Gestalt Efreeti/Fighter

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The DM for an upcoming campaign said that he might allow Class/Racial Class gestalts, so I decided to work on one for Efreeti (SS) and Fighter (PHB).
I'm just curious, did I do it right?
pastebin.com/0MZZbr2J
I added in the Ability Score and normal Feat increases for reference, if you were to exclusively take this class.
The DM for an upcoming campaign said that he might allow Class/Racial Class gestalts, so I decided to work on one for Efreeti (SS) and Fighter (PHB).
I'm just curious, did I do it right?
pastebin.com/0MZZbr2J
I added in the Ability Score and normal Feat increases for reference, if you were to exclusively take this class.


There isn't a completely "correct" way of gestalting LA with another class because gestalt is kind of underdefined (naturally, as a variant). I'm also away from Savage Species.

Still, assuming your DM OKs a 1-to-1 gestalting (that is, where one "level" can include a class level and a level adjustment), and what you represented at each level accurately reflects what happens on the Efreeti SS table, it looks like you did it right - all the transitions look correct (i.e. you get +1d10 HD at every level, but only 2 SP unless the level also has a racial HD in it). You're entirely correct on when the normal feats come online (it's total HD that matters; the SS tables repositioned their "feat" listings to account for this, but in your gestalt the timing is different).

The only bug I see is that Outsider is a type, not a subtype. (You probably meant "extraplanar"; technically everything has either Native or Extraplanar as a subtype depending on where it is.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Okay, I'll be sure to fix that soon. And I started work on stats for such a character. I think the DM will allow this kind of character if I explain to him that Wish isn't my main goal, but having a Fighter with a few casting-like perks would be useful.

On another subject, is there any way to increase the size of armor? Because the Level 10 jump in size will definitely be a bit of a setback as soon as I level. No armor, no clothes, small weapons...

The 3.5 Monster Manual list efreeti as having the extraplanar and fire subtypes instead of the evil, fire, and lawful subtypes listed in the 3.0 Monster Manual. The 3.5 Monster Manual is more recent than Savage Species, so I'd consider that to take precedence


Another change with the 3.5 Monster Manual is that efreeti now have two slams that add their strength bonus to damage instead of one slam that add one-and-a-half times their strength bonus to damage.


Also, you should gain the change shape special ability (usable at will) instead of polymorph self as a spell-like ability 1/day.



You probably meant "extraplanar"; technically everything has either Native or Extraplanar as a subtype depending on where it is.

A creature has the extraplanar subtype when it's not on its home plane, and a creature doesn't have the extraplanar subtype when it is on its home plane, that you have right. However, the native subtype isn't the opposite of the extraplanar subtype. It's actually entirely unrelated. The native subtype is only possessed by outsiders whose home plane is the material plane, and they have the subtype regardless of which plane they're actually on. I spent quite awhile thinking neraphim needed to eat and sleep when on the plane of limbo before I realized this.

Okay, I'll be sure to fix that soon. And I started work on stats for such a character. I think the DM will allow this kind of character if I explain to him that Wish isn't my main goal, but having a Fighter with a few casting-like perks would be useful.


There are undoubtedly better ways of doing this than Fighter//Efreeti, though. The simplest possible substitution (that doesn't involve changing your race) involves using Warblade (Tome of Battle, previewed here) in place of Fighter, as Fighter has a number of serious design flaws while Warblade is arguably one of the best-built classes in 3.5 (it works great both single-classed and multiclassed (and, if multiclassed, both as a primary class or as a dip), is easy to build, hard to screw up, tolerant of mistakes and changing tastes, and fun to play in combat; except for the "dip" part, Fighter is largely the opposite of this.)

More involved swaps include using Duskblade as your main chassis (PHB2, it's a single-classed fighter/mage; it's very well-designed, with its key weakness being its emphasis on damage spells instead of useful spells), growing to understand the Psychic Warrior (XPH, also in the SRD; these are single-classed caster/fighters of the best sort. They get some of the best buffs in the game, with drawbacks including a slightly weaker base chassis (d8/medium base attack, etc) and low magical stamina (easily fixed in gestalt due to the way that psionics work) or the Ardent (CPsi, basically a psionic cleric but without the insane power of divine magic; they take a bit more skill to build than a psywar though). These are all more magical than the above suggestion (the psywar is the least magical of these), but they can all be played like primary warriors.

(I'm recommending these approaches, instead of the more typical method of using a full-power spellcasting source (wizard, cleric, etc), because you mentioned you were emphasizing the warrior side; any character with decent levels of full-power spellcasting won't play like a warrior. Likewise, all of this assumes single-classing (well, apart from the gestalt).)

On another subject, is there any way to increase the size of armor? Because the Level 10 jump in size will definitely be a bit of a setback as soon as I level. No armor, no clothes, small weapons...


Yes. That refers to the base armor cost (presumably also including the price for masterworking/special materials), but does not inclue the magic costs.

For an example of resizing extant armor (whatever you've been using, for instance), consider full plate as a guide (although that's probably intended to be within the same size category).

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I did what I could to make an Efreeti Warblade build, but I'm still not sure when some of the abilities are upgraded, like Detect Magic (at will). I put them at the very bottom, since I have no idea where they go or if they belong anywhere.

@Maat_Mons: Why is Polymorph self (1/day) replaced with Change Shape? All I see is Change Size and Polymorph Self in the Monster Manual 3.5

That one's from errata. Sorry, I should have mentioned.

Magic Clothing will resize ... but I don't know what the problem
would be with roleplaying dropped trousers on an Efreeti.
I mean, it would probably involve a South Park episode (or two).

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

 

If what you're your trying to attempt is in fact a fighter-type who also casts spells then I can't in good faith say that Efreeti/Warblade is the way to go. I mean it's gestalts! The sky is the limit my friend and a whole side of your build contributing a few bad SLA's with DC's based off a dump stat and the one useful SLA of wish which'll most likely end up just being a huge headache for you and your DM isn't the way to go. PLEASE consider just mixing a melee class with a primary spellcaster! If you're already thinking warblade --a far better option than fighter, but one I'm not a personal fan of due to an overall distain of ToB combined with an active desire to full attack+PA+Wraithstrike as opposed to using silly maneuvers-- then also take a look at just combining it with wizard for some int synergy. If you really must hang around Efreets then just planar bind them, but for the love of optimization and the spirit of gestalt think about stacking two actually different classes together instead of stacking like with like and ending up behind the curve. 
belated 2nd-ing Tempest's PsyWar suggestion.

The Efreet part easily covers some of the usual
PsyWar picks.  Magic Mantle + the good 4s +
basic Metamophic Transfer goodies, can provide
decent undersupport for late game Wish fun.

Here comes your 19th forums breakdown ... ohh who's to blame, it ain't 5E driving you insane.

 

Yeah, DM decided he was only going to allow five Gestalt levels and Faerûn races only, and I don't think that having five levels of Warblade for 19 levels of Efreet would be very wise. So I'm working on a new Warblade concept in my other topic.