Hurricane Strike... is it mad?

nexers,

I'm going over Maneuvers and came across Hurricane Strike.   Who the heck is going to get this crazy looking thing?   I kinda balked at a hit knocking an opponent back 10 feet.   Then it got stranger with the increments increasing to 30 and then 60 feet!   I've never seen such a thing in a game.

I can't help think that anything that did get knocked back that far would be dead from the impact of the blow.   How am I going to explain to my players that that knocking a monster back 60 feet didn't kill it?   They might walk out of the room!

Maybe this thing should be toned down a little?

Opinions...
nexers,

I'm going over Maneuvers and came across Hurricane Strike.   Who the heck is going to get this crazy looking thing?   I kinda balked at a hit knocking an opponent back 10 feet.   Then it got stranger with the increments increasing to 30 and then 60 feet!   I've never seen such a thing in a game.

I can't help think that anything that did get knocked back that far would be dead from the impact of the blow.   How am I going to explain to my players that that knocking a monster back 60 feet didn't kill it?   They might walk out of the room!

Maybe this thing should be toned down a little?

Opinions...



I dunno, high level PCs and monsters can suvive 500 ft drops of cliffs, so I don't find it all that problematic, given the game was never realistic to start with.
Tell them its "Kungfu"

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Maybe wuxia fighters need to be in a class module.  Its not for everyone.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Lets see monk martial artist dudes in movies.. yeh lets make it all realistic and dry... that will attract tons of fans of the archetype. 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I also think it is pretty awesome and not a problem.  Assuming it isn't changed, you have an easy solution: just don't let it push that far.  You surely know what your players like (you suggest that they might object to such a push), so just change it to something they will like.
I just got done playing The Witcher and he has this Aard sign in the game.   I think its some kind of air push.   But that never really pushed them 60 feet away.   It always seemed like 5 or a little more.   Cool ability.
Lets see monk martial artist dudes in movies.. yeh lets make it all realistic and dry... that will attract tons of fans of the archetype. 



I don't know man, it certainly isn't attacting me too much.   I'd think alot of people will have a what da f*** moment when they read it.

People are right, such things need to be house ruled when it doesn't fit the group.   If a group needs something to be silly as all heck then they can do it!

Lets see monk martial artist dudes in movies.. yeh lets make it all realistic and dry... that will attract tons of fans of the archetype. 



I don't know man, it certainly isn't attacting me too much.    
 



So you dont watch any fantasy martial arts movies... and are stuck with old kungfu reruns.... 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

60 ft. for a punch?   I've never seen that in a movie in my life.
60 ft. for a punch?   I've never seen that in a movie in my life.


is it a punch why did you decide that?...

If you spent three dice, you can magically push... etc.
 

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

They call it magic.. I think the word KI or Chi would be mentioned usually.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Yeah hurricane strike is airbending type stuff



Literally after the second die is added it becomes a magical effect.  
I think I got it from "Strike" in the title.   I guess that could be a head butt as well or a finger poke.   Maybe a slap with a large belly.   Hurrican Strike just made me think of a fist...
60 ft. for a punch?   I've never seen that in a movie in my life.



dude whatch avatar: the last airbender realize the effect of the attack...
I think I got it from "Strike" in the title.   I guess that could be a head butt as well or a finger poke.   Maybe a slap with a large belly.   Hurrican Strike just made me think of a fist...



What about "magically push"... was confusing?
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

dude, you just called me a whiner in another thread.   I'm through with ya.
titles are earned...  not made 

If a player wants mundane theres one of thoes under the fighter list. 

Shove Away

  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

why the prickish behavior here?   I didn't do a damn thing to you and you know it.   Its real tough to go backstabbing other members in another thread.

the funny thing is I don't see where in this thread things had got to the point that you'd start calling me names.   What the heck is up with this?

Complaints about and demanding the game to be realistic have apparently become a pet peave.... they were one of the not so fun things dealt with in edition wars ... now I am hearing complaining that fantasy is unbelievable even when it specifically mentions magic  ummmmm
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

why the prickish behavior here?   I didn't do a damn thing to you and you know it.   Its real tough to go backstabbing other members in another thread.

the funny thing is I don't see where in this thread things had got to the point that you'd start calling me names.   What the heck is up with this?





dude are you new here...this is kinda what we do.  You gotta realize at some point your not going to agree with everyone all the time.  I have maintained two threads at the same time one where I ambitter rivals with someone and one where we are both on the same side of the debate.  I disagree with garth all the time...on this one we agree but I disagree with him all the time.  This thread is about this thread the other thread is about that thread...don't cross the threads man.  

Now getting back to it...Hurricane strike is in fact a magical maneuver.  I think it is awesome. 
 I disagree with garth all the time...on this one we agree but I disagree with him all the time.  This thread is about this thread the other thread is about that thread...don't cross the threads man.   


Probably my fault for crossing threads... but when I think awesome is being suppressed, I sometimes gyre and gimble in the wabe.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

oh I get it, it's some weird sense of humour.   It was a little confusing when the name calling stepped in since I didn't think we were have that passionate of an argument.

strange days.
oh I get it, it's some weird sense of humour.   It was a little confusing when the name calling stepped in since I didn't think we were have that passionate of an argument.

strange days.



Hey sorry not a big stress ... and certainly not meant that severely... its umm game components being mulled over eh.

I have folk on my friends list who I agree with maybe 1 in 100 posts, purely because I like there sense of humor. 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

 I disagree with garth all the time...on this one we agree but I disagree with him all the time.  This thread is about this thread the other thread is about that thread...don't cross the threads man.   


Probably my fault for crossing threads... but when I think awesome is being suppressed, I sometimes gyre and gimble in the wabe.



I have to apologise for not getting the humour.   I was a little shocked to go read your comments in the other thread and just not getting the fun.  The fun!

maybe someday you can use your 60 foot power thing and I can use my 5 ft force field in a dnd game...
Beware the Garthanos, cocoasword,

The brain that thinks,

The fingers that type,

Beware SleepsinTraffic

and shun

The frumious Wrecan.

Cool          
where's the ignore function!?!?!?!?   Aaaaaghhhhgghhh!

Hates bad poetry he does.. we had a thread that was entirely poetry.... my precious, we did.

It was a blast. 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Note the Hurricane strike stays fairly mundane where you could visualize it as inducing the enemy to stagger back a few paces... if you only put one die into that effect.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Oh, on topic post, given what I've seen some MMA and Muay Thai fighters do with the front kick variation they call a teep, I think its actually overcosted.

Oh, on topic post, given what I've seen some MMA and Muay Thai fighters do with the front kick variation they call a teep, I think its actually overcosted.




Reality is unrealistic... more often than not.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

nexers,

I'm going over Maneuvers and came across Hurricane Strike.   Who the heck is going to get this crazy looking thing?   I kinda balked at a hit knocking an opponent back 10 feet.   Then it got stranger with the increments increasing to 30 and then 60 feet!   I've never seen such a thing in a game.

I can't help think that anything that did get knocked back that far would be dead from the impact of the blow.   How am I going to explain to my players that that knocking a monster back 60 feet didn't kill it?   They might walk out of the room!

Maybe this thing should be toned down a little?

Opinions...



Well, it is high fantasy, afterall.  It's no more offensive than, say, the Telekinesis spell.

The concept of maneuvers which become .... magical when pushed to extreme I find utterly intriguing.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Hurricane strike embodies just about everything that is awesome about martial dice. It's the metamagic for our non caster folk and I like that things are gloriously over the top.


I do think it's likely to be nerfed a bit in future packets, but not by much. The idea is you knock them away such that they can't hustle back, so it's got to be 60' or most races will be able to reengage in the same round.

I'll tell you what makes more or less every single maneuver mad is a combination of not getting very many and the fact that the dice refresh every turn.


I mean, a maneuver like hurricane strike is flipping awesome and works fine just as it is, but in an environment where you have that or like 3 other choices and turning it to the highest setting costs you nothing, it gets a bit samey. The player doesn't have a lot of alternatives which means even if they didn't want to keep using it there's not a lot else they can do, and since there's no consequence for cranking it up, there's no real reason to have it work on a gradient like it is except as a way to make it scale with level. Maybe that was their idea but the far more compelling thing about maneuvers like hurricane strike is the decision point: do I burn all my resources now and blow 'em all away or will I need that later?


It's a shame they've moved away from dice as an encounter resource and removed that decision point in the process.

*shrug* I can knock someone back 10-15 feet. 

It all boils down to what kind of campaign you are running, really.

To one who is focused in ortiental/martial arts such an ability is coherent.
If you're running a classic occidental-medieval fantasy campaign then maybe you should just leave the Monk class out of it entirely, cause the entire class is really kinda "shaolin-based" (fantasy/hong kong movie version).
60 ft. for a punch?   I've never seen that in a movie in my life.



You never watch Naruto?


I'll tell you what makes more or less every single maneuver mad is a combination of not getting very many and the fact that the dice refresh every turn.



 if it was just your turn atleast there would be some decisions like do I use them for this protect/parry or that strike atleast.
  

It's a shame they've moved away from dice as an encounter resource and removed that decision point in the process.


 
I am thinking we will see a module to make all classes have primarily encounter based resources, I think it can be done in very interesting ways. 

I am somewhat afraid doing that in a module might not be that practical... 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

nexers,

I'm going over Maneuvers and came across Hurricane Strike.   Who the heck is going to get this crazy looking thing?   I kinda balked at a hit knocking an opponent back 10 feet.   Then it got stranger with the increments increasing to 30 and then 60 feet!   I've never seen such a thing in a game.

I can't help think that anything that did get knocked back that far would be dead from the impact of the blow.   How am I going to explain to my players that that knocking a monster back 60 feet didn't kill it?   They might walk out of the room!

Maybe this thing should be toned down a little?

Opinions...


Realistically, thirty feet or so is completely possible for a good fighter. The initial launch comes from applying pressure on a limb in such a way that the target instinctively jumps rather than suffer a broken arm. Combine that jump with the fighter's own strength and leverage, and the target gets a lot of initial velocity. In combat, most fighters prefer to direct that energy into the nearest hard surface for maximum pwnage. If the fighter is nice enough to throw the target instead, the target will stumble backward until they can stop themselves, which could take up to thirty feet on a great throw. All of the energy of the throw went into distance, so the target ends up mostly unhurt.

A sixty foot throw happens because Rule of Cool.
In the description of Hurricane Strike, it mentions a Strength check by the defender. What's the DC of the check, & how is it determined?  Is the attacker's attack roll? Is it a contest between the attacker's strength and the defender's strength?

Thanks!
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