[GTC-ICD] Gruul Charm

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Gruul Charm (Uncommon) -
Instant
Choose one - Creatures without flying can't block this turn; or gain control of all permanents you own; or Gruul Charm deals 3 damage to each creature with flying.
"Not Gruul? Then die!" - Borborygmos

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seems like strictly SB stuff to me. First mode really isn't as amazing as it could be w/ Resto Angel around--the :R: goblin seems better suited for that niche. And mode 3 doesn't even kill angel. Mode 2 probably not enough, even if the control magic variant is played a lot.
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Weeeeeird. Nice art though. Terrible flavor text. Lol
That's uh, that's pretty bad. The 3 damage one is somewhat relevant, and the blocking one I guess is okay in the mirror. I guess.

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Well, it's SB playable...just like all the other charms.
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Damn, that's good in limited.  Falter or kill fliers?  Yes please!

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
gruul already has enough good options for 2 mana at instant speed.  i'm relieved they didn't get another here
With all the combat tricks that Bloodrush can offer, this just seems unnecessary, even in the SB.
Add "Not Gruul? Then die!" to the "Borborygmos Words and Phrases" list alongside "Crush Them!" and "We Eat!".

And now I hear Borb speaking in Ganon's voice from those CDi games.

"Join me Link, and I will make your face the greatest in Korodai, or else you will die."
"You dare bring light to my lair!? YOU MUST DIE!"

This card is innocuous and it's so freakin gross. I'm fond.
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Mode 2...just...why?
More hate for Lingering Souls.
Mode 2...just...why?



Yeah, I agree.  Modes 1 and 3 are pretty sweet, but that has to be one of the least playable/most situational options of all of the charms. 
I like the art. I've not liked any of the charm arts so far, I don't think. The flavour text is getting a little too self-parodic, no?

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Well hello there Brand; my Johnny sense is tingling.
Mode 2...just...why?



Yeah, I agree.  Modes 1 and 3 are pretty sweet, but that has to be one of the least playable/most situational options of all of the charms. 



well, for instance, treacherous pit-dweller
Mode 2...just...why?


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139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
mode 2 is a big FU to Dimir in the face
mode 1 is for Boros

Cool art. Was totally expecting Gruul Chard to have mode that killed Invisible Stalker, weird. Second ability is the most situational charm ability so far I think.

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
To be fair, Gruul already has access to Electrickery and Mizzium Mortars.

I feel like this has a limited scope...

creatures without flying can't block: you already have trample most of the time... and fliers can block non-fliers...
gain conttrol of target permanent. Analogous to Rakdos charm: deal 1 damage for each creature you control, except more limited in scope because there's only like so much control spells out there and most people don't play them
deal 3 damage to all fliers... eh =/ kill ALL the souls! other than that, thundermaw hellkite? he's 5/5, right?
The perspective on that handle to the left is killing me... is it going back and to the left?  Is it straight out left? What's the shadow doing? Eyes...hurting.
The perspective on that handle to the left is killing me... is it going back and to the left?  Is it straight out left? What's the shadow doing? Eyes...hurting.



Damn you for pointing that out.  Can't be unseen...  Maybe it just has a really short handle?
This card is pretty BS. Unusable mode is so bad and the other two are compeltely underwhelming. I can't even kill a restoration angel with this. I would rather it deal 4 to a single flyer. Completely meh. 
damn it it's real. i hate this one.
Disappointed by this, because it isn't maindeckable (unlike some charms).
That said, there are also Charms out there that aren't maindeckable but are GREAT for sideboard. This is one of those charms.
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Sadly, in my playgroup, I'm the only one who has a notable flying deck (so I won't be able to use this much).
The first ability can be useful against defensive decks, and some of my friends just love making those, but still, I'd rather play something more disruptive like a burn spell (but hey, I think I'll give this bad boy a chance)
You know, I don't really know what I wanted with Gruul Charm, but it sure as hell wasn't this.

Would it have been too much to ask for 4 to to a creature, creatures gain +1/+1 and haste, destroy an enchantment?

Maybe, but still its not as Meh as this.
Oh god yes. I wish I had this card a long time ago for werewolves. Depending on the deck I am facing, I either get to swing without being blocked (especially useful against tokens) or if they have a ton of fliers I get to basically kill them off? Most fliers have a low defense anyway so this will most likely kill all but the higher cost fliers.

The only time this card is not useful is when you are running against a deck that is a mixture of non-fliers (will still be blocked) and fliers that are higher costed (3 damage won't kill them). I am perfectly fine with this. The card is good in a Gruul control deck, but I would also SB it in any deck that runs both these colors.
Only thing I like about this card is the flavor text.

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To be fair, the first mode and last mode should make this maindeckable in limited - either sweep their flyers, or alpha swing past their nonflyers. Middle mode is what kills this for me. It has no effect on Soul Ransom, and that leaves the Black Avatar as the only ability to which this speaks so far in GTC (I'm sure there will be one or two more). Of course I am ignoring the POWER of this + conjured currency in DGM limited!
To be fair, the first mode and last mode should make this maindeckable in limited - either sweep their flyers, or alpha swing past their nonflyers. Middle mode is what kills this for me. It has no effect on Soul Ransom, and that leaves the Black Avatar as the only ability to which this speaks so far in GTC (I'm sure there will be one or two more). Of course I am ignoring the POWER of this + conjured currency in DGM limited!

why doesn't this affect soul ransom?

To be fair, the first mode and last mode should make this maindeckable in limited - either sweep their flyers, or alpha swing past their nonflyers. Middle mode is what kills this for me. It has no effect on Soul Ransom, and that leaves the Black Avatar as the only ability to which this speaks so far in GTC (I'm sure there will be one or two more). Of course I am ignoring the POWER of this + conjured currency in DGM limited!

why doesn't this affect soul ransom?



I'd say it has to do with Soul Ransom being an enchantment (i.e. a permanent), which would then cancel the effect from Gruul Charm, what with it being an instant. However, I'm not entirely clear on when the effect from Gruul Charm would be cancelled/overridden by that of Soul Ransom. I am leaning towards interpreting the rules as that you gain control of the creature enchanted by Soul Ransom, and then when SBA:s are checked the next time, it's transferred back to the owner of Soul Ransom. Come to think of it, I have more or less no clue as to how transferring control of creatures affect who controls enchantments attached to said creature...

The complexity of MtG rules in a nut shell.

Edit: a quick Google shows:

"303.4e An Aura’s controller is separate from the enchanted object’s controller; the two need not be the same. Changing control of the object doesn’t change control of the Aura, and vice versa. Only the Aura’s controller can activate its abilities. However, if the Aura grants an ability to the enchanted object (with “gains” or “has”), the enchanted object’s controller is the only one who can activate that ability."
I'm.....really not feeling this one.
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To be fair, the first mode and last mode should make this maindeckable in limited - either sweep their flyers, or alpha swing past their nonflyers. Middle mode is what kills this for me. It has no effect on Soul Ransom, and that leaves the Black Avatar as the only ability to which this speaks so far in GTC (I'm sure there will be one or two more). Of course I am ignoring the POWER of this + conjured currency in DGM limited!

why doesn't this affect soul ransom?




Because soul ransom is a continuous effect, and once gruul charm has resolved, state-based effects will be checked and soul ransom's controller will still control the enchanted creature.
Of course I am ignoring the POWER of this + conjured currency in DGM limited!

Wow, that combo never occured to me. That combo actually makes Conjured Currency a playable card. Hmm. What other cards (such as Brand for example) give back control of owned cards? Add Switcheroo, a few of those, and I see some potential in a Repo deck, here...

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Of course I am ignoring the POWER of this + conjured currency in DGM limited!

Wow, that combo never occured to me. That combo actually makes Conjured Currency a playable card. Hmm. What other cards (such as Brand for example) give back control of owned cards? Add Switcheroo, a few of those, and I see some potential in a Repo deck, here...



Even as a purely Jhonny-ish combo, that sounds bad...

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192884403 wrote:
surely one can't say complex conditional passive language is bad grammar ?
This card does take back a creature taken by Soul Ransom (Or Mind Control, or Control Magic, or any other one of those effects). The time stamp on Soul Ransom is applied when the enchantment is attached. The time stamp on Gruul Charm is applied after that, so it takes priority.
Ah, I see. Well, chalk that up as yet another rule that I didn't understand as well as I thought.

PS. I was half-joking about conjured currency, although it would give me great pleasure to pull it off. 
What's with the 2nd ability?  I could see it being useful in edh
This card does take back a creature taken by Soul Ransom (Or Mind Control, or Control Magic, or any other one of those effects). The time stamp on Soul Ransom is applied when the enchantment is attached. The time stamp on Gruul Charm is applied after that, so it takes priority.



So what you are saying is that Soul Ransom, despite being a permanent, does not entail a continuous effect that is checked when other SBA:s are checked and hence will not return the enchanted creature to the control of Soul Ransom's owner slightly after Gruul Charm has resolved?

I am not arguing with you on this one, but could you enlighten me with a quote from the comprehensive rules?