What are the limits with getting things forged or created?

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hi everyone! im new to d&d and i was just wondering, what are the limits to getting things created at a blacksmith or something. i really wanted to get a hidden blade (ac fan :3) for my assassin class or my rogue class and yeah. is that possible? if not what are the limits, cause my brother has a griffin and he got a wissle that only his griffin could hear... 

i know that this probably isnt the place to post this but i couldnt really define this into the other catagories 
hi everyone! im new to d&d and i was just wondering, what are the limits to getting things created at a blacksmith or something. i really wanted to get a hidden blade (ac fan :3) for my assassin class or my rogue class and yeah. is that possible? if not what are the limits, cause my brother has a griffin and he got a wissle that only his griffin could hear... 

i know that this probably isnt the place to post this but i couldnt really define this into the other catagories 

Best thing to do is ask your DM.

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ok thank you @felorn but the thing is our dm is still also learning aswell....he is a bit ahead of the rest of us but yeah ill just check with him 

 
ok thank you @felorn but the thing is our dm is still also learning aswell....he is a bit ahead of the rest of us but yeah ill just check with him 

 

Well in that case let me direct you a little more. In 4e crafting rules are very vague. The main way most people craft is through s combo of skill checks (Like athletics for the forging) and rituals like Enchant Item, or Disenchant Magic Item, these can both be found in the ritual section of the PHB 1. And then there is also in the book "Martial Power 2" a thing called Martial Practices, they include things like, Master Artisan, Temporary Fix, Embalm, Forge Armor, Forge Weapon, etc. (There are lots). Martial Practices work a lot like rituals as they require some time and specific requirements. Just like Rituals though they require a feat to use. So basically you could either hire a blacksmith which would cost the base item GP plus work charges or learn  yourself through some training. So say you did want that hidden blade (I'm gonna give it's base stats that of a dagger), and you could make it, you would first need the Master Artisan Martial Practice (Forge Weapon and Armour are for magic items typically), MAster Artisan lets you create mundane object for a price set by your DM. So first you would need the items required to make it (Iron ingots, leather, pull switch mechanism, etc) Which I would give a base cost of about 12 GP all together. SO lets start with the dagger's stats.

Dagger 
Proficiency bonus: +3
Damage: 1d4
Thrown Range: 5/10 (Or 5 feet between 50 feet)
Price: 1gp
Weight: 1lb
Group: Light Blade
Properties: Off hand, Light thrown

So lets talk our way through this. We both know the Assassin Hidden Blade Dagger is best at close range and probably wont be being thrown. We also know that is it very easy to conceal with a sleeve. And that if done with a sneak attack it should do more damage. It should also have a bonus to concealment so lets give it a +2 to bluff checks to conceal. Also as I nice bonus for the extra money spent and the power of the spring mech lets give it and extra 1d6 of sneak attack damage.

So here is what we are looking at now:

Hidden Blade
Proficiency Bonus: +3
Damage: 1d4
Thrown Range: N/A
Price: 12gp
Weight: 3lbs
Group: Light Blade
Properties: Off hand, +2 to Bluff checks for concealment, +1d6 damage on sneak attacks

Remember your DM is called Dungeon Master for a reason, so just check in on him with this.

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Just for clarification the 3lbs is only because the rest of the rig. The actual blade would weigh about 7 ounces 

Come to 4ENCLAVE for a fan based 4th Edition Community.

 

I think the ultimate answer in terms of rules for new things is that the game is open-ended and you can always just make up something new. As for costs of hiring people to do things for you, 4e is a bit vague on that, though Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium IIRC has the rules for hirelings and henchmen. Basically if you assume a similar item is priced reasonably, then the labor to make a specialized item is going to be proportional. As Felorn says, a special dagger will require some workmanship and thus you'll have to hire someone, and they'll cost more than a generic dagger, but probably not a HUGE amount more.

You can also think of these things more in terms of story. What does the PC have to do to get this task done? What sorts of adventure might that entail? Maybe you have to find a special and hard-to-find bladesmith. Maybe the assassin's guild gets a bit curious about why your character is making concealed weapons. Maybe some guy you asked for information from narked you out to the local constabulary (very suspicious about concealed weapons). The details of who charges what, etc may not even be that significant. Where the whole thing leads and what adventures arise out of it is the interesting part, and there are no rules for that! Just imagination ;)
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Something for the DM to consider is that GOLD is an important resource as characters level up and it is assummed that the characters will be spending GOLD on equipment and magic items.
If the PCs have to spend too much money over base market value paying for a craftsman's time they will eventually start having weaker magic items then the base assumption.
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
thanks alot felorn, im so making one of those aha and thanks to the others for the tips!
Something for the DM to consider is that GOLD is an important resource as characters level up and it is assummed that the characters will be spending GOLD on equipment and magic items.
If the PCs have to spend too much money over base market value paying for a craftsman's time they will eventually start having weaker magic items then the base assumption.



This is a good point.   A DM MUST be sure there are gold sinks in the game.   The players will learn to not care about finding gold in a chest if they have no need for gold.    Even at level 25, the players should still have uses for money, and never enough to do everything they want.

As for the item crafting, I'd be very reluctant to let a player craft an item with extra abilities that doesn't already exist in some form.   Hidden blade would be similar to a summoning blade, so I'd much rather have the player find one (or have one crafted) that does EXACTLY what the summoning blade does.

Any 'rules adding' must be done with a great amount of caution, otherwise it becomes precedent.   Then, players can wind up with more and more stuff over and above the rules, which can lead to breaking the game.

If a player in my group wants a craftsman to make high-quality cloak, no problem.   If a player wants a craftsman to make a cloak with special properties, I would have to give it deep consideration before probably not allowing it.   Instead, I would try to find an existing item that was similar.
yeah my dm does make sure we get the right amount of gold for a good play
If you are still learning things, it's probably best to stick with the rules, because they are balanced. Getting another +1d6 on Sneak Attacks for 11 gold is not balanced in any way.

Hidden Weapon is a level 3 enchantment that you can look up in the Compendium with your DDI subscription (or find in the online builder).  Thus a Hidden Dagger would cost 680gp.  How you actually get it can be up to the DM, but even when you make magic items, you have to spend the amount of gold that they cost.
If you are still learning things, it's probably best to stick with the rules, because they are balanced. Getting another +1d6 on Sneak Attacks for 11 gold is not balanced in any way.

Hidden Weapon is a level 3 enchantment that you can look up in the Compendium with your DDI subscription (or find in the online builder).  Thus a Hidden Dagger would cost 680gp.  How you actually get it can be up to the DM, but even when you make magic items, you have to spend the amount of gold that they cost.


Its not balanced but not really broken either. It could have out of combat repercussions. Not everyone likes weapons that are concealed. And he is talking about the Assassins Creed blade. Your loosing the ability to throw it as a weapon to get more situational damage (sneak attack). If you find that broken then I would hate to see what you find is balanced. Hidden Weapon is different too. We aren't talking magical weapons. Implementing the weapon I said wouldn't be hard, or broken. Especially if your player weren't crazy powergaming nuts (which the majority of players are)
 

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Its not balanced but not really broken either. It could have out of combat repercussions. Not everyone likes weapons that are concealed. And he is talking about the Assassins Creed blade. Your loosing the ability to throw it as a weapon to get more situational damage (sneak attack). If you find that broken then I would hate to see what you find is balanced. Hidden Weapon is different too. We aren't talking magical weapons. Implementing the weapon I said wouldn't be hard, or broken. Especially if your player weren't crazy powergaming nuts (which the majority of players are)

He stated in his other thread that he's learning D&D to go play it with others at the FLGS. Making custom/houserule items is fine in a home game, but if you're doing pickups/official play you should follow the rules so everyone's on the same page.

And if you want an Assassin's Creed blade, just take any light blade and describe it as such in combat. It's called refluffing, and it's great because it doesn't mess with the existing mechanics of the game. The AC blade is really no more easily concealed than a dagger up the sleeve anyway, since those bulky armguards kind of give it away.