Over powered Dimir?

61 posts / 0 new
Last post
I have been reading all the new cards for gatecrash.  I seems to me that blue has a very heavy advantage.  Milling is generally an effective tatic in limited due to the small decks.  With dimir able to cipher mill with some insane cards and play into simic and orzahov with ease, is it possible for a creature heavy deck to fight this mill attack?  With the ability to tap creatures unsummon them and exile them, can boros or even gruul do enough damage to win with a 40 card deck?  Just looking for people's feelings as I am begining to feel as if dimir has the whole edge and only dimir can win. 
I don't know, bro. The beats route is looking pretty paved.
Pretty sure Boros is going to beat face pretty hard in limited. Dimir should be good, but far from unstoppable. As far as standard goes, I don't think Dimir is even remotely OP, especially as the best thing they have going for them already got nerfed.
I'm thinking Orzhov is going to be the powerhouse (even though I'm partial to Simic.) Best thing, IMHO is going BUG. Take advantage of both Dimir and Simic (and Golgari, if you're throwing in RtR as well.)
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
I can't wait to beat face on all the people who think Dimir means they're gonna win. Dimir has a split card pool between mill and Aggro and control, and it's really going to cut their decks down in consistency. Boros race supreme.
Favorite set: Arabian Nights Favorite planeswalker: Taysir, the One Made of Five Favorite book cycle: Ice Age Favorite creature type(s): Elephant (W), Minotaur (R), Shade (B), Spider (G), Cephalid (U) Myr (Artifact) Pauper: Monoblack Control Modern: Zombie Tribal; Unyaro Stax Cube: The Moons of Mirrodin
When I last faced Mill in limited, I upgraded my deck to 53 cards for round two.
I'm thinking Orzhov is going to be the powerhouse (even though I'm partial to Simic.) Best thing, IMHO is going BUG. Take advantage of both Dimir and Simic (and Golgari, if you're throwing in RtR as well.)



I'm actually thinking Orzhov will have huge problems dealing with Boros and Gruul beats.  Extort won't be an effective ability until about turn 4-5, and even then you'll be lucky to widdle 1-2 health off if at all.  It has some efficient creatures with extort, however keeping them alive throughout is going to be a problem, particularly against gruul.  You're not going to want to block, as you'll lose your major win-con, however you can't let the huge damage through.  Even if you "safely" block, Bloodrush poses a massive risk.  If you can get the right set-up, it might work.   Add on top some red removal, and it doesn't bode well for Orzhov.

Really,  Gruul is looking like an absolute monster right now.  Extremely efficient creatures coupled with nearly every card you draw being relevant in some fashion, and extremely efficient Bloodrush, means its going to be exceedingly hard to last through the beatdown for any guild.

As for Dimir, it's not particularly strong.  Most of the Cipher cards seen as of right now are unplayable in limited due to high costs.   Mill could be a decent strategy, as Dimir does have plenty of cards which interact with Mill in a way that leads to a 2-headed front.  It's not particularly "split", as some are saying, as many cards can seemlessly move from one strategem to the next.  That said, it runs the same problem as orzhov in that it may have difficulties stabalizing.  I wouldn't count it out as it looks like it has a lot of potential.
Dimir is going for pseudo-control I'm guessing.

Hands of binding will be THE go to control card 
Yeah, dimir mill is ridiculously overpowered.  Fortunately, there's a trick you can do:  play a 60 card deck.  Play more of the cards you opened (and some extra lands) and watch your dimir opponent fail epically.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
No. Dimir is the weakest guild so far
That's the best thing about pre-releases.  Wizards tests limited so much that they really try to get everything fairly evened out.  There's no telling what's going to rule, and what's going to be least played.  When Return to Ravnica was released, everyone thought Rakdos was going to be awful, but they ended up being a very strong archetype, and most of the guilds were very well balanced (Izzet did suck tho).  Each guild has it's own strengths and weaknesses, but i do not think Dimir will be overpowered.  Gruul and Boros have possible (unlikely, but possible) turn 5 or so wins, a place in the game where Dimir and Orzhov will still be setting up.  It might play way better than how i see it, but i think Simic (without a splash) is sadly the Izzet of this set.   
boros and gruul are going to be scissors, simic is going to be rock, and orzhov is going to be paper; from what ive seen dimir is going to be that weird kid in the corner that no one wants to play with...
It's still too early to tell, man. We've only seen some "bombs" of the set. We still haven't seen the bulk of commons and uncommons of this set. Those are what sets the pace in limited, so it's too early to make assumptions at this point...
No. Dimir is the weakest guild so far



That's just dumb.


I think Dimir is that strongest because you can play the promo you get and by far has the best promo fpr play in limited.  
I have a theory that the promos compensate for a overall bad performance xP but im planning to play dimir anyway. dimir and simic.
I play for fun
When I last faced Mill in limited, I upgraded my deck to 53 cards for round two.



So when you lost you decided the best thing to do would be to make it harder to draw your best cards?
I think Simic will surprise players in how good it is. I do think Boros and Gruul will be good. For promos, I think Boros has the best.

I think people need to detach their feelings from RTR for limited. Highly aggressive builds sucked for that format. There was lifegain and populated tokens slowing everything down. Simic will do the best mimicking that behavior with all the "big butts" on their dudes and the evolve mechanic. I think 2/3s and 1/4s and all that just became important. Simic has to create a scenerio where they are throwing away dudes trying to get in that last damage. One thing is for sure, I don't see a lot of removal.

<a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/PlaneswalkerPoints/1206663433"><img src="http://pwp.wizards.com/1206663433/Scorecards/Landscape.png" border="0" /></a>

Dimir is crap.  The spells are overcosted or the creatures that are supposed to do the work can be taken out by burn with relatively no effect.
well in limited...

simic is basically playing the bant control game, counter using blue to make sure the field is clear, throw inexpensive creatures to attack and develop, and probably splash or red/black for a little more control or pump to finish the game

Boros is a mixture between RDW and izzet combo. play like rakdos, and finish the game with a teleportal or two. Probably splash green or black for some pumps/utilities in case of boardwipes and other fun stuff.

Dimir's general strategy is control and mill. Cipher makes it easier for them, and splashing extort spells will make sure they won't get killed too early and stealing some of the simic spells will give it some consistency. 

Gruul is a more balanced izzet. burns, combat tricks and aggroish creatures. I think this can stand alone.

Orzhov has a good laid out strategy, but not enough control cards, might need to splash blue to help them stall the game.

5 color or 4 color sadly can't play anymore b/c no chromatic lantern =( but with realmwright it'll be ok to splash an off-colour bomb or two
 

That's just dumb.


I think Dimir is that strongest because you can play the promo you get and by far has the best promo fpr play in limited.  


Sealed limited is not dictated by the dumbest bomb, but deck's overrall consistency. A consistent Selesneya deck can beat a bomby Azorius deck all day. So your assertion that the promo makes Dimir the best guild in sealed, despite it having subpar, overcosted cards is blatantly false.
We've seen almost none of the commons and very few of the uncommons.  No matter how good the rares you get, those are the cards that will do the bulk of the work and/or keep you alive until you can Bomb your way to victory.

Right now, Gruul looks disgustingly good, and Dimir looks like it will have to overcommit in order to even be effective, let alone win, but a couple of good Ciphers and some bad Bloodrush commons could change all that. 
We've seen almost none of the commons and very few of the uncommons.  No matter how good the rares you get, those are the cards that will do the bulk of the work and/or keep you alive until you can Bomb your way to victory.

Right now, Gruul looks disgustingly good, and Dimir looks like it will have to overcommit in order to even be effective, let alone win, but a couple of good Ciphers and some bad Bloodrush commons could change all that. 



Maybe we have it reversed?
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I can't see Dimir dominating. Milling won't be effective because it will be hard to get enough mill cards. Cipher won't be effective because it's too slow and people can always kill the creatres that have spells ciphered onto them. The control is...underwhelming. I see Dimir struggling with fast decks like Boros and Gruul. I see Boros and Gruul dominating the prerelease.
I can't see Dimir dominating. Milling won't be effective because it will be hard to get enough mill cards. Cipher won't be effective because it's too slow and people can always kill the creatres that have spells ciphered onto them. The control is...underwhelming. I see Dimir struggling with fast decks like Boros and Gruul. I see Boros and Gruul dominating the prerelease.



Gruul, fast? *snicker*
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Putting Cipher on a Gruul fatty would be decent.  Perhaps that cloning cipher on the giant insect? lulz
guys...

in order to play dimir, you DON'T play dimir. You play all other guilds to your advantage.

Come on, didn't Lazav say so in the trailer? xD 
We've seen almost none of the commons and very few of the uncommons.  No matter how good the rares you get, those are the cards that will do the bulk of the work and/or keep you alive until you can Bomb your way to victory.

Right now, Gruul looks disgustingly good, and Dimir looks like it will have to overcommit in order to even be effective, let alone win, but a couple of good Ciphers and some bad Bloodrush commons could change all that. 



Maybe we have it reversed?



I have no idea, honestly.

I just think Gruul looks grotesquely powerful right now, except so many people prioritize removal that Gruul's reliance on One Big Swing could hurt it even in limited, same for Dimir and Simic where you're going to have a single creature with multiple encoded spells or +1 counters that will vanish if it bounces or dies.  Boros needing at least three attackers could hurt it as well if removal turns out to be a real threat.

The only Guild I can't really count out is Orzhov because they don't care what you do they'll bleed you dry anyway.  Bouncing their creatures could make it WORSE because then they can cast them again and Extort even more. 

That's just dumb.


I think Dimir is that strongest because you can play the promo you get and by far has the best promo fpr play in limited.  


Sealed limited is not dictated by the dumbest bomb, but deck's overrall consistency. A consistent Selesneya deck can beat a bomby Azorius deck all day. So your assertion that the promo makes Dimir the best guild in sealed, despite it having subpar, overcosted cards is blatantly false.



Your right, its not about the biggest bomb, but having a garanteed doesn't hurt. Dimir has plenty to work with. Likely a person playing dimir will play Esper or Bug combining the assets from Orzhov or Simic.

And not sure how much limited you've played but if you build your deck you can usually get those "over-costed" spells out. While many of the cards will not be standard playable, in limited some of those spells are very "I win" feeling.
Red always overcommits, and green has this "Yeah, WotC keeps saying green has the best creatures, but they're actually fifth in that regard." complex that's been going on since Alpha.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Red always overcommits, and green has this "Yeah, WotC keeps saying green has the best creatures, but they're actually fifth in that regard." complex that's been going on since Alpha.


Do you have any idea what you're talking about?  Like, realy.  Overcommitting is only a problem when your opponent has a good way to wipe your board, which in limited, is almost never, and green does have the best creatures.  In m13, centaur courser and sentinel spider at common were just devastating, and golgari longlegs in rtr was one of the best common creatures in the set.

Everything you say convinces me that you don't have any idea what's going on. 

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
Why are mtg players so overly sensitive? Always one extreme or the other...but what do I know I'm just a troll here anyways....
Red always overcommits, and green has this "Yeah, WotC keeps saying green has the best creatures, but they're actually fifth in that regard." complex that's been going on since Alpha.


Do you have any idea what you're talking about?  Like, realy.  Overcommitting is only a problem when your opponent has a good way to wipe your board, which in limited, is almost never, and green does have the best creatures.  In m13, centaur courser and sentinel spider at common were just devastating, and golgari longlegs in rtr was one of the best common creatures in the set.

Everything you say convinces me that you don't have any idea what's going on. 



I would also like to add that in M13 Flinthoof Boar proved better for me than any of the other cards in the cycle.  Just to dang efficient of beats.

That said, green doesn't get a lot of playable "bomb" creatures in limited(More often than not being well to high costed to really be useful).  However what it does get is the vast majority of staple efficient creatures, such as Bears, Coursers, and other extremely efficient and splashable creatures.  So for limited settings, it does get the *best* creatures overall, however they are a bit "underwhelming" for some people. 
The best guild will be what you pull.  Sure, the Guild pack helps you, but you could go different colors all together depending in what is in your other 5. 

I agree, the Dimir promo is arguably the strongest, with Boros the only competing one.  I rank it second because you will want to hold him in your hand as removal or a finisher.  Orzhov one is third, followed by Gruul, and the 5th is Simic, which a 4 mana 1/1 looks horrible.

In regards to the OP, lol.  We really need to see the other 120 or so cards before making that kind of judgment, as someone mentioned already.  Limited is mostly commons and uncommons; you're lucky to play with more than one to two rares.  While the rare Dimir card is cool, the rare in your guild pack is a 6 mana one sided bad Smallpox.  Boros gonna sack a land and swing for lethal next turn.  The token copy creature is good, but 6 mana.  The mill card is great in limited; but really only late game unless there is a bunch of other mill cards you pull, so that's quite conditional.  Lazav is neat, but not as much as a threat as many of the other guild leaders.  He can only copy Obzedat once, then blinks back in as himself.  The control magic and the specter are probably the best of the options.  In seriousness though, the guild and Orzhov had better get some better removal spells than the charms, or Gruul and especially Boros will run all over them.

I'm planning on going Dimir; not because of power, but because of flavor.  I was going Dimir in RTR, lol, regards of the cards revealed unless they just tanked in comparison to the others.  I hate R/W, but I think a good Boros deck with a good curve of swinging dudes sideways (or that pump/first strike paladin uncommon with Vigilance....shudders) looks to be the strongest of all with what is revealed.  None.  None of Boros' guild (edit: rare) cards suck in limited.  Only that token maker enchantment is kind of questionable; but considering most limited games see past turn 9; I think it's fine.
The best guild will be what you pull.  Sure, the Guild pack helps you, but you could go different colors all together depending in what is in your other 5. 

I agree, the Dimir promo is arguably the strongest, with Boros the only competing one.  I rank it second because you will want to hold him in your hand as removal or a finisher.  Orzhov one is third, followed by Gruul, and the 5th is Simic, which a 4 mana 1/1 looks horrible.

In regards to the OP, lol.  We really need to see the other 120 or so cards before making that kind of judgment, as someone mentioned already.  Limited is mostly commons and uncommons; you're lucky to play with more than one to two rares.  While the rare Dimir card is cool, the rare in your guild pack is a 6 mana one sided bad Smallpox.  Boros gonna sack a land and swing for lethal next turn.  The token copy creature is good, but 6 mana.  The mill card is great in limited; but really only late game unless there is a bunch of other mill cards you pull, so that's quite conditional.  Lazav is neat, but not as much as a threat as many of the other guild leaders.  He can only copy Obzedat once, then blinks back in as himself.  The control magic and the specter are probably the best of the options.  In seriousness though, the guild and Orzhov had better get some better removal spells than the charms, or Gruul and especially Boros will run all over them.

I'm planning on going Dimir; not because of power, but because of flavor.  I was going Dimir in RTR, lol, regards of the cards revealed unless they just tanked in comparison to the others.  I hate R/W, but I think a good Boros deck with a good curve of swinging dudes sideways (or that pump/first strike paladin uncommon with Vigilance....shudders) looks to be the strongest of all with what is revealed.  None.  None of Boros' guild (edit: rare) cards suck in limited.  Only that token maker enchantment is kind of questionable; but considering most limited games see past turn 9; I think it's fine.



you can play a little bit of dimir everywhere by splashing a little hands of binding xD
Despite only seeing a few common spoilers, I'm pretty sure Dimir will be bad in limited.  Why?  Because MaRo said himself that they're putting a bunch of mill into it, and mill is just bad.  Mill is just rarely viable in limited because unlike creatures, it does nothing for your board position, and you can't just race beatdowns because mill isn't that fast.  Certain mill commons have seen niche play (curse of the bloody tome was a niche deck in ISD block, vedalken entrancer in m13), while some exceptionally powerful millers have seen play in otherwise mill-free decks (increasing confusion, sands of delirium, stern mentor, big jace).  In the case of the commons, the decks they saw play in were control decks that won by stalling the board and using the mill as inevitability, and in the case of the higher rarity cards, it was because of their extreme power, and they didn't encourage the playing of other mill cards.  Ironically, having a mill bomb makes you less likely to play other mill cards, especially the one-time mill cards that wotc loves to print.  Now, the problem arises from the style of deck that mill usually encourages:  you stall the board, then drop your entrancer or curse and wait until they die, or you wait until you draw into your mill bomb that finishes them in a few turns.  However, indications show that dimir will be not so good at that sort of thing.  First, they're mill themed.  This means a common or 2 that's a 1 shot mill spell, which you really don't want in your deck, because it doesn't help you stall the board.  "BUT IT'S MILL U WANT MILL!!!!"  If you're a deck that wins through damage, you don't want a lava spike, you want the ability to stop them from beating you down, then the ability to beat them down in turn, which you get from creatures or cards that kill their creatures.  Similarly, in mill decks, you want blockers and continuous mill.  The second factor that makes dimir bad for this is the "cipher" mechanic.  Cipher cards are pretty meh, but they get a lot better if your creatures are getting in there.  Mill decks do not "get in there".  This makes most cipher cards, well, bad.  It also means that wotc, being the intelligent people that they are, will print a bunch of small evasive guys.  Now, as a mill deck, you want your creatures to be able to effectively block to stall the board to let survive until you mill your opponent out.  Do you know what kind of creatures aren't good at stalling the board?  Small evasive guys.  So, in conclusion, it's very unlikely that mill will be a winning strategy in GTC limited.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
Despite only seeing a few common spoilers, I'm pretty sure Dimir will be bad in limited.  Why?  Because MaRo said himself that they're putting a bunch of mill into it, and mill is just bad.  Mill is just rarely viable in limited because unlike creatures, it does nothing for your board position, and you can't just race beatdowns because mill isn't that fast.  Certain mill commons have seen niche play (curse of the bloody tome was a niche deck in ISD block, vedalken entrancer in m13), while some exceptionally powerful millers have seen play in otherwise mill-free decks (increasing confusion, sands of delirium, stern mentor, big jace).  In the case of the commons, the decks they saw play in were control decks that won by stalling the board and using the mill as inevitability, and in the case of the higher rarity cards, it was because of their extreme power, and they didn't encourage the playing of other mill cards.  Ironically, having a mill bomb makes you less likely to play other mill cards, especially the one-time mill cards that wotc loves to print.  Now, the problem arises from the style of deck that mill usually encourages:  you stall the board, then drop your entrancer or curse and wait until they die, or you wait until you draw into your mill bomb that finishes them in a few turns.  However, indications show that dimir will be not so good at that sort of thing.  First, they're mill themed.  This means a common or 2 that's a 1 shot mill spell, which you really don't want in your deck, because it doesn't help you stall the board.  "BUT IT'S MILL U WANT MILL!!!!"  If you're a deck that wins through damage, you don't want a lava spike, you want the ability to stop them from beating you down, then the ability to beat them down in turn, which you get from creatures or cards that kill their creatures.  Similarly, in mill decks, you want blockers and continuous mill.  The second factor that makes dimir bad for this is the "cipher" mechanic.  Cipher cards are pretty meh, but they get a lot better if your creatures are getting in there.  Mill decks do not "get in there".  This makes most cipher cards, well, bad.  It also means that wotc, being the intelligent people that they are, will print a bunch of small evasive guys.  Now, as a mill deck, you want your creatures to be able to effectively block to stall the board to let survive until you mill your opponent out.  Do you know what kind of creatures aren't good at stalling the board?  Small evasive guys.  So, in conclusion, it's very unlikely that mill will be a winning strategy in GTC limited.



Well, there was also Speed-Mill in M13 with Mind Sculpt and Archeomancer as the main combo.  Was brutal if you get all the pieces right off the bat, and could score a bare minium of 4 Sculpts with at least 3-4 of the Mancers.  Catches one off guard when they get milled out on turn 5.  That said, it requires being lucky enough to draft all the pieces, and get enough in your opening hand to make it go off.  And that your opponent doesn't just increase the deck count by enough (As this deck didn't run much other than the needed components, and wouldn't be able to keep up with even sub-standard picks). 


Paragraphs, man.  The Enter key is your friend.

Also, don't argue with bay.  He's a wee bit crazy wrt Green (see: Design and Development forum).

"Go, then. There are other worlds than these." -- Stephen King, The Gunslinger

Please feel free to copy this message into your sig.

I don't know about limited, but I like it in standard.
I am Blue/Black
I-rock, 2 things:

1:  Even with effectively 7 mind sculpts (4 sculpts 3 archaeomancer), you still have to draw through half your deck before you've drawn enough sculpts to mill them out.  That's not speed milling by any stretch of the imagination.
2:  Good luck getting that many archaeomancers, it made most people's lists of top 5 blue commons.  It's not like mind sculpt where people will pass them to you super late. 

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
I-rock, 2 things:

1:  Even with effectively 7 mind sculpts (4 sculpts 3 archaeomancer), you still have to draw through half your deck before you've drawn enough sculpts to mill them out.  That's not speed milling by any stretch of the imagination.
2:  Good luck getting that many archaeomancers, it made most people's lists of top 5 blue commons.  It's not like mind sculpt where people will pass them to you super late. 



Oh, I agree completely.  The speed-mill only worked on me once in a game-1 situation where I was hit with 2 sculpts on turn 2 and 3 respectively, archaeomancered turn 4, and sculpted twice on turn 5(For those keeping track, that's 28 cards to sculpt, 7 to the opening hand, and 5 drawing).  It was a fluke, as he drew out three sculpts and an archaeomancer in the opening turns.  Just pointing out that some people *did* try it, and it could be successful if you got lucky.  Game 2 & 3 he didn't draw into enough Sculpts or Mancers to mill me out. 

But it highlights the problem with such a style:  You need to get lucky.  You'll win a game or two with it, but it's an incredibly fragile style of deck that requires amazing opening hands.

And to bring this full circle back to the discussion:  The *only* way straight mill will be viable as a complete strategy in limited is if there are enough efficiently costed and cheap spells to effectively make an entire deck of Mindsculpt.  Not mindsculpt-like, but effectively mindscuplt where you can consistently mill 7 cards with every spells, from turn 2 on.

Of course it is hypothetically possible to make a control style deck that focuses on mill as a condition, but I haven't seen enough of dimir commons/uncommons to say that this will be viable in the least. 
dimir is just as overpowered as izzet was back in RtR. so, hardly at all

~Your either my puppet or my matchstick~

color preferences (1st is fav and so on):

198732583 wrote:
Oh Ajani seems to like Elpheth's milk, meow.
Sign In to post comments