A question to DDI subscribers

The last D&D Q&A made me want to know, how many members are there? If someone could be nice enough to check the number of pages there are in the group member section (10 members per page multiplied by the number of pages), it would be welcomed.

I know this only counts the number of DDI members who have a forum account, but I am curious. After all, Mike Mearls did say that 75,000 people answered the polls about the 5e playtest.
The last D&D Q&A made me want to know, how many members are there? If someone could be nice enough to check the number of pages there are in the group member section (10 members per page multiplied by the number of pages), it would be welcomed.

I know this only counts the number of DDI members who have a forum account, but I am curious. After all, Mike Mearls did say that 75,000 people answered the polls about the 5e playtest.



78696
The issue is not how many subscribers there are now but how many there have been. I believe it peaked at around 75000 but have no cite for that
I must not understand the objective.  I am not a DDI subscriber any more, but I answered the poll. 

Also, signing up for the playtest does not require a DDI account or a forum account as best I can tell, so their could potentially be hundreds of thousands of playtesters and poll takers you cannot account for... or am I wrong in what I believe to be true?

∴ "Virtus junxit, mors non separabit." 

I must not understand the objective.  I am not a DDI subscriber any more, but I answered the poll. 

Also, signing up for the playtest does not require a DDI account or a forum account as best I can tell, so their could potentially be hundreds of thousands of playtesters and poll takers you cannot account for... or am I wrong in what I believe to be true?


You're confusing two things.

In the Q&A, someone asked why there has been no poll about 4e Paragon Paths like the poll they sent out about 3e Prestige Classes.  The answer was that they don't need to send out a poll about 4e Paragon Paths because they have the data they need from looking at the usage of the online tools, including the Characetr Builder.

Recently, Mearls said that they have about 75,000 or so playtesters responding to the polls that are sent out.  That is also about the number of D&D Insider subscribers at its peak (as best as we peons can surmise).  
OK, ok, this makes it make more sense.

∴ "Virtus junxit, mors non separabit." 

There are enough DDI subscribers to draw information from. You can easily gauge which classes and races are popular with the tens of thousands of subscribers.

What shock me is that there are enough played and updated paragon characters created late in 4e's lifetime in the CB to make a good estimation. I expected that particular sample size to be smaller.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

The issue is not how many subscribers there are now but how many there have been. I believe it peaked at around 75000 but have no cite for that


How many pages of members are there in the group? It's just a little clic. Please, mr. Wrecan sir. 
There are enough DDI subscribers to draw information from. You can easily gauge which classes and races are popular with the tens of thousands of subscribers. What shock me is that there are enough played and updated paragon characters created late in 4e's lifetime in the CB to make a good estimation. I expected that particular sample size to be smaller.


I just want to know the number. I'm sure the data reflects what people who are willing to pay for DDI want.
There are enough DDI subscribers to draw information from. You can easily gauge which classes and races are popular with the tens of thousands of subscribers. What shock me is that there are enough played and updated paragon characters created late in 4e's lifetime in the CB to make a good estimation. I expected that particular sample size to be smaller.


I just want to know the number. I'm sure the data reflects what people who are willing to pay for DDI want.


Yes, but the wants of people who are willing to pay for DDI and not pay for DDI are not different in the end. Sure person A might prefer books, but does that mean he hates X paragon path because he uses only books? Or person B likes said paragon path only because he uses the CB? No, that doesn't make much sense :P

As for the number, I think a ballpark number was released once, but Wizards does a good job never really releasing solid figures to the public :P I know, I've tried to get them more than once  
My two copper.
I'm currently on my phone, but I believe the number I posted above is the one you are looking for-- group members, which are subscribers who are forum members, yes?

Yes, but the wants of people who are willing to pay for DDI and not pay for DDI are not different in the end. Sure person A might prefer books, but does that mean he hates X paragon path because he uses only books? Or person B likes said paragon path only because he uses the CB? No, that doesn't make much sense :P


Maybe, maybe not. The honest answer is I do not know and I'll never know. So I prefere to be accurate and say it's what the people who are willing to pay for DDI want. 
I'm currently on my phone, but I believe the number I posted above is the one you are looking for-- group members, which are subscribers who are forum members, yes?


No.  

I remember DMapple (I think it was him) checking the number of pages with members and it didn't match the group members. That is what I remember from a long time ago. I could be wrong, but I'd like to know.

It was speculated that group members might actually be the total number of people who ever subscribed.  
The issue is not how many subscribers there are now but how many there have been. I believe it peaked at around 75000 but have no cite for that


How many pages of members are there in the group? It's just a little clic. Please, mr. Wrecan sir. 


Currently, the D&D Insider group has 78,706 members.  No idea if that's a current tally or an historical one.
Thank you, but that is not what I am asking for. A group as a section where it shows all the avvies of it's members. There are 10 avvies per page. I just want to know the number of pages. I'll multiply that by 10 myself. 
Sorry.  Based on that count, there are 78,691 members. (7,869 pages and one member on page 7,870)
Not to mention that half of those members are actually tight playing groups that all make characters and encounters on the same account.

Also. The number of DDI subscribers is irrelevant.

The number of long played paragon PCs created is what matters and that is only info they know.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Also. The number of DDI subscribers is irrelevant. The number of long played paragon PCs created is what matters and that is only info they know.


True, though though they's only need a small fraction of the 78,000 users to have them to have a good enough cross-section to be able to rely on it.  For statistical polling puposes, a few thousand is all you'd need.  I'm pretty sure they'd cross that threshold.
I think it would be interesting to see what the numbers shows. The top and bottom in popularity would be cool to know. Really what is the worst that could happen, a lack of interest in Purple Dragon Knight kicking off another edition war thread?

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I think it would be interesting to see what the numbers shows. The top and bottom in popularity would be cool to know. Really what is the worst that could happen, a lack of interest in Purple Dragon Knight kicking off another edition war thread?



NO ONE LIKES PURPLE DRAGON KNIGHT?! RAAAAAAAGE!
My two copper.
Id say the inherit problem is that if you are looking at the data from ddi you 1) are not looking at random data (same problem that you have with the feedback) 2) you have the potential issue that obviously if you are using a computer program to make your characters you prefer the easier cleaner characters over the more complex one. 3) You must assume that the data from ddi is truly representative of the population. I would argue that this is a horrible assumption to make in part because of number 2. 4) This assumes that everyone who uses ddi actually used ddi to make their paragon choices as well. (A likely case). but the total ddi subscribers includes encounters players. These players should be ignored unless they actually made a paragon choice.

In other words Id caution against using ddi info to make an inference about the population of d&d players. While Id assume ddi is representative of the population I would want to make certain first.
The biggest problem here is that ddi only shows what people played. NOT what people like. This is an important consideration. A person may not have chosen a paragon path he loved because 1) Dm didn't allow it 2) it didn't fit his character concept 3) The book came out too late after his character was already made and or selected a paragon path.

In other words ddi does not show what paragon paths people most want/enjoyed. It only shows the ones that actually got chosen. This could be bad as it will show the majorities second choice as potentially never being chosen even though they would love that to be an option
There are 10 avvies per page. I just want to know the number of pages. I'll multiply that by 10 myself. 



There's currently 7872 pages. (with last page having 9 members)



Id say the inherit problem is that if you are looking at the data from ddi you 1) are not looking at random data (same problem that you have with the feedback)


Selection bias happens in any form of data gathering, even if it's only in the form of "we only surveyed people who like responding to surveys". At least in this case the bias should have little to do with peoples' preference in paragon paths.

2) you have the potential issue that obviously if you are using a computer program to make your characters you prefer the easier cleaner characters over the more complex one.



Really? My own assumption would have been that, if anything, having the CB "do the math" for you would make it easier to build more complex characters that way than manually.

3) You must assume that the data from ddi is truly representative of the population. I would argue that this is a horrible assumption to make in part because of number 2. 4) This assumes that everyone who uses ddi actually used ddi to make their paragon choices as well. (A likely case). but the total ddi subscribers includes encounters players. These players should be ignored unless they actually made a paragon choice. In other words Id caution against using ddi info to make an inference about the population of d&d players. While Id assume ddi is representative of the population I would want to make certain first.



WotC presumably have a good idea that a certain percentage of characters may be using predetermined paths, and can take that into account when weighing the data.

If anything, I'd say the likely selection bias from using DDI is that it doesn't reflect the overall popularity of certain sourcebooks. In the general 4e-playing population, if a book sold particularly poorly, any paragon paths included in that book will be similarly under-represented, because few people will have access to them. However, to anyone using DDI and the CB, those paragon paths will be just as accessible as any other, so they'll be chosen on their merits.

Personally I'd say that sort of bias is actually a positive one. If a sourcebook didn't sell well because it was too "niche" or had generally poor content, but it happened to include a particularly good Paragon Path, then that PP would get short shrift in any survey of general gamers - but on the Character Builder that Paragon Path stands on its own merits, and the data will provide a truer indication of its popularity. 
There is plently of information in the CB to use. The issue is interpeting it. That will take a lot of work because of the nature of paragon paths. It is a forced choice at a level many players do not reach that is heavility dependent on your ability choices and class choice at level 1 and whose options were heavily limited by the date of creation and the telease dates of the books and DDI artiles that contained.

To the poor sap who has to analyze that info, you have my sympathy. You have plenty of work to do.

I wouldn't bother trying this with epic destinies. I can't expect there being many "played all the way to epic"PCs in the CB sine they constant say "not one plays epic". Tons of misleading one-shots most likely.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

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