Should Hlaf-elves, Half-Orcs, Aasimar, Tieflings, etc. have their own race?

In my mind, a suitable mechanic would allow for creation of half-elves by merging humans and elves or for creating aasimars by merging humans and celestials.  I don't see the need for creating hybrids as a separate listing if one method is created that allows for players to merge two parent races on their own.

Do people agree with me or do they prefer to have separate listing for the many hybrids (half-elves, half-orcs, half-dragons, half-ogres, half-vampires, aasimar, tieflings, shifters, changelings, genasi, mongrelfolk, half-minotaurs, etc.

If dragons, ogres, orcs, elementals, vampires, lycanthropes, celestials, demons, devils, elves, minotaurs, etc. are built in a playable way then a hybrid mechanic could produce human-(other) hybrids.  More importantly you could create hybrids with elves, dwarves, halflings, orcs, etc. as one of the parent races instead of always using humans.

Some hybrid should be separate races. Others could be templates applied to a base-race (with a rule that you can only have one hybrid template).

It would be careful, fiddly work trying to make such templates balanced (as in, neither obligatory for optimization perposes nor a sacrifice in the name of roleplay), and I don't think they should be done in the manner of 3E's level adjustment (ye gods, the level adjustment).
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Some hybrid should be separate races. Others could be templates applied to a base-race (with a rule that you can only have one hybrid template).

It would be careful, fiddly work trying to make such templates balanced (as in, neither obligatory for optimization perposes nor a sacrifice in the name of roleplay), and I don't think they should be done in the manner of 3E's level adjustment (ye gods, the level adjustment).



In my mind each race would be normalized to have very similar and comparable abilities, such as:
1. Weapon training
2. Language
3. Ability Score bonus
4. 2 Skills
5. Minor ability related to a class (cantrip, armor bonus, sneaking ability, etc.)

Hybrids could then mix and match between the two parent races.

All minor abilities would need to be similarly matched in power level.

While I was developing a Star Trek RPG, one of the early designs for racial mechanics was that each race had two collumns of abilities and bonuses. If you are a full-blood member of that race, you get both collumns. If you were a hybrid, you took the left collumn from one race, and the right collumn from another race. Usually the two collumn primarily represented genetic predispositions (inherent physical and mental abilities) vs cultural predispositions (behavioral characteristics and social advantages). I'll see if I can dig up my old documents for some examples.
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The way races are set up, hybrids would have to be their own races. Races are self contained packaged deals and the only way to do their justice to to write them from scratch or change the entire racial module.

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Hybrids that can breed true are separate races.
Hybrids created by the union of two existing races are hybrids.  

Aasimar, tieflings, shadar-kai, gith, all breed true.  
Half-elves, muls, and half-orcs do not.
Hybrids that can breed true are separate races.
Hybrids created by the union of two existing races are hybrids.  

Aasimar, tieflings, shadar-kai, gith, all breed true.  
Half-elves, muls, and half-orcs do not.



Half-elves breed true in Eberron, and 4e half-Orcs are implied not to even be a hybrid. Muls, however, can't breed true, so they might be serves by some sort of hybrid rules, though they are stronger than either humans or dwarves.
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The common hybrids like half-orc and half-elf should have separate races. There should also be templates like celestial for rare creaters.
I am surprised by the greater number of people who want separate races for hybrids.

I thought people might be interested in building elf-dwarf hybrids, halfling-elf hybrids, halfling-dwarf hybrids, etc. 

Under a separate race category, it would take much more energy to define each hybrid.

Of course, I've never played a half-elf or half-orc so I have no interest in either.
While I was developing a Star Trek RPG, one of the early designs for racial mechanics was that each race had two collumns of abilities and bonuses. If you are a full-blood member of that race, you get both collumns. If you were a hybrid, you took the left collumn from one race, and the right collumn from another race. Usually the two collumn primarily represented genetic predispositions (inherent physical and mental abilities) vs cultural predispositions (behavioral characteristics and social advantages). I'll see if I can dig up my old documents for some examples.


This is the type of mechanic that would seem to relate well.  I see very little reason to have hybrids as a separate race except for out of tradition for the older editions of D&D.

Seems that a mechanic for developing hybrids would be far more elegant and interesting.  It could allow for more customized character creation.

I would also separate biology from culture.
I'm playing a half-orc right now in a Next playtest, another party member is a half-elf. Basically, the half-orc uses human stats and the half-elf is using elf stats. Works fine, just flavor.

I really don't think the basic rules need hybrid rules, but could see modules based on them.
I'm playing a half-orc right now in a Next playtest, another party member is a half-elf. Basically, the half-orc uses human stats and the half-elf is using elf stats. Works fine, just flavor.

I really don't think the basic rules need hybrid rules, but could see modules based on them.


I can certainly get behind the idea that hybrids would be part of a module (and one I would probably pick up). I do not see them as essential to the core D&D experience.
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The common hybrids like half-orc and half-elf should have separate races. There should also be templates like celestial for rare creaters.



I would rather there be a specific “hybrid” mechanic for blending any two player races.

At the same time, common blends like Half-Elf and Half-Orc can have their own write-ups that serve as examples of how to use this hybrid mechanic, and serve as convenient readymades.
The common hybrids like half-orc and half-elf should have separate races. There should also be templates like celestial for rare creaters.



I would rather there be a specific “hybrid” mechanic for blending any two player races.

At the same time, common blends like Half-Elf and Half-Orc can have their own write-ups that serve as examples of how to use this hybrid mechanic, and serve as convenient readymades.



I agree with this solution.  It would satisfy people who want half-elves and half-orcs as separate races but provide an elegant mechanism for creating a vast variety of hybrids as well.

Maybe instead of a half-elf human you could play a half-human elf.
I do believe that the rules have long stated that half elves do breed true with other half elves. I am not sure about half orcs. They should have their own entry.

I do want to see templates for other 'races' like the different shifters like weretigers. I want my half elf weretiger wizard back.
For mechanic game effects, the most popular mixture blood are separated PC races.

Other thing would be the no canon mixture blood, for example gremlin = kobold + goblin (= ape with scales?), elfling (it was canon in Dark Sun, and main character of trilogy Tribe or one was elfing).


And don´t forget the bloodline feats like dhampires.


I have got a doubt about templates:

Warforged (or sharmind)+ half-golem template.

Dragonborn + half-dragon.

Aasimar + half-celestial

Tiefling + half-infernal

Shifter + feral (savage species).

Vryloka (heroes of shadow) + half-vampire (from Libris Mortis) (and dhampire bloodline).

---

Posdata and off-topic: 

I have thought about ushabti like a PC race, the deathless* version of warforged. They would like little brother of mummies, a mixture of mummies and revenrant PC race from "Heroes of Shadow". (* Deathless is a monster type from "Book of Exalted Deeds" like undead).  

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ushabti

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A hybrid system would require races to be purposely built for the hybrid system to work.

The current races lack any uniformity to make hybrids.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

A hybrid system would require races to be purposely built for the hybrid system to work.

The current races lack any uniformity to make hybrids.


In addition, it would do so at the expense of making non-hybrid characters more complicated to make. A brand-new D&D player may become confused by the additional terminology and formatting required.

The solution, therefore, is to push racial design in a direction that anticipates hybridization, but keeps the "seams" hidden. Then, in a later publication that focuses on races and racial abilities, introduce the PHB races in "halves," so they can be spliced together as the player sees fit.

It would require much greater uniformity of racial abilities and formatting than we have now, but it's totally doable.
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In my mind, a suitable mechanic would allow for creation of half-elves by merging humans and elves or for creating aasimars by merging humans and celestials.  I don't see the need for creating hybrids as a separate listing if one method is created that allows for players to merge two parent races on their own.


While I agree with this sentiment, I think the most common hybrids should already be presented as pre-built hybrid races.  Half elves and half orcs are common enough in D&D that there's no reason to make people build them from scratch.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

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A hybrid system would require races to be purposely built for the hybrid system to work.

The current races lack any uniformity to make hybrids.


In addition, it would do so at the expense of making non-hybrid characters more complicated to make. A brand-new D&D player may become confused by the additional terminology and formatting required.

The solution, therefore, is to push racial design in a direction that anticipates hybridization, but keeps the "seams" hidden. Then, in a later publication that focuses on races and racial abilities, introduce the PHB races in "halves," so they can be spliced together as the player sees fit.

It would require much greater uniformity of racial abilities and formatting than we have now, but it's totally doable.


An advantage to this system would be that it standardizes the racial mods and abilities so they are balanced and uniform.  It would create a template for later races and prevent power drift.
For mechanic game effects, the most popular mixture blood are separated PC races.

Other thing would be the no canon mixture blood, for example gremlin = kobold + goblin (= ape with scales?), elfling (it was canon in Dark Sun, and main character of trilogy Tribe or one was elfing).


And don´t forget the bloodline feats like dhampires.


I have got a doubt about templates:

Warforged (or sharmind)+ half-golem template.

Dragonborn + half-dragon.

Aasimar + half-celestial

Tiefling + half-infernal

Shifter + feral (savage species).

Vryloka (heroes of shadow) + half-vampire (from Libris Mortis) (and dhampire bloodline).

---

Posdata and off-topic: 

I have thought about ushabti like a PC race, the deathless* version of warforged. They would like little brother of mummies, a mixture of mummies and revenrant PC race from "Heroes of Shadow". (* Deathless is a monster type from "Book of Exalted Deeds" like undead). 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ushabti



I'm still fighting for making the so-called templates "racial baseplates" which can be expanded through templates and whatnot.  That way a half-dragon becomes a dragonborn and a half-elf can be sandwiched with a half-orc to create a orc-elf hyrbid that SHOULD NOT BE!

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A hybrid system would require races to be purposely built for the hybrid system to work.

The current races lack any uniformity to make hybrids.


In addition, it would do so at the expense of making non-hybrid characters more complicated to make. A brand-new D&D player may become confused by the additional terminology and formatting required.

The solution, therefore, is to push racial design in a direction that anticipates hybridization, but keeps the "seams" hidden. Then, in a later publication that focuses on races and racial abilities, introduce the PHB races in "halves," so they can be spliced together as the player sees fit.

It would require much greater uniformity of racial abilities and formatting than we have now, but it's totally doable.


An advantage to this system would be that it standardizes the racial mods and abilities so they are balanced and uniform.  It would create a template for later races and prevent power drift.


It's virtually impossible to balance racial mods.  This becomes all the more true when classes grow to include virtually every stat as primary stats for at least one class.  Is Str a more valuable stat than Cha?  For a fighter, sure, but not for a Cha-based caster.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

A hybrid system would require races to be purposely built for the hybrid system to work.

The current races lack any uniformity to make hybrids.


In addition, it would do so at the expense of making non-hybrid characters more complicated to make. A brand-new D&D player may become confused by the additional terminology and formatting required.

The solution, therefore, is to push racial design in a direction that anticipates hybridization, but keeps the "seams" hidden. Then, in a later publication that focuses on races and racial abilities, introduce the PHB races in "halves," so they can be spliced together as the player sees fit.

It would require much greater uniformity of racial abilities and formatting than we have now, but it's totally doable.


An advantage to this system would be that it standardizes the racial mods and abilities so they are balanced and uniform.  It would create a template for later races and prevent power drift.


It's virtually impossible to balance racial mods.  This becomes all the more true when classes grow to include virtually every stat as primary stats for at least one class.  Is Str a more valuable stat than Cha?  For a fighter, sure, but not for a Cha-based caster.


By Racial modifiers, I didn't mean ability score modifiers. I meant any modifiers to skills, weapons, etc. I am not a big proponent of ability score mods. I don't even think class should receive an ability score modifier.  It is unnecessary since players naturally put their highest ability score in the one most valuable to that class. Building the ability score into the original determination system is simpler.  Saves a step.
A hybrid system would require races to be purposely built for the hybrid system to work.

The current races lack any uniformity to make hybrids.


In addition, it would do so at the expense of making non-hybrid characters more complicated to make. A brand-new D&D player may become confused by the additional terminology and formatting required.

The solution, therefore, is to push racial design in a direction that anticipates hybridization, but keeps the "seams" hidden. Then, in a later publication that focuses on races and racial abilities, introduce the PHB races in "halves," so they can be spliced together as the player sees fit.

It would require much greater uniformity of racial abilities and formatting than we have now, but it's totally doable.


An advantage to this system would be that it standardizes the racial mods and abilities so they are balanced and uniform.  It would create a template for later races and prevent power drift.


It's virtually impossible to balance racial mods.  This becomes all the more true when classes grow to include virtually every stat as primary stats for at least one class.  Is Str a more valuable stat than Cha?  For a fighter, sure, but not for a Cha-based caster.


By Racial modifiers, I didn't mean ability score modifiers. I meant any modifiers to skills, weapons, etc. I am not a big proponent of ability score mods. I don't even think class should receive an ability score modifier.  It is unnecessary since players naturally put their highest ability score in the one most valuable to that class. Building the ability score into the original determination system is simpler.  Saves a step.


Ah, ok.  I get you now.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

If they release a "Bastards & Bloodlines" supplement for this edition, a system for creating new hybrid races should be a definite thing to include.

I don't often play weird races, but I've run into problems when I have, like if I want to be a half-dragon, half-orc. Obviously I am not half-human, half-orc, but the listing for a half-orc assumes that I am half-human.

Templates should, however, exist for things like vampires and lycanthropes that are not your bloodline but still act like a race.
Let´s imagine a love-hate relation between a (straight) metrosexual (cute femboy) half-elf ranger and a tomboy (but hot) half-orc shaman. A night they are too drunk... and nine months later...

The child would be a human with two bloodlines, elf and orc. 



 

"Say me what you're showing off for, and I'll say you what you lack!" (Spanish saying)

 

Book 13 Anaclet 23 Confucius said: "The Superior Man is in harmony but does not follow the crowd. The inferior man follows the crowd, but is not in harmony"

 

"In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of." - Confucius 

if a half race breads true and has it's own culture they should be a seperate entry.

if not they shuld be a subheader under another race for example, if half orcs don't bread true and live in human cociety they should be a sub header of the human race. 
Certainly true, but a lot of the traditional half-races in D&D don't have their own culture.  Half-Elves don't in most settings.  Ditto for Half-Orcs.  Each member of the "race" is presented as an island unto themselves, as Half-Orc communities are rare.

Usually you're presented with a character who tries to fit in with another culture.

This is why making a Half-Elf "race" with standardized "culture" traits is illogical, even ridiculous.   
"You can always judge a man by the quality of his enemies." -The Doctor, Remembrance of the Daleks
I'm fine with the core treating all hybrids as one race or the other for the sake of mechanical benefits, with specific hybrid rules released separately as optional content. 

Humans are deliberately given a nonspecific racial advantage to represent the tremendous amount of variation in the species compared to others, and I think they're mechanically flexible enough to stand in for most combinations.  If, on the other hand, the player wants the character to favor a specific parent race, they can use the racials for the other parent.


That also puts WotC on the hook for releasing orcs as a race, and I'm all about optional rules for monster races as player characters.  
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