Survival of the NicFit

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Maybe, but I don't think so.  I do think I don't like a singleton Deathrite Shaman.  He's too good to be anything less than a 3-of.

I think I don't like Wall of Blossoms, Sakur-Tribe Elder and Mirri's Guile.  I think the creatures do too little and the enchantment gets hit too often by Deed.

I'm also not sure how much I like Diabolic Intent.  You don't really need to tutor for an exact card to win the game, so it might not be all that great.

I think you need a Volrath's Stronghold and Phyrexian Tower somewhere.
Two towers seems fair. I'll get those in.

STE is for Dredge. Apparently all the DRS in the world cannot stop it from Top 8'ing this weekend. Bizarre. This also emboldened me to continue to play in the GY. I also want a GSZ for X=2 target just for curve consistency in some situations. I will cut the Wall of Blossoms for an additional DRS.

Intent is an extra sac outlet to ensure I bin Veteran Explorer... and it lets me go fetch the 1 of Existence/Library (after I cut Guile) and it lets me retrieve the right removal for the job, be it Deed, Pulse, or Decay.

All told I'll

-1 Forest, -1 Swamp + 1 Volrath Stronghold , +1 Phyrexian Tower
-1 Wall of Blossoms, +1 Deathrite
-1 Mirri's Guile, +1 Deathrite 

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

STE is for Dredge.


I don't get it.... can you explain this to me please?


I like Intent.  
I wonder though, having 3 INtent & 4 GSZ, how have you found these numbers? 
 
Tortured Existence looks good.
But I'm not sure about the Krovikan Horror.  It feels very conditional at that manacost, even if it does give you direct damage options.
 Considering the amount of fetches you're running, what about a single Bloodghast for a recursive threat and sac outlet? 
(Ghost Town likes Ghast) 

Just a quick question - do NicFit builds ever include cards like Vexing Shusher, Burgeoning//Exploration or Living Wish?
I don't get the STE being for Dredge either.  You should have plenty of ways of killing your own guys to get rid of Bridges...
Krovikan Horror + Tortured Existence = combo. I can re-order my graveyard using existence and pitch horror to recur any creature I want... like Survival of the Fittest for my graveyard.

There are definitely a lot of ways to sac creatures in the deck... however not a lot of ways to do it at instant speed... and when dredge starts stacking bridges you feel compelled to respond to a draw spell sometimes to keep from losing. 

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Krovikan Horror + Tortured Existence = combo. I can re-order my graveyard using existence and pitch horror to recur any creature I want... like Survival of the Fittest for my graveyard.

There are definitely a lot of ways to sac creatures in the deck... however not a lot of ways to do it at instant speed... and when dredge starts stacking bridges you feel compelled to respond to a draw spell sometimes to keep from losing. 



Okay cool - I didn't see the combo there.
Cheers.  

What's your board like?  I'm curious about the deck.

   
That's the next step.

I know this deck has a good matchup against fair decks so the SB will be almost exclusively to deal with unfair. 

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Mainboard is already quite strong against combo.  Cabals and Innocent Blood are great against omniscience decks. For added graveyard hate you could play with crop rotation and bojuka bog.

+2 Abrupt Decay
 
This next suggestion may sound weird, but I've had luck with a singleton Vraska in the board.  Unexpected in legacy.  What about a Nether Void?  That could prove to be the straw that breaks to most decks.
Nether Void is fascinating; probably better suited in a build hitting white for Academy Rector.

I'm happy with 2 Decay, 2 Pulse, 2 Deed. 

I actually built last night and juggled out: Krovikan Horror, Necroplasm, Tortured Existence, STE. Added: 3 Thoughtseize, 1 Thragtusk (2 total).

I want all of my creatures to be green sunnable.... and I wanted my 5cc slot to be excellent in case of the nut T1 fetch/forest -> Explorer, T2 Phyrexian Tower into 5 mana. Playing Thragtusk turn 2 in Legacy is probably just about a huge beating.

I started adding cards to my sideboard as such:
Chameleon Colossus (tech reach for BUG, got a hunch he'll be fine) 
3 more K-Finks (why punt to Burn? also on a very minor note, scapeshift is something this archetype uses successfully)
1 STE (for Dredge)
1 Tajuru Preserver (thinking Sneak Show/Emrakul)
1 Abrupt Decay

I have 4 slots left and I think I want my Necroplasm back in here so I can board it in against decks that flood the low CC slot (elves, miracles, maverick) because he really wrecks them. And I can manipulate him to be trivial to me. Then I think the rest is additional graveyard hate. Maybe Crop Rotations and a Bojuka Bog?

EDIT: Potential Sideboard:
 

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Is there possibly space in the deck to fit minor white?  If you could you could board or main a Sigarda, Host of Herons.  You could even main her for a Titan, since titan is plowable.  She also is zenith'ed for.  Then you could play STP as well.  But that's a rough list to cram more in to.  I think Sigarda is reaonable to at least consider.  Moar basic lands than you can consistently get around with.

I wanna see the look on a dredge player's face when you rotate in to a bog.  Take a picture for me.
malpheas, its a fair question.

There's really good discussion going on over here I'm trying to get into:
www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.p...(GBW-Explorer-Zenith-Control)&p=698522#post698522

What do you think of Kodama of the North Tree?

Pretty crazy but its a legit target with trample and shroud! 

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

If you win a tournament with Kodama of the North Tree in your deck can you sign mine? 
Sure. Funny thing; I had moved mine into my bulk box I intended to sell at the 5k.

Think I'm gonna write "Andy" on his foot.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

heh.

That guy used to be a real beater. he's seen better days.  
What do you think of Kodama of the North Tree?



I personally don't like KNT.  :G::G::G: later with */4 just rubs me the wrong way, especially with no evasion.  I have just started reading the last bit of that thread over at MTG Source.  Looks good so far, it reflects a way I used to play magic a LONG time ago.  Who knew Junk / Bug / B/G/X could be so good?
I also just recently built my own version of Nic Fit.  My personal touch was to add one Mountain and one Kessig Wolf Run for Primeval Titan and Plow Under (one main one side).  I'm new to the deck, so I'm not sure how that's going to work out, but it seems great to negate the opponent's ramp as well as giving them basic lands for the next two draws.

Tajuru Preserver is awesomely techy, but seems too narrow to take up a sideboard slot.  Is there anything to use it against besides Emrakul?

In the short time I've played I found that Divining Top is way better than Library in this deck.  Not only does Top save itself from a Deed, with all our shuffle effects it's not hard to see 9 different cards a turn with it.  EoT or upkeep Top, find and draw a GSZ.  Cast it for Vet, shuffle, Top to look again.  Nothing good, sac Vet to dig out lands, Top again.

I've thought about Loaming Shaman instead of/in addition to Bojuka Bog.  I'm not running Crop Rotation at the moment, so Shaman would be easier to grab with GSZ.
Speaking of GSZ, I've considered replacing one with either Chord of Calling or Living Wish.  Chord is instant speed and both can grab non-green creatures, which allows you to change up your toolbox.  The extra mana cost makes them bad for opening hand, but the deck can ramp up fast enough to make it managable. 

Here's the list I'm using right now.  Like I said, I'm new to the deck, so I'm still figuring out exactly what works and what doesn't, and swapping things in and out all the time.



I read some bits of that thread you linked and took a few suggestions, namely Master of the Wild Hunt and Huntmaster.  I like the interaction there and with Garruk, all making wolves for the Master to fight with.  And all three can potentially kill a Veteran.  More Bayous will replace basics as I get them.

My sideboard right now is more of a list of cards that seem good in certain matchups.  I haven't made it a solid 15 yet, but I want to include Extirpate, more sweepers, Karakas and/or Hornet Queen for Gris/Emrakul decks, Darkblast for small creatures, and Banefire and Slaughter Games since I have the little bit of red splash.  Among other things.
SDT is definitely a better one than Library. I went out yesterday to deliberately find 2-3 of them... struck out but found a slightly beat up Bayou I got for $60. So it wasn't a total waste.

I think the source thread has some good information, but those guys IMO might be overcomplicating the problem. Oh no, my creature dies to removal. Let's put scapeshift and burning wish and valakut in the deck. Hah! Oh no, people can counter my scapeshift and I need better draw power... let's make it blue and stack up 8 cards people have to read when you play them so you can get cutesy with panoptic mirror? That stuff is a real slippery slope.

Instead I was joking about this in magic general but I realized this deck is a good spot to.. for lack of a better term... troll... the format.

Here's where I went:


Cannot remember my last 2 sideboard cards right now. Might be 2 more Deathrite Shamans to be honest.

So... since people are having trouble with having their wincons removed I not only stuck with North Tree and Thrun, I added Troll Ascetic. Major lulz are to be had when you give these guys Batterskull... and Batterskull itself is a removal resistant wincon which still dodges things like abrupt decay, d-sphere, o-ring when you've got all the mana we do. Plus this deck can keep it coming back in an obnoxious way even stoneblade cannot reproduce.

So I present; Trollskills. 

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I definitely understand wanting another beefy/resilient creature.  I've been thinking about trying to fit in Godo, Bandit Warlord + Batterskull and maybe Jitte.  Gaea's Revenge is another good one.  Abyssal Persecutor would work with all our sac outlets.  And I probably will run a second Thrun in the sideboard because there's always at least one Miracles where I play.
Gaea's Revenge... that's pretty sexy. Makes me want to turn on ****-mode and buy in. God that card is brutish in legacy!

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Huh.  Yeah that revenge is very nice.  You could even swap it in for Chameleon in SB.  JBTM has a thing going with the Recurring Nightmare; that card is bonkers in here...

I'm in a toss-up between SDT and Library.  I think 2 Library would be better than 2 SDT, because the library offers more consistent card advantage and costs life rather than mana.  You could even go with Scroll Rack because of excess of mana.

Lastly, because of the amount of combo removal you have in your MB already, I think the Memoricide could be better placed as an Extirpate; uncounterable removal which can hit non-basic lands.  The ability to hit non-basics is very valuable.

I'm building a deck that could turn in to NicFit atm, we'll see how it goes. 

Cheers,

Malph  
I can follow the recurring nightmare. Seems smart to mise in a single copy.

I can also follow 2 Libraries. I think being able to force draw is important... and even if you lose one to a deed you can e-witness it back.

I still think this deck can roll to combo even though I'm running 4 therapy / 3 seize. Going to keep the Memoricide and crop rotation package.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
Standard Forum - Iron Deck Builder Season One Champ

Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Libraries are bad for raw draw power in a control deck (paying 4 life per card adds up quick). You're better off running Phyrexian Arena, Recycle, Null Profusion, or just cantrip looping with the Two Towes and Wall of Blossoms/Eternal Witness. Plus, mana is something that Nic Fit has in general, not necessarily life.

Also, seconded on Extirpate/Surgical Extraction, if only because they synergize well Cabal Therapy and Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek/Duress (Cabal Therapy especially as it turns blind calls into psychic ones).

Trollskulls looks interesting: I'm gonna try replacing something in my main for 1-2 Skulls myself.
Tested for 6 hours last night playing against that shardless rug deck, jund, and a punishing maverick deck.

Some realizations:

The deck really does have to have Innocent Blood. The lists not running this must have resulted from in-bred testing.

Without the early game stabilize from Innocent Blood I could rarely afford to put Batterskull out.

The deck adores Garruk PH. The deck liked Vraska quite a bit when experimented with as a 1x. The GB build does indeed like planeswalkers since it needs card advantage.

Troll Ascetic was fine. Tough roadblock for a lot of decks. Thrun on 3 forced a scoop. Never drew or had the right situation to gsz for Kodama. The shroud package was tough, however it kind of precludes using Innocent Blood and a shroud creature doesn't stabilize the board for you.

Thragtusk is amaze-balls. I started with 1, always good. Added a second.... ok good.. Added a third. Still good. With 3 in the deck you can get yourself in a position to draw 3 with Sylvan. This was kind of a big deal since the deck produces so much mana it is hungry for cards.

Tested 2 Wastelands. 2 isn't necessary, 1 will do.

People bash on Diabolic Intent. I can follow the logic, but it really lets you do some great things when you're on the play or if you've broken tempo momentarily. I think 3 is always the wrong number. Backing it down to a 2x, which should work out.

Dryad Arbor has been fine. Verdant Catacombs + Intent in your hand is actually any card you want to not lose the game you're playing. Can also use her as a lot of people do, which is to protect against opponents sac effects. 

Sylvan Library was great. The shuffle effects make SDT good, but the same holds true for Sylvan... however SDT has that thing it does where it never actually gives you CA, just draw quality. Sylvan can just raw draw you cards to catch up to some sick draw spells (Like when I was trying to catch up to ancestral visions). Now I am considering a 2nd Sylvan Library, but with Intent its not really required is it?

Deathrite Shaman and I are on the outs. This isn't the kind of deck that needs incremental advantage to win a game. Once this pile turns off cruise control it wants to mash the accelerator and close quick. There is nothing gassy about DRS here. Awesome card though.

Sakura Tribe Elder was ok... and cool for gold fishing to stabilize plays on the curve.. but in general a do nothing in legacy. I again suspect more inbred testing.

Decay/Pulse/Deed of course are great reasons to play the deck. I never felt like anyone played a card I couldn't handle. I was running on 3/2/2 and it felt good... sometimes I wish I had a 3rd pulse... sometimes a 3rd deed... never a 4th decay.

Going to edit in a new decklist with changes and a highlighted flex slot I'm debating.

EDIT:

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

List looks very good.  I had wondered about STE, but you've cleared that up.

Critiques:


  1. I don't get 2 Liliana MB, I think one is enough and it isn't really an answer, just a control thing.  Would it be better served as a Pulse?

  2. You could could put in 1 more Diabolic Intent and an extirpate in SB and remove 2 Memoricide.  I think it's better to draw something else than in to a random Cranial / Memoricide.

  3. I'm not convinced about Arena still, but that's a personal testing thing, which I haven't done any of with this list. 

  4. Another forest looks like it wants to be a bayou, but I wasn't sure if that was on an availability or a build choice.

You're tempting me to make this freakin' list Niche, it looks way fun.

Cheers,

Malph
You're right about Liliana... She needs to be a 1 of because of Intent.

I like the sideboard suggestion of trimming memoricides for for that pairing.

Arena seems fine. The deck wants card volume after turn 5 once we've thinned the deck out.

A 3rd bayou is tempting, but it'd come at the expense of a swamp... but I also don't want to dip under 9 basics... that number feels good.

I moved Thrun back from the sideboard into the mainboard... swapping the wasteland to the sideboard to be part of the Crop Rotation package. Needed another body because GSZ was getting bad. 

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I like the hexproof package you've got going on, so I've swapped Master of the Hunt and Huntmaster out of my deck for Troll Ascetic and Tarmogoyf, because I wanted another 2-drop.  I haven't had time to do real testing yet, but from goldfishing I'm not seeing any reason for Ascetic to not just be another Thrun.  On their own, Thrun's clock is two turns faster, and he's out of Pyro/Fallout range.
That said, I do want another 3-drop in his place.  This is just a thought here, but what about Dreg Mangler?
Ascetic is out... I used Lili 2.0 for a while but I dropped her.

Cut 2 lilis and a diabolic intent for a Necroplasm, Terravore, and a Bloodgift Demon. Those 3 slots are very flexible. Necroplasm acts like a 3rd Deed against certain decks that keeps on swinging.. Demon is a Phyrexian Arena that ends the game... and Terravore is that 3 drop beater we're after that is GSZable. 

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Lovin this thread.

So how you finding the Walkers, since you can't GSZ them?  
Walkers are great... many decks in Legacy just cannot cope with them. Love 2 GPHs... Vraska is kind of fringe.... and should probably not survive the next iteration.

Karn might be good enough considering we need a strong response to a deck like hypergenesis... because they will eventually go off... but Karn answers resolved issues. Same logic behind Lili 2.0 

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I've been testing a NicFit deck (small white splash) with Living Wish.
Relative to your deck Niche, how about it?
Could it be worth it to get another Witness, DRS, Arbor for sacrifice, Vexing Shusher , massive fatty or ETB=removal creature?
Doesn't have to be a green creature, and it gives you access to hate like Bojuka Bog, Phyrexian Metamorph, Grave Titan etc.
 
Body Snatcher could be fun as a Living Wish target, shame about the remove part of the rules.
Just have this stupid idea of Snatcher togteher with Nightmare, just abusing ETB effects like Thragtusk.  LOL.
I do like Living Wish a lot.

I'll try to get one or two in the deck and shave some creature quantities since mana is rarely an issue.

Being able to go get a Tajuru Preserver against an Emrakul seems good. 

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

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