AC stacking issues

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So both shield and armor stack with their respective enchantments. But since you also have a "vest/shirt slot", can you enchant it to further increase the bonus?

I suspect it would stack with the shield, but not with armor.

But do Bracers of Armor stack with enchanted shirts? The former provide only an armor bonus and the latter contribute the enchantment. So a unarmored character could wear the bracers, an enchanted shirt or vest and even the monks belt to get some nice AC.

In that vein: Is a floating animated shield a shield you use for restrictions like dervish dance or monk AC? Since it states that its ACP applies, I wouldn't suspect so, but I want to be sure

Thanks

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I'm the farthest thing from an expert, but...

it would depend on the type of enchantment that's on the shirt, wouldn't it? The way I read Magic Vestment, for example, it provides an armour bonus, and two bonuses of the same type (armour on the bracers and armour on the shirt) don't stack. 

On that note, I was thinking along similar lines: would anyone like to comment on whether one can, for example, buy Bracers of Armour +1 and then cast a 12th-level Magic Vestment on them to make them +3 instead, giving you +3 Touch AC?
Your shield will give you a "shield bonus" to AC.  Your armor will give you an "armor bonus" to AC.  Magical enhancment so your armor or shield do NOT provide "enhancment" bonuses to your AC but rather provide enhancement bonuse to the type of bonus the equipment provide.  A +5 chain shirt provides a +9 armor bonus to AC and NOT a +4 armor bonus and a +5 enhancment bonus.  Bracers of Armor provide an Armor bonus to AC and thus will NOT stack with actual armor worn.

I'm not sure what kind of AC bonus you would get from a "shirt/vest" but most likely it will either be an armor bonus, in which case it really should be in the armor slot, or more likely it will provide a Deflection bonus which is something different and will stack with shield and armor bonuses.

I would say that an Animated Shield is "wielded" even if it is "floating" and thus if you have things that can only be done without a shield you can't use them and if the shield's ACP applies then it will still apply.

Magic Vestment enhances a suit of armor or a shield, it will do NOTHING for your Bracers.  You can cast in on your regular clothes where it will provide an armor bonus but it still will not provide the "force" effect that the bracer will against INCORPOREAL attacks.  I'll just note that Bracers of Armor do NOT boost your "Touch AC" one bit and they are just like wearing normal armor if someone tries to grab you, lay a hand on you, or shoot you with a Ray.  There is a big difference between "touch attacks" and what are often called "incorporeal touch attacks" but the differences are often lost and not well understood.
 
Ok this is a easy one and it is not that hard to figure out


It works like this anything that provides a bonus to AC that is an enchantment and dose not say armor shield or what ever stack so if yo have a +5 large shield and a +5 full plate have +8 AR from the armor a +2 from the shield and a +10 from enchantments on top of that you can have deflection bonus from ring of protection natural from amulets dodge from feats. Now all of those ones do not stack together unless yo have feats that say other wise like the extra ring feat in eberron allowes you to wear 4 rings on your hands and it sates they all work so if yo have 4 rings of protection they all work if you have that feat. Now you want to put an enchantment on a vest to give you a bonus to AC now that is where you come into the problem since a vest dose not have a AR normally the enchantment you put on it becomes AR bonus. so the higher of the AR would over lap


A monk could have a vest of armor and still get all of his special attacks and what not since he is not armored it is just like bracers of armor but on a vest no big deal. There is a perfect example in the monster manual of a vampire monk with bracers of armor and it gives you a full break down 

I hope this helps and remember that when you play your job is to make your DM's head explode as much as you can since he is trying to do the same thing to you        
Multiple Rings of Protection won't work together because you can't stack Deflection bonuses. They'll all still function, but they won't stack. Only the highest will apply.
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I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
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Thanks so far, but can you enchant some Robes, Shirt, Vest to provide an armor bonus and at the same time effectively use Bracers of Armor?

The question is concerning a character that would have 26 DEX and will occasionally get a further +6 from Wildrunner frenzy. I'm thinking about the armor for him. It seems as if +8 Bracers will suffice to put it above a possible Mithral Chain Shirt or Breastplate +5, although the price of 64,000 gp vs. 26,000 or 30,000 doesn't look so good.

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Thanks so far, but can you enchant some Robes, Shirt, Vest to provide an armor bonus and at the same time effectively use Bracers of Armor?


No, because absolutely everything you just mentioned would provide an "armor" bonus. It's the bonus type, not the slot, that matters.

It doesn't matter if that armor bonus comes from mundane armor, bracers of armor, or the mage armor spell - it's still an Armor bonus and it won't stack with each other (any more than wearing two suits of platemail stack). However, each of those three would stack with a Shield bonus, whether it came from a steel shield, a Shield spell, or a Ring of Force Shield.

The question is concerning a character that would have 26 DEX and will occasionally get a further +6 from Wildrunner frenzy. I'm thinking about the armor for him. It seems as if +8 Bracers will suffice to put it above a possible Mithral Chain Shirt or Breastplate +5, although the price of 64,000 gp vs. 26,000 or 30,000 doesn't look so good.


Cheaper bracers of armor will do - it's always cheaper to get multiple smaller bonuses than one big bonus when you're looking for magic. (Simple example: +1 ring of protection, +1 amulet of natural armor, and +1 bracers of armor provides +3 AC for 5000gp. A set of +3 bracers of armor costs 9000gp. And if someone tries to land a touch attack against you, the first will be better than the second.) Not to mention none of those items have any max dexterity limit. Look into natural armor, deflection modifiers, and so on rather than looking at an actual "Armor" bonus.

(Although bracers of armor may be less numerically impressive than a suit of magic armor, they retain one advantage over the other items listed here: They are half the cost for the same bonus, while keeping the lack of a dex limit.)

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DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Tempist hit the nail on the head when he said it is the type not the slot How ever if you have a chain shirt which gives you a +4 to ac and you cast mage armor which gives you a +4 to AC and you are attacked by a ghost which can by pass armor you would still have the same AC because mage armor is works against incoparial creatures and armor will not.


So can you put armor bonus on a rob a vest a shirt a shoelace yes but remember it and I can not stress this enought it WILL NOT stack with anthing this that gives you armor bonus. Also remember if you make a magic item and it normally dose not have a AR like a chain shirt of hide etc that item be it a robe a shirt a skirt the enchantment bonus you put on it becomes AR   
Ok this is a easy one and it is not that hard to figure out

It works like this anything that provides a bonus to AC that is an enchantment and dose not say armor shield or what ever stack so if yo have a +5 large shield and a +5 full plate have +8 AR from the armor a +2 from the shield and a +10 from enchantments on top of that you can have deflection bonus from ring of protection natural from amulets dodge from feats. Now all of those ones do not stack together unless yo have feats that say other wise like the extra ring feat in eberron allowes you to wear 4 rings on your hands and it sates they all work so if yo have 4 rings of protection they all work if you have that feat. Now you want to put an enchantment on a vest to give you a bonus to AC now that is where you come into the problem since a vest dose not have a AR normally the enchantment you put on it becomes AR bonus. so the higher of the AR would over lap
...
I hope this helps and remember that when you play your job is to make your DM's head explode as much as you can since he is trying to do the same thing to you        



So much misleading or just plain incorrect information in here:

If you have a +5 large shield and +5 full plate you are getting a +13 armor bonus to AC from the armor and a +7 shiled bonus to AC from the shield.  You are NOT get a +8, +2, a two +5 bonuses to your AC.  Then enhancments improve the protecting the item they are on provide; they do NOT provide protection all by themselves.

Now you can add a Deflection bonus (often provided by Rings), a natural armor bonus (which Amulets enhance), and Dodge bonuses plus a few other types of thing such as DEX or WIS modifier to your AC.  Things stack together if they provide a different type of bonus.  Now unless I'm missing something wearing four Rings of Protection will give four different sources for your Deflection bonus BUT you will only get to use one of them (presumably the highest) at any given time.

I also disagree COMPLETELY with your last statement.  That is the kind of attitude that may be fun for a little while or for easily ammused groups but it is a terrible way to play the game in the long run.  DnD is a COOPERATIVE game and that also means cooperation between the PCs and the DM.  Pulling BS on the DM and using "gotcha" builds is in extremely poor taste.  A DMs job is to actually make an enjoyable experience for the players (if not their characters) and should just challenge them but that is far from trying to destroy them.

The question is concerning a character that would have 26 DEX and will occasionally get a further +6 from Wildrunner frenzy. I'm thinking about the armor for him. It seems as if +8 Bracers will suffice to put it above a possible Mithral Chain Shirt or Breastplate +5, although the price of 64,000 gp vs. 26,000 or 30,000 doesn't look so good.

With DEX 26 (a +8 modifier) who occasionally sees that go up another six points (+3 modifier, MAKE SURE IT ACTUALLY STACKS!) you probably are NOT going to wear armor.  A mithral Chain Shirt caps your Armor + MAX DEX at +10 which is only slightly better then your DEX alone and worse then your enhanced DEX.  I'm leaving enhancement bonuses out of this because basically ever +X you could put on your armor you could also put into Bracers which means Bracers +4 will provide your character with about the same AC as having a +4 Mithral Shirt.  Here is a run down for your character and the cost for that AC:

No armor:  +8/+11 DEX = final AC 18/21
Padded Armor:  +1 Armor +8 MAX DEX = AC 19 (5gp)
Mithral Shirt:  +4 armor +6 MAX DEX = AC 20 (1,100 gp)
+4 Bracers of Armor: +4 armor +8/+11 DEX = AC 22/25 (16,000 gp) 
+4 Padded Armor: +5 armor +8 MAX DEX = AC 23 (16,155 gp)
+4 Mitral Shirt:  +8 armor +6 MAX DEX = AC 24 (17,100 gp)
+8 Bracers of Armor: +8 armor +8/+11 DEX = AC 26/29 (64,000 gp) 

With your INSANE DEX score armor really doesn't help you that much so you want to avoid "real" armor that has any kind of MAX DEX.  Typically, characters will select armor based on the armor's MAX DEX rating.  I will note there may be some other special materials that increase the MAX DEX for non-metal Armors.  There are also abilities that can increase an armor's MAX DEX rating but those will come at the cost of enhancment bonuses.
Ok Steve-O before you have a mental melt down look at the total amount you have  down and the total I have down O boy the are the same amounts go figure that


Now because of the wounderful world or wording in D&D book from the Eberron Campaign setting the feat extra rings 

" You can wear up to four magical rings two on each hand and all fuction normally

This could be implied that if you have 4 rings of protection the all fuction and you get the bonus from all four rings. DO not look deeper into the feat just look at the wording and it should be clear that this is an abuse rule and you would end up with fights but with the wording that is there I'am not wrong  

and the best armor you can get for high dex there are 2 that I know of 1 is the celestial armor for 25K +8 max dex bomus yes please but yo have ot be good aligned the othere comes from relics and rituals it is called clothborn you can take full plate and put clothborn on it to make it have the same propeties as padded byt it keeps the +8 to AC but you can not have other effects on it hope this helps
Except that, you know, bonuses of the same type not stacking is "functioning normally".

If you want to cheese out multiple rings of protection with artificers, you can, but it involves the Item Alteration infusion (which changes the bonus type one magic item provides to a different type while the infusion lasts).

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
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[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
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[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
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[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
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[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
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[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

And steveo what do you call a insane armor rating anyways the numbers you have there are not even close without any magical effects and at level 1 I can have an AC of 24 that is right 24 at level 1 no magic and 1 feat that is equal to your +4  mitheral chain shirt


And just incase anyone would like to know here is the way
Human Fighter: Dex 12 (+1)
base 10 full plate +8 max dex+1  dodge+1 Tower shield +4   =24 against 1 enemy and 23 against the rest now take mobility too and that is 28 and 27 against AOO  


So with a little bit of thought you can find things that will help you out even at low levels. at level 1 with a AC of 23 or 24 you should not be getting hit one bit and it can get realy stupid once you start going up in levels    
I stated it was a rule bracker and it all came down to the interpertaion of the feat do not blam me for finding the wording and saying you could argue the fact
You can afford fullplate at level 1? I have never been able to do that...
It was a gift from his family???
And steveo what do you call a insane armor rating anyways the numbers you have there are not even close without any magical effects and at level 1 I can have an AC of 24 that is right 24 at level 1 no magic and 1 feat that is equal to your +4  mitheral chain shirt


And just incase anyone would like to know here is the way
Human Fighter: Dex 12 (+1)
base 10 full plate +8 max dex+1  dodge+1 Tower shield +4   =24 against 1 enemy and 23 against the rest now take mobility too and that is 28 and 27 against AOO  


So with a little bit of thought you can find things that will help you out even at low levels. at level 1 with a AC of 23 or 24 you should not be getting hit one bit and it can get realy stupid once you start going up in levels    



Full Plate costs 1500 gp, way more than you can have at level 1, if even build for.

Back to my guy with 26 DEX, though
That would be at level 20 with a +4 inherent bonus and +6 gloves, so a starting 16 and pumping STR. This level 20 outfitting is more to see what would be possible. I don't expect these tomes/manuals to pop up in actual games, not mentioning even getting there ;)

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Well, bluescreen cost me a long reply, so I'll be brief.
I stated it was a rule bracker and it all came down to the interpertaion of the feat do not blam me for finding the wording and saying you could argue the fact


If you want to play at the multiple-rings-of-protection game with an artificer, you don't need to look any further than the infusion that changes a bonus from one type to another. THAT would stack. Extra Rings gives you two extra slots for rings. It does not alter the function of those rings. (You can wear four rings normally, but only the first two will have any effect, and even among those it'd be their normal behaviour to not stack if they did the same thing.)

The interpretation that is correct is not always the one that gives you the most pluses. Unless, you know, you allow Hungry Jack. (Quoted from Frank Trollman, 2004.)
Did I never tell you guys about "Hungry Jack"? He was a human rogue, who took his 10th level bonus feat as "Gape of the Serpent" - which is totally legal because he can take any feat he wants and doesn't have to meet prereqs as it is a bonus feat.

So he ran around eating people, which was totally awesome. Truly a great character. Not overpowered, not even really all that good. But it made for a great intro to intimidate checks.

"I will eat you."

Good times.

Besides, as others have pointed out, the maximum possible starting GP for a fighter is 240. I seem to recall you can go a little higher than that (as in, around +500gp higher) with the right starting feats, but even that isn't enough to buy full plate (which is why most starting characters who rely on heavier armor start off with scale mail in their starting packages - of the core armors, it provides a decent bang for a modest buck. Yes, it's worse than the chain shirt, but it's also a fraction of the cost.)

A more experienced answer would have been to recognize that you'd need feats to get that AC, and switch to using a Warforged with the Adamantine Body feat. These guys are quite tough at level 1 (in fact, a warforged crusader with that feat and a decent shield is basically unkillable through standard combat, along with decent immunities against several kinds of magic). However, they still fall damn fast to Color Spray or pit traps.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I know I hate reading these so my appologies now.
Ok Steve-O before you have a mental melt down look at the total amount you have  down and the total I have down O boy the are the same amounts go figure that

Just because two things produce similar results means each was done correctly.  Implying that the "enhancement bonus" is a seperate bonus can lead someone to incorrect conclusions.  "If someone cast's Mage Armor on me and I am wearing +3 Padded Armor then what does my AC become?"  Assuming MAX DEX doesn't come into play BOTH of them provide a +4 armor bonus to AC.  When you seperate the enhancement bonus out you run into people who will say you get +7 to your AC with +4 coming from the Mage Armor spell and picking up +3 from the Padded Armor's enhancment bonus.  This is why there is a problem with listing things as an "enhancment bonus" to AC.
Now because of the wounderful world or wording in D&D book from the Eberron Campaign setting the feat extra rings 

" You can wear up to four magical rings two on each hand and all fuction normally

This could be implied that if you have 4 rings of protection the all fuction and you get the bonus from all four rings. DO not look deeper into the feat just look at the wording and it should be clear that this is an abuse rule and you would end up with fights but with the wording that is there I'am not wrong .

Tempest already pointed out out that "function normally" means you just get on Deflection bonus.  I mean a character can wear TWO Rings of Protect and have them both "function normally" yet you'll only see an AC bonus from one of them.  Attempting to say you can add the bonuses from 4 rings of protection clearly points to a lack of understanding of how the rules work at best and manchkinism at worst.
And steveo what do you call a insane armor rating anyways the numbers you have there are not even close without any magical effects and at level 1 I can have an AC of 24 that is right 24 at level 1 no magic and 1 feat that is equal to your +4  mitheral chain shirt 

And just incase anyone would like to know here is the way
Human Fighter: Dex 12 (+1)
base 10 full plate +8 max dex+1  dodge+1 Tower shield +4   =24 against 1 enemy and 23 against the rest now take mobility too and that is 28 and 27 against AOO  

So with a little bit of thought you can find things that will help you out even at low levels. at level 1 with a AC of 23 or 24 you should not be getting hit one bit and it can get realy stupid once you start going up in levels

I'm not sure what I would call an "insane" Armor Class.  I do however believe that DEX 26 is a pretty insane stat under what I consider to be some standard assumptions:  I assume point buy stats.  I assume that number to be "permanent" but not gained through though the use of many magic items.  I am also assuming a human character and not some "monster DEX race."  The DMG doesn't give an NPC Rogue DEX 26 until 20th-level so I think it is a little high especially when someone is complaining about the cost of boosting AC.

Now I will say congratulations, you appear to have found what can be considered an upper end of non-magical AC for normal PC characters.  If it helps you could forget the human and put a Halfling into Full Plate and give it a towershield for that AC 24 without even needing the Dodge feat.  I could point out that Full Plate cost 1,500 gp which is well over the budget of most 1st-level character.  Using special materials can push the non-magical AC up a little more by letting in more DEX.  I'm sure I'm missing some kind of rare armor somewhere but generally speaking the best ARMOR + MAX DEX combo is +11 to +9 (that's Mithral full plate costing 10500 gp, a mithral shirt is +10 for 1,100 gp, and boring old Padded is that 5 gp.)  A shield is good for a couple more points of AC depending on how much you want to weigh yourself down but after that AC adds up.

One of the weaknesses with 3.5 is that after you hit that non-magical AC plateu you almost need to resort to magic if you want your AC to keep up with BAB that just go up and up.  Of course at higher levels AC doesn't matter so much because the attacks you often need to worry about are magical in nature and don't even care what your AC is.
 
Back to my guy with 26 DEX, though
That would be at level 20 with a +4 inherent bonus and +6 gloves, so a starting 16 and pumping STR. This level 20 outfitting is more to see what would be possible. I don't expect these tomes/manuals to pop up in actual games, not mentioning even getting there ;)


I didn't see this one before my last post(taking things a few post at a time) but I hope/believe you see why I am saying "DEX 26 is a bit insane."  Your reasoning is sound although at 20th-level the cost for those ACs I mentioned earlier should barely register in your WBL.  The most "cost effective" way to boost AC through magical means is usually to spread out where you get your bonuses from.  A basic +1 enhancment to your armor, a +1 deflection bonus from a Ring, and a +1 enhanced natural armor bonus from an amulet will net you +3 AC for a whole lot less then a single +3 from any one of those items would cost.
 
Just because two things produce similar results means each was done correctly.  Implying that the "enhancement bonus" is a seperate bonus can lead someone to incorrect conclusions.  "If someone cast's Mage Armor on me and I am wearing +3 Padded Armor then what does my AC become?"  Assuming MAX DEX doesn't come into play BOTH of them provide a +4 armor bonus to AC.  When you seperate the enhancement bonus out you run into people who will say you get +7 to your AC with +4 coming from the Mage Armor spell and picking up +3 from the Padded Armor's enhancment bonus.  This is why there is a problem with listing things as an "enhancment bonus" to AC.

Heh.  I remember a few of you correcting me on that about a year ago.  
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Just because two things produce similar results means each was done correctly.  
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Implying that the "enhancement bonus" is a seperate bonus can lead someone to incorrect conclusions.  "If someone cast's Mage Armor on me and I am wearing +3 Padded Armor then what does my AC become?"  Assuming MAX DEX doesn't come into play BOTH of them provide a +4 armor bonus to AC.  When you seperate the enhancement bonus out you run into people who will say you get +7 to your AC with +4 coming from the Mage Armor spell and picking up +3 from the Padded Armor's enhancment bonus.  This is why there is a problem with listing things as an "enhancment bonus" to AC.

Heh.  I remember a few of you correcting me on that about a year ago.  

And you wouldn't have been the first.  This is why it is important to make these 'corrections' when the issue first shows up.  Even then some people never learn.

Ok Steve +3 padded armor dose not give you a +4 to AC it gives you a +1 AR to AC and a +3 enchantment to AC enchantments can and always will be stackable unless they are like bracers of armor where the enchantment becomes the AR. So if yo have armor on you can enchant it sith a shield with an enchantment they all stck there is no problem with this at all. Say you put on a bracers of armor+5 Key word armor and the armor you are wearing gives you a +3 armor and is enchanted +2 the +2 enchantment and the +5 bracers would stack together but the +3 armor would be out matched by the bracers. make sense I hope
The same thing would happen with the mage armor since mage armor has a higher level then the padded armor the +3 enchantment would stack but the +1 AR would not so it would be +7 to your AC till the mage armor ran out.


Same note if you had a shirt with a +3 enchantment on it and someone cast mage armor on you your AC would be +4 because the enchantment becomes the AR for a shirt because a shirt dose not have a AR normally hope this helps you out   
Ok Steve +3 padded armor dose not give you a +4 to AC it gives you a +1 AR to AC and a +3 enchantment to AC enchantments can and always will be stackable unless they are like bracers of armor where the enchantment becomes the AR. So if yo have armor on you can enchant it sith a shield with an enchantment they all stck there is no problem with this at all. Say you put on a bracers of armor+5 Key word armor and the armor you are wearing gives you a +3 armor and is enchanted +2 the +2 enchantment and the +5 bracers would stack together but the +3 armor would be out matched by the bracers. make sense I hope

The same thing would happen with the mage armor since mage armor has a higher level then the padded armor the +3 enchantment would stack but the +1 AR would not so it would be +7 to your AC till the mage armor ran out. 

Same note if you had a shirt with a +3 enchantment on it and someone cast mage armor on you your AC would be +4 because the enchantment becomes the AR for a shirt because a shirt dose not have a AR normally hope this helps you out


I am sorry but you are very wrong about this.  A suit of +4 padded armor does indeed give a character a +4 armor bonus to AC.  I am also sorry but the last part of your post actually doesn't make any sense to me, or I imagine anyone else, although we can guess what you are trying to say.  I believe you are saying that a character who is wearing a suit of +2 studden leather armor who put on a pair of +5 Bracers of Armor would be getting +5 AC from the Bracers AND +2 AC from his armor for a total of +7 to AC; unfortunately you are incorrect as both the bracer and the armor provide a +5 armor bonus to AC.

I will point out to you that I could cast Mage Armor on a naked person and they would gain a +4 armor bonus to AC.  NO actual "armor" is required to get the armor.

Perhaps I need to ask:  What edition of the game are you playing/giving answers for?  I do not think it matters but I just want to cover the bases.

What is your native language?  I am asking because I do not believe it is English and if you are anything like the last non-English speaker to make a splash on this board it will be IMPOSSIBLE to explain anything to you in English so that you will understand when you are wrong.

One other question for you Kingofswing:  Why do you think you are "helping me out" when you obviously do not know the rules being talked about?  Do you think this is my first time posting to this board or even answering questions about these specific issues?  If so I suggest you take some note of my join date and number of post and maybe do a little looking around these boards.   I will admit that join date and post count are not absolute measures because some people join and then finally use their account years later and others post extensively other places here before migrating to a different board but I am neither of those.  I'll admit that someof my currently listed post count (I've lost thousand on the count during reorganizatons) comes from the StarWars RPG board but anyone who has spent any time talking about 3.5 on these boards in the past TEN years would know who I am.
NO NO NO NO NO how can you not see this it is the clear and this easy


chain shirt AR +4

Bracers of Armor +4 ARis +4

+3 Chain shirt AR +4 enchantment +3 total +7 

+3 chain shirt  with bracers of armor +4 toal is +7 

+3 chain shirt with a shirt of armor +5 is total +8

So if it has no AR ( armor rating ) and you enchant it the enchantment becomes the AR for that item like a shirt 

So having bracers of armor and a +3 chain shirt on the +3 and what ever AR rating is higher stack for your AC         


       
Sorry, dood. The +3 enhancement bonus makes it BECOME +7, it's not +4 armor, +3 enhancement. How can you not see THAT?
(Not trying to be offensive; just taking the same question and turning it around.)
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
NO NO NO NO NO how can you not see this it is the clear and this easy 


I suggest you read this where it talks about an Enhancment Bonus and Armor.  Follow the link but here is the last line of it:
"Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC, they don't apply against touch attacks."

It tells you that enhancement bonuses to armor effectively increase the armor's bonus to AC.  There is "armor bonus plus enhancement bonus" rather there is ONLY "armor bonus."

Now please explain to me how I am in the wrong and how I am supposed to see something that obviously is not true.
 
Ok time to go right down to basics 

To start with like bonuses do not stack so if you have a +3 full plate and the +3 is armor not an enchantment then you would have a +3 full plate that would give you the same as a full plate that is not magical so any magical enchanments can not be armor


The next part is what is added to make up your AC the andswer is this

Base 10
Ability score ( dex wis con some times all) 
AR if you are wearing any
Deflection like from rings of protection 
Natural like from an amulet or if yo have hard skil 
Shields
Insight from your god
Dodge 
Size 
and finally enchantments that come from armors and shield ( these dodge and natural are the ONLY ones that stack together for your AC) because they say t hey add to an existing effect not that they increase it.
 because if you have a chain shirt that is a 4 AR and you get a +5 enchantment on it you have increased your AC from what you are saying Steve. So if that is gthe case why in the world would you ever put an enchanment on a low level armor that has a higher AR then your enchantment it would be a pointless act.
NO NO NO NO NO how can you not see this it is the clear and this easy


chain shirt AR +4

Bracers of Armor +4 ARis +4

+3 Chain shirt AR +4 enchantment +3 total +7 

+3 chain shirt  with bracers of armor +4 toal is +7 

+3 chain shirt with a shirt of armor +5 is total +8

So if it has no AR ( armor rating ) and you enchant it the enchantment becomes the AR for that item like a shirt 

So having bracers of armor and a +3 chain shirt on the +3 and what ever AR rating is higher stack for your AC



en·hance  (n-hns)
tr.v. en·hanced, en·hanc·ing, en·hanc·es
1. To make greater, as in value, beauty, or effectiveness; augment.

2. To provide with improved, advanced, or sophisticated features: computer software enhanced with cutting-edge functionalities.



[Middle English enhauncen, from Anglo-Norman enhauncer, variant of Old French enhaucier, from Vulgar Latin *inaltire, from Late Latin inaltre : Latin in-, causative pref.; see en-1 + Latin altus, high; see al-2 in Indo-European roots.]


en·hancement n.

en·hancer n.

en·hancive adj.

If there is nothing to enhance (no armor "rating") then you can't enhance it as that is the definition of an enhancement. A good case in point is that the lightest armor in the game, the gnome twist cloth, offers an armor bonus of +1 with no dex cap.

EDIT: The one example where this is not the case is the amulet of natural armor which will give you a natural armor bonus regardless if you have one or not but will still stack if you have one (however the item is based off of a spell that does just that).


Ok time to go right down to basics 

To start with like bonuses do not stack so if you have a +3 full plate and the +3 is armor not an enchantment then you would have a +3 full plate that would give you the same as a full plate that is not magical so any magical enchanments can not be armor


The next part is what is added to make up your AC the andswer is this

Base 10
Ability score ( dex wis con some times all) 
AR if you are wearing any
Deflection like from rings of protection 
Natural like from an amulet or if yo have hard skil 
Shields
Insight from your god
Dodge 
Size 
and finally enchantments that come from armors and shield ( these dodge and natural are the ONLY ones that stack together for your AC) because they say t hey add to an existing effect not that they increase it.
 because if you have a chain shirt that is a 4 AR and you get a +5 enchantment on it you have increased your AC from what you are saying Steve. So if that is gthe case why in the world would you ever put an enchanment on a low level armor that has a higher AR then your enchantment it would be a pointless act.



The enhancement bonuses are part of the listed armor bonuses (See definition of enhancement) as they enhance them.
To start with like bonuses do not stack so if you have a +3 full plate and the +3 is armor not an enchantment then you would have a +3 full plate that would give you the same as a full plate that is not magical so any magical enchanments can not be armor


By "not an enchantment" I presume you mean a permanent effect (i.e. you are wearing +3 Full Plate, and not a suit of nonmagical plate armor with the Magic Vestment spell cast on it). "Enchantment" is a school of magic.

The +3 full plate has a +8 (starting) armor bonus, and has a +3 enhancement bonus to that armor bonus. When it is equipped, your AC gains a +11 Armor bonus.

The rest of your post is kind of overcomplicating things, so I'll give a simpler example.

You pick up a +1 heavy shield (again, this is a magic shield, not a shield with a temporary spell or similar). The shield has a base Shield bonus of +2, and carries a +1 enhancement bonus to its shield bonus. When you equip the shield, you gain a +3 Shield bonus to AC.

Assuming 10 Dexterity, Medium size, and no other modifiers, such a character's AC would be 24: 10 + 11 Armor +3 Shield.

The enhancement bonuses are to different things (the armor's Armor bonus and the shield's Shield bonus), not to the same thing (i.e. you do not have two separate Enhancement bonuses to "AC"). If the enhancement bonuses were applied directly to AC instead of to the component bonuses, such a character's AC would be 23: 10+8 Armor +2 Shield +3 Enhancement (as the shield's enhancement wouldn't stack with the armor's enhancement).

because if you have a chain shirt that is a 4 AR and you get a +5 enchantment on it you have increased your AC from what you are saying Steve. So if that is gthe case why in the world would you ever put an enchanment on a low level armor that has a higher AR then your enchantment it would be a pointless act.


Steve is saying such a suit of armor would improve your AC by 9.

As far as your AC is concerned, that is entirely an ARMOR BONUS, as opposed to an Armor Bonus To AC and a separate Enhancement Bonus To AC.
Similarly, the enhancement in this case is an ENHANCEMENT bonus to the armor's Armor bonus, not an Armor bonus (i.e. a +5 chain shirt provides a +9 Armor bonus (+4 base +5 enhancement), not a +4 armor bonus and a +5 armor bonus).



Answer concisely: Is the above example (Medium, 10 Dex, +3 full plate, +1 heavy shield) an AC 24 or an AC 23 character?

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Ok time to go right down to basics 

To start with like bonuses do not stack so if you have a +3 full plate and the +3 is armor not an enchantment then you would have a +3 full plate that would give you the same as a full plate that is not magical so any magical enchanments can not be armor

Show

The next part is what is added to make up your AC the andswer is this

Base 10
Ability score ( dex wis con some times all) 
AR if you are wearing any
Deflection like from rings of protection 
Natural like from an amulet or if yo have hard skil 
Shields
Insight from your god
Dodge 
Size

and finally enchantments that come from armors and shield ( these dodge and natural are the ONLY ones that stack together for your AC) because they say t hey add to an existing effect not that they increase it.
 because if you have a chain shirt that is a 4 AR and you get a +5 enchantment on it you have increased your AC from what you are saying Steve. So if that is gthe case why in the world would you ever put an enchanment on a low level armor that has a higher AR then your enchantment it would be a pointless act.



Did you even read my previous post where I liked the SRD so it could tell you want an Enhancment bonus means/does?  I am also still wondering why you think you are "helping me out" when is should be pretty obvious you are the one here who needs help.

Now the first part you seem to have some kind of misconception.  A suit of +3 Fullplate will give a character a +11 armor bonus to AC.  That is the basic +8 from the full plate which is ENHANCED +3 to produce a final benefit of +11.  The enhancement bonus is part of the armor and adds directly to it.

I can easily admit that the stuff you have that I put in the sblock is right and I even think you hit all the things that can go into your AC.

You do realize that when you "add to an effect" you "increase the effect"?  When you add an enhancment bonus to armor or shield you increase the effect of the armor or shield you are adding it to.  You even say it so I hope there is some kind of language barrier to explain why you can not understand it.

If you have a Chain Mail Shirt (+4 armor) and give it a +5 enhancement you increase that +4 armor bonus to +9 (+4+5).  I have NEVER said anything to suggest that when wearing a +5 chain shirt you would only get a +5 armor bonus unless for some reason you can not read English.
 
It's pretty simple.

As per SRD/PHB


Stacking


In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.




Armor Bonus:

An armor bonus applies to Armor Class and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply againstincorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow.


Full plate gives you 8 Armor Class to AC
Bracers of armor give you  from 1 to 8 Armor Class to AC

If I am not horribly mistaken Bracers of Armor does NOT stack with Full plate since they both provide ARMOR bonus.


SRD again:

In general, magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than nonmagical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses)

By this rules you can enchant Bracers of Armor by an additional +5, giving a total of 13 AC. I think you can go as far as giving them special armor properties, such as fortification, but I am not 100% sure about this.


Enhancement Bonus

An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC, they don't apply against touch attacks.




Some of you suggested that armor gives only armor bonus and the +5 enchancement is a separate bonus. Enhancement bonus improves the existing Armor Class/Shield bonus. Full plate +5 armor won't give 8 Armor class and 5 enchancement, it will give 13 AC.

For example, If you have a full plate +5 and a tower shield +5 you will have a total of 32 AC. If we concider that a full plate +5 gives 8 Armor class and 5 enchancement you will have 27 AC.


Several of you are right but you put the facts in different ways you all fail to understand.

@Steven: It does not matter if English is your native language. I may speak it with an accent, I may make grammar mistakes (most of them come from the fact that I type too fast) but I do a decent job at it. If you are so proud with your English - good for you. Just so you know: apart from Bulgarian (my native language) I can also speak and read and write freely in English, German and Russian. Also I can speak and read Spannish. I have Cambridge's Certificate in Advanced English and Sprachdiplom. We (the guys who learned English at school, non natives) have the courtesy of speaking and writing in your language and you try to make fun of us. Try learning Bulgarian, I will laugh all my heart's content while reading your sentences.
I think your reading a little too far into his comment Nistra. Nowhere did Steven0 say anything about people needing to speak English, nor did he say anything about non native speakers of the language in any derogatory fashion. He simply remarked on someone's apparent inability to comprehend his stance on the matter when he probably felt that (as I know I do) it was not only plainly explained, but backed by proof via the link to the SRD which you yourself just quoted. As a second point I would like to make, he said "...unless for some reason you can not read English", this obviously precludes not only you but anyone capable of understanding the written form of English, and since that is the language we are all so far communicating in, was clearly meant as a sarcastic remark on the persons oversight of his point and probably also towards their attitude that he was in the wrong when he clearly wasn't. No one thinks that mastery of English is a necessity to post here, and as a matter of fact in the general section of the boards a native Spanish speaker posts frequently in fairly broken/fragmented English, and the most complaint you'll find about him is that he tends to argue his case even when presented with solid proof he is wrong on a topic (though he seems to have calmed that down a bit as of late).

So in summation, no one thinks English is a must, it just happens to be the most common language on the board, and no one will get any measure of disrespect for it not being their native language, or for even being one they are particularly good at. All anyone asks is that if you want to prove a point to back it up with facts, and that manners be applied to debate (which sometimes people can easily slip on when frustrated).
Ok I guess I did not make it clear but there was a good write up from someone. But I will try to clear up my mistakes


First off armor bonuses do not stack this is correct like if you have bracers of armor and then put on full plate the full plate would over lap the bracers and give you the full plate AC and the bracer AC is not effective any more


No from what the right up is saying from steve what I got from it was that a +3 full plate which dose have a total ac of 8 and an enchantment of 3 for a total of 11

Now if you call the enchantment a bonus to the AC then I guess you can call it armor but if you say it is armor to the armor which is the way I read steves post it would not stack. because they are both armor so the +3 would be taken away and you would just get the 8 from the AC of the full plate. I think all this is the way ppl look at the words and what they are saying 

Just so long we agree that there are several ways to get you AC to stupid levels and the like in a short period of time. Now the bracers of armor getting enchantments in one word NO because I think to mage the amror rating for the bracers you need to use the same spells to make the enchantment to it but this is an interesting idea and I think it might be something to look into and see what your DM says I now my DM being a crazy as he is will say no because of something stupid. But that is for another time          
So in summation, no one thinks English is a must...

It used to be in the CoC that English was the official language of the boards, and that posting in other languages was a moddable/bannable offense.  It appears that WotC removed thst section, though.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
An enhancement bonus to armor enhances the ARMOR but does NOT do anything for other things.  A suit of +3 full plate has its non-magical armor bonus enhanced +3 point for a total of +11.  The +3 on that suit of armor does NOTHING to anything else.  It simply improves the armor and then that improved armor improves your AC.

If you are wearing +2 padded armor and then recieve the Mage Armor spell that +2 enhancment does not "go looking" for some other Armor value to improve.  It already has its job and that is improving the Armor bonus provided by the suit it is actually enhancing.  Now in this cast the Mage Armor's +4 armor bonus will superceed the +2 padded armor's +3 armor bonus which means the actual suit of armor, along with its enhancment, aren't all that useful here.

Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus to AC.  They are not "armor" in the traditional sense so they can not be enhanced like you may think they can be although they actually could be improved.  In many ways Bracers of Armor are just like an Amulet of Natural Armor with both providing an Enhancment bonus to a certain type of defense.  With the Amulet it will boost a creature's natural AC by the listed amount (it still remains a "natural armor" boost to AC) and but many PC species have 0 natural armor.  By themselves Bracers of Armor actually provide NO bonus at all although it is typed as an "armor" bonus; The +X you see for Bracers are all enhancement just like you would see on "real" armor except that they start with nothing but, as an exception, can exceed the normal +5 maximum.

If you look at the prices for Bracers of Armor and compare them to the how much it would cost to add the same +X to armor you should notice that they are identical.  Because of this some DMs will allow armor abilities to be added through Bracers of Armor but you need to pay careful note of stacking rules along with pricing guidelines.

 
Wow ... I feel the need to apologize for this. I didn't expect my question to start such an argument ... but I hope that it is finally settled.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_iswhite.jpg)

I didn't expect my question to start such an argument ... but I hope that it is finally settled.

This isn't an argument, it's only four pages long.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome Lurker, Fulminating Crab, Ironglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
I didn't expect my question to start such an argument ... but I hope that it is finally settled.

This isn't an argument, it's only four pages long.


Four pages?  I still have it all on one as I'm typing this reply but then I like seeing the thread.  It hasn't devolved into an "O ma, got a be right" thread although I was worried.

I'm not sure there was much "arguement" but more of an "enlightenment" about how things work.  I believe I answered TorianT's question with my first post (#3) and MANY of the posts since then are just showing you why that is.  If there is any arguement it is when people are saying I said things I never did say; I don't think anyone likes it when that happens to them.
I have my post count/page set at 40, so it's still just one page for me. That said, I think Slagger was referring to threads over in PE Gen that hit double digits even for me.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
I still cannot believe nobody brought up the poorly-designed armor add-ons from OA yet.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls Resident Secretly Ron Paul God of Spite and Sloth