## Shapeshifter

10 posts / 0 new
Ichibann
Joined Dec 1969
What are Shapeshifter's P/T outside of the battlefield? 0/0 or 0/7?
May I choose a number in range 0-7 or 1-6?
cyphern
Joined Dec 1969
0/7

Shapeshifter's ability functions while not on the battlefield, but since it can't determine "the last chosen number", 0 is used instead. That means its power is 0 and its toughness is 7-0 = 7.
208.2a The card may have a characteristic-defining ability that sets its power and/or toughness according to some stated condition. (See rule 604.3.) Such an ability is worded "[This creature's] [power or toughness] is equal to . . ." or "[This creature's] power and toughness are each equal to . . ." This ability functions everywhere, even outside the game. If the ability needs to use a number that can't be determined, including inside a calculation, use 0 instead of that number.

Example: Lost Order of Jarkeld has power and toughness each equal to 1+*. It has the abilities "As Lost Order of Jarkeld enters the battlefield, choose an opponent" and "Lost Order of Jarkeld's power and toughness are each equal to 1 plus the number of creatures the chosen player controls." While Lost Order of Jarkeld isn't on the battlefield, there won't be a chosen player. Its power and toughness will each be equal to 1 plus 0, so it's 1/1.

(Note: this is my second reply to the question. I initially answered that they would be undefined, and thus treated as 0/0. I deleted that answer after looking up the above rule)
Ichibann
Joined Dec 1969
I ping it as one question is left unanswered.
cyphern
Joined Dec 1969
Oops, i thought question was a continuation of the first one, and was asking whether you could choose a number while outside the battlefield (to which the answer would have been "no").

Shapeshifter allows you to choose in the range 0-7.
Chaikov
Joined Dec 1969
Oops, i thought question was a continuation of the first one, and was asking whether you could choose a number while outside the battlefield (to which the answer would have been "no").

Shapeshifter allows you to choose in the range 0-7.

Shapeshifter says «choose a number between 0 and 7».
Doesn't that mean the same as from 1 to 6? Shouldn't it rather say «from 0 to 7»?

If I steal a hundred dollar from a loot of one thousand, people might notice;

If I steal a hundred dollar from a loot of one million, I might get away with it;

If I wish to steal even more and still go unnoticed, I need to make the loot bigger.

Now you know why taxes always go up.

Looting: ''the plundering of public assets by corrupt or greedy authorities'' (Wikipedia)

Merriam-Webster has many definitions for between. The important ones are:

1) in the time, space, or interval that separates
2) from one to another of

The use of the second definition is perfectly acceptable, and is in common use in English. I agree that your wording is less ambiguous, however.
Chaikov
Joined Dec 1969
Even worse:
If «Choose a color between White and Black» gives you only two choices, Black or White,
shouldn't «Choose a number between 0 and 7» also give you only two choices, zero or seven?

If I steal a hundred dollar from a loot of one thousand, people might notice;

If I steal a hundred dollar from a loot of one million, I might get away with it;

If I wish to steal even more and still go unnoticed, I need to make the loot bigger.

Now you know why taxes always go up.

Looting: ''the plundering of public assets by corrupt or greedy authorities'' (Wikipedia)

The CR doesn't define "between," so we're on our own on this one ^_^;
ikegami
Joined Nov 2007
2264 Posts
"In between" refers to the space seperate two objects. Consistent with the dictionary entry quoted below, "between" alone is inclusive.

e.g.
"Pick a number between 1 and 10."
"Between 25% and 40% off."
Chaikov
Joined Dec 1969
The Antiquities printing of this card didn't even allow seven to be chosen; only zero to six...

If I steal a hundred dollar from a loot of one thousand, people might notice;

If I steal a hundred dollar from a loot of one million, I might get away with it;

If I wish to steal even more and still go unnoticed, I need to make the loot bigger.

Now you know why taxes always go up.

Looting: ''the plundering of public assets by corrupt or greedy authorities'' (Wikipedia)