Help me optimize this cleric please

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So folks, my current campaign came to a point where I have a chance to redo my character sheet. He's currently a swift hunter, but reading some threads I thought that it would fit him better to go Archer Cleric. But while building this baby I've hit some problems.

He has some restrictions though.
Must remain an Elf. Must keep the original ability scores (not that bad):
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Current Level: 13
Str 10
Dex 23
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 18
Cha 8


What I thought of his new build (up to 20)

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Deity: Solonor Thelandira
Cleric 5/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 10/Incantatrix 3/??? 2
Domains: War,Travel,Magic.
Divine Magician Variant

Feats:
1- Point Blank Shot
1- Weapon Focus (Longbow)
1- Extend Spell
3- Persistent Spell
6- Holy Warrior
9- Precise Shot
12- Knowledge Devotion
15- Rapid Shot
18- Improved Precise Shot
18 (incantatrix)- ?


I believe it could get better, way better. Should I go dweomerkeeper instead? What prc do you suggest to fill those 2 remaining levels? Just plain c. cleric?

as always, thanks in advance =D
Why is there no Divine Metamagic (Perstistent Spell)?! For the last PrC, you can't go wrong with Contemplative; it gives you yet another domain. Crag top Archer is phenomenal for archers, but poo for clerics. As always, use Divine Power and Righteous Might. Righteous Wrath of the faithful won't do much for you (I think it only applies to melee), but it's still a handy buff for your allies.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls

I don't think anything in seeker of the misty isle is worth giving up caster levels. Also, in order to qualify before level 13, you need survival as a class skill, and none of the domains that give that are available to clerics of Solonor Thelandira.


Incantatrix requires iron will, which I don't see listed. Are you planning to spend a week in an otyugh hole?


You've got three feats listed at 1st level. You've got the standard feat and the bonus feat from the war domain, but where's the other coming from? Did you drop the elf domain for divine magician and forget to update your feats?

From a little experience, I'd suggest Cloistered Cleric if you can afford to keep a persisted Divine Power on yourself.

Going with that nets you Lore, a few more spells on your list, the Knowledge Domain, and a few more skill points for the loss of armor proficiencies you weren't using (Because you're wearing a monk's belt, right?), martial weapon proficients you weren't using (because you're using a longbow and other automatic elf proficiencies), and a d6 HD rather than a d8.
In my experience, you're only ever in Seeker for the free domain. I suggest you drop most of the levels.

Heroism Domain is pro, as is Animal. Get them.

How are you qualifying for Incantatrix? And, that aside, DMM is generally more efficient, as is the bustedness of Dweomerkeeper, if you somehow qualify anways.

Needs moar Cloistered Cleric. Contemplative is always good. Cleric is a three-level class, by the way, as there is no reason not to take Church Inquisitor at level 4.And that's all I've got right now, as I am AFB and tired.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
Should invest in zen archery aswell if possible (although less optimized since you're at level 13) also DMM is going to be the best way to go if not for the spell which improves your bab. Also erudite ape is correct cleric needs 3 levels tops before going out of it
@frost.fire No he doesn't need Zen Archery. He's got a Dex that's 5 higher than his Wis already and can't change his ability scores. That would be a waste of a feat for no direct, and very little potential, benafit.

I don't think anything in seeker of the misty isle is worth giving up caster levels. Also, in order to qualify before level 13, you need survival as a class skill, and none of the domains that give that are available to clerics of Solonor Thelandira.


Incantatrix requires iron will, which I don't see listed. Are you planning to spend a week in an otyugh hole?


You've got three feats listed at 1st level. You've got the standard feat and the bonus feat from the war domain, but where's the other coming from? Did you drop the elf domain for divine magician and forget to update your feats?




Yeah, I will use otyugh's hole. Sorry, indeed I forgot to update the list.
Damn, never paid attention to the Survival thing. What should I do?


From a little experience, I'd suggest Cloistered Cleric if you can afford to keep a persisted Divine Power on yourself.

Going with that nets you Lore, a few more spells on your list, the Knowledge Domain, and a few more skill points for the loss of armor proficiencies you weren't using (Because you're wearing a monk's belt, right?), martial weapon proficients you weren't using (because you're using a longbow and other automatic elf proficiencies), and a d6 HD rather than a d8.



Will change it.

In my experience, you're only ever in Seeker for the free domain. I suggest you drop most of the levels.

Heroism Domain is pro, as is Animal. Get them.

How are you qualifying for Incantatrix? And, that aside, DMM is generally more efficient, as is the bustedness of Dweomerkeeper, if you somehow qualify anways.

Needs moar Cloistered Cleric. Contemplative is always good. Cleric is a three-level class, by the way, as there is no reason not to take Church Inquisitor at level 4.And that's all I've got right now, as I am AFB and tired.



Divine Magician qualifies me for Incantatrix plus otyugh's hol (forgot to add iron will to the list)

Church inquisitor will be hard to qualify for because of the lawful requirements, since I'm an elf and servant to the elven gods (chaotic everywhere).
Contemplative is only available at level 10. Perhaps go Cloistered Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 8/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 7

Divine Magician doesn't make your (divine) cleric spellcasting into arcane, it just adds wizard spells to your spell list (which would be divine spells when you cast them).  Even if you were to get around that restriction, Incantatrix only advances arcane spellcasting, so you'd still be hosed.  Thus, for your cleric build, Dweomerkeeper would most definitely be the superior of the two.
Indeed. So, Cloistered Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 8/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 7 or Cloistered Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 10/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 5 ?
Moar caster levels is always betterer than less.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Divine Magician qualifies me for Incantatrix plus otyugh's hol (forgot to add iron will to the list)

...No it doesn't.
Church inquisitor will be hard to qualify for because of the lawful requirements, since I'm an elf and servant to the elven gods (chaotic everywhere).

Dang. I forgot how fruity the Elf gods are. I'd seriously drop them, though. So many better options. Or, really, you don't even need to worship the pansy elf gods to be a Seeker.

Or, alternatively, the pantheon rules are awesome. 
Contemplative is only available at level 10. Perhaps go Cloistered Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 8/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 7

Even ignoring the lameness of Seeker(Which is only 1. Or 4 if you need BAB for prereqs.), which is really, really bad, and ignoring the fact that you still can't qualify for DK, the build is mediocre.

To do what you want, but to be good(Well, excluding the fact that Clerics are busted to begin with), I'd say you want Cleric 3/Inquisitor 2/Divine Oracle 4/Seeker 1/Contemplative 1/X9(Or Contemplative 6/X3, or Cleric 3/Wizard 1/Inquisitor 1/Dweomerkeeper 10/Contemplative 1/Seeker 1/Divine Oracle 1/X2.

Or, of course, Stormlord is awesome, if you want to go down that path.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth
Ah, good point; I forgot that Dweomerkeeper requires the ability to cast both arcane and divine, meaning the build will require at least one level of an arcane class.  I'd agree wizard is the better option, mostly for the bonus feat (scribe scroll, or trade out for a fighter feat if you're using Unearthed Arcana).  (Even better if you decide to delve into PHB2's immediate magic abilities!)

I'm a big fan of metamagic, so I'd be keen on having more levels of Dweomerkeeper.  (That capstone ability is a nice one - if you intend to do a lot of metamagicking, that is.)  The base class itself (Cleric) is fairly sturdy though, so you should have a playable character even if you decide to put more levels into Seeker.
Yeah, changed my mind to something along the lines of:

C.Cleric 4/Conjurer 1 (abrupt jaunt ftw)/Dweomerkeeper 8/ Seeker 7

1- Point Blank Shot (elf domain); Longbow Focus (war domain); Knowledge Devotion (knowledge domain); Extend Spell
3- Extra Turning
6- Precise Shot
9- Persistent Spell
12-  Divine Metamagic Persistent
15- Rapid Shot
18-  Holy Warrior

My abilities though, will screw me. Charisma taking a severe hit, I'd be able to persist only one spell.
I was thinking, would an incantatrix be a better archer just UMD-ing wands of cleric stuff and persisting them?

It strikes me that this cleric is a bit too much trouble to go through instead of sticking to a Swift Hunter. 
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