D&D Next Q&A: Advantage Dice Rolls, Ranged Fighters & Popular Paragon Paths

Q&A Haiku Time!

Advantaged skill dice?
No. (Dis)advantage affects
Just d20 rolls.

Parry for ranged fighters?
A ranged fighter has chosen
To not need Parry.

Survey for 4e'rs?
There's no need. The online tools 
Tell us everything. 
Online tools!

Everyone all together now say it all at once...

ONLINE TOOLS!

I can't hear you!

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

1. This was my interpretation as well.

2. I am not sure how I feel about this. If parry is supposed to be a defining class feature of the fighter, it seems odd that a significant portion of fighters will ignore or rarely use it. I understand what Rodney is syaing about the trade-offs between melee and ranged, and obviously not every character is going to get equal use of every class feature, but this still does not sit right.

3. I assumed the answer was this, but it is nice to see it in writing.

Survey for 4e'rs?
There's no need. The online tools 
Tell us everything. 



Seeing as how everyone I know has stuck with pre-Essentials and old copies of the offline character/monster builder or building characters by hand (GASP! THE HORROR!!!) I highly doubt that the online tools give them anything close to an accurate picture of what the majority of 4E fans actually want.

No wonder DDN is getting things so wrong when it comes to appealing to 4E fans (or at least to the 4E fans that I know).
Fighters who focus on ranged does not mean fighters are useless in melee. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

2. I'm not sure this bothers me at all. If someone moves into melee range, it is still usable, but I do not see too many people using a bow, crossbow or sling as a tool with which to parry.

"The turning of the tide always begins with one soldier's decision to head back into the fray"

Re: parry, I see the point of increased personal risk (being in melee) = increased personal reward (getting to use Parry).  That makes sense, and I'm ok with that.  It's about risk mitigation.  In melee, Parry mitigates your risk.  Using ranged weapons, the risk mitigation is that you aren't in the front lines.  In both scenarios you have chosen your preferred way to decrease the damage you take.

However, the other side of the coin is that by choosing a particular playstyle, you also don't get to make full use of your class features.  That doesn't feel right to me.  I'd like to see an either-or option, perhaps, maybe like the 4e Ranger - if you use melee weapons, you get the Parry feature, OR, if you use ranged weapons, you get the Point-Blank Shot feature (just for the sake of example).  Something like that.  You choose which when you create your character, and it defines your build.
Fighters who focus on ranged does not mean fighters are useless in melee. 



Correct. The range fighter encourage the enemy to engage him into melee. :P

Survey for 4e'rs?
There's no need. The online tools 
Tell us everything. 



Seeing as how everyone I know has stuck with pre-Essentials and old copies of the offline character/monster builder or building characters by hand (GASP! THE HORROR!!!) I highly doubt that the online tools give them anything close to an accurate picture of what the majority of 4E fans actually want.

No wonder DDN is getting things so wrong when it comes to appealing to 4E fans (or at least to the 4E fans that I know).

Yeah, I'm not remotely confident WotC can get good data from just the online CB. They really need to have a survey for PPs.

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Fighters who focus on ranged does not mean fighters are useless in melee. 



And it also doesn't mean that a ranged fighter should have a lower AC either.   There is nothing stoping me from building a marksman that uses plate.


Parry is just an action that all characters can attempt.   A fighters ability to be good at it or do something extra with a parry should be optional.    

One way to balance it is to also give the fighter a ranged feature.  


How can the Wizards.com community be only a small percentage of the D&D community but all needed paragon path data is from the site?

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

Agreed. Frankly, that answer felt a bit obnoxious, as if to say that our opinion only really mattered if we were willing to pay the ongoing subsciption to use the new Character Builder. I know I'm the only person in my group who does that.* I realize that's not what they meant by it, and my guess would be that the most popular paragon paths among DDI subscribers are also the most popular paragon paths among  4E players in general. Still, I don't see why Wizards can't send a Paragon Path survey out to everyone, if only just to confirm what the Character Builder data is telling them.

*We're on hiatus, I'm letting the subscription lapse for now.
How can the Wizards.com community be only a small percentage of the D&D community but all needed paragon path data is from the site?

It's a big enough sample size.

And, quite honestly, they want to cater to the people who pay, not the people who don't.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

To claim that a point-and-click survey of the WotC forum-posting denizens will better represent D&D usage than data from a tool which is actually used to play the gamei is ludicrous. By sample size alone. Obviously any poll is gonna be imperfect (Nate Silver says so!), but you're surely better off observing actual RPG behavior than asking people to describe their own RPG behavior. To boot, even if there were a systemic bias in the paragon-path preferences of the paying and non-paying groups of 4.0 devotees, whose opinion should WotC care about?
Huh... I used the online character generator primarily for proof of concepts. I'd have an idea and want to see how it'd work in 4e. I wonder if I could adjust their data by making several characters w/ paragon classes I dig...
"What's stupid is when people decide that X is true - even when it is demonstrable untrue or 100% against what we've said - and run around complaining about that. That's just a breakdown of basic human reasoning." -Mike Mearls
"Yawns, turns and leaves". See ya.
How can the Wizards.com community be only a small percentage of the D&D community but all needed paragon path data is from the site?


The number of active forum members is small (less than a few hundred).  The number of D&D Insider users (tens of thousands) is much much larger.
@mellored

Since doesn't make sense. There are plenty of purchasable 4e content that has nothing to do with the Char Builder. All the 4e games I've been involved that ever got to the paragon path in were leveled naturally at the table by hand.

Its like finding the most popular classes in 3.0 by looking at Neverwinter Nights players.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

@mellored Since doesn't make sense. There are plenty of purchasable 4e content that has nothing to do with the Char Builder. All the 4e games I've been involved that ever got to the paragon path in were leveled naturally at the table by hand. Its like finding the most popular classes in 3.0 by looking at Neverwinter Nights players.


And I've run a campaign from level 1 to 30 and none of my players would ever consider using anything but the character builder.  Sheesh.  Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.  Wizards has been studying and using the Character Builder since before the playtest to gauge popularity and have been reconciling the data with other data they were getting about playstyles from Encounters and other sources.

We can just decide that they're wrong arbitrarily based on anecdotes.  But down that path lies madness.  There's no end to that reasoning.
@mellored Since doesn't make sense. There are plenty of purchasable 4e content that has nothing to do with the Char Builder. All the 4e games I've been involved that ever got to the paragon path in were leveled naturally at the table by hand. Its like finding the most popular classes in 3.0 by looking at Neverwinter Nights players.

You don't need a to interview every single person to get a good idea of what paragon paths' are popular.

If 20% of 4e players use the character builder regularly (and i'm willing to bet it's a higher %), you have more then enough data.


And no, i didn't mean to imply that not getting the CB means you didn't buy books.  But those who do buy the CB, are definatly paying, and not using a hacked offline CB.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

May sound a llittle harsh, but I think it is not the worst decision to take data from the CB, which is used by people who actually pay for what they use. In the end, those people will most probably end up paying for DnD next, not those who are willing to use a cracked version. Most of them won´t give wotc any money, no matter what they offer.

There may be a big number of people, who use the offline cb or share an account, who play whatever the DM offers them. They would never pay money. They just want to play the game. But their DM usually is responsible for getting the rulebooks etc. And if it is a DM who just uses robbed copys he deserves not to be asked about his opinion. He should take whatever he gets.
My issue is not about anecdotal evidence. My issue is that one known part of D&D is character rolled up at the table. I just find it odd or surprising that there is enough good data from an purchased Character Builder to base a judgment like that when you do have a survey that you are throwing at every playtester.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

They're keeping the survey behind a pay wall for 4e players, basically. They shoukd start charging everyone else to take the surveys then. 
First off, as Wrecan said, there are a lot fewer people taking their online polls than using the character builder, so that data is going to be less skewed.

But that said, I'm not sure how much paragon paths really translate into prestige classes. A paragon path sits on top of your existing class and gives you a few extra feats and powers. As such I've seen a lot of players treat it more like a mechanical decision (like picking a feat) than a roleplaying decision, especially since it's a mandatory choice at level 11. For them, the most "popular" prestige classes would be the ones with the most powerful mechanical benefits, which wouldn't necessarily translate to 5e anyway.

A prestige class REPLACES whatever class you were taking before, and means choosing to leave behind your (ideally equally powerful) "base" class, which IME usually entails more of a roleplaying decision. 
They're keeping the survey behind a pay wall for 4e players, basically. They shoukd start charging everyone else to take the surveys then. 


Surveys are not a privilege or a right of the players.  They're a tool for the developers.  I know people's sensibilities are bruised that their 4e preferences aren't being specifically considered because they'r enot paying for D&D Insider, but the point of the surveys is not to make everyone feel important.  It's to get specific data.  If they have the data from existing sources, there's no point -- other than assuaging sensitive egos -- to bother with another survey.
A pay wall this is not.

I just find it an odd discussion to base a niche aspect like paragon paths off of a online character builder where paragon play is not the most popular amount of play and how paragon paths were mostly mechanical choices a player is forced into based on their Ability and Build Choices chosen at level 1.

I mean my paragon paths were practically chosen for me by build choice at level one. Paragon paths were a weird thing. I was a starlock so I became a doomsayer. How many pit fighters were actual pit fighters?

But I don't have the data so I can only trust the team.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!


Seeing as how everyone I know has stuck with pre-Essentials and old copies of the offline character/monster builder or building characters by hand (GASP! THE HORROR!!!) I highly doubt that the online tools give them anything close to an accurate picture of what the majority of 4E fans actually want.



Not to mention determining things via what people pick only tells you what's the most powerful, not necessarily the concepts people like.

In 4E, you'd do crap like take pit fighter for your character, not because you ever went near a fighting pit or wanted to, but because it was a really good path.

Analyzing player choices is rather important when you want to figure out what to nerf and what to buff, but it's not so good for choosing things that people find cool, because a great deal of players will pick things strictly for power.

Honestly they really need to get a char generator for D&DN so they can collect this kind of data, it'll be much more helpful than the surveys.
Survey for 4e'rs?
There's no need. The online tools 
Tell us everything. 



Seeing as how everyone I know has stuck with pre-Essentials and old copies of the offline character/monster builder or building characters by hand (GASP! THE HORROR!!!) I highly doubt that the online tools give them anything close to an accurate picture of what the majority of 4E fans actually want.

No wonder DDN is getting things so wrong when it comes to appealing to 4E fans (or at least to the 4E fans that I know).



The offline was once online and they have those numbers too.  All continued use offline does is cause the numbers, not the percentages, to grow larger.

Seeing as how everyone I know has stuck with pre-Essentials and old copies of the offline character/monster builder or building characters by hand (GASP! THE HORROR!!!) I highly doubt that the online tools give them anything close to an accurate picture of what the majority of 4E fans actually want.



Not to mention determining things via what people pick only tells you what's the most powerful, not necessarily the concepts people like.


Please, people, do not make the mistake of believing that WotC is viewing the character builder information as superficially as you are.  There's an enormous amount of data, and they gave indications that they're not treating it simply.  They're not just summing up the selected PPs from all characters unthinkingly, they're actually analyzing the data.

Do not let your own failure of imagination for how you'd mine the character builder for information detract from what they are doing.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I guess you can parry with a bow.
I don't understand why they think that taking data from the Character Builder is sufficient when the reality is that a lot of players, mostly the more experieced ones, thought the Character Builder was terrible. I mean, it's a great tool for newbies, but beyond that, characters are so drastically different from one another and all need such different sorts of information on their character sheets that there's really no such thing as a one-size-fits-all character sheet creator. The Character Builder's better at attempting the impossible than most other attempts that I've seen, but it's still definitely lacking.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I guess you can parry with a bow.



My thoughts exactly (except for the "guess" part). And if that doesn't work, just hold the bow one-handed off turn and use your fists to parry. Your feests made of steel!

I don't understand why they think that taking data from the Character Builder is sufficient.

They didn't say it was sufficient.  They said they get a lot of data from it -- and from all their other sources of information -- such that they don't need to conduct 4e-specific surveys.
I don't understand why they think that taking data from the Character Builder is sufficient.

They didn't say it was sufficient.  They said they get a lot of data from it -- and from all their other sources of information -- such that they don't need to conduct 4e-specific surveys.



I think it's a terrible way to see data...

-because you are asking what choices you take, not what choices you like...
-because the online character builder try so hard to bury non-essentials classes behind the essentials classes...
-because for alot of classes, the character builder choose your paragon path and other options by default, and the only way for you to choose is to search for the option, and change your paragon path...
-because despite all efforts of wotc to DMCA offline builder, the users using it outnumber silverlight character builder by a landslide...hell, even when i had DDI, i used the offline builder because is 100x better...

 How does Advantage/Disadvantage interact with skill dice and martial damage dice? Is only the d20 rolled twice?

Advantage and disadvantage affect only the d20 roll of attacks, checks, and saving throws. Other effects (such as the rogue’s Skill Mastery) may allow you to roll your skill dice twice, but not advantage and disadvantage.



Ah, ok so the Rogue can get advantage twice on the same roll, gotcha...


If a fighter focuses on ranged weapons, what use is Parry? What could be substituted for it?

By focusing on ranged weapons, the fighter has chosen to remain away from danger—thus accomplishing the goal of parry, which is to improve survivability for the class. Being at range is a big advantage, especially if you have other characters that are getting up in melee. While it’s true that the fighter is sacrificing some damage by choosing, say, a longbow over a greataxe, the fighter is still doing comparable damage to the fighter with a long sword, who may have a slightly higher AC but is still exposed to more danger than the archer fighter. Right now, we have no plans to swap out parry for ranged fighters, but we’ll be watching the feedback closely for any indication that we might need to reconsider that.



In other words "oops, we didn't see that...". Also using a great axe means you get hit less than the +1 AC shield Fighter and possibly the archer Fighter who is still being pelted with ranged attacks because you kill the enemies almost twice as fast over the course of 5 rounds. Again this is another place that they don't seem to understand the math behind the game.


Are you going to do a survey of the most popular Paragon Paths from 4th Edition, like you did for Prestige Classes?

Actually, we don’t need to. Thanks to the online character builder, we have very concrete data on which paragon paths are most frequently chosen when building characters. We can even see which paragon paths see the most play (by looking at the frequency of character updates) and which ones players choose for one-time character building, giving us an idea of paragon paths that players choose largely for academic reasons or one-shots.



Actually, you do need to. Thanks to the online character builder, you are only getting data from those people that used it rather than the vast majority of people that used other things like Fantasy Grounds, Hero Labs, or pen and paper. Not to mention those people that build characters because they find that aspect of the game fun, but never play those characters, or those that use it to see what options are available to plan out their characters, but later decide against it. I mean it would be one thing if they had a checkbox that said "I actually use this character" or "this is a concept character or experimentation" then they could get real data from the CB, but they don't so they won't. Its like those surveys you do for free in game money on MMO's, people do those all the time and lie so they get into the survey so they can get the free game money. If major companies are basing their decisions on that data, guess what? They are going to fail...Smile

"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Don't forget the limit of 20 characters on the online CB as well...why that never changed is baffling.

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To claim that a point-and-click survey of the WotC forum-posting denizens will better represent D&D usage than data from a tool which is actually used to play the gamei is ludicrous. By sample size alone. Obviously any poll is gonna be imperfect (Nate Silver says so!), but you're surely better off observing actual RPG behavior than asking people to describe their own RPG behavior. To boot, even if there were a systemic bias in the paragon-path preferences of the paying and non-paying groups of 4.0 devotees, whose opinion should WotC care about?



The larger percentage of people that buy the books alone over the smaller percentage of people that buy the books and use DDi or just use DDi. I mean really, what's that saying "There are no stupid questions, only...."
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
@mellored Since doesn't make sense. There are plenty of purchasable 4e content that has nothing to do with the Char Builder. All the 4e games I've been involved that ever got to the paragon path in were leveled naturally at the table by hand. Its like finding the most popular classes in 3.0 by looking at Neverwinter Nights players.


And I've run a campaign from level 1 to 30 and none of my players would ever consider using anything but the character builder.  Sheesh.  Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.  Wizards has been studying and using the Character Builder since before the playtest to gauge popularity and have been reconciling the data with other data they were getting about playstyles from Encounters and other sources.

We can just decide that they're wrong arbitrarily based on anecdotes.  But down that path lies madness.  There's no end to that reasoning.



The problem is that the percentage of people that use DDi is a tiny percent of the people that play 4E. They claimed that 80 million people play 4E or something like that at one time. We know from the DDi forum group that a very small percentage of that are actually monthly subscribers.

It would be the same as using one of these forum polls to dictate what direction to take 5E in...Smile
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
The problem is that the percentage of people that use DDi is a tiny percent of the people that play 4E.


All surveys are percentages.

They claimed that 80 million people play 4E or something like that at one time.


No, they didn't.  Nobody ever claimed that a population the size of California, Texas and New York combined was playing 4e.  
As long as they don't collect data from these boards, it is a good thing.