Dimir Mill Post Gatecrash (SPOILERS)

43 posts / 0 new
Last post
So with gatecrash around the corner, I really want to put together a Dimir mill deck as an alternative to running RDW all the time. I'm not super experienced in U/B or mill so I'd really like the communities suggestions on how to do this. What little experience I have with mill seems to show it takes several turns to get going and needs help surviving the early game. This is what I have so far. Yes, it's several cards over 60. No, I don't intend to keep it that way, I'd just like suggestions on what you guys would cut or add to it, using current GC spoilers and whats available in standard.


[Creatures]: 12


[Instant/Sorcery]: 26
[deck] 4 Dissipate
4 Thought Scour
3 Dimir Charm
4 Unsummon
3 Increasing Confusion
4 Mindsculpt
4 Mindgrind [/deck]

[Artifacts] 3
[deck] 3 Sands of Delirium [/deck]


[LAND] 25
[deck] 4 Drowned Catacomb
11 Island
6 Swamp
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Nephalia Drownyard[/deck]

[Planeswalkers] 3
[deck]3 Jace, Memory Adept[/deck]

Total: 69 (9 over)


So I need to trim 9 cards, and I really don't even know if I'm heading in the right direction. I've also considered Cyclonic Rift and Gridlock in the deck to stall out a bit and possibly Jace's Phantasm. Another glaring issue I'm sure will be pointed out is the lack of Watery Graves. I'll acquire them when I can, but I'm not including them right now because my initial build won't have them. They will end up being included when I get some.

Any advice on directions to take this would be appreciated.

Also possible BUG version

[Creature] 10
[deck]4 Duskmantle Mage
4 Augur of Bolas
2 Talrand Sky Summoner [/deck]

[Instant/Sorcery]
[deck]4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Fog
4 Moonmist
3 Increasing Confusion
4 Mind sculpt
4 Mind Grind [/deck]

[Planeswalkers]
[deck] 3 Jace, Memory Adept [/deck]

[Land] 24
[deck] 4 Breeding Pool
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Forest
9 Island
4 Swamp [/deck]
Mill is a worthless strategy and you're going to lose the majority of your games. The only good mill card you have in thisdeck is Jace, Memory Adept and it's only good because it's a 3-4 turn clock. Drownyard is only god in Bant because all of the other cards in the deck allow you to survive that long. What you should do is make UB control and then have a copy or two of Jace in the deck or board as a win condition. Wasting cards for crappy mill spells is like playing a burn spell that deals one damage. 
Mill is a worthless strategy and you're going to lose the majority of your games. The only good mill card you have in thisdeck is Jace, Memory Adept and it's only good because it's a 3-4 turn clock. Drownyard is only god in Bant because all of the other cards in the deck allow you to survive that long. What you should do is make UB control and then have a copy or two of Jace in the deck or board as a win condition. Wasting cards for crappy mill spells is like playing a burn spell that deals one damage. 


Nah, no thanks.
This deck is degenerately overpowered.  You can play it, sure, but don't expect you friends to want to play magic with you ever again.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

Show
139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
I'm not sure why it's so difficult to get actual advice instead of trolling on these boards.
If you keep saying that you won't listen to our advice, don't expect anyone to give you any more.  Shadowchu has a point, though.  Milling isn't the most reliable win tactic.  I think that in order to win with a mill deck, you need 2 things:

1:  A repeatable way to mill the opponent (like Jace, Memory Adept, Sands of Delirium, and Nephalia Drownyard)

2:  Enough control to last long enough to mill them to death

You're fine on condition 1, but this deck could use more control.  You're running black, so you have access to cards like Ultimate Price and Tragic Slip.  Well, maybe not Tragic Slip.....In a deck like this, your kill power is limited.  But you see my point, right?
If you keep saying that you won't listen to our advice, don't expect anyone to give you any more.  Shadowchu has a point, though.  Milling isn't the most reliable win tactic.  I think that in order to win with a mill deck, you need 2 things:

I'm inclined to agree with the OP. To respond with "Mill is a worthless strategy...you should play UB control" is not advice or, if it is, it's borderline rude. To say something like "Milling isn't the most reliable tactic, but if you want to try it, you need this..." is much better.

There was a guy who played a mill deck at my FNM a couple of weeks ago. I never faced him and I don't know how he did overall, but listening to the background chatter I think he won at least some games.

Many of us play FNM not with the intent to place no. 1, but rather we're happy to come out 3-1, 3-2, or maybe even 2-2. We value the originality of our deck designs and the pride in having cooked up something ourselves more than we value the final outcome. When someone posts a deck here, the response should, in my opinion, be as constructive as possible. In most cases this means not telling someone how bad the design is, but giving advice on making it as good as it can be within the constraints of the deck design.

Every time someone has told me my deck won't work, I've come out with a winning record. Every single time. The final feedback I received on last week's deck was "I think you've gone a long way in the wrong direction." That was the deck I won my first FNM with.

If you keep saying that you won't listen to our advice, don't expect anyone to give you any more.  Shadowchu has a point, though.  Milling isn't the most reliable win tactic.  I think that in order to win with a mill deck, you need 2 things:

1:  A repeatable way to mill the opponent (like Jace, Memory Adept, Sands of Delirium, and Nephalia Drownyard)

2:  Enough control to last long enough to mill them to death

You're fine on condition 1, but this deck could use more control.  You're running black, so you have access to cards like Ultimate Price and Tragic Slip.  Well, maybe not Tragic Slip.....In a deck like this, your kill power is limited.  But you see my point, right?


Telling me to play a different deck entirely is not advice, or atleast it's not the advice I asked for when I made the thread.

As for lack of control, I agree. I've tried mainly using blue control instead of black, but I could try out ultimate price.
Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it. If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear. 

Winning an FNM doesn't make your deck good. You might like your snowflake and feel proud about it but that doesn't make it a tournament level deck. I've won FNMs with garbage before too because 4 rounds is high variance and you can win with trash. FNM for the most part have easier people to play against and more people who are playing on budget.  

On top of all of this the fundamentals of this deck is flawed. To acheive a condition in which mill is an acceptable win condition you need to either control the board or have some kind of lock. This deck does none of that. Aggro decks are going to laugh as you play your creatures that won't save you or your spells that do nothing against them.  Mill is a bad strategy because you're saying instead of playing against 20 life I'm going to play against 40 life and realistically not have any way to interact with their 20 life. These mill cards are fine for casual but not in a tournament setting. This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 
Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it. If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear. 

Winning an FNM doesn't make your deck good. You might like your snowflake and feel proud about it but that doesn't make it a tournament level deck. I've won FNMs with garbage before too because 4 rounds is high variance and you can win with trash. FNM for the most part have easier people to play against and more people who are playing on budget.  

On top of all of this the fundamentals of this deck is flawed. To acheive a condition in which mill is an acceptable win condition you need to either control the board or have some kind of lock. This deck does none of that. Aggro decks are going to laugh as you play your creatures that won't save you or your spells that do nothing against them.  Mill is a bad strategy because you're saying instead of playing against 20 life I'm going to play against 40 life and realistically not have any way to interact with their 20 life. These mill cards are fine for casual but not in a tournament setting. This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 



I'm not planning to go on a protour so I'm not really seeing your point. You just seem to want to post to post.
Mill is a worthless strategy and you're going to lose the majority of your games.


This is 100% true, if you play to win. If - like me - you just want to play a deck you like as best as you can, do play mill. Know that you will stand no chance against most of the tier 1 decks though.

The only good mill card you have in thisdeck is Jace, Memory Adept and it's only good because it's a 3-4 turn clock. Drownyard is only god in Bant because all of the other cards in the deck allow you to survive that long. What you should do is make UB control and then have a copy or two of Jace in the deck or board as a win condition. Wasting cards for crappy mill spells is like playing a burn spell that deals one damage. 


Also true. Standard doesn't have the tools to go full on mill, because full on mill is basically a burn deck that targets the library. So cut all the "small" mill cards and just play UB control that wins via milling, it's not a bad deck.

IMAGE(http://i1.minus.com/jbcBXM4z66fMtK.jpg)

192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it. If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear. 

Winning an FNM doesn't make your deck good. You might like your snowflake and feel proud about it but that doesn't make it a tournament level deck. I've won FNMs with garbage before too because 4 rounds is high variance and you can win with trash. FNM for the most part have easier people to play against and more people who are playing on budget.  

On top of all of this the fundamentals of this deck is flawed. To acheive a condition in which mill is an acceptable win condition you need to either control the board or have some kind of lock. This deck does none of that. Aggro decks are going to laugh as you play your creatures that won't save you or your spells that do nothing against them.  Mill is a bad strategy because you're saying instead of playing against 20 life I'm going to play against 40 life and realistically not have any way to interact with their 20 life. These mill cards are fine for casual but not in a tournament setting. This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 



I'm not planning to go on a protour so I'm not really seeing your point. You just seem to want to post to post.


Doesn't mean you can't play good decks, right? 

Your concept is flawed but with tweaking you could have a real deck. How is this not relevant? 

Do you want to be stuck as a bad Magic player or get better? If you're content with being terrible then just say so and not take any constructive advice on how to build better decks.  
Maybe 1 less Sands of Delirium, multiples are redundant. Dimir Charm doesn't seem that great here. It doesn't mill well and its other effects are pretty mediocre. Lazav seems like another possible cut. It's a hexproof version of the best creature you mill. You don't want that creature for attacking (you're not winning by reducing your opponent to 0 unless you guildmage them to death or they don't block consuming abberation). It isn't that good defensively either. I think something like Talrand, Sky Summoner might fit that spot better. I don't see decks keeping in much (if any) removal against a mill deck where the creatures are Augur of Bolas, and Duskmantle Guildmage[/c]. Talrand would have a decent chance of staying alive for multiple turns and make you multiple blockers. It's a spell heavy deck with a lot of low cost instant/sorceries. Talrand seems like it could fit well to me. 

You might want some ramp also. If you're going to be able to mill your opponent, it's probably because of a big increasing confusion,jace,sands of delirium, or Mind grind. All of those are pretty mana intensive.

"This list much made Niche barf a lil' in his mouth, so I can be proud of that." -rstnme

Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it. If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear. 

Winning an FNM doesn't make your deck good. You might like your snowflake and feel proud about it but that doesn't make it a tournament level deck. I've won FNMs with garbage before too because 4 rounds is high variance and you can win with trash. FNM for the most part have easier people to play against and more people who are playing on budget.  

On top of all of this the fundamentals of this deck is flawed. To acheive a condition in which mill is an acceptable win condition you need to either control the board or have some kind of lock. This deck does none of that. Aggro decks are going to laugh as you play your creatures that won't save you or your spells that do nothing against them.  Mill is a bad strategy because you're saying instead of playing against 20 life I'm going to play against 40 life and realistically not have any way to interact with their 20 life. These mill cards are fine for casual but not in a tournament setting. This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 



I'm not planning to go on a protour so I'm not really seeing your point. You just seem to want to post to post.


Doesn't mean you can't play good decks, right? 

Your concept is flawed but with tweaking you could have a real deck. How is this not relevant? 

Do you want to be stuck as a bad Magic player or get better? If you're content with being terrible then just say so and not take any constructive advice on how to build better decks.  


But I originally asked for advice in my OP and you never gave any until your third or so post when you were prompted to. You started by just going off on a tangent about how mill is bad, never really giving any advice.
Maybe 1 less Sands of Delirium, multiples are redundant. Dimir Charm doesn't seem that great here. It doesn't mill well and its other effects are pretty mediocre. Lazav seems like another possible cut. It's a hexproof version of the best creature you mill. You don't want that creature for attacking (you're not winning by reducing your opponent to 0 unless you guildmage them to death or they don't block consuming abberation). It isn't that good defensively either. I think something like Talrand, Sky Summoner might fit that spot better. I don't see decks keeping in much (if any) removal against a mill deck where the creatures are Augur of Bolas, and Duskmantle Guildmage[/c]. Talrand would have a decent chance of staying alive for multiple turns and make you multiple blockers. It's a spell heavy deck with a lot of low cost instant/sorceries. Talrand seems like it could fit well to me. 

You might want some ramp also. If you're going to be able to mill your opponent, it's probably because of a big increasing confusion,jace,sands of delirium, or Mind grind. All of those are pretty mana intensive.


I like the Talrand idea. As for ramp...yeah, I agree. It was a big concern to me when I was putting the deck together. So much of it is mana intensive. I avoided putting in green just because I didn't want to fork over the massive cost for G/B or U/G duals. I'll see what I can do, though.
Swap out some one off cards that do a small amount of mill for things like [C] Codex shredder [/C] Or [C] Curse of the bloody tome[/C] These give you turn by turn mill that unless offed quickly give a much higher payout than the one off's. Though if you can hold off till late game [C] Psychic spiral[/C] can be fatal (Assuming you can get 4 of each of the turn by turns your netting 12 cards per round without the repeated cost of Drownyard Though once set up you can still use it to make it hurt that much more.) This gives you your win con.

Besides that This frees up your deck to be a bit more defencive and being defencive keeps you alive long enough to actually do some damage to the deck. UB doesn't have the best bodies so I'd go the control route layered on top of the core mill. Your main focus will be keeping damage creatures off your back with protecting your enchants and artifacts coming next. Obviously there are things like [C]Cancel[/C] [C]Negate[/C] and the likes but dont forget the power of low level debuff spells that reduce toughness. Things like [C]Dead Weight[/C] can kill if they have low toughness to begin with.

Finally you want to mess up their mana generation. This isn't entirely nessicary but it does slow them down and slowing someone, I have found, is invaluable for a mill deck. Throw in some [C] Ghost Quarter[/C]'s or [C] maw of the mire[/C]'s to mess with thier lands so that you nip the high cost spells at the bud and prevent absurd numbers of creatures from showing up at once.


Unfortunately I have not spoiled gatecrash for myself yet. So I cant really offer much in the way of the cipher abilities.
Have you thought about Mutilate as a mid-game board clearer, to help estabilish/regain some semblence of board control?  Maybe add in a couple Ghoulcaller's Chant to get back anything you lose yourself to Mutilate?  I run that in my UB Zombie deck that doesn't get rolling till mid-game, and it helps gain position back against agro, specifically if I have something like a Blood Artist out at the same time, to get health back, to allow myself time to actually get to my wincon.  Obviously Blood Artist wouldn't fit with mill, but Mutilate could help give you time to get to your milling.

Edit:  Also, have you looked at Undead Alchemist + Undercity Informer + Gravecrawler?  Gives you blockers, and mills
Here is another vote for Undead Alchemist.
Also, while you are milling you can always have a play set of Jace's Phantasm a one-drop that becomes a 5/5

Please check out my Blog:

Magic the Gathering Adventures Blog

http://mtgadventures.blogspot.com/

Please check out my YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/rubiera22/featured

 

I'll try the Alchemist+Gravecrawler+Informer combo.

I don't feel the deck has enough swamps to warrant mutilate. I had considered it, but the deck is much more blue heavy than black, and even when I get in Watery graves, I don't feel it will be enough to make mutilate all that worthwhile.

And yes, I'm trying to make it more controlly, but control is not really my strong point (aggro player at heart) so it's trial and error right now. I appreciate every suggestion, though.
Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it. If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear. 

Winning an FNM doesn't make your deck good. You might like your snowflake and feel proud about it but that doesn't make it a tournament level deck. I've won FNMs with garbage before too because 4 rounds is high variance and you can win with trash. FNM for the most part have easier people to play against and more people who are playing on budget.  

On top of all of this the fundamentals of this deck is flawed. To acheive a condition in which mill is an acceptable win condition you need to either control the board or have some kind of lock. This deck does none of that. Aggro decks are going to laugh as you play your creatures that won't save you or your spells that do nothing against them.  Mill is a bad strategy because you're saying instead of playing against 20 life I'm going to play against 40 life and realistically not have any way to interact with their 20 life. These mill cards are fine for casual but not in a tournament setting. This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 



I'm not planning to go on a protour so I'm not really seeing your point. You just seem to want to post to post.


Doesn't mean you can't play good decks, right? 

Your concept is flawed but with tweaking you could have a real deck. How is this not relevant? 

Do you want to be stuck as a bad Magic player or get better? If you're content with being terrible then just say so and not take any constructive advice on how to build better decks.  


But I originally asked for advice in my OP and you never gave any until your third or so post when you were prompted to. You started by just going off on a tangent about how mill is bad, never really giving any advice.


Instead of being the piggy who made his house out of straw why don't you be the piggie who made his house out of bricks? 
Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it. If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear. 

Winning an FNM doesn't make your deck good. You might like your snowflake and feel proud about it but that doesn't make it a tournament level deck. I've won FNMs with garbage before too because 4 rounds is high variance and you can win with trash. FNM for the most part have easier people to play against and more people who are playing on budget.  

On top of all of this the fundamentals of this deck is flawed. To acheive a condition in which mill is an acceptable win condition you need to either control the board or have some kind of lock. This deck does none of that. Aggro decks are going to laugh as you play your creatures that won't save you or your spells that do nothing against them.  Mill is a bad strategy because you're saying instead of playing against 20 life I'm going to play against 40 life and realistically not have any way to interact with their 20 life. These mill cards are fine for casual but not in a tournament setting. This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 



I'm not planning to go on a protour so I'm not really seeing your point. You just seem to want to post to post.


Doesn't mean you can't play good decks, right? 

Your concept is flawed but with tweaking you could have a real deck. How is this not relevant? 

Do you want to be stuck as a bad Magic player or get better? If you're content with being terrible then just say so and not take any constructive advice on how to build better decks.  


But I originally asked for advice in my OP and you never gave any until your third or so post when you were prompted to. You started by just going off on a tangent about how mill is bad, never really giving any advice.


Instead of being the piggy who made his house out of straw why don't you be the piggie who made his house out of bricks? 



Because I find the brick decks boring so I made something different because different decks are fun to me.
Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it. If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear. 

Winning an FNM doesn't make your deck good. You might like your snowflake and feel proud about it but that doesn't make it a tournament level deck. I've won FNMs with garbage before too because 4 rounds is high variance and you can win with trash. FNM for the most part have easier people to play against and more people who are playing on budget.  

On top of all of this the fundamentals of this deck is flawed. To acheive a condition in which mill is an acceptable win condition you need to either control the board or have some kind of lock. This deck does none of that. Aggro decks are going to laugh as you play your creatures that won't save you or your spells that do nothing against them.  Mill is a bad strategy because you're saying instead of playing against 20 life I'm going to play against 40 life and realistically not have any way to interact with their 20 life. These mill cards are fine for casual but not in a tournament setting. This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 



I'm not planning to go on a protour so I'm not really seeing your point. You just seem to want to post to post.


Doesn't mean you can't play good decks, right? 

Your concept is flawed but with tweaking you could have a real deck. How is this not relevant? 

Do you want to be stuck as a bad Magic player or get better? If you're content with being terrible then just say so and not take any constructive advice on how to build better decks.  


But I originally asked for advice in my OP and you never gave any until your third or so post when you were prompted to. You started by just going off on a tangent about how mill is bad, never really giving any advice.


Instead of being the piggy who made his house out of straw why don't you be the piggie who made his house out of bricks? 



Because I find the brick decks boring so I made something different because different decks are fun to me.


UB control would be different... Nobody is playing that right now. 
@Carbonated I understand that @-@ I prefer running mill or big green stompy decks. And when trying to change to something like midrange or heavy burn it takes a bit to wrap the brain around.


@Shadow Because a change in stratagy every now and then keeps the game fresh, more so when its a stratagy you don't generally play. Sometimes format change just doesn't do it for you ya know?


EDIT: Sniped... Ah well wasn't directed at me anyhow. 
Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it. If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear. 

Winning an FNM doesn't make your deck good. You might like your snowflake and feel proud about it but that doesn't make it a tournament level deck. I've won FNMs with garbage before too because 4 rounds is high variance and you can win with trash. FNM for the most part have easier people to play against and more people who are playing on budget.  

On top of all of this the fundamentals of this deck is flawed. To acheive a condition in which mill is an acceptable win condition you need to either control the board or have some kind of lock. This deck does none of that. Aggro decks are going to laugh as you play your creatures that won't save you or your spells that do nothing against them.  Mill is a bad strategy because you're saying instead of playing against 20 life I'm going to play against 40 life and realistically not have any way to interact with their 20 life. These mill cards are fine for casual but not in a tournament setting. This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 



I'm not planning to go on a protour so I'm not really seeing your point. You just seem to want to post to post.


Doesn't mean you can't play good decks, right? 

Your concept is flawed but with tweaking you could have a real deck. How is this not relevant? 

Do you want to be stuck as a bad Magic player or get better? If you're content with being terrible then just say so and not take any constructive advice on how to build better decks.  


But I originally asked for advice in my OP and you never gave any until your third or so post when you were prompted to. You started by just going off on a tangent about how mill is bad, never really giving any advice.


Instead of being the piggy who made his house out of straw why don't you be the piggie who made his house out of bricks? 



Because I find the brick decks boring so I made something different because different decks are fun to me.


UB control would be different... Nobody is playing that right now. 


Why does it upset you that I want to play mill?
Another possible build. This one does a bit better in testing, but it's still not where I'd want it to be.

Creatures: 16


Instant/Sorcery: 12
[deck] 4 Thought Scour
4 Mindsculpt
4 Mind Grind [/deck]

Enchantment: 3
[deck]3 Curse of the Bloody Tome [/deck]

Artifact: 2
[deck]2 Sands of Delirium[/deck]

Planeswalkers: 3
[deck] 3 Jace, Memory Adept [/deck]

Land: 24
[deck]4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Nephalia Drownyard
6 Swamp
10 Island
2 Dimir Guildgate [/deck]
Sorry, I'm not going to sugar coat it. If something is bad, I'm going to say that it's bad. I'm not rearing a child here. I'm trying to explain what is good and what is bad in competitive magic. 

Also, if you want to be a snowflake and have people tell you you're special for making a good deck go talk to your parents about it.

You are the one who is acting childish.

If you want to be casual about your standard deck then go to casual. If you want advice on how to make this a tournament quality deck don't ask for opinions because you might not like what you're going to hear.

There are two tournament-tier forums. Maybe you have confused this forum with those two? This is "Standard deck help", which serves the following role:

"Post here for help building your casual, budget, or noncompetetive Standard decks."

This is the Standard forum not the casual forum. 

Again, there are three Standard forums. This is the one for casual, budget, and noncompetitive Standard decks. The two others are not (Tier 1 and Tier 2). The Casual deck forum is, mostly, for decks not in Standard format.

UB control would be different... Nobody is playing that right now. 

Fact: Many Magic players enjoy playing decks that are different from what other players are doing.

I think maybe the guildmages arent necessary. You are trying to mill... and while you will likely be using the 3 mana ability to turn your mill in to burn, the 4 mana ability is never going to be used, especially if you have a sands of delirium out. I think you could dump them for Fog Bank

The curses seem too slow in comparison to everything else. I think maybe you could run some counterspels in their place
And, call me crazy, but if you arent willing to get snapcaster mages, maybe running Codex Shredder is worth a thought in order to get your Mind Grind back to your hand. Mind Grind seems really powerful.
As long as you are running artifacts, why not try Phylatchery Lich? 3 mana for a 5/5 indestructible zombie that can mill for 5 with Undead Alchemist. Vile Rebirth should have a spot in ur sideboard against reanimator. also Duress and Appetite for Brains.

I'd give more advice but I'd like to see what else the set holds for mill strategies.
ITT: Posters who haven't gotten used to Shadowchu being Shadowchu.

There is truth to his first post, linear mill is a terrible strategy in that it does nothing to prevent getting goldfished by an opponent who has less stuff to deal with to snatch their wins. Where you want to be with the milling cards is using either/both graveyard(s) as a resource. It's a common mistake of new players to only see the scripting at the beginning and end of games- forgetting the bulk of what actually happens within the game.
IMAGE(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af108/acatan/sigwynzermancopy.png) Signature by IMAGE(http://www.poke-amph.com/heartgoldsoulsilver/sprites/258.png)
undead alchemist + jace, memory adept.  It mills, it protects itself and when necessary,  it crashes in with a tidal wave of zombies.

Just remember to keep dissipate mana up! 
Next thing you will tell me Browbeat is bad.
ITT: Posters who haven't gotten used to Shadowchu being Shadowchu.

There is a silver lining in every snowflake: I now know how to block a user.

The new Glaring Spotlight could be a game changer with Undead Alchemist. Not to mention you can finally target sigarda and other hexproof guys with ur removal. Its a must in my opinion, the ability to alpha strike
with all those zombies is too good to pass up.
The new Glaring Spotlight could be a game changer with Undead Alchemist. Not to mention you can finally target sigarda and other hexproof guys with ur removal. Its a must in my opinion, the ability to alpha strike with all those zombies is too good to pass up.

Time to mainboard Sundering Growth? I think this is a mistake by WoTC: I don't like cards that degrade it to a rock, paper, scissors game. This is like the TCG equivalent of an MMO hotfix.

Say what you will about Glaring Spotlight, but while this card can be very helpful under the right circumstances, those circumstances are limited.  Plus, they may sac the spotlight to save their own creature, so if you're aggressive enough with removal, they might just ditch it to save themselves.

And the game, in a way, was always a rock-paper-scissors game.  Just look at Ultimate Price.  It doesn't work against everything, does it?  But the stuff it does work against make it worthwhile to use.
And the game, in a way, was always a rock-paper-scissors game.  Just look at Ultimate Price.  It doesn't work against everything, does it?  But the stuff it does work against make it worthwhile to use.

But Glaring Spotlight is so obviously targeted at Geist of Saint Traft and Invisible Stalker. Wizards has specifically voiced concerns about the interaction between these cards and the Cipher mechanic, and this appears to be the "fix." I think it is a low point in Magic design, but unlike some, I'm not agitated. I do think it might be reasonable to adjust with either counterspells or artifact/enchantment destruction. In a Bant Aura build, Sundering Growth could, in a pinch, be target at one's own enchantment to populate an Angel (with apologies for taking the thread off topic).

Been working on my own list, I'll post it here for you to look at. I went with a very heavy counter control base that waits for late game to kill with the mill with a very heavy mind grind/jace over time or jace with duskmantle guildmage for instant kill (Activate top ability twice, mill 10, they die) also sands of delirium just incase. Anywhere, here it is.

 

4 [C]Farseek[/C]
4 Essence Scatter[/C]3 [c]Fog Bank
4 Duskmantle Guildmage
2 Sands of Delirium
4 Dissipate
4 Psychic Strike
4 Jace, Memory
3 Cyclonic Rift
3 Mind Grind
4 Breeding Pool
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Watery Grave
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Nephalia Drownyard