setting the dificulty level dial

nexons,

I was just going over the wight.   What struck me was that its energy drain wasn't as cool as it used to be.   I know its a contentous issue, energry drain.   Some like it to do level drain others don't like it to do anything at all.   What I think the game should do is offer difficulty levels for some of these powers like energry drain.    If your playing Dndnext on Hard, then it drains level.   If its on Easy then it does like 5 hp of damage.

What do you think of this crazy idea?   This way the DM can say to the players that the game is on the Hard setting and they have some idea as to what things will be like.

blanger!
nexons,

I was just going over the wight.   What struck me was that its energy drain wasn't as cool as it used to be.   I know its a contentous issue, energry drain.   Some like it to do level drain others don't like it to do anything at all.   What I think the game should do is offer difficulty levels for some of these powers like energry drain.    If your playing Dndnext on Hard, then it drains level.   If its on Easy then it does like 5 hp of damage.

What do you think of this crazy idea?   This way the DM can say to the players that the game is on the Hard setting and they have some idea as to what things will be like.

blanger!


Who's nexons? What's blanger? I do not entertain slang, mind you, so your lingo is baffling, to say the least.

Level drain's "coolness" for you is a logistics nightmare for me.  For me I'd rather have energy drain at worst grant me disadvantage to all my attacks and saves, as well as grant enemies advantage when attacking me.

Simpler is better in this regard. 
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This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
what the honk is a logistics?!?

I think you answered my question in the positive.
Can you better explain your reasons for wanting a difficulty setting? Do you envision a higher difficulty to involve monsters which have more HP and/or higher attack bonus and/or higher damage? Or do you want the ability to have unbalanced powers on otherwise standard monsters?

I do not like the former idea just because the amount of work to create one monster would increase dramatically (i.e. you need a stat block for each difficulty level). If it's the latter and you want lasting and/or devestating effects, like a wight's level drain or a Medusa with instant petrification I can understand that desire. When a monster has stats, attacks and saving throws like every other monster, it's easy to lose some of the epic nature. But rather than make complex rules to incorporate these concepts into the game, I would want to see guidelines to explain to the DM how he can introduce a unique encounter with unbalanced powers.
I personally liked 3E's negative level mechanic for energy drain. it was something you could apply relatively quick, while still being something people definiteyl didn't like to get hit with.

A don't feel we need difficulty sliders, so much as maybe a "hardcore" designation for certain monsters informing the DM not to use em if they're playing a game with casual PCs.
Under the DDN model, this would take the form of the customizable options sidebar, and would almost certainly raise the level/experience point value of the critter.
what the honk is a logistics?!?

Logistics.

Just to note, I'd rather have something that is challenging (stimulating as a result of difficulty) rather than something that is just difficult.  Amping up difficulty does not necessarily raise the challenge of a scenario or opponent.
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging
I wouldn't do the thing in each power description.   Alot of stuff can be described once in the front of the book, Energry Drain being one of them.
I wouldn't do the thing in each power description.   Alot of stuff can be described once in the front of the book, Energry Drain being one of them.



I think this is a great idea.  Various special abilities could have campaign specific power levels.  I know that some people hate the idea of each group customizing their rules but I find it very stimulating.

THe idea that D&D must be played one way all around the world doesn't make sense since some groups love 2E, some love 3E, and some love 4E.  Better to allow cutomization to fit the wants of each group.

The simplest approach should be the standard in my mind.  All modules should build off a very stripped down model of D&D.

Hard and gritty, FTW.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

its important to convey the idea of flexibility in the game to newbs.   That gets their minds spinning and thinking differently about the game.   I need to game to be tough or its not going to be entertaining to play.   That's just me.   Knowing that Energy Drain can suck levels away is a great way to help people out... what?

Ha Ha Ha!  I'm eating your souls away with every touch!
nexons,

I was just going over the wight.   What struck me was that its energy drain wasn't as cool as it used to be.   I know its a contentous issue, energry drain.   Some like it to do level drain others don't like it to do anything at all.   What I think the game should do is offer difficulty levels for some of these powers like energry drain.    If your playing Dndnext on Hard, then it drains level.   If its on Easy then it does like 5 hp of damage.

What do you think of this crazy idea?   This way the DM can say to the players that the game is on the Hard setting and they have some idea as to what things will be like.

blanger!




Greetings visitor from the Far Realm!

 
Drain as HP can be designed in such a way so it's FAR worse than level drain.

So why would you use insulting terms like "easy mode".

I'd prefer you used "dont' want terrible design mode" but you could just stick with something neutral like "optional drain".   
well, its not designed that way.... its easy.

bring back the lifestealer sword in the magic sectin to.   I can't find it.
My first and only 2e experience was playing with a dm who wanted to "test the difficulty of his module". Our first fight was against wights, which decimated me (the barbarian) and hurt the paladin. After that fight, I had the option of playing as a 1st level barbarian or rerolling. When we talked about it later, he pointed out that he expected successful parties to have the magic users kill the wights, while the melee fighters would stand around not getting into danger.

Now, admittedly, one story doesn't lead to data. But, once bitten twice shy - I'm not interested in playing a game where you can be penalized into uselessness for some bad rolls.

I realize that many Of the people asking for hard mode had potions or rituals that would have healed my character. The fact that I didn't know about them doesn't make me more likely to enjoy level drain.
So, if its popular, I have no problem with putting into the dmg. But for me, any energy drain will be temporary and easy to administer.
you think this is crazy?   The Witcher 2 apparently has a mode where if you die in the game the whole flippin thing is over with!   I've had to save and restart many times with that game.   Apparently there are people who can do it without my feeble playing skills.

The cooler monsters in the Witcher were the ones that made me think about how to fight them.   There's one that explodes in an acid burst apparently.   Sometimes I just avoided them.   Others became more mook like over time and I started to avoid those as well.
Saving and reloading works better in a single player game. A mode where when you die you're out really only works if the game party is supposed to be 10 minutes long.

Still, many people like level drain, so I'm okay with easy mechanics, for those who want them.
A mode where when you die you're out really only works if the game party is supposed to be 10 minutes long.

And even then, developers realized pretty early on that players are more likely to cough up another quarter if a "continue" option exists.

I can't even specifically remember any videogames where "death" means "roll another guy", but I seem recall the handful that did were hilariously exploitable - or largely ignored until savestates became possible.
Having your character get hit with an attack that has complicated rules behind it - re: level drain in 2e/3e - and then having to modify a bunch of different rules, stat blocks, temporary modifications, additional rules for how to get it back, etc etc: Not much fun. As was said before, it's a logistical nightmare. Unpleasant.

Having your character hit with an attack that puts you behind the rest of the party for a significant period of time is basically like getting hit with a "I'll just suck compared to the rest of the party" status effect. Also, not much fun.

For some people, having an attack that puts a grave status effect, something that really scares the player and makes them go "oh no! I should do everything in my power to not get hit by that again" can make for interesting gameplay, and make some very scary monsters, well, scary, and not basically additional sacks of hit points to smash for xp rewards.

Some players don't like that kind of thing, and some players like having it even worse - something that can easily kill your character. This is a taste thing! Do your players want a very real possibility of character depth around every corner, with 3 back-up characters pre-rolled before every gaming session? Or do your characters like the storylines possible when all-or-most of the party is put in grave danger often, mostly gets through it, perhaps losing (in proper dramatic fashion) a few friends along the way?

Both of these are appropriate, but these kinds of difficulty tweaks should be handled at the campaign level. There should be an easy way to modify character creation or overall combat rules so that when a monster hits and does (a certain status effect), then for some campaigns that's bad, and for other campaigns that's really bad. You shouldn't have to change the monster; you should be able to change the players or perhaps even some of the overall combat rules.

A good analogy for 4e is having a campaign where the total number of surges a character can have is halved (or even reduced further). This makes losing a single surge (to an energy drain attack, for example) very terrifying - more scary than the already frightening loss to a player with twice as many total surges.

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

I personally liked 3E's negative level mechanic for energy drain. it was something you could apply relatively quick, while still being something people definiteyl didn't like to get hit with.



I liked 3e's solution as well. I quite like the OP's idea of ramping up abilities on the basis of how gritty you want your campaign.


In the broader philosophical sense, getting hit for damage has the potential to "put your character behind the rest of the party for a significant period of time," depending on what kind of healing rules are in play. All things that happen to characters can and should have the potential to do this, or we don't actually care what happens to us.


Attacks have to be significant and special abilities have to be even more so or it's not worth rolling dice for and I can simply narrate a fight without any player interaction or random elements.


A series of difficulty modules in the monster manual, right after conditions and special monster qualities are explained, would be an excellent way to empower groups to decide what kind of campaign they want to play.

use the options box for hardcore options. Then the dm can pick  and choose on an encounter base.
Also the lifestealer sword is in an options box under the death knight. 
In the broader philosophical sense, getting hit for damage has the potential to "put your character behind the rest of the party for a significant period of time," depending on what kind of healing rules are in play.

You apparently severely mistook what I meant to say. "Putting your character behind the rest of the party" means being significantly worse at all things to the point that your contribution starts to wane in comparison. In other words, playing a level 3 character while everybody else is playing a level 6 character sucks.

All things that happen to characters can and should have the potential to do this, or we don't actually care what happens to us.

The potential to have ill effects for your character? Sure. Your character should be challenged; without risk, there is no challenge. The risk that you face, however, should be something dangerous and worrysome - not something that really just makes the game less fun for you for awhile. In other words, you should be worried about your character being dead, not being weakened to the point of uselessness while everybody else is running around doing awesome things.

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

In the broader philosophical sense, getting hit for damage has the potential to "put your character behind the rest of the party for a significant period of time," depending on what kind of healing rules are in play.

You apparently severely mistook what I meant to say. "Putting your character behind the rest of the party" means being significantly worse at all things to the point that your contribution starts to wane in comparison. In other words, playing a level 3 character while everybody else is playing a level 6 character sucks.

All things that happen to characters can and should have the potential to do this, or we don't actually care what happens to us.

The potential to have ill effects for your character? Sure. Your character should be challenged; without risk, there is no challenge. The risk that you face, however, should be something dangerous and worrysome - not something that really just makes the game less fun for you for awhile. In other words, you should be worried about your character being dead, not being weakened to the point of uselessness while everybody else is running around doing awesome things.

Dude, you should switch to decaf. I think the ultimate point of all of it is there is no absolute answer to this. I want conditions to make a character's contributions wane a lot. I want them to matter, and then I don't want them to crop up much but when they do, it's a big deal. You don't seem to want that. 'Sall good.

Under the DDN model, this would take the form of the customizable options sidebar, and would almost certainly raise the level/experience point value of the critter.


you think this is crazy?   The Witcher 2 apparently has a mode where if you die in the game the whole flippin thing is over with!   I've had to save and restart many times with that game.   Apparently there are people who can do it without my feeble playing skills.

Quite a few rogue style dungeon games have permadeath as an option. When a character dies, the character and all saves are deleted. Some people like the challenge, some hate it. A few set the game to permadeath and then cheat, don't ask me why.

Energy drain is really something that should be optional by campaign. I can see situations where a 2e style drain is nearly impossible to fix, a 3e style deadly but fixable, and a 4e style shug and move on style are all suitable. However, trying to include all 3 in a balanced way would be very hard. Monsters with 4e style energy drain need it to be reliable and hard hitting, but 2e style drain is scary and dangerous even if mild and unlikely to hit. This changes how the rest of the monster needs to be designed to balance it.

It also tweaks some other things. 2e and 3e style energy drain almost require individual XP adjusted individually by difficulty. That way people who do get hit with energy drain will advance faster until they catch up. Still painful but it won't leave you permanently behind the way the flat XP model used in 4e would.

I like this idea.  I felt like there was a serious absense when it comes to interestingly evil and cruel monster powers, even if it's just an optional addition to the monsters i'd like to see a potential for them to come back.

Also, as an inbetween penalty that sucks a lot but isn't exactly as punishing as total level loss, I have liked the idea of loss of less than a full level of XP.  For example if the XP tnl is 2000 for a character, each hit by the wight will drain 1/5 of that, or 400 xp.  Still punishing, but doesn't relagte a character to uselessness after a couple hits.  The usual methods of restoring lost levels could be used to restore the lost XP.
  I felt like there was a serious absense when it comes to interestingly evil and cruel monster powers



Being cruel to players.... yeh, hurray.... good word, felt cruel in 1978, you have lost all the accomplishments you have spent the last year and a half on in this characters advancement... cheers that level 6 mu that seems like they might have got something accomplished once in a while is now level 1 have fun with that.
 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

  I felt like there was a serious absense when it comes to interestingly evil and cruel monster powers



Being cruel to players.... yeh, hurray.... good word, felt cruel in 1978, you have lost all the accomplishments you have spent the last year and a half on in this characters advancement... cheers that level 6 mu that seems like they might have got something accomplished once in a while is now level 1 have fun with that.
 




Without the cruel powers, your only real punishment is killing a player off, which is ever crueler.  Of course if you never let a character die or suffer any cruel consequences, you kinda get that whole saturday morning cartoon adventure feeling, where nobody ever gets permanently hurt.  If that is the game you want to play, that is why there would be an "easy" mode, but some of us like gritty and dangerous campaigns.
  I felt like there was a serious absense when it comes to interestingly evil and cruel monster powers



Being cruel to players.... yeh, hurray.... good word, felt cruel in 1978, you have lost all the accomplishments you have spent the last year and a half on in this characters advancement... cheers that level 6 mu that seems like they might have got something accomplished once in a while is now level 1 have fun with that.
 




Without the cruel powers, your only real punishment is killing a player off



I avoid killing players... having characters loose in various ways is fine... there families dying even there characters dying is one thing... players themselves I would rather not be cruel to or kill.

That said making the punishment for a character being heroic in behavior becoming less "heroic" who now has to be restricted to battling against inferior enemies?  And in 1e it was pretty close to permanent... restorartion was very highlevel and could not be assumed at all available.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 


Without the cruel powers, your only real punishment is killing a player off, which is ever crueler.  Of course if you never let a character die or suffer any cruel consequences, you kinda get that whole saturday morning cartoon adventure feeling, where nobody ever gets permanently hurt.  If that is the game you want to play, that is why there would be an "easy" mode, but some of us like gritty and dangerous campaigns.



Yeah, the one thing I miss from modern D&D is lasting injuries. I hate the whole "one good night's sleep cures all wounds" paradigm.

Now i'm not saying you need wounds that are truly permanent to the character, but having something that lasts for the rest of the adventure or lasts until you perform a specific task ingame would be good.

  I felt like there was a serious absense when it comes to interestingly evil and cruel monster powers



Being cruel to players.... yeh, hurray.... good word, felt cruel in 1978, you have lost all the accomplishments you have spent the last year and a half on in this characters advancement... cheers that level 6 mu that seems like they might have got something accomplished once in a while is now level 1 have fun with that.
 




Without the cruel powers, your only real punishment is killing a player off, which is ever crueler.  Of course if you never let a character die or suffer any cruel consequences, you kinda get that whole saturday morning cartoon adventure feeling, where nobody ever gets permanently hurt.  If that is the game you want to play, that is why there would be an "easy" mode, but some of us like gritty and dangerous campaigns.



It's easy and trivial to make a gritty and dangerous campaign. AD&D had it mastered if you played it by the rules. Of course the players are gonna want to push slaves and livestock down the halls in front of them, poke everything with a 15' pole, and be constantly paranoid.
Yeah, the one thing I miss from modern D&D is lasting injuries. I hate the whole "one good night's sleep cures all wounds" paradigm.

Now i'm not saying you need wounds that are truly permanent to the character, but having something that lasts for the rest of the adventure or lasts until you perform a specific task ingame would be good.

I do both of these in 4e right now, actually. I simply allow each extended rest to only let the players regain a healing surge's worth of hit points and a single healing surge. Makes it so a bad encounter can have lasting effects over several days. I also make liberal use of the "disease track" - modifying it appropriately to fit poisons, diseases, and curses more appropriately here and there.

...the players are gonna want to push slaves and livestock down the halls in front of them, poke everything with a 15' pole...

This is hilarious, because it's so incredibly true.

The trick in making a game actually gritty and dangerous is not an easy one, not without trivializing character interest (why get attached when this character will die to a random die roll for listening at a door in a half session). It can be done, however! I just have yet to see a game support it without a significant level of house rules.

Supporting an edition you like does not make you an edition warrior. Demanding that everybody else support your edition makes you an edition warrior.

Why do I like 13th Age? Because I like D&D: http://magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/10/16/first-impressions-13th-age/

AzoriusGuildmage- "I think that you simply spent so long playing it, especially in your formative years with the hobby, that you've long since rationalized or houseruled away its oddities, and set it in your mind as the standard for what is and isn't reasonable in an rpg."

...the players are gonna want to push slaves and livestock down the halls in front of them, poke everything with a 15' pole...

This is hilarious, because it's so incredibly true.

Which just means the intended "gritty" is actually "procedural" instead.

I'd rather have them stop and think about what their doing then having them walk in and hack everything to bits in 5 minites with every encounter.

Thanxs for the tip about the lifestealer being hidden in the monster book.    Ill take a look later on, wish it was in the treasure book.
I do like the idea the OP put forward about difficulty levels. 

They're definitely an issue that could be addressed further in the monster manuals, and I think a good example of this is the Giant Lizard.  There are options listed for making the lizards a tougher challenge than base, which really helps if you're dealing with a party that either rolled well on their stats, or had a high array or good equipment for their level.

The difficulty dial for a lone specific monster is easily set by just tweaking their damage dice and hit dice in most cases, or by adding/removing a trait.  Perhaps different monster sections, like beasts, demons, devils, aberrations--could all have a small blurb of tweaks and customizations prefacing them

I can understand why energy drain isn't as nasty as it used to be.  Negative levels and level drain are unnecessary game mechanics, especially if you let people bring in new characters at levels other than 1. 

I know they add to the danger of the Wight as a creature, and I like them thematically, but it essentially they say that for the purposes of certain monsters, you have another set of hit-points.  Losing 5 hitpoints from your maximum HP total is a pretty nasty thing and roughly equivalent to level drain in 3.5.  On top of this, Wights are resistant to nonmagical weapons.

ha.. that death knight nine lives stealer is a nasty piece of work!   Don't make your save and your dead.   Though it does have the limit of only eating nine souls a year!   What da?

this is a good sign of things to come, me thinks.
I'd rather have them stop and think about what their doing then having them walk in and hack everything to bits in 5 minites with every encounter.

That does not, in any way, require level drain to happen.

To put it simply, use the carrot-and-stick method:

STICK:
Creatures that vow vengeance, rumors about a band of bloodthirsty cutthroat thieves posing as heroes, and price inflation from the assumption that the PCs have been gathering mountain-sized dragon hoards are examples of in-story implications of their "kill everything to bits" attitude.  Heavily using traps, gas chambers, and having enemies constantly run away when at half HP can also make players think, even if it's in the lines of "how do I keep the buggers from running away?"

Mechanically, do not reward the PCs EXP for killing stuff and tell the players about this.  Seriously, the only reason why players/PCs would kill monsters is because they are rewarded EXP for it.  Combine that with slower HP recovery, and they'll probably not even want to fight at all.

CARROT:
Hidden passageways, shortcuts to objectives, and overall story progression are examples of in-story rewards for not fighting.

Mechanically, reward them EXP for avoiding fights -- perhaps designing fights with a given amount of EXP in mind, then rewarding 0% ~ 25% of the EXP if they pursue the fight, and 100% if they avoid the fight -- and at the same time, giving them other mechanical boosts (like not needing to roll during exploration endeavors, or utilizing GUMSHOE's "Fail Forward" philosophy, allow almost all actions to proceed even on a natural 2, leaving only a natural 1 for actual failure but in a hilarious way [failing to meet the DC should add complications to an action instead]).

- - - - -
EDIT:

I'd rather have "nasty variations" as a means to surprise players even if I throw in the same monster for the 100th time, not as a balancing method. 
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57047238 wrote:
If you're crossing the street and see a city bus barreling straight toward you with 'GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!' painted across its windshield, you probably won't be reaching for your wallet.
I Don't Always Play Strikers...But When I Do, I Prefer Vampire Stay Thirsty, My Friends
This is what I believe is the spirit of D&D 4E, and my deal breaker for D&D Next: equal opportunities, with distinct specializations, in areas where conflict happens the most often, without having to worry about heavy micromanagement or system mastery. What I hope to be my most useful contributions to the D&D Community: DM Idea: Collaborative Mapping, Classless 4E (homebrew system, that hopefully helps in D&D Next development), Gamma World 7E random character generator (by yours truly), and the Concept of Perfect Imbalance (for D&D Next and other TRPGs in development) Pre-3E D&D should be recognized for what they were: simulation wargames where people could tell stories with The Best Answer to "Why 4E?" Fun vs. Engaging

Shouldn't we be able to employ all of the above? Level drain is harsh and to be used sparingly, but that doesn't mean it's always bad in all cases. People love to say how fluff backed by mechanics is such a great thing, but when we want nasty consequences in the narrative to be backed up by equally nasty mechanics people seem to clam up and say mechanics shouldn't do that.


I agree that if the nasty consequences are always nasty mechanical set backs like level drain or death then it's tiresome, procedural and monotonous, but mechanical setbacks never being nasty is equally monotonous.


And anyway, the OP's suggestion is not "change energy drain to 2e's version only", it's "we could do with alternative versions so if we want 2e's version we can have it". It's a good idea, it doesn't force it on anyone and it gives a legitimate playstyle an official nod that people seem to want from the publisher.


What's the big deal, again?