Ruling on the feild needed

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In the races of stone there are 2 feats that I have a question about the first is stone form: Stone form gives you a +4 vs poisons +4 to NAC and gives you a slam attack acording to your size large 2d6 med 1d8 small 1d6. The second one is Powerful wild shape: it states that you are considered 1 size larger and that your natural attacks are as if they are one size larger. Now if you are a goliath barbarian with a mountain rage ACF that makes you large for reach and other goodies so the question is if you take improved natural attack ( slam ) what would your damage be 

I think it would be that of a colossal char dealing 4D6 damage plus your strangth bonus is this correct ? and if so what happenes if you add in warshaper to the mix ? what would the damage be ?


The last question is can you spend 2 wildshapes at one tie and get both in 1 standard action as it dose say you can spend I would think you could add more into 1 to get other effects   


By the way this could be done by level 7 
1 barbarian 6 druid        
Doesn't work. See why in your other thread.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Ok, I think the question here should be "Can I use Stone Form and Powerful Wild Shape at the same time?"  Now I'm inclined to say "No" as both offer a variation on your normal Wildshape ability and I don't believe you can use mulitple wildshapes at the same time.  Now I will entertain the idea that you can wildshape into a Powerful Stone Form which could be done if you assume that Stone Form just adds to the list of things creatures you could select when using PWS.

Stone Form give you a 2d6 slam attack as your Goliath gets to be treated as a larger creature due to Powerful Build assuming Powerful Build still applies as you have now Wildshaped into something else; without Powerful Build you're just a medium sized Stone Form with a d8 slam.  The thing is that Powerful Wildshape is letting you keep your "Powerful-build" ability while wildshaped so this is actually needed if you want to get that 2d6 slam when using Stone Form.  Now if we throw "Improved Natural Attack" into the mix you're effective size will increase one spot at make the 2d6 into 3d6.

Now a little secret you may be missing is that Mountain Rage (making you large when you rage) removes your Powerful Build so your actual damage doesn't go up.  If you used Mountain Rage with you Improved Slam Attack you would not get damage to go up anymore then it did when you utilize Powerful WS.

I hope you are understanding this but Powerful Build and Mountain Rage basically do NOT interact with each other at all when it comes to damage.  Powerful Build lets you act as if you are large in many ways but Mountain Rage superceeds that and actually MAKES you large.  Your typical Goliath Barbarian who is using Mountain Rage does not normally get to wield a huge weapon; with or without mountain rage a goliath can wield a large weapon but the two do not stack. 
 
Ok reading over the ACF goliath barbarian I know your logic is flawed it dose not replace powerful build and you do not lose powerful build it replaces the barbarian rage but not the golitah powerful build


From the book:  A goliath barbarian who takes this 1-st level racial subtitution level can tap into the mountans strength to increase his size and power during a rage. When he rages his size increases to large The change increase his reach to 10' and applies a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC. However he dose not gain additional benifits on weapon size and grapple checks since he already has them from his POWERFUL BUIL ABILITY. If mountain rage replaced powerful build ability he would not have the weapon and grapple bonuses he gets from hir POWRFUL BUIL ABILITY now would he so I realy think that the logic is gone south on this one and they do stack


About the using 2 wild shape effects this one could be a little harder to come up with but since it says you can spend 1 daily use for this I can not find any place that says you can not spend more then 1 daily use of this ability the only thing that might be the equalizer here is that is dose say as a standard action but again there is nothing saying you can not use up 2 daily uses in a standard action
You've been told you're wrong by three different people in two different threads, who all gave you the same reason. You want to continue believing as you do, feel free, bro. We've played that game before.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Oh goodie, another one of these.
 
Ok reading over the ACF goliath barbarian I know your logic is flawed it dose not replace powerful build and you do not lose powerful build it replaces the barbarian rage but not the golitah powerful build

From the book:  A goliath barbarian who takes this 1-st level racial subtitution level can tap into the mountans strength to increase his size and power during a rage. When he rages his size increases to large The change increase his reach to 10' and applies a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC. However he dose not gain additional benifits on weapon size and grapple checks since he already has them from his POWERFUL BUIL ABILITY. If mountain rage replaced powerful build ability he would not have the weapon and grapple bonuses he gets from hir POWRFUL BUIL ABILITY now would he so I realy think that the logic is gone south on this one and they do stack


You are right except you are not.  If Mountain Rage kept the Powerful Build abiilty it would give the Goliath the ability to wild HUGE weapons and this is NOT the case.  The text you are quoting is just telling you that the Goliath ALREADY HAS THOSE THINGS because he had Powerful Build but now that he is ACTUALLY large size he doesn't see any new improvement.

Powerful Build gives the goliath some of the things that being large sized would give him.  Actually BECOMINIG Large, in this case because of Mountain Rage, means he no longer benefits from Powerful Build because he is that size.  While it isn't and actual size category it would help if you think of a creature with Powerful Build as being "medium plus" sized; that plus lets it use some things as if it were large and of course when it becomes large it already has those things so his boost at medium size doesn't give him any more advantages now that he is large.
 
Steven: That last point is technically incorrect: you can be Large with Powerful Build (the classic example is a half-giant psychic warrior with Expansion). Powerful Build uses "one size larger than you actually are" type language and thus works with size changes; if it used "You are treated as Large" language (i.e. in the Jotenbrud feat), it wouldn't work with size increases.

(EDIT: The reason that's the quintessential example is because both races with Powerful Build are not Humanoids, so Enlarge Person won't work on them; goliaths favor Barbarian and half-giants favor Psychic Warrior. A Half-Giant Cleric casting Righteous Might would get the same benefit, but Expansion is a level 1 psychic warrior power (and one of the best, so it shows up on nearly every psywar build)).



Your conclusion still holds, since Mountain Rage includes the clarification text "he does not gain additional benefits on weapon size and grapple checks, since he already has them from his powerful build ability. " Furthermore, the example barbarian with mountain rage, Akala Fishstringer Kulie-Kaman, provides statistics during a rage that are consistent with merely being Large, not Large+Powerful Build. (For example, he's a level 12 barbarian with Strength 18 (24 while raging). Outside of a Rage, his grapple modifier is +20: +12 base, +4 Strength, +4 Size (effectively Large, from being Medium size with Powerful Build). During a Rage, his grapple modifier is +23: +12 base, +7 Strength, +4 Size (he's actually Large here; Powerful Build isn't having an effect). If he were Large with Powerful Build active (as if he'd been hit with a size-increasing spell) he'd have a grapple modifier of +27 in a rage, since he'd effectively be Huge for that.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

From the book:  A goliath barbarian who takes this 1-st level racial subtitution level can tap into the mountans strength to increase his size and power during a rage. When he rages his size increases to large The change increase his reach to 10' and applies a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC. However he dose not gain additional benifits on weapon size and grapple checks since he already has them from his POWERFUL BUIL ABILITY.

If mountain rage replaced powerful build ability he would not have the weapon and grapple bonuses he gets from hir POWRFUL BUIL ABILITY now would he so I realy think that the logic is gone south on this one and they do stack

I bolded the important part for you.  Here's how Powerful Build works: if it's advantageous to you, you are treated as a Large creature, including the ability to wield bigger weapons.  Actually BEING a Large creature gives you +4 to grapple, -1 AC, and -1 to hit.  Which of those things are advantageous to you?  Exactly; that's WHY it specifically mentions Powerful Build in the entry; so that you know NOT to add the extra beneficial mods of being treated as Huge.  For a comparison, look at a half-giant using the Expansion power.  No matter how many size categories that half-giant gains, he still retains Powerful Build, because it's not specified that he doesn't add those bonuses.  Now do you understand what we mean?

Cuz if you don't... we're still done.  Those of us that have replied to your question have already been through the "Unending Argument Game" with another poster.  We're not doing it again.

EDIT: And once again, I've been ninja'd by Tempest.   
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Steven: That last point is technically incorrect: you can be Large with Powerful Build (the classic example is a half-giant psychic warrior with Expansion). Powerful Build uses "one size larger than you actually are" type language and thus works with size changes; if it used "You are treated as Large" language (i.e. in the Jotenbrud feat), it wouldn't work with size increases.


I can conceed that point but then again RoS is another one of those books I do not own.  I probably will continue to view a creature with "powerful build" as an intermidiate size and not let it carry.  In any case with the Mountain Rage variation of a Goliath Barbarian the size increase from the rage "absorbs" the Powerful Build benefits; in most ways the only reason that variation even exsists is because of the Powerful Build ability.
 
I can conceed that point but then again RoS is another one of those books I do not own.  I probably will continue to view a creature with "powerful build" as an intermidiate size and not let it carry.


Powerful Build actually first showed up on half-giants in the XPH, and as a result is in the SRD. (The Jotunbrud feat I mentioned predates it, in Races of Faerun, but it's not as good - it's human-only and regional, it doesn't provide the weapon size effect, and it is locked to Large size rather than "one size larger").

If you want to be really silly, though, let me introduce you to Tiny von Big McLargeHuge, a Small character who can, as needed, count as Tiny, Small, Medium, or Large (he's got Slight Build - it's a find-and-replace of Powerful Build, for one effective size smaller - along with Jotunbrud and a feat which is functionally identical to Powerful Build). Using actual size-changing powers (Compression and Expansion), he can switch to Small/Medium/Large, Medium/Large/Huge, Diminutive/Tiny/Small/Large, or Fine/Diminutive/Tiny/Large as needed (two of those are available from level 1). It only worked in that particular game due to the DM's vision of kobolds, and was kind of duration-limited, but it's still quite funny.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Oh yes, the wonderful world of Psionic.  With that said it should be obvious I also don't have any of those and I while I've seen them I generally skipped over those SRD subsection for psionics along with the epic part.

Although it is getting off topic a character who's size can count as any of FOUR categories is insane.  Being able to push that to huge even....  I guess my only question about that is how effective is it outside of its wild size changing abilities although if we're honest a creature with that much size variation can fill many rolls.
 
OK the points are there and I can kinda see them and I do understand what you are saying but the one point that is not there is it dose not say he loses or it overlaps or it replaced his powerful build if it did I would say you are as right as rain but it dose not. So what I think it dose it this I think powerful build it allows you to act as if you are one size larger so you are stronger then all the rest we will say the mountain rage just makes your body fit what it can do so you do not become huge you just gt the rest of the stats of the large char that you did not have in the first place.


Dose that make sense ? If so then I see that since you are now large your damage from stoneform would be 2D6 damage and with the powerful build wich you still have but can not use huge weapons your powerful wild shape would make them 3D6 with all the penalties of a large creature then the improved natural attack makes them 4D6.


Now I know you guys must think I'am crazy for thinking this way it is just what I see in the right ups I do see your points I realy do but with the way the wording is in the books I see my calculations as well      
OK the points are there and I can kinda see them and I do understand what you are saying but the one point that is not there is it dose not say he loses or it overlaps or it replaced his powerful build if it did I would say you are as right as rain but it dose not. So what I think it dose it this I think powerful build it allows you to act as if you are one size larger so you are stronger then all the rest we will say the mountain rage just makes your body fit what it can do so you do not become huge you just gt the rest of the stats of the large char that you did not have in the first place.

Pretty much, yes.  In effect, all it does it drop your AC by 1, drop your AB by 1, and gives you reach (that last one is the only reason to take it).
Dose that make sense ? If so then I see that since you are now large your damage from stoneform would be 2D6 damage and with the powerful build wich you still have but can not use huge weapons your powerful wild shape would make them 3D6 with all the penalties of a large creature then the improved natural attack makes them 4D6.

I have no idea what you're saying here.  Remember, dood; punctuation is your friend.
Now I know you guys must think I'am crazy for thinking this way it is just what I see in the right ups I do see your points I realy do but with the way the wording is in the books I see my calculations as well

Uh, dood, did you completely ignore the part where Tempest pointed out the write up of the character with Mountain Rage in the book?  What write-ups are you talking about?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Be very careful when you start reading things.  There are people who try reading too much into things and will sometime latch on to a certain thing an run with it despite it being completely wrong.  Remember that the English language isn't always the prettiest and can be down right confusing at times.
 
Going to look at the char in the book I  missed it if he has mountain rage and powerful build in the write up then I'am correct in my reading of the abilities and they stack together. If it dose not then I wil have to try to figure out why that is because yes I can see what you are saying and yes it kinda makes sense the way it is written says something different

Ok can not find the char write up in the book what page is it on ? 


Have we come up with a ruling on if you can use 2 wild shape to get the benifits of both feats. at one time of if they would be 2 different actions ? I can not find it one way or the other except that it is a standard action. 

I see it as you can wild shape, you can expend as many daily uses you wish to add as many special additions to your wild shape per day that you have. so if you can wild shape 5 times a day and you have 4 feats that are addons to your wild shape fill your boots and use them all at once or one at a time
Races of Stone p. 76, under "Important Kathaal Members". It's the first entry.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
The Grapple bonus there is a dead giveaway. There's no way it can be as high as it is outside of a rage without Powerful Build, and there's no way it can be as low as it is during a rage with Powerful Build.

Have we come up with a ruling on if you can use 2 wild shape to get the benifits of both feats. at one time of if they would be 2 different actions ? I can not find it one way or the other except that it is a standard action.


Powerful Wild Shape is a standard action.
Stone Form is a standard action.

No, you can't combine them, they're separate actions.

In fact, while I don't think this is the case, a DM could very plausibly say they replace each other (as Powerful Wild Shape causes you to assume a powerful animal form, while Stone Form causes you to assume a stony form: this is kind of like polymorphing into a lion and then polymorphing into a moose. The result is that you are a moose, not a saber-toothed mooselion).

I see it as you can wild shape, you can expend as many daily uses you wish to add as many special additions to your wild shape per day that you have. so if you can wild shape 5 times a day and you have 4 feats that are addons to your wild shape fill your boots and use them all at once or one at a time


This would only be the case if those feats were free actions. There are some wild feats which do this (Boar's Ferocity, for instance), but Stone Form is not one of them because it takes a standard action to use.



(EDIT: Since I haven't replied: Steven, Tiny von Big McLargeHuge never saw actual play to my knowledge; it was more an example of how the system could stretch. It's possible in standard D&D to count as one of three sizes all at once (Play a kobold with the Races of the Dragon enhancement which gives them Slight Build, and use the Touchstone feat linked to the Sunken City in Sandstorm for an effective Powerful Build, and you're Small who can count as Tiny or Medium as the need arises; the fourth size came from Jotunbrud's explicitly Large wording, but Jotunbrud isn't open to standard kobolds like it was in that game), but that's about it, and it isn't all that impressive unless you're trying to expressly accomplish this.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Ok I think I got a way to do thid


Goliath Druid Avenger 5 with the mountain rage:
Master of many forms. 7


Change into stone form goliath. Then rage ( lose Powerful build ) wild shape into a goliath using your powerful wild shape to regain your powerful build to your goliath wild shape I knew there is a way to do it and there is nothing that says you can not wild shape into your own form :P          
OR would it even be better

Mountain rage makes you large then wild shape into a goliath of large size that means you could use huge size weapons  
Ok I think I got a way to do thid


Goliath Druid Avenger 5 with the mountain rage:
Master of many forms. 7


Change into stone form goliath. Then rage ( lose Powerful build ) wild shape into a goliath using your powerful wild shape to regain your powerful build to your goliath wild shape I knew there is a way to do it and there is nothing that says you can not wild shape into your own form :P

Except for, y'know, the parts that talk about what you CAN wild shape into.  

Seriously, dood; if you're so ****ing fixated on being Large and keeping your powerful build, play a half-giant psychic warrior.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Serious man the master of many forms allows you to change into a monstours human and what are goliaths monstours human ding ding ding and you can not have the mountain rage with a half giant
and sorry I could not find the chat on page 79 I looked could not find
and you can not have the mountain rage with a half giant


Draco was referring to other ways to become Large. It's not very hard at all. In fact, you're castrating yourself by looking at a Druid and seeing "MAKE ME BIGGER HIT STUFF HARDER" when Wild Shape can do so much more on its own than play with your size and strength. Similarly, you can dramatically outdo that build on the melee damage front just by considering Power Attack.

and sorry I could not find the chat on page 79 I looked could not find

Page 76, not 79. Draco listed not only the page number but also the heading ("Important Kathaal Members"), which is on the second column of page 76. His stat block is listed there in the text.

I listed the important stuff about it earlier: He's got a +12 base attack bonus and 18 initial Strength when not raging, which gives him a (listed) +20 grapple bonus. Since he lacks anything else that modifies grapples, there's an extra +4 in there somewhere - which is coming from the fact that he's got Powerful Build and is therefore treated as large.
However, he has Mountain Rage (which changes his size to Large and gives him +6 Strength, or 24 overall). His Raging statistics list this, and also give a +23 Grapple modifier. That's three points higher than before - exactly what you'd get from +6 Strength, but curiously missing the four extra points you'd get if your size went up (i.e. if he were Large+Powerful Build and thus effectively Huge). He is therefore Large - just Large, not Large+Powerful Build - when Mountain Rage is active.

He still has the Powerful Build ability (so he doesn't lose access to things that require it), but it isn't providing any benefit when he's raging.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

and sorry I could not find the chat on page 79 I looked could not find

Next time, maybe you should try looking on the right page?  Let's try this again:
Races of Stone p. 76, under "Important Kathaal Members". It's the first entry.

Serious man the master of many forms allows you to change

Which isn't wild shape.  There's a difference, dood.
into a monstours human and what are goliaths monstours human

So... you're going to change back into yourself?  That's awesome!  Too bad GOLIATH BARBARIANS with the MOUNTAIN RAGE ACF no longer have powerful build.  Seriously; it's not that hard.
ding ding ding

That might have hurt my feelings... had you been right.
and you can not have the mountain rage with a half giant

I know.  You can get something better.

"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls