 41 Will: 47
HP: 183 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 45
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +22, Bluff +33, Endurance +28, Intimidate +31
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Athletics +16, Diplomacy +26, Dungeoneering +15, Heal +15, History +17, Insight +15, Nature +15, Perception +15, Religion +17, Stealth +18, Streetwise +24, Thievery +16
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Tiefling Racial Power: Infernal Wrath
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt
Sorcerer Attack: Ignition
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Fire)
Sorcerer Attack 1: Burning Spray
Sorcerer Attack 1: Arcing Fire
Wizard Attack 1: Storm Pillar
Sorcerer Utility 2: Dragonflame Mantle
Sorcerer Utility 6: Chaotic Defense
Sorcerer Utility 10: Maiden's Waking
Turathi Highborn Attack 11: Bolts of Bedevilment
Turathi Highborn Utility 12: Infernal Nova
Sorcerer Utility 16: Avatars of Chaos
Turathi Highborn Attack 20: Thrall of Turath
Runepriest Utility 22: Rune of the Hero's Resolve
Prince of Hell Utility 26: Infernal Allies
 
FEATS
Level 1: Staff Expertise
Level 2: Hellfire Blood
Level 4: Arcane Initiate
Level 6: Hellfire Arcanist
Level 8: Imperious Majesty
Level 10: Burn Everything
Level 12: Improved Defenses
Level 14: Stoking the Fire
Level 16: Icy Clutch of Stygia
Level 18: Hellfire Master
Level 21: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 21: Superior Initiative
Level 22: Quickened Spellcasting
Level 22: Secrets of Belial
Level 24: Ruthless Spellfury
Level 26: White Lotus Riposte
Level 28: White Lotus Master Riposte
Level 30: Epic Reflexes
 
ITEMS
Rhythm Blade Dagger +6 x1
Staff of Ruin +6 x1
Amulet of Life +6 x1
Eladrin Boots x1
Gauntlets of Blood (paragon tier) x1
Eagle Eye Goggles (epic tier) x1
Diamond Cincture (epic tier) x1
Elven Chain Shirt (paragon tier)
Battle Harness Dragoncloth Armor +6 x1
Executioner's Bracers (epic tier) x1
Ring of Traded Knowledge x1
Eladrin Ring of Passage x1
====== End ======
Hm, I hadn't noticed this one- a bonus +6 damage against bloodied enemies definitely helps at 11 (as I'll be at +5 CHA bonus then, +6 at 14), and a bonus 2d6 on action points is interesting as well.  Where are you getting the +2/+9 from?



For attack bonuses:
+1 from Bloodhunt Tiefling Racial
+1 from Impending Victory (at-will attacks only)
For damage:
+7 from Turathi Highborn (less if you didn't start with a 19-20, and of course starting with a 20 is probably silly. Mine was a LFR character, so I started it with a 17+2.).
+2 from Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier)


To be clear here, however, the +1+CHA damage vs bloodied is the ONLY good thing in Turathi Highborn (for elementalists). Everything else is pretty much garbage.  There are other better sources of +damage, but they're either disalowed in your game (Lyrandar Wind-Rider) or key off of the wrong stats. It's probably not the optimal choice if you're trying to solve the game, but it's better than the default elementalist PP.

I also actually managed to combo the E11 nicely with a pacifist cleric's Pacify from Messenger of Peace as well. I was weakened and the elite was insubstantial, so it was worth giving up 1/4 normal damage to stun it for a round (after it had already chosen not to attack to avoid being stunned!). 
Hm, I hadn't noticed this one- a bonus +6 damage against bloodied enemies definitely helps at 11 (as I'll be at +5 CHA bonus then, +6 at 14), and a bonus 2d6 on action points is interesting as well.  Where are you getting the +2/+9 from?



For attack bonuses:
+1 from Bloodhunt Tiefling Racial
+1 from Impending Victory (at-will attacks only)
For damage:
+7 from Turathi Highborn (less if you didn't start with a 19-20, and of course starting with a 20 is probably silly. Mine was a LFR character, so I started it with a 17+2.).
+2 from Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier)


To be clear here, however, the +1+CHA damage vs bloodied is the ONLY good thing in Turathi Highborn (for elementalists). Everything else is pretty much garbage.  There are other better sources of +damage, but they're either disalowed in your game (Lyrandar Wind-Rider) or key off of the wrong stats. It's probably not the optimal choice if you're trying to solve the game, but it's better than the default elementalist PP.



Hmm, I'd been thinking about going with Gloves of Ice, if I'm going full on frostcheese on Elemental Bolt.  Gauntlets of Blood apply only to bloodied targets.

The other PPs I was considering (until Demonskin and Turathi got tossed out there) were Academy Master and Essence Mage.  If AM works then the encounter is decent, though the same is not true on EM.

As a side point- if I do grab Reserve Maneuver/Flame Spiral, what do people think of taking Howling Zepher at 9?  It would be less accurate (non-fire/non-RBA/non-Reflex), but it would give a bit of forced movement.  As an action point nova with Turathi Highborn, the sequence could go something like:

Flame Spiral
AP
Howling Zepher (which now gets fire bonuses due to TH's action point feature)
Weapon of Speed- Elemental Bolt/Elemental Escalation

Escalation could instead be done on the Zepher if I can get enough people surrounding him, though I'd probably stop doing that after level 17 to make sure that the primary target gets hit with cold, as well. 
Awww, no Lyrandar Wind-Rider.

Demonskin Adept or Academy Master are probably the best straightforward choices on a PP then.  I tinkered with an Elementalist MC Seeker for Crimson Hunter's expanded crit range and bonus to hit, Reserve Maneuvering the e11, but decided Melegaunt's/Jagged dagger worked better.

By Epic, you want an expanded crit range to pair with Ruthless Spellfury.

Wizard multiclass is also strong, giving you access to Wizard's Wrath to strip immunities/resists for a turn, or to turn fire immunity into resistance (Burn Everything), which can be dealt with as normal.

Dispater's Iron Discipline + Superior Will lets you laugh off conditions, very worthwhile. 

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
Other than the level 16, what's so great about Demonskin?  I see the action point feature as very useful, and definitely enables your team for a turn, but Variable Resistance (the F11) is utterly useless, and there's no way to get a hold of Flame Spiral while keeping Demon-soul Bolts (and while it's an interesting triple tapper, it misses out on all the bonuses to RBAs, attacks vs. Reflex, fire, and cold, which is a lot...flame spiral at least gets fire).

I'm also still having trouble on feats, unless the general advice is to skip frostcheese.  I just don't know where you get in the Wizard multiclass and other feats while still grabbing frostcheese and the rest of the damage dealers, defensive feats, etc. 
Other than the level 16, what's so great about Demonskin?  I see the action point feature as very useful, and definitely enables your team for a turn, but Variable Resistance (the F11) is utterly useless, and there's no way to get a hold of Flame Spiral while keeping Demon-soul Bolts (and while it's an interesting triple tapper, it misses out on all the bonuses to RBAs, attacks vs. Reflex, fire, and cold, which is a lot...flame spiral at least gets fire).

I'm also still having trouble on feats, unless the general advice is to skip frostcheese.  I just don't know where you get in the Wizard multiclass and other feats while still grabbing frostcheese and the rest of the damage dealers, defensive feats, etc. 



Didn't need to go further than that. It saves a feat to not have to pick up Flame Spiral too.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).

Didn't need to go further than that. It saves a feat to not have to pick up Flame Spiral too.



True, I guess.  I guess I'm just concerned because it loses out on bonuses to hit from fire (Hellfire Blood) and vs. Reflex (Incendiary Dagger), as well as all the +fire damage, which by level 11 or 12 could easily be +7 per hit (unless I admix fire onto it, which doesn't save the feat).  Also needs to hit each time, which wouldn't be true of flame spiral in the same way.  On the other hand, for single target damage, admixing fire does make it more powerful, and the target could then be hit with a Bolt (weapon of speed) or two (action point).

Didn't need to go further than that. It saves a feat to not have to pick up Flame Spiral too.



True, I guess.  I guess I'm just concerned because it loses out on bonuses to hit from fire (Hellfire Blood) and vs. Reflex (Incendiary Dagger), as well as all the +fire damage, which by level 11 or 12 could easily be +7 per hit (unless I admix fire onto it, which doesn't save the feat).  Also needs to hit each time, which wouldn't be true of flame spiral in the same way.  On the other hand, for single target damage, admixing fire does make it more powerful, and the target could then be hit with a Bolt (weapon of speed) or two (action point).



You nailed it. It's really nice to see someone asking questions who has a clue what he's doing.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).

Didn't need to go further than that. It saves a feat to not have to pick up Flame Spiral too.



True, I guess.  I guess I'm just concerned because it loses out on bonuses to hit from fire (Hellfire Blood) and vs. Reflex (Incendiary Dagger), as well as all the +fire damage, which by level 11 or 12 could easily be +7 per hit (unless I admix fire onto it, which doesn't save the feat).  Also needs to hit each time, which wouldn't be true of flame spiral in the same way.  On the other hand, for single target damage, admixing fire does make it more powerful, and the target could then be hit with a Bolt (weapon of speed) or two (action point).



You nailed it. It's really nice to see someone asking questions who has a clue what he's doing.



Would you prefer if I phrased it as:

  On the other hand, for single target damage, admixing fire does make it more powerful, and the target could then be hit with a Bolt (weapon of speed) or two (action point)...or if positioning is right, a third bolt in Epic (Quickened Spellcasting...by which point there will have been 7 attack rolls, so better than even odds of another bolt (Ruthless Spellfury) if I'm using a jagged dagger...?"
Ruthless Spellfury only procs on At-Will power crits, not a bad feat if you have 19-20 crits and a way to roll twice; with both of that, it's not great.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Ruthless Spellfury only procs on At-Will power crits, not a bad feat if you have 19-20 crits and a way to roll twice; with both of that, it's not great.



Hadn't noticed that.  That's more of a problem for me than for others in the same position- if you have Infernal Prince, you can use Secrets of Belial to grab Borrowed Confidence.  Without it, though, it would mean a 40% chance in the best round, even in epic (with two possible minor Bolts, standard, and escalation).
At this point, I'm still undecided regarding which paragon path.  If people are willing to take a look at this list of possible feat choices, though:

Level 8- Superior Will
Level 10- something to retrain at 11
Level 11- Arcane Admixture (Elemental Bolt/Cold), Retrain Level 10 feat to Secrets of Belial (for Eagle's Cunning)
Level 12- Lasting Frost, Retrain Implement Focus to Fiery Blood
Level 14- If Turathi Highborn: Reserve Maneuver (flame spiral).  If Demonskin Adept: Arcane Admixture (demon-soul bolts, fire)
Level 16- DIS
Level 18- Icy Clutch of Stygia
Level 20- Wintertouched
Level 21- Quickened Spellcasting

That leaves him one more defensive feat short, but I'm not sure what to do about that.  I'd say drop the Wintertouched, but our DM(s) have a tendency to throw monsters about 2 levels higher than we are at us, so it feels a bit dangerous to do that for the length of an encounter.  Arcane Spellfury is another possibility, and would work on the Demon-Soul Bolts if I used Elemental Bolt first.
If you go that route.... White Lotus Enervation over Arcane Spellfury, as your allies can benefit from it as well.  Our Elementalist (in a free Expertise/ImpDef game) had WLE in Heroic and early Paragon, but found things just didn't live long enough for the benefit to come into effect that often.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
I would drop implement focus and superior will to get DIS and Icy Clutches going in heroic. Kinda early, but you want the frost stuff as quickly as possible in paragon.
If you go that route.... White Lotus Enervation over Arcane Spellfury, as your allies can benefit from it as well.  Our Elementalist (in a free Expertise/ImpDef game) had WLE in Heroic and early Paragon, but found things just didn't live long enough for the benefit to come into effect that often.


Except Bolt targets Ref and DSB targets Fort, so while some allies may benefit, his Main Attack won't.
If you go that route.... White Lotus Enervation over Arcane Spellfury, as your allies can benefit from it as well.  Our Elementalist (in a free Expertise/ImpDef game) had WLE in Heroic and early Paragon, but found things just didn't live long enough for the benefit to come into effect that often.


Except Bolt targets Ref and DSB targets Fort, so while some allies may benefit, his Main Attack won't.



Exactly.  The idea would be to lead the attack with Elemental Bolt instead of Demon-Skin, which would then throw in the +1 to hit, and possibly bloody them as well (another +1 to hit).  If I'm going: Action point, elemental bolt (escalated), elemental bolt (minor/WoS), demon-skin, the goal is to have it dead at the end.

As far as DIS and Icy Clutch goes- there's only so much faster I can get them; IF was going for Fiery Blood.  Superior Will could be delayed, but he then pretty much fits the definition of Glass Cannon.  If I can get a Steadfast Amulet and grab Maiden's Waking at 10, that at least provides some protection from stuns, etc.

After a long gap thinking about it (and trying unsuccessfully to lobby the group to allow the use of themes), here's what I'm looking at, at level 7 and hitting level 8 after the next session:

*PP Demonskin Adept
*Desired main hand implement: Melegaunt's Darkblade if I can get it, Jagged Dagger if not, for extra Blinding at level 16 and more potential of Ruthless Spellfury in early Epic
 
Feats:

Level 8- Superior Will
Level 10- something to retrain at 11
Level 11- Arcane Admixture (Demon Soul Bolts/Fire), Retrain Level 10 feat to Secrets of Belial (for Eagle's Cunning)
Level 12- Lasting Frost, Retrain Implement Focus to Arcane Admixture (Elemental Bolt, Cold)
Level 14- Fiery Blood
Level 16- DIS
Level 18- Icy Clutch of Stygia
Level 20- ?
Level 21- Quickened Spellcasting 

Questions:
1) Is Superior Will a necessity for high heroic/low paragon, or should I grab something else there and pick it up later?  Arcane Spellfury?  DIS (though the Weapon of Speed is currently still a +1)?  I would have Maiden's Waking starting at 10, if that makes any difference.

2) Am I best off going with Lasting Frost?  I think the answer's yes, even though DSB generally won't trigger it, unless I've used a Frost Whetstone.  EB would, Elemental Escalation's ongoing at 17 would, Jagged Dagger (if that's what I have) would, and Icy Clutch would.  I guess the alternative would be Echoes of Thunder, and it would apply to new targets and DSB, but it feels worse in this case since it's only on rolls.

3) If the answer to 2 is yes, Gloves of Ice or Gauntlets of Blood?

4) Is it worth the 2 feats it would take in at level in Epic to pick up a multiclass to swordmage and Acolyte Power for Borrowed Confidence?  It feels like Eagle's Splendor is the best option for Secrets of Belial all the way through- am I actually wrong about that?  Would retraining SoB-Eagle's Splendor for SoB-Borrowed Confidence and taking Arcane Spellfury be better, at one fewer feat?  Note that this isn't an issue for those who can take Infernal Prince; it's solely a problem because I can't get that.

5) Alternatively, is there a better option than the expanded Crit range from the primary dagger?  It seems like that's still the best option, but I could be wrong.
Here is a similar character that I built. I am sure there are ways it could be better, but it might give you a few ideas. I MC'd Wizard for fire support. Especially Burn Everything, which doesn't help a whole lot before epic, but the big thing is it turns immune into resist, and then the level 24 feature of Prince of Hell ignores resist, so basically nothing will be immune to your fire attacks.

Obviously admixing another element would take care of that, but I wanted to keep his attacks all fire. Nova turn is 4 attacks with base +48 damage, which isn't bad. Plus I took Icy Clutch of Stygia and Hellfire Master to make saving vs. ongoing fire attacks deal 33 damage. Again, I'm sure there is room for improvement, but I like it.



With Dual Implement Expertise, a Cinder Wand of Fire, a Dagger of Speed, along some the Bracers of the Perfect Shot, Hellfire Blood, Fiery Blood and Academy Master you can have a nova round of 5 attacks (if you include the Master Riposte), with a base +58 damage, except one minor action Elemental Bolt through the dagger with base +54 damage. MultiClass into Warlock because Warlock Implement Expertise is easy to get with CHA and CON, so you do not need to invest in other abilities. White Lotus Dueling Expertise is also helpful. 
This is what I had in mind:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Brimstone, level 30
Tiefling, Sorcerer (Elementalist), Academy Master, Draconic Incarnation
Elemental Specialty Option: Fire Elementalist
Fire Elementalist Option: Lightning
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Thunder
Pact Initiate Option: Pact Initiate (infernal pact)
Ancient Resurgence Option: Charisma
Ancient Resurgence Option: Constitution
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
Theme: Infernal Prince
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 26, DEX 13, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 30
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 11, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 18
 
 
AC: 40 Fort: 39 Ref: 32 Will: 49
HP: 187 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 46
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +23, Bluff +34, Endurance +28, Intimidate +32, Streetwise +30
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +16, Athletics +16, Diplomacy +27, Dungeoneering +15, Heal +15, History +16, Insight +15, Nature +15, Perception +21, Religion +16, Stealth +18, Thievery +16
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Tiefling Racial Power: Infernal Wrath
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt
Sorcerer Attack: Blazing Cloud
Sorcerer Attack: Ignition
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Fire)
Sorcerer Attack 1: Acid Orb
Warlock Attack 1: Hellish Rebuke
Endurance Utility 2: Grit and Spittle
Sorcerer Utility 6: Chaos Wager
Sorcerer Utility 10: Maiden's Waking
Academy Master Attack 11: Learned Boost
Academy Master Utility 12: Refined Recall
Tiefling Utility 16: Eternal Returns
Endurance Utility 16: Diehard
Academy Master Attack 20: Master's Surge
Swordmage Attack 25: Quicksilver Blade
Bard Attack 25: Frenzied Rhythm
Draconic Incarnation Attack 26: Draconic Form
 
FEATS
Level 4: Hellfire Blood
Level 6: Imperious Majesty
Level 8: White Lotus Riposte
Level 11: Fiery Blood
Level 11: White Lotus Master Riposte
Level 12: Superior Will
Level 14: Dispater's Iron Discipline
Level 16: Arcane Admixture
Level 18: Pact Initiate
Level 20: Superior Implement Training (Cinder wand)
Level 20: White Lotus Dueling Expertise
Level 21: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 21: Quickened Spellcasting
Level 22: Warlock Implement Expertise
Level 24: Sorcerous Blade Channeling
Level 26: Sorcerous Flux
Level 28: Hellfire Teleport
Level 30: Ruthless Spellfury
 
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit
Eagle Eye Goggles (heroic tier)
Flame Bracers (paragon tier)
Dagger of Speed +6 x1
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (epic tier) x1
Fire Horn
Eagle Eye Goggles (epic tier) x1
Cinder wand of Fire +6 x1
Cloak of Translocation +6 x1
Boots of Teleportation x1
Ring of Free Time x1
Sash of Regeneration x1
Ring of Fury x1
Gauntlets of Blood (epic tier) x1
Greater Dragoncloth Armor of Eyes +6 x1
====== End ======
The_Move

Your idea is interesting, but it does a few things I'm not sure I'm so comfortable with:

1) It's delaying a lot of the damaging stuff until later.  It really feels like an Epic only build (though I suppose you might have other stuff earlier- I can't tell what you're retraining out of to grab the Cinder Wand).

2) You're relying on the enemy being dumb enough to hit you.  WLMR is nice, but they have to smack you.  Note that it's an Immediate Reaction, so you can't intentionally draw them into an Opportunity Attack- no Immediate Actions on your turn.  I'm also not entirely sure where you're getting a base of 58 from, unless you're assuming that you always get +6 from Gauntlets of Blood.  Personally, I'd rate them at +3, since you need the enemy to be bloodied.

3) Your equipment is pretty expensive.  I'm getting a total value for you of over 19.75 million, which is more than what you'd get after adventuring from level 1-30.  I don't think you need to go down to the 11 million or so that is 2x level 30 items and 1x level 29, and gold=29, but perhaps dropping down to around 18 million might be more appropriate.

As an alternative, see this build, which I just threw together from some ideas I've had. It uses about 14 million gold, for reference (could easily go higher by upgrading the Elven Chain or the Diamong Cincture and by taking Greater Armor of Eyes instead of Robe of Eyes).

Show


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Qirun Epicified, level 30
Tiefling, Sorcerer (Elementalist), Demonskin Adept, Destined Scion
Elemental Specialty Option: Fire Elementalist
Fire Elementalist Option: Thunder
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Cold
Arcane Admixture II Option: Arcane Admixture Fire II
Epic Heroism Option: Charisma
Epic Heroism Option: Constitution
Akanûl (Akanûl Benefit)
Theme: Infernal Prince

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 28, DEX 15, INT 10, WIS 13, CHA 28

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 16, DEX 13, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 16


AC: 43 Fort: 46 Ref: 33 Will: 48
HP: 185 Surges: 15 Surge Value: 46

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Bluff +33, Diplomacy +31, Endurance +29, Religion +20

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Athletics +16, Dungeoneering +16, Heal +16, History +15, Insight +16, Intimidate +24, Nature +16, Perception +22, Stealth +19, Streetwise +24, Thievery +17

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Tiefling Racial Power: Infernal Wrath
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt
Sorcerer Attack: Blazing Cloud
Sorcerer Attack: Ignition
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Fire)
Avenger Feature: Oath of Enmity
Sorcerer Attack 1: Ensorcelled Blade
Sorcerer Utility 2: Spatial Trip
Sorcerer Utility 6: Sudden Scales
Sorcerer Utility 10: Maiden's Waking
Demonskin Adept Attack 11: Demon-Soul Bolts
Demonskin Adept Utility 12: Demonic Wrath
Swordmage Utility 16: Borrowed Confidence
Demonskin Adept Attack 20: Swords of the Marilith
Sorcerer Utility 22: Wind Shape
Destined Scion Utility 26: Epic Recovery
Destined Scion Utility 30: Undeniable Victory

FEATS
Fiery Blood
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger)
Level 2: War Wizard's Expertise
Level 4: Hellfire Blood
Level 8: Superior Will
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 12: Arcane Admixture II
Level 14: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 16: Sorcerous Blade Channeling
Level 18: Secrets of Belial
Level 20: Icy Clutch of Stygia
Level 21: Quickened Spellcasting
Level 22: Ruthless Spellfury
Level 24: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 26: Epic Resurgence
Level 28: Superior Fortitude
Level 30: Hellfire Teleport

ITEMS
Incendiary dagger of Speed +6 x1
Melegaunt's Darkblade Incendiary dagger +6 x1
Torc of Power Preservation +6 x1
Robe of Eyes Mindpatterned Armor +6 x1
Ring of Free Time x1
Gloves of Ice (epic tier) x1
Eagle Eye Goggles (epic tier) x1
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (epic tier) x1
Diamond Cincture (paragon tier) x1
Ring of Giants x1
Eladrin Boots x1
Elven Chain Shirt (paragon tier)
Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (epic tier)
Backlash Tattoo
Solitaire (Aquamarine)
Diplomat's Scabbard
Ruby Scabbard
Handy Haversack
Five Stars Five Strikes
Salve of Power
====== End ======



Notes:
1) Background of Akanul, since he wouldn't benefit from AB/BUABS.  Instead he gets Akanul.  With it, by level 30 Qirun's fire resistance has reached 25 and thunder resistance 15, along with resist 5 cold.

2) Defenses are reasonably high.  AC is 43, which isn't too terrible for a ranged character.  I took Superior Fortitude late, though you could easily replace that with some other feat; I just disliked having his Fort. that low.  Improved Defenses is not worth it: his Reflex is actually so low that enemies should auto-hit (less critical misses); ID would require them to get a 3 (so only a 10% increase in defenses, not even 15%).  Not worth it.

3) He does have a couple of ways to boost his defenses when necessary- Sudden Scales works nicely, and when necessary, Diplomat's Scabbard.

4) Since we seem to be discussing Epic numbers: including the Shards, Qirun is at +40 vs. Reflex on an Elemental Bolt with either weapon, +62 static damage, and the potential is there for Lasting Frost.

5) If he doesn't have to move (this will obviously vary given the situation), Qirun's AP nova looks like this starting in mid-Paragon:
Action Point (conferring benefits/detriments of Demonskin Adept)
Minor action: Borrowed Confidence
Standard Action: Demon Soul Bolts.  Each is rolled twice on.  Note that a crit with Melegaunt's Darkblade adds Cold damage, so Lasting Frost would be invoked right then.
Minor Action: Elemental Bolt (if in epic, use the Quickened Spellcasting one).
Standard Action: Elemental Bolt, Elemental Escalation.

You've now had 5 attacks against one creature, with base bonuses of 52, 52, 52, 62, 62 (these are at 30, but I can provide the numbers at 16, 21, etc).  You've rolled twice in each case, and with the action point, need no more than about a 3 to hit (the number is slightly higher at levels 19-20).  You've also gotten a +5 from Lasting Frost at least once (if not more).  If you rolled a critical hit on DSB or on the minor action Elemental Bolt, then you've also gotten to regain DSB via Epic Resurgence, starting at 24.  If you rolled one on Elemental Bolt, you've gotten a free action elemental bolt, in addition, starting at 22.

Depending on what you're expecting from your enemy, and on whether you've gotten a crit, etc, you might actually want to target the minor action bolt elsewhere to avoid overkill.

If you find that you are already in melee before you get a chance to go, and it applies: use Oath of Enmity instead of Borrowed Confidence.

If you find that you need to move, either now or later in the encounter, use Five Stars Five Strikes.  You can always combine that with Oath of Enmity or Borrowed Confidence later in the encounter; you might not do completely destructive damage, but you will have at least 10 rolls with which to attempt to blind them (your level 16 feature).

Note that some parts of this build are variable; you could potentially start with the 11 in Strength, and sacrifice two of the CON upgrades, in order to grab Sorcerous Implement Expertise.  I just don't think that bargain is worth it.

There are multiple ways to regain DSB.  Torc of Power Preservation, Salve of Power, and Epic Resurgence all allow doing so.  Note also that the Solitaire and Ruthless Spellfury both allow getting a free action EB on a Crit, though obviously you can only use one per turn.

The big, no movement, silly nova at 30:
AP
Borrowed Confidence
Demon Soul Bolts
Either Epic Resurgence (if you critted) or Torc of Power Preservation (if you didn't)
Demon Soul Bolts
Weapon of Speed minor
Quickened Spellcasting minor w/Escalation
Free crit-based attack (you're rolling 18 attack rolls, so you should darn well have one whether it's from the Solitaire or not).

Total noncrit base damage: 52+52+52+52+52+52+62+67= 441.  Assuming you managed the free action attack, 508.
Plus an additional: 4d12+3d10 (assuming Escalation) +1d6+6d8=26+16.5+3.5+27 average=73 on average, 581.
Assuming one crit in there (which we already have), another 6d6+12=33

For a total of 614, the target is blinded, you have -3 to defenses and your allies have +3 to attack.

Depending on how that all went down, you've probably killed it (unless it's a solo or an Elite Brute).  If it's not dead yet, you should have DSB back yet again for the following turn.  If necessary, on the next round, use it with Oath of Enmity and FSFS for another 14 attack rolls, which should blind the target again.

Finally- if your DM is the kind to let you prep for a fight, remember that Frozen Whetstones are your friend. 
CHA (+10)
Elementalist Bonus 8+CON (+16)
Cinder Wand of Fire (+6 & energized +4 = +10) 
Dagger of Speed (+6) 
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (+6)
Fundamental Mastery  (+5)
Fiery Blood (+4)
Hellfire Blood (+1) 
= +58

The +58 damage is without the Gauntlets of Blood. With them you're at +64. And don't forget the Chaos Wager if an ally has his turn before you do or if you have a Battlefield Archer with Combined Fire in your party. If not it's still nice beefing up possibly WLMR, Infernal Wrath and your second turn with it. Sudden Scales is not really helpful with that low AC.

One minor action Elemental Bolt is carried out through the Dagger of Speed (Encounter Power). That's why one attack is missing the Energized bonus (+4), therefore +54. Yes, I am counting on being attacked and hit, especially because of the low armor and further because to pull off Elemental Escalation at two targets you'll have to come quite near your targets (5 squares for the second). Even better, so I can use Infernal Wrath (3d6+15) in combination with WLMR, if I get hit. But even if the enemy misses me, I can still pull off WLMR, so it isn't that difficult to achieve. And don't forget the vanilla White Lotus Riposte (10 Damage) itself.

Arcane Underpinning and the higher CHA (30) helps with the accuracy, especially after the first shot. I am not fond of MC Oath of Emnity, because while it's really helpful on solos it is quite less useful in encounters with multiple foes, where you'll have to switch your target more often than you like (Early finishing off normals or monsters already wounded by other party members). And those encounters might be the majority. On the other hand going for a full health normal/elite while leaving an already wounded aside might help in exploiting the oath a lttle better, but tactically it's not judicious. So an 1/Encounter Oath is not flexible enough IMHO. AND you need a minor action to place it, so a Ring of free Time is neccessary.

About the equipment, I thought this is the optimization forum and not the economy forum. It's all theoretical. If you take such things into account, you should also take into account, that a tiefling is of an infernal (devil) bloodline, not a demon. So Demonskin Adept is kind of "unfluffy". A Devilskin adept isn't available, unfortunately. Btw. the Demonskin AP feat will most likely make monsters attack you. Another good chance of WLMR, don't you agree.

About your question, what is before the Dual Implement Expertise, well, until epic the char ran with an accurate staff of ruin and without the Bracers of the Perfect Shot. Still pretty capable during heroic and paragon tier. Retraining ftw. While I am convinced that your built might be able to deal some more damage during the first round, I am still confindent that mine still reaches the ominous "benchmark" and with Eternal Returns and Spirit of the Dragon I have 2 measures per day to cheat death, which suits my risky style.

Edit: Btw. If Learned Boost and Master's Surge are considered valid and working, you have access to a maximized (Cinder Wand of Fire) 6d12+3d10+1d6+58(+15 with Chaos Wager) 'escalated' Elemental Bolt. That's 166/181 damage. If you manage to crit, the Cinder Wand of Fire provides a high crit bonus. That would be 6d8+3d10+166/181. Even one of the minor action Elemental Bolts still crits for 6d8+3d10+76/91 damage.So it might catch up with your build occassionally.
And don't forget the Chaos Wager if an ally has his turn before you do or if you have a Battlefield Archer with Combined Fire in your party. If not it's still nice beefing up possibly WLMR, Infernal Wrath and your second turn with it. Sudden Scales is not really helpful with that low AC.



Sudden Scales is with all defenses, but I take your point about Chaos Wager.  And WLMR is very nice- it's delaying some of the other stuff until Epic that I'm not sure I like, and to pick up WLR, WLMR, and Imperious Majesty, we're talking about 3 feats that need to be delayed/eliminated.


Arcane Underpinning and the higher CHA (30) helps with the accuracy, especially after the first shot. I am not fond of MC Oath of Emnity, because while it's really helpful on solos it is quite less useful in encounters with multiple foes, where you'll have to switch your target more often than you like (Early finishing off normals or monsters already wounded by other party members). And those encounters might be the majority. On the other hand going for a full health normal/elite while leaving an already wounded aside might help in exploiting the oath a lttle better, but tactically it's not judicious. So an 1/Encounter Oath is not flexible enough IMHO.



Probably true; it's just something I've been toying with.  Secrets of Belial for Borrowed Confidence is probably enough in that regard.

About the equipment, I thought this is the optimization forum and not the economy forum. It's all theoretical. If you take such things into account, you should also take into account, that a tiefling is of an infernal (devil) bloodline, not a demon. So Demonskin Adept is kind of "unfluffy". A Devilskin adept isn't available, unfortunately. Btw. the Demonskin AP feat will most likely make monsters attack you. Another good chance of WLMR, don't you agree.



I don't consider equipment and gold value to be fluff.  Theory-op is lovely; practical op requires fitting into the standard treasure that a character will get.  That means that 2 level 30 items, 3 level 29s, and 2 level 28s just don't work.

About your question, what is before the Dual Implement Expertise, well, until epic the char ran with an accurate staff of ruin and without the Bracers of the Perfect Shot. Still pretty capable during heroic and paragon tier. Retraining ftw. While I am convinced that your built might be able to deal some more damage during the first round, I am still confindent that mine still reaches the ominous "benchmark" and with Eternal Returns and Spirit of the Dragon I have 2 measures per day to cheat death, which suits my risky style.

Edit: Btw. If Learned Boost and Master's Surge are considered valid and working, you have access to a maximized (Cinder Wand of Fire) 6d12+3d10+1d6+58(+15 with Chaos Wager) 'escalated' Elemental Bolt. That's 166/181 damage. If you manage to crit, the Cinder Wand of Fire provides a high crit bonus. That would be 6d8+3d10+166/181. Even one of the minor action Elemental Bolts still crits for 6d8+3d10+76/91 damage.So it might catch up with your build occassionally.



I think the most frustrating thing about the Elementalist is that it's almost there.  It easily does 20/40/60 damage at will, and can just brush 30/60/90 (especially if you measure at 21 instead of 20, since it gets a lot of benefit there).  But you have to pull out pretty much all the tricks to do it.  It can easily (with Weapon of Speed) blow away a Standard with an Action Point nova, and can, on average, kill a Standard without one as well (in theory, the odds of a crit are high enough with Borrowed Confidence that a Demonskin Adept one could do so without using both of his minor action Bolts in a turn).  It can, in theory, kill an Elite by the end of its career with a "daily" nova, but not really before, and even then, it's questionable.  The bottom line is that it really needs one more good push to get it over the top, and it doesn't have that push.*

*Lyrandar Windrider actually might have enough of a push...erm, slide.  But that's pushing even further afield into the "will a DM really let you have this?"

Quick edit that I forgot to mention: even without Lyrandar, admixturing Lightning instead of Cold may be worthwhile.  You don't get the autodamage benefit on ongoing damage or WLR, but you can go with Gifts for the Queen and pick up a bonus that doesn't require having already hit, and get Ring of the Radiant Storm, which actually adds a fairly sizeable amount of damage in Epic because of how many dice you're rolling.  I haven't run the numbers, though.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Sudden Scales is with all defenses, but I take your point about Chaos Wager.  And WLMR is very nice- it's delaying some of the other stuff until Epic that I'm not sure I like, and to pick up WLR, WLMR, and Imperious Majesty, we're talking about 3 feats that need to be delayed/eliminated.


I am not sure I am following you on this one. What Do you mean by "delaying until epic" and "needs to be delayed/eliminated"?

About the equipment, I thought this is the optimization forum and not the economy forum. It's all theoretical. If you take such things into account, you should also take into account, that a tiefling is of an infernal (devil) bloodline, not a demon. So Demonskin Adept is kind of "unfluffy". A Devilskin adept isn't available, unfortunately. Btw. the Demonskin AP feat will most likely make monsters attack you. Another good chance of WLMR, don't you agree.


Well, you are not bound to end your career upon reaching lvl 30. You can still continue. And it also depends on the generosity of your DM.

I think the most frustrating thing about the Elementalist is that it's almost there.  It easily does 20/40/60 damage at will, and can just brush 30/60/90 (especially if you measure at 21 instead of 20, since it gets a lot of benefit there).  But you have to pull out pretty much all the tricks to do it.  It can easily (with Weapon of Speed) blow away a Standard with an Action Point nova, and can, on average, kill a Standard without one as well (in theory, the odds of a crit are high enough with Borrowed Confidence that a Demonskin Adept one could do so without using both of his minor action Bolts in a turn).  It can, in theory, kill an Elite by the end of its career with a "daily" nova, but not really before, and even then, it's questionable.  The bottom line is that it really needs one more good push to get it over the top, and it doesn't have that push.*


I think that's with pretty much all E-classes. IMHO many O-strikers have a better chance of achieving 30/60/90, because their increase in damage capabilities can be considered exponential, thanks to dailies (Ranger's Five Missile Dance anyone?), while the E-strikers develop quite linear with having a stronger start (slayer bonus, elemtalist bonus, etc.). I personally think E-strikers were not intended to reach 30/60/90, but should always reach or exceed 20/40/60 with ease.
    Given all the [over]love it usually gets, DIS is being rather neglected here.  It should be the 8th level choice instead of Superior will.  Granted, SW is quite useful defense, but will attacts are relatively less common, and will often be targeted at those with poorer defenses than you.  And you are a striker, and want that extra damage.  Maybe delay until 10th, but not much longer.
DIS doesn't make too much sense before mid paragon. And Superior Will is extra damage, since being controlled = less damage.
Agreed with Pinkisthenewred- assuming that you're upgrading the off-hand weapon at its level, at level 8 it adds +1 to damage.  In straight damage numbers, that puts it down below Weapon Focus pretty much until Epic, below Fiery Blood until mid-Epic, below pretty much anything that adds to accuracy until Epic, below Lasting Frost until pretty much the end, below Superior Implement until Epic, below...

I could go on and on, but I don't need to.  When you hit mid-paragon and DIS is worth +3 per hit, then it's quite useful.  Until then, there's generally better stuff out there.
@masteraleph

Btw. about your combo, it relies on either Epic Resurgence (only working with the first attack roll) or the Torc of Power Preservation (Daily). What if you've already used the daily and Epic Resurgence does not trigger. A bit too unreliable for my taste.
@masteraleph

Btw. about your combo, it relies on either Epic Resurgence (only working with the first attack roll) or the Torc of Power Preservation (Daily). What if you've already used the daily and Epic Resurgence does not trigger. A bit too unreliable for my taste.



@all

Since you can also trade PP utilities with Secrets of Belial, does anyone know of really good utilities of lvl 12 and below? So far I've found "Pact Keeper's Pledge" (Master Binder PP) quite nice. It's daily, but quite versatile.
The_Move

Your idea is interesting, but it does a few things I'm not sure I'm so comfortable with:

1) It's delaying a lot of the damaging stuff until later.  It really feels like an Epic only build (though I suppose you might have other stuff earlier- I can't tell what you're retraining out of to grab the Cinder Wand).

2) You're relying on the enemy being dumb enough to hit you.  WLMR is nice, but they have to smack you.  Note that it's an Immediate Reaction, so you can't intentionally draw them into an Opportunity Attack- no Immediate Actions on your turn.  I'm also not entirely sure where you're getting a base of 58 from, unless you're assuming that you always get +6 from Gauntlets of Blood.  Personally, I'd rate them at +3, since you need the enemy to be bloodied.

3) Your equipment is pretty expensive.  I'm getting a total value for you of over 19.75 million, which is more than what you'd get after adventuring from level 1-30.  I don't think you need to go down to the 11 million or so that is 2x level 30 items and 1x level 29, and gold=29, but perhaps dropping down to around 18 million might be more appropriate.

As an alternative, see this build, which I just threw together from some ideas I've had. It uses about 14 million gold, for reference (could easily go higher by upgrading the Elven Chain or the Diamong Cincture and by taking Greater Armor of Eyes instead of Robe of Eyes).

Show


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Qirun Epicified, level 30
Tiefling, Sorcerer (Elementalist), Demonskin Adept, Destined Scion
Elemental Specialty Option: Fire Elementalist
Fire Elementalist Option: Thunder
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Cold
Arcane Admixture II Option: Arcane Admixture Fire II
Epic Heroism Option: Charisma
Epic Heroism Option: Constitution
Akanûl (Akanûl Benefit)
Theme: Infernal Prince

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 12, CON 28, DEX 15, INT 10, WIS 13, CHA 28

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 16, DEX 13, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 16


AC: 43 Fort: 46 Ref: 33 Will: 48
HP: 185 Surges: 15 Surge Value: 46

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Bluff +33, Diplomacy +31, Endurance +29, Religion +20

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Athletics +16, Dungeoneering +16, Heal +16, History +15, Insight +16, Intimidate +24, Nature +16, Perception +22, Stealth +19, Streetwise +24, Thievery +17

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Infernal Prince Attack: Hellfire Heart
Tiefling Racial Power: Infernal Wrath
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt
Sorcerer Attack: Blazing Cloud
Sorcerer Attack: Ignition
Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Fire)
Avenger Feature: Oath of Enmity
Sorcerer Attack 1: Ensorcelled Blade
Sorcerer Utility 2: Spatial Trip
Sorcerer Utility 6: Sudden Scales
Sorcerer Utility 10: Maiden's Waking
Demonskin Adept Attack 11: Demon-Soul Bolts
Demonskin Adept Utility 12: Demonic Wrath
Swordmage Utility 16: Borrowed Confidence
Demonskin Adept Attack 20: Swords of the Marilith
Sorcerer Utility 22: Wind Shape
Destined Scion Utility 26: Epic Recovery
Destined Scion Utility 30: Undeniable Victory

FEATS
Fiery Blood
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Incendiary dagger)
Level 2: War Wizard's Expertise
Level 4: Hellfire Blood
Level 8: Superior Will
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 12: Arcane Admixture II
Level 14: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 16: Sorcerous Blade Channeling
Level 18: Secrets of Belial
Level 20: Icy Clutch of Stygia
Level 21: Quickened Spellcasting
Level 22: Ruthless Spellfury
Level 24: Disciple of Divine Wrath
Level 26: Epic Resurgence
Level 28: Superior Fortitude
Level 30: Hellfire Teleport

ITEMS
Incendiary dagger of Speed +6 x1
Melegaunt's Darkblade Incendiary dagger +6 x1
Torc of Power Preservation +6 x1
Robe of Eyes Mindpatterned Armor +6 x1
Ring of Free Time x1
Gloves of Ice (epic tier) x1
Eagle Eye Goggles (epic tier) x1
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (epic tier) x1
Diamond Cincture (paragon tier) x1
Ring of Giants x1
Eladrin Boots x1
Elven Chain Shirt (paragon tier)
Khyber Shard of the Fiery Depth (epic tier)
Backlash Tattoo
Solitaire (Aquamarine)
Diplomat's Scabbard
Ruby Scabbard
Handy Haversack
Five Stars Five Strikes
Salve of Power
====== End ======



Notes:
1) Background of Akanul, since he wouldn't benefit from AB/BUABS.  Instead he gets Akanul.  With it, by level 30 Qirun's fire resistance has reached 25 and thunder resistance 15, along with resist 5 cold.

2) Defenses are reasonably high.  AC is 43, which isn't too terrible for a ranged character.  I took Superior Fortitude late, though you could easily replace that with some other feat; I just disliked having his Fort. that low.  Improved Defenses is not worth it: his Reflex is actually so low that enemies should auto-hit (less critical misses); ID would require them to get a 3 (so only a 10% increase in defenses, not even 15%).  Not worth it.

3) He does have a couple of ways to boost his defenses when necessary- Sudden Scales works nicely, and when necessary, Diplomat's Scabbard.

4) Since we seem to be discussing Epic numbers: including the Shards, Qirun is at +40 vs. Reflex on an Elemental Bolt with either weapon, +62 static damage, and the potential is there for Lasting Frost.

5) If he doesn't have to move (this will obviously vary given the situation), Qirun's AP nova looks like this starting in mid-Paragon:
Action Point (conferring benefits/detriments of Demonskin Adept)
Minor action: Borrowed Confidence
Standard Action: Demon Soul Bolts.  Each is rolled twice on.  Note that a crit with Melegaunt's Darkblade adds Cold damage, so Lasting Frost would be invoked right then.
Minor Action: Elemental Bolt (if in epic, use the Quickened Spellcasting one).
Standard Action: Elemental Bolt, Elemental Escalation.

You've now had 5 attacks against one creature, with base bonuses of 52, 52, 52, 62, 62 (these are at 30, but I can provide the numbers at 16, 21, etc).  You've rolled twice in each case, and with the action point, need no more than about a 3 to hit (the number is slightly higher at levels 19-20).  You've also gotten a +5 from Lasting Frost at least once (if not more).  If you rolled a critical hit on DSB or on the minor action Elemental Bolt, then you've also gotten to regain DSB via Epic Resurgence, starting at 24.  If you rolled one on Elemental Bolt, you've gotten a free action elemental bolt, in addition, starting at 22.

Depending on what you're expecting from your enemy, and on whether you've gotten a crit, etc, you might actually want to target the minor action bolt elsewhere to avoid overkill.

If you find that you are already in melee before you get a chance to go, and it applies: use Oath of Enmity instead of Borrowed Confidence.

If you find that you need to move, either now or later in the encounter, use Five Stars Five Strikes.  You can always combine that with Oath of Enmity or Borrowed Confidence later in the encounter; you might not do completely destructive damage, but you will have at least 10 rolls with which to attempt to blind them (your level 16 feature).

Note that some parts of this build are variable; you could potentially start with the 11 in Strength, and sacrifice two of the CON upgrades, in order to grab Sorcerous Implement Expertise.  I just don't think that bargain is worth it.

There are multiple ways to regain DSB.  Torc of Power Preservation, Salve of Power, and Epic Resurgence all allow doing so.  Note also that the Solitaire and Ruthless Spellfury both allow getting a free action EB on a Crit, though obviously you can only use one per turn.

The big, no movement, silly nova at 30:
AP
Borrowed Confidence
Demon Soul Bolts
Either Epic Resurgence (if you critted) or Torc of Power Preservation (if you didn't) 
Demon Soul Bolts
Weapon of Speed minor
Quickened Spellcasting minor w/Escalation
Free crit-based attack (you're rolling 18 attack rolls, so you should darn well have one whether it's from the Solitaire or not).

Total noncrit base damage: 52+52+52+52+52+52+62+67= 441.  Assuming you managed the free action attack, 508.
Plus an additional: 4d12+3d10 (assuming Escalation) +1d6+6d8=26+16.5+3.5+27 average=73 on average, 581.
Assuming one crit in there (which we already have), another 6d6+12=33

For a total of 614, the target is blinded, you have -3 to defenses and your allies have +3 to attack.

Depending on how that all went down, you've probably killed it (unless it's a solo or an Elite Brute).  If it's not dead yet, you should have DSB back yet again for the following turn.  If necessary, on the next round, use it with Oath of Enmity and FSFS for another 14 attack rolls, which should blind the target again.

Finally- if your DM is the kind to let you prep for a fight, remember that Frozen Whetstones are your friend. 


This build doesn't work the way you want it to work, btw. Neither Five Stars Five Strikes nor Oath of Enmity work with non-melee powers.
And you seem to believe that a melee attack is any attack that's made when the target is adjacent to you. That is wrong. Melee is a keyword. 


@masteraleph

Btw. about your combo, it relies on either Epic Resurgence (only working with the first attack roll) or the Torc of Power Preservation (Daily). What if you've already used the daily and Epic Resurgence does not trigger. A bit too unreliable for my taste.



Wrong. Epic Resurgence can trigger from every roll in Demon-soul Bolt's case, as long as you're targetting the same creature with every attack.

@masteraleph

Btw. about your combo, it relies on either Epic Resurgence (only working with the first attack roll) or the Torc of Power Preservation (Daily). What if you've already used the daily and Epic Resurgence does not trigger. A bit too unreliable for my taste.

 

@all

Since you can also trade PP utilities with Secrets of Belial, does anyone know of really good utilities of lvl 12 and below? So far I've found "Pact Keeper's Pledge" (Master Binder PP) quite nice. It's daily, but quite versatile.



And again, you are wrong. You can only trade in Utility Powers from other classes. PPs are not classes.

Wrong. Epic Resurgence can trigger from every roll in Demon-soul Bolt's case, as long as you're targetting the same creature with every attack.

Oh, I see. Still I do not really like it. Too bad, Arcane Mastery is for recovering daily attacks instead of encounter attacks like Martial Mastery does.
Any ideas on good utilities of lvl 12 and below?

And again, you are wrong. You can only trade in Utility Powers from other classes. PPs are not classes.



Oh no, buddy! This time I am not! "Choose a class that you don’t already belong to. You can swap one utility power you know for one utility power of the same level or lower from the chosen class."

It does not state "You can swap one utility power from your class...". Same is for example with the Light of Order feat, which also allows you to swap your lvl 12 PP utility for it. Otherwise Secrets of Belial would be redundant thanks to Acolyte Power.
Yes, but it doesn't say you can swap from your Paragon Path and the default power swap rules state:

"Unless instructed otherwise, you cannot replace powers that your character gained from a paragon path or an epic destiny." 
Yes, but it doesn't say you can swap from your Paragon Path and the default power swap rules state:

"Unless instructed otherwise, you cannot replace powers that your character gained from a paragon path or an epic destiny." 



Well, it would be a 4 year old bug of the CB then, since it does not allow you to trade your PP Powers with either Adept, Acolyte or Novice Power. However Light of Order and Secrets of Belial for example do allow it. Why should they be coded differently from the other power swap feats?
A bug in the CB? *gasp*

Wrong. Epic Resurgence can trigger from every roll in Demon-soul Bolt's case, as long as you're targetting the same creature with every attack.

Oh, I see. Still I do not really like it. Too bad, Arcane Mastery is for recovering daily attacks instead of encounter attacks like Martial Mastery does.
Any ideas on good utilities of lvl 12 and below?



And again you got it wrong. Arcane Mastery does only recover Wizard dailies.


And again, you are wrong. You can only trade in Utility Powers from other classes. PPs are not classes.

 

Oh no, buddy! This time I am not! "Choose a class that you don’t already belong to. You can swap one utility power you know for one utility power of the same level or lower from the chosen class."

It does not state "You can swap one utility power from your class...". Same is for example with the Order of Light feat, which also allows you to swap your lvl 12 PP utility for it.



Wrong. Light of Order is completely different from Secrets of Belial. It doesn't specify what Utility power you may swap, so you're allowed to swap any.

And still, Secrets of Belial lets you only swap in a power from a class, which PPs aren't.

Since you have an Insider Account i'm really wondering if you're able to read properly, cause that's what you have to do, if you want to play this game by the rules. 
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