Dragon 419

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Dragon 419 hit, some articles that might be of note:

Winning Races: Hobgoblins
Pretty amazing racial ability here.  Auto-end an effect.
Great racial weapon training feat, flails and spears.
Constitution, and Intelligence or Charisma.


Winning Races:  Bladelings
Ugh, racial is still 2/4/6 instead of 3/6/9.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
Intelligence? really?
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
at least they didn't make another dex/cha
Sounds like Hobgoblins will be a top Battlemind race.
Any themes? Class support of any kind?

Hobgoblin racial weapon training does sound pretty great. The stat spread could work for a Battlemind, though I'm not sure how much they like spears and flails. IIRC, they do like to MC Fighter and thus can pick up some of the nice flail and spear support over there.
Sounds like Hobgoblins will be a top Battlemind race.



The problem is that Tieflings and Half-elves exist.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
A race that can get spiked chain and weapon focus for it with a feat.

Hobgoblins get a lot of weapons with flails such as nets, spiked chain, and the cahulaks. 
Gouge and Greatspear too.  It's a pretty nice combination feat, AND the damage on it scales 2/3/4 unlike Eladrin/Dwarf.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
Wow the bladeling feats are disappointing.  Spend two feats to make your fists into spiked gauntlets!
I think it's actually nice to see hobgoblin getting INT.  Considering all the hob mages I killed in baldur's gate I & II, it makes sense to me :p  The weapon feat is also very nice.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Would the bladeling feat make monk unarmed strike high crit?  Or is monk unarmed strike and an unarmed strike made by a bladeling different.
Hobgoblin seems to be interesting. +2 initiative is solid. Unfortunately the racial power doesn't work on the most devastating conditions, stunned, dominated, and unconscious, but everything else is free game. With just the weapon training feat they are quite playable. And there is some goodies for an Elementalist with Warcaster Tactics. Phalanx Soldier could have potential, though I'm not coming up with anything right now. Plug the Gap seems like a solid defender utility, particularly for those with defender auras.

Bladelings remain atrocious.
WHAT ABOUT MY LIVING SPELLS???

/me drops a giant rock on zelink and runs away 
WHAT ABOUT MY LIVING SPELLS???

/me drops a giant rock on zelink and runs away 



rude.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Intelligence? really?


Between that or the Cha, I am not sure which is worse in rp for a hobgoblin. 
One thing is for sure, Cha doesn't indicate beauty in 4E.

I kind of want to make a silvertongued hobgoblin. 

Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.

( I can't believe what they did to the forums. The sterile lack or color is rather depressing. )

 

^ rule 34.
Shoulda been Str + Int or Cha so we could have 1 race Fix the retardation that is "Play a Genasi" and "Play a Dragonborn". Also, Hobs are totes an ideal race for Warlord by the fluff.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Yeah, the lack of Str is frustrating IMO.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Shoulda been Str + Int or Cha so we could have 1 race Fix the retardation that is "Play a Genasi" and "Play a Dragonborn". Also, Hobs are totes an ideal race for Warlord by the fluff.

I expect genasi and dragonborn would still be the go-to races for those stat combos.  The support is just way too good, and one article won't move anything ahead of them without being insanely broken.  Looks like hobgoblins got a lot of interesting pieces that don't necessarily mesh together very well.  The weapons they get with their racial training are dex weapons, but their racial stats argue against a dex focus.

Gotta agree with you on the warlord fluff though.  That would have been very nice.  Still, there should be some fun builds that don't suck with hobgoblins now.
I guess there is some funkiness there, lack of Str/Dex/Wis means Hobgoblins make the worst fighters. A race known for its military phalanx can't handle the basic martial defender role. Bit of a fluff/mechanics congruence fail.
Unfortunately, most of the feats that were cut were martial class oriented. I had had something in there for warlords, rogues, and all martial classes, but it looks like they cut back on them to fit page count.

There also wasn't as much that I could do with the racial ability bonuses as I would like. 4e already established Con/Cha, and I did not want to go to 3.x's bonus to Dex. Hobgoblins being intelligent fit their flavor. If I were building them from scratch, I'd have considered Str and Int/Cha (if svirfneblin can get a Str bonus, hobgoblins definitely can), but I think Con and Int/Cha works. It's just unfortunate that Con is almost entirely a secondary ability for 4e classes.
While the bladeling feats do suck, some of the powers seem useful(the level 6 and 22 ones seem like big gains in dps for multiattackers, and I do like the level 16 power even if it is useless for anything in combat), and the added racial trait and stat options seem to allow them to be half decent Brawlers.  But seriously, those feats, wow are they bad.  Maybe a fighter could make use of increasing the burst of the racial power for a close burst 2 minor action mark, but even then, there has to be better feats to take.

Hobgoblins got some awesome feats however, though I do question the int bonus stat.  Guess hobgoblins get to be good swordmages now, and able to use mounts better than anyone.
So are there now 2 different improved razor storm feats? Or does the newest one override the older one?
to fit page count.


Careful, we don't want to run out of Internets!

I actually had never looked up the pre-existing stats for Hobgoblins, so thanks for adding Int.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
This article catapults hobgoblins to the top 2 races for Ardents. They want to fight on the frontline but have notoriously bad AC (chain, no shields). Now they get defender AC for only two feats and no check penalty. On the other hand, if you want to use a Greatspear at reach (also an awesome weapon for Ardents), the racial weapon training is great for that too.

Aside from those two feats, the racial initiative bonus and the level 22 utility are good, and I guess the mount feat if you want to go that route? Thanks for the article, love it.
Unfortunately, most of the feats that were cut were martial class oriented. I had had something in there for warlords, rogues, and all martial classes, but it looks like they cut back on them to fit page count. There also wasn't as much that I could do with the racial ability bonuses as I would like. 4e already established Con/Cha, and I did not want to go to 3.x's bonus to Dex. Hobgoblins being intelligent fit their flavor. If I were building them from scratch, I'd have considered Str and Int/Cha (if svirfneblin can get a Str bonus, hobgoblins definitely can), but I think Con and Int/Cha works. It's just unfortunate that Con is almost entirely a secondary ability for 4e classes.



Can you post the cut stuff Herid, or does that count as WotC owned content? I'm always interested in the stuff CharOp cooks up in its spare time.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I can certainly ask. I'll look into it.
We get a fairly potent Con-Int race and charop turns its nose up at it? I've clearly been gone too long and the world has gone topsy-turvy! Given the requirement thanks to the Monster Manual that they were stuck with CON-CHA as one combination I think INT is the best choice.


Artificers and Swordmages rejoice. Spiked Chain is one of my favorite options for Artificer anyway.
New Races simply aren't going to compare to old ones without some absurdly broken mechanic (pixies).

Spiked Chain is terrible for both Artificers and Swordmages, you have better MCs to take, and Flails are mostly useless to both.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Looking at some of the mount options for Goblins and Hobgoblins, there's some juicy stuff here. These abilities have the Mount keyword, which means you need the Mounted Combat feat to use them. But that's what the Hordelands Nomad theme is for.

Warhorse (level 3, Large): +5 untyped damage bonus to rider's charge attacks.

Clawfoot (level 3, Medium): makes an MBA when its rider charges (+9 vs AC, 1d8+3). Can be ridden by a medium creature.

Magebred Destrier (level 5, Large): +6 untyped damage bonus to rider's charge attacks. Encounter power: gains temp HP = rider's surge value when rider spends a surge.

Hippogriff Dreadmount (level 5, Large): fly 10, can make a saving throw to prevent itself from falling prone or its rider falling off. Forced movement is 1 square less.

Dire Boar (level 6, Large): uses crappy MBA when its rider hits with a charge (+11 vs AC, 2d10+4, +9 vs prone targets). Also uses MBA when it dies.

Griffon (level 7, Large): fly 10, can make 2 MBA's after its rider charges (+12 vs AC, +14 when bloodied, 2d6+10).

Dragonhawk (level 8, Large): fly 12, roll twice for initiative.

Wyvern (level 10, Large): fly 8, rider gets +2 untyped bonus to all defenses while flying.

Nightmare (level 13, Large): teleport 10 with rider, resist 20 fire for rider.

Hm, looks like it drops off after heroic. You don't want to ride a mount that instantly dies when hit, even if its defenses scale with yours. Although a Martyr's Saddle fixes that a bit if you're not really using your immediate action.
The dex shenanigans could be done with a dead hobby... Waiting for mellos first revenant hobgoblin build...
You missed the Behir Stormsteed and the Pact Dragon sven. They were always worth using because of their brokenness, those two.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
I only checked the Item section of the Compendium for mounts. I'm reading RF's mount guide, and just noticed that there are a lot more mounts available. Not sure if you can get those without cooperation from your DM though, since they don't have an official pricetag.
By the way, a link to the download page in the OP would be nice.
Q: Does the Hobgoblin utility "Plug the Gap" immediately give you an OA?  Since it is an interupt to them moving and now you are standing next to them, or can they stop the movement to avoid getting knocked around?
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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The trigger still resolves, the only thing that can cancel a trigger that's already begun is an Immediate Action that forces the trigger to become invalid (such as proning a moving creature)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Immediate Interrupts:
An immediate interrupt jumps in when its trigger occurs, taking place before the trigger finishes.

Opportunity Attack:
If an enemy leaves a square adjacent to you, you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy.
Interrupts Target’s Action: An opportunity action takes place before the target finishes its action. After the opportunity attack, the creature resumes its action.

Seems this works! The interrupt allows you to step in before the target moves, and the movement then provokes an OA when it actually leaves its square. And like Zathris says, the enemy can't choose to not move since the trigger still resolves. Nice for classes like Fighters and Euphoric Ardents who have good OA's.
It's the same argument for Lightning Rushing an enemy making a ranged attack.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Hobgoblin article is pretty good.  There are a few good niche feats in there.  Hobgoblin Phalynx Soldier is interesting, but I can't think of too many classes its worth using on.  Shamans are the only one that jumps out at me as not having a shield at all and not wanting something else in the off hand, but its not bad on some other casters.  Some light shield classes like bards and warlords can get use out of it.  Probably some hybrids too.

Superior discipline doesn't seem worth it for a daily.  Plug the gap is very good.

Bladeling article is disappointing.  Nothing in the race seems that interesting and the racial attack is the one thing with real potential, but it doesn't scale right.
Shiny.  I dig the hobgoblin.

Also seriously?  13 Str and a feat gets you +2 to AC and Reflex without any other penalty, if you're a class that doesn't use shields, and you can't think of too many classes it's worth using on?  Weren't we just discussing how people like Unarmored Agility?  By RAW, it also gives Spiked Shield proficiency, if that's your thing, and so you get the 'ignore check penalty' part for free.  I can definitely see something like an Elementalist going for a shield instead of DIS.

Official ratings:

Goblinoid Mount Training:  Flavorful, useful if you actually care to use it, but not spectacular.

Hobgoblin Beast Companion:  Probably not worth the feat, but again flavorful.  I'm not sure why you care if your beast companion has an effect on it.

Hobgoblin Phalanx Soldier:  Very strong defensive feat.  Heavy Shield without check penalty, all for one feat, will provide a serious defensive boost to certain classes.  Anyone not specifically using two weapons or a two-hander should look at this. 

Hobgoblin Weapon Training:  Fantastic.  All of these profiency + improved focus feats are great, and this is no exception.  Very nice set of weapons, as well.  Greatspear, gouge, spiked chain, triple-headed flail are the standouts.  Note that even without Spiked Chain Training, the Spiked Chain is still a +3/2d4 reach flail.  If you don't need it to be a double weapon or a light blade, this feat alone is sufficient.

Phalanx Advance:  Nice, I guess.  Not that nice.

Warcaster Tactics:  Similar feats for other classes have obnoxious stat prereqs.  For the select few classes that could use this, it could be very effective.  It'd be nicer if it applied to area, as well, which is why it isn't blue.

Warrior's Sacrifice:  Nice flexible option for an already awesome racial power, if you like handing out saves this is for you.

Utility powers, meh.  I'm too lazy to rate.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
A nice bonus about Hobgoblin Phalanx Soldier is the fact that you gain proficiency in all shields  if this is like other racial profiency feats, this should imply even superior shields; at the least barbed shields (that are a bit meh) but a reasonable argument should be made for spiked shields/tortoise blades/gauntlet axes