Do you guys actually play with the ridiculous new rules that eliminate mana burn?

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I refuse to play that way, ever. Not for a tournament, not for casual play. Mana burn was part of the game for nearly 20 years for a reason. It forces players to actually make calculated decisions with their resources. Without mana burn, players can just haphazardly tap their lands for mana in a sloppy manner. Mana burn also makes cards like Black Lotus, Sol Ring, and Mana Drain slightly balanced. Seriously, these cards would actually be considerably more powerful - if you can imagine that - without the threat of mana burn. Is this what we want? 

Then we have cards like Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Mishra's Workshop, and the Urza lands. You have to actually think before tapping this cards - if mana burn exists, as it should. 

And finally, there's cards like Power Surge, which were obviously designed with the reality of mana burn in mind. Of course, so was Mana Drain - the threat of mana burn was the only thing keeping it even slightly sane!! 

Why the hell did WotC throw mana burn on the scrapheap? My guess is it was to simplify the game yet further, for the Pokemon kids. Just like eliminating interrupts was. They have changed Magic: the Gathering far too many times in its short lifespan. Imagine if chess went through zillions of changes every decade? It wouldn't have lasted several centuries, that's for sure.
Aside from a few anecdotal examples, mana burn doesn't come up nearly as often as anyone would think. At best, you might have had to take a hit from a dual land if you didn't have a firebreather out yet.

I remember when modern started and everything was thrown out the window. You want to talk about angry players over rules changes, maybe you should start there.

Mana Burn. Pfft. Laughing

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Catotheyounger wrote:
Back when I was in high school, I used to write little quotes on the whiteboard of my chemistry class, little, funny things that I'd made up and attributed to an anonymous author. Just tiny things I found amusing. Some time near the end of the year, a substitute teacher came in, read it, and told us a quote she had heard from a 13 year old girl. I don't remember what it was, but the quote sounded deep and philosophical. Then I actually thought about it. I realized that the quote was actually meaningless, but simply couched in the language of philosophy and depth. And that's what your post is. It is meaningless bull**** that you said in such a way as to make it seem sophisticated. But just as a lab coat doesn't make you a scientist, language won't make you a philosopher. Only love of wisdom will. And until then, you will always remind me of a nameless 13 year old girl.
Would someone seriously not run a Black Lotus for fear of mana burn? A Dark Ritual for the same reason? A Sol Ring along the same train of thought? I don't buy that. People will still use those cards if we revert back to mana burn, for the same reason that people still use City of Brass and Verdant Catacombs - the upside is definitely worth it.

The only cards it would significantly effect are cards which might forcefully dump a bucketload of mana on you at an inopportune time - like Omnath, Locus of Mana, Braid of Fire and Blinkmoth Urn.

Mana burn was fine when it was around, but the environment is more enjoyable and user friendly without it around. In any case, I feel like I was just trolled, but w/e. 
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...OK then.  Obvious joke thread is obvious.
Damage on the stack, please. :/
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The number of games where mana burn actually came up were few and the number of games where mana burn actually made an effect on the outcome of the game were so few that I can honestly say I haven't noticed a difference in general gameplay.
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139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
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I do remember a game where my opponent accidentally killed himself through mana burn. I think he was the guy who put the mana flares out, too. Then again, one of the spells in his combo was countered, so he couldn't sink all the mana into an X casting cost.

Oh well, I don't miss it too much. Lack of mana burn helps me in MtGO When I accidentally tap a land (hate that.) 
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Why wouldn't anyone follow the rules of the game? If you're not playing by the rules, then you're not playing Magic.
>Black Lotus
>Balanced
Pick one. 
Why wouldn't anyone follow the rules of the game? If you're not playing by the rules, then you're not playing Magic.


It's not like one of the reasons board games are great is because of the possibility of house rules.
EDH wasn't a format before wotc made it one. They were still playing the game.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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I refuse to play that way, ever. Not for a tournament, not for casual play. Mana burn was part of the game for nearly 20 years for a reason. It forces players to actually make calculated decisions with their resources. Without mana burn, players can just haphazardly tap their lands for mana in a sloppy manner. Mana burn also makes cards like Black Lotus, Sol Ring, and Mana Drain slightly balanced. Seriously, these cards would actually be considerably more powerful - if you can imagine that - without the threat of mana burn. Is this what we want? 

Then we have cards like Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Mishra's Workshop, and the Urza lands. You have to actually think before tapping this cards - if mana burn exists, as it should. 

And finally, there's cards like Power Surge, which were obviously designed with the reality of mana burn in mind. Of course, so was Mana Drain - the threat of mana burn was the only thing keeping it even slightly sane!! 

Why the hell did WotC throw mana burn on the scrapheap? My guess is it was to simplify the game yet further, for the Pokemon kids. Just like eliminating interrupts was. They have changed Magic: the Gathering far too many times in its short lifespan. Imagine if chess went through zillions of changes every decade? It wouldn't have lasted several centuries, that's for sure.



Still up to your usual shenanigans, I see.
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Bahaha another troll that wants mana burn back
I love trolls Dont hate me because I'm blunt and you cannot handle it
I refuse to play that way, ever. Not for a tournament, not for casual play.



If I played against you, I would totally cheat by playing without mana burn.  Bwahahaa, and you'd never even notice I was doing it!  Brilliant!
The World of Eldangard - a three act M:tG block by Fallingman Eldangard Stormfront Ragnarok
Uh, yeah, because if I don't I'll be disqualified.
Uh, yeah, because if I don't I'll be disqualified.



On the other hand, I would be hard pressed to call a judge if my opponent was lowering his own life total ... a win's a win.
Uh, yeah, because if I don't I'll be disqualified.



On the other hand, I would be hard pressed to call a judge if my opponent was lowering his own life total ... a win's a win.


Then he casts Near-Death Experience.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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You're forgiven for every stupid thing you've said up until this moment. That's brilliant xD

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My self and my friends have been both damaged by mana burn and had to not cast a spell in fear of mana burn. We did play a lot of 3 color
decks with lots of the Ravnica bounce lands and things that give extra mana like fertile ground That being said I dont remember any
game that was decided by mana burn*, so its nonexistence is not a big deal in any way. 

When I get my play group up and running. I will probably suggest we house rule certain cards such as braids of fire and mana drain
to cause mana burn.   That is the great thing of insualr group casual.


* Of course in 3 - 5 player free for all its oftne hard to say what effect an turn 4 play had on the outcome of  hours long game.
Once again: Aside from that one deck that gets brought up occasionally, mana burn matters approximately never. There are occasional very rare situations where it might account for one life once in every twenty games or so.

Is that really that big of a deal to bother with?

I mean, if you're going to take up arms about one of the M10 rules changes, get mad about Damage Off The Stack. At least that mattered on a regular basis.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
Most people do play by the current official rules, even if they might grumble about them.

At sanctioned events, including FNM, obviously they have no choice.

I don't think one can claim that mana burn affected Black Lotus in a significant manner, which leads me to wonder if that statement is present to indicate tongue-in-cheekness.

My alternative to the Magic: 2012 rules changes was roundly condemned as going back to the chaos of the Fifth Edition, and so I will not repeat it now.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

The effect of mana burn is often understated.  Sure, depending on the deck you were playing it may not have come up very much, but it certainly had a large effect on the game.

Personally I liked having it around, but I understand the design team wanted to free up design space by limiting players' ability to control their exact life total.

Though they havent seemed to do much of anything impressive with that design space so far.  If the choice is between having mana burn vs having Near-Death Experience and Fateful Hour, I'd prefer mana burn.

Current decks
Comments or suggestions are always welcome

Modern
nothing at the moment

I've been playing for about a year and have never had a problem with excess mana at the end of my turn. 
I agree whole heartily with Mata_Hari. As a quick furthermore, I would like to point out the tactical complexity that mana burn adds to the game, c.f. Braid of Fire, et.c, et.c. Originally released in Ice Age block, when mana burn was still a thriving part of Magic: the Gathering, the aforementioned Braid loses much of its visceral impact with the removal of mana burn. It was once a card that had to be built around, but now it can just be tossed in any red deck to instantly improve it. The examples are literally endless, but I think I will leave it there. Thanks!
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
The worst thing about the elimination of mana burn is that my hopes for a spell that killed the opponent by giving him or her a massive amount of mana were in vain.

Imagine how cool it would be to kill an opponent by making them chocke on mana!

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?



You're forgiven for every stupid thing you've said up until this moment. That's brilliant xD



But it's not even used properly.

Also, can we stop taking this thread seriously. If you wanted to discuss the impact of mana burn, then there's probably a new thread coming in a week or so where you can throw words at the new guy.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

Bahahahaha further trolls have joined the fun and lured in unsuspecting forum people!
I love trolls Dont hate me because I'm blunt and you cannot handle it
Bahahahaha further trolls have joined the fun and lured in unsuspecting forum people!


Good thing you're such an expert in dealing with them then.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

Why wouldn't anyone follow the rules of the game? If you're not playing by the rules, then you're not playing Magic.


It's not like one of the reasons board games are great is because of the possibility of house rules.
EDH wasn't a format before wotc made it one. They were still playing the game.



Five-card draw, Texas hold 'em, lowball, seven-card stud...I'm still playing poker.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Bahahahaha further trolls have joined the fun and lured in unsuspecting forum people!


oh is Mata trolling? I never would've figured that out without your help. thank god you were here to set us straight.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

I mean, if you're going to take up arms about one of the M10 rules changes, get mad about Damage Off The Stack. At least that mattered on a regular basis.

Absolutely. In fact, it didn't just matter, it actually negatively impacted a lot of cards. Mogg Fanatic used to be able to hit for two damage, Yavimaya Elder could hit for two damage AND net you multiple cards and there are maybe thousands of other cards that took advantage of basically the same trick.

And now, for my grand reveal, the OP was entirely copy-and-pasted from an entirely unironic comment on Power Surge. DrJack, ladies and gentlemen!
You will never get away with this!

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I think I'm gonna start playing with mana burn... secretly tapping my lands wisely to conserve both my life total and my magical powers.

Don't tell ANYONE!

3DH4LIF3

entirely copy-and-pasted from an entirely unironic comment on Power Surge.

And that post makes sense in that context.

While in general, it seems silly to get upset over mana burn going away, it does mean that players can just tap all their lands every turn to cheat their way around this card. So it is frustrating that a good card was lost due to a totally unnecessary rules change.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

entirely copy-and-pasted from an entirely unironic comment on Power Surge.

And that post makes sense in that context.

While in general, it seems silly to get upset over mana burn going away, it does mean that players can just tap all their lands every turn to cheat their way around this card. So it is frustrating that a good card was lost due to a totally unnecessary rules change.



yeah man, power surge decks were dominating before the rules change.

 

120.6. Some effects replace card draws.

 

why are you here when NGA exists and is just better

Also the fact that he negatively referenced the removal of interrupts, something that happened 14 years ago.
They have changed Magic: the Gathering far too many times in its short lifespan. Imagine if chess went through zillions of changes every decade? It wouldn't have lasted several centuries, that's for sure.



LOL.
Chess has changed rules constantly since the 13th century.  Whilst the game is older than that, that was the start of the game being modernised. 
Many of the old rules were extremely teadious without (relatively) modern changes like stalemate, checkmate, time limits, castling, pawn promotion etc.
Many of the pieces had much more restricted movement (the queen was historically the worst piece), and of all the current pieces, only three of them still move the same way they did back originally way back then in the 13th.
Some changes to the game happened less than 100 years ago, for a game likely to be ~1000 years old. 
It was only in the 1900's that rules were standardised the world over..... 
The modern changes sped the game up amongst other things, and cleared up ambiguous rulings.

It's survived just fine.
They have changed Magic: the Gathering far too many times in its short lifespan. Imagine if chess went through zillions of changes every decade? It wouldn't have lasted several centuries, that's for sure.



LOL.
Chess has changed rules constantly since the 13th century.  Whilst the game is older than that, that was the start of the game being modernised. 
Many of the old rules were extremely teadious without (relatively) modern changes like stalemate, checkmate, time limits, castling, pawn promotion etc.
Many of the pieces had much more restricted movement (the queen was historically the worst piece), and of all the current pieces, only three of them still move the same way they did back originally way back then in the 13th.
Some changes to the game happened less than 100 years ago, for a game likely to be ~1000 years old. 
It was only in the 1900's that rules were standardised the world over..... 
The modern changes sped the game up amongst other things, and cleared up ambiguous rulings.

It's survived just fine.

Damn, somebody beat me to it!

STEP 1: Find your cousin STEP 2: Get your cousin in the cannon STEP: 3 Find another cousin
yeah man, power surge decks were dominating before the rules change.


Well, that was actually my point. Complaining about mana burn going away doesn't make much sense in relation to Magic in general, but if you're talking about just that one card (without regard to how important it ever was) then it makes sense - mana burn did affect that one card, at least.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

And now, for my grand reveal, the OP was entirely copy-and-pasted from an entirely unironic comment on Power Surge. DrJack, ladies and gentlemen!


that's a little optimistic
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.