Need some help choosing a striker and optimizing him

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Hey all,

Like the title says I need some help. My current party is at lvl 3 and consits of a warden, ilussionist, warlord, shaman and me as a blackguard. The thing is im not really enjoying my blackguard and as the only striker I feel like im not performing as well as i should.

I asked the DM if i could change classes and he doesnt mind, so i was wondering if I could get some recomendations and example builds of what type of character would be good to play in these circumstances.

Thanks and sorry for any formating or spelling errors im currently at work so im writing this up from my phone.

EDIT: Fixed Formating 
I'd think rogue or thief.  Get SA (should be trivial especially with that party) and stab away.  The warlord and possibly even shaman can then make you stab more.

A dagger as your weapon (or shuriken in the off hand) could even have the warlord and shaman using you to stab things all over the battlefield if they can otherwise ensure you've got the ranged CA, which the illusionist should be pretty good at helping out with.


Edit - Yah a Thief with Hidden Sniper feat and what ever is your favoritest ranged attack.  At the start of a fight, grab partial concealment (stand behind anything pretty much) and just shoot your way to victory.  Both the warlord and shaman should be able to use your damage through granted attacks.  
The obvious answer is a Ranger. A good place to start is linked below.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Thanks for the quick replies.

Il have to have another read of those guides agian also what does SA stand for?
Sneak Attack. 

Yeah, go with one of those guys Erachima said.  The warlord and shaman will make it sing.

Cry Havoc!  And let slip the hogs of war!

SA= Sneak Attack.

Ranger may fit that party better. Warlord and Shaman can probably hand out basic attacks, most of which will be Melee Basic Attacks from the Warlord. Thief as a charger could be good also and cover a good set of skills with thievery and stealth to combine with perception to make you the ideal scout/trap finder.
The top result on a google search is Sexaholics Anonymous, and I'm kinda surprised you didn't say Server/Systems Analyst/Administrator.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
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I have a Rogue who wants to optimize his Salvation Army... any suggestions? I was thinking about picking up a Santa Claus costume and taking Weapon Prof: Handbell, but I'm not sure where to go after that.
Handbell is a mace, so you're going to need to be a dwarf or, probably, a dead dwarf, so you can use your SA in the context of your SA optimization.  As a bonus, a dwarven beard should go perfectly with the Santa costume, but you could always refluff another race anyway.
What are the Pro's and Con's of Thief and Rogue?
Iv been reading the guides for the classes suggested, but i dont think i could play one of those characters in the long run the all seem to be very dependant on only doing one thing and being very good at i.e Twin Strike spam and Charging for the Thief.

I was wondering is it possible to build an Avenger to have similar damage output? As the Avenger seems to have caught my eye and has a more intresting class mechnaic in my opinion. But from what i have been reading from the searches I have done most consider Avenger at the bottom of the striker totem pole, is that true?
It's false. The Thief and Slayer are at the bottom of the Striker pole (among the playable strikers anyway, along with the Monk). The Avenger belongs to the same solid mid-tier as the Rogue and Barbarian. It can blast someone but good, and can also play a decent long game.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Uh... if you find efficiently killing things boring, striker probably isn't the role for you.

As for the Avenger, yes, but it takes a lot of work. I have a build for it here, if you're interested in the long term.



It's just I have never been a fan of doing the same thing over and over, one of the reasons I never played a 2 button spam Arcane Mage in Wow.

Thanks for the link its an intresting read, i might try this build out, just wish i knew how long our campiagn is going to go.
The issue is, unless you find a class which has glorious standard action striker encounter powers at every level (and that means the Ranger or a very high level Barbarian) you will be using at-wills a lot with basically every striker in the game, because the way you do the most damage is to cram as much action into as few actions as possible and make situational bonuses as reliable as possible. Strong at-wills is central to the implementation of both those ideas.

Of course, since you're an optimized striker, combat ends faster, which means the problem is self-solving: you're only twin-striking once because you only need it to finish off the last guy or whatever.



Good Point well out of the others the Ranger looked the most intresting, I'll go have another look and muck around creating some builds.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />It's just I have never been a fan of doing the same thing over and over, one of the reasons I never played a 2 button spam Arcane Mage in Wow.


MRW People think top DPR on a Mage was from 2 powers
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
You don't always have to fall into the trap of spamming a single "attack method". While 4e favors specialization it doesn't always have to mean one trick pony. Most E-classes are going to fall into that category but your standard AEUD classe have some diversity to build upon. Look for some different and fun ways to meet the striker benchmarks that will fit the group you will be in. The ranger for instance, and almost all classes at higher levels, will have enough power combos to last through about 2-3 turns of combat and by the time you would be down to at-wills should be the boring as hell mop up rounds.
You can make an interesting ranger.  I think the str/wis builds have a bit more potential for that and the people I have seen play them tend to have enough different things to do that they don't get bored over time, though with any hig DPR striker you will be using your at wills a lot.

Of all the good strikers the one that I found the most interesting over the long run is the barbarian.  I have played that and an avenger over multiple levels in heroic and with the avenger it I was doing nothing but overwhelming strike by the middle of round 2 most encounters and getting the oath applied was never a challenge.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Has some good striker builds, though some of them may not be up to any new material.

I've played community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

to low paragon and it was a lot of fun, you get to work solo and have great survivability.
Uh... if you find efficiently killing things boring, striker probably isn't the role for you.

As for the Avenger, yes, but it takes a lot of work. I have a build for it here, if you're interested in the long term.



It's just I have never been a fan of doing the same thing over and over, one of the reasons I never played a 2 button spam Arcane Mage in Wow.

Thanks for the link its an intresting read, i might try this build out, just wish i knew how long our campiagn is going to go.

Out of curiosity, and since it might help people to direct you to a class/build with the kind of complexity you want, what did you play in WoW?  AffLock?  Kitty?  BM? Tongue Out

The Thief and Slayer are at the bottom of the Striker pole (among the playable strikers anyway, along with the Monk).

Interesting "playable striker" boundary. There are a few classes and hybrids below that benchmark I'd play, but I probably do have lower standards.

How long does your campain will last?

Do your group plan to play it until lv30?

Ranger is fine in heroic and then kick every class ass ,start from early paragon.
But like you said, they're dull to play (at least for me)

Rogue is fine until mid paragon but after that, their damage will lack behide (they had to play like strike/controller hybrid from that point).
But you're never dull for playing rogue, both in and out of combat (my favorite striker for fun factor)

Barbarian is fine throughout their carrer and fun to play in combat. But outside of combat, they don't do much. 

For other strikers, I didn't play them yet so I don't know much.

You can make an interesting ranger.  I think the str/wis builds have a bit more potential for that and the people I have seen play them tend to have enough different things to do that they don't get bored over time, though with any hig DPR striker you will be using your at wills a lot.

Of all the good strikers the one that I found the most interesting over the long run is the barbarian.  I have played that and an avenger over multiple levels in heroic and with the avenger it I was doing nothing but overwhelming strike by the middle of round 2 most encounters and getting the oath applied was never a challenge.



Thanks Il check out the Barb guide.


community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Has some good striker builds, though some of them may not be up to any new material.

I've played community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

to low paragon and it was a lot of fun, you get to work solo and have great survivability.



Nice link, that build looks intresting, will have to ask my DM if he would alow BLC instead of HL.

Uh... if you find efficiently killing things boring, striker probably isn't the role for you.

As for the Avenger, yes, but it takes a lot of work. I have a build for it here, if you're interested in the long term.



It's just I have never been a fan of doing the same thing over and over, one of the reasons I never played a 2 button spam Arcane Mage in Wow.

Thanks for the link its an intresting read, i might try this build out, just wish i knew how long our campiagn is going to go.

Out of curiosity, and since it might help people to direct you to a class/build with the kind of complexity you want, what did you play in WoW?  AffLock?  Kitty?  BM?



I actually played Ret Pally, was lots of fun I think my raid group managed to get to 3 or 4 heroic bosses down in the last raid for cata, then me and my raid leader quit. Wow was simply to time cosuming. This was one of the reason I chose Blackguard to play originally, Im a fan of wearing heavy armor and swing a 2h (prefrably a sword) and doing lots of damage.


How long does your campain will last?

Do your group plan to play it until lv30?

Ranger is fine in heroic and then kick every class ass ,start from early paragon.
But like you said, they're dull to play (at least for me)

Rogue is fine until mid paragon but after that, their damage will lack behide (they had to play like strike/controller hybrid from that point).
But you're never dull for playing rogue, both in and out of combat (my favorite striker for fun factor)

Barbarian is fine throughout their carrer and fun to play in combat. But outside of combat, they don't do much. 

For other strikers, I didn't play them yet so I don't know much.



Thats the thing im not sure how long my campaign is going to last, so im simply looking for things for the long hawl.
You may be looking for a Thaneborn Barbarian. They have some pseudo-leadery type abilities and you can put them in heavier armor leaving stat distribution available.

If the rest of the group isn't really optimized you have more room to play with. With Genasi, for example, you get an INT boost and with Elemental Initiate as a Theme and a multiclass you can garner a couple more skills while still garnering an off-turn attack. You may not be awesome at the skills, but good enough to use them outside of combat.

I actually played Ret Pally, was lots of fun I think my raid group managed to get to 3 or 4 heroic bosses down in the last raid for cata, then me and my raid leader quit. Wow was simply to time cosuming. This was one of the reason I chose Blackguard to play originally, Im a fan of wearing heavy armor and swing a 2h (prefrably a sword) and doing lots of damage.

Sounds like a Hybrid Barbarian|Cleric/Fighter may be right up your alley. Heavy armor, big weapon (sorry, gouge is best, refluff as sword if you must, and blame the system), small amount of leading, lots of damage.
As the Avenger seems to have caught my eye and has a more intresting class mechnaic in my opinion. But from what i have been reading from the searches I have done most consider Avenger at the bottom of the striker totem pole, is that true?

IMHO, No, not in the least.

Avengers have the best striker feature of anyone, and (IMO) acceptable encounter powers.   They're a little shy of multi-attacks like Rangers and Barbarians get, but the striker feature is pretty dang awesome.  So if you want Campaign-crushing awesomeness, an Avenger is usually involved somewhere, because the striker feature is Just That Awesome.  Twinked out avengers are as strong as anything.

"Builder Beige" avengers struggle substantially to get to 1/2 KPR (kill a standard monster every two turns) and reliably nuking a standard with a daily nova is also a challenge.

They are tricky to build because the list of acceptable encounter powers is kinda small.  And they do NOT have an acceptable list of daily powers.  And there is basically one great PP for them (and it's actually a PP designed for Invokers and Clerics.  So it's a bit of a waste to use on an Avenger) and a few decent options (usually also for other classes)... and a lot of cruft you should never take.

So it's a cheese fest of overkill, or struggling to make par... and very little in the middle.

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Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima