Dragon Stompy

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For what ever reason I've been operating under the belief Trinisphere was banned in Legacy, but, as I discovered when someone pointed it out to me as I was working on a Vintage version, Trinisphere was restricted and in looking at it's legality, lo-and-behold, it's legal in Legacy.


4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
3 Arc-Slogger
2 Akroma, Angel of Fury


4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Seething Song


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain

Most of the list is par for the course.  8 Blood Moon effects, Trinisphere + Chalice to continue disrupting.  And mostly just firing off turn 1 disruption/win-con into turn 2 re-enforce board position.

Mostly I'm looking for advice on my creature base, since I might just be being cute with Akroma and the deck might even be viable right now.  I only have 1 viable Legacy deck right now, a budgetish (mostly Shocklands over the good duals) Zoo list, but Zoo seems to be a pretty poor choice right now.  This would only really require me to drop the cash/all my good trade fodder on the manabase and a few other bits and pieces.

My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
I'm not 100% on Arc-Slogger.  I never really liked him even though he was somewhat popular in some circles. 

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

I also don't like Arc-Slogger.  Or Akroma.  I think you only want creatures that you can cast off a single Seething Song.  I honestly can't think of what would be good.  Maybe Demigod of Revenge or Thundermaw Hellkite.
Slogger turns all those cards I'll never draw into damage.  He's solid for this strategy.  As for Akroma, I grabed her mostly as bait/decoy for Raiders, but her morph is only off of Song by 1, so I could cast her turn 1 as a 2/2 then morph and swing on turn 2.  It's cute, still need more testing to see how viable it is.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
bump?
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
I think you only want creatures that you can cast off a single Seething Song.  I honestly can't think of what would be good.  Maybe Demigod of Revenge or Thundermaw Hellkite.



Demigod is awful in this deck. Such a colour-intensive card in a deck with 8 colourless mana sources? You might as well cover your ears in advance for all the laughter your opponent is gonna throw in your face. Although he's probably still reeling from the laughing fit over seeing you play Dragon Stompy in this day and age.

Slogger is okay, but I only ever ran two.

As for other options:

Phyrexian Revoker is hit with Chalice, but it's still too useful to ignore, especially since Planeswalkers don't care if you lock down their mana, etc.

Moltensteel Dragon is RPD 5-8. It's not all that great, but it's better than Akroma.

Thundermaw is worth considering, I guess.

Depending too much on bad mana boosting is what seperates bad DS players from the good ones.

The deck still sucks because there's no good red card that costs 2R. And for the record, Taurean Mauler is not a good card. It sucks. Like you do for thinking that it's a good card. Yes, you. The guy who was about to type up a post defending it.

The deck also sucks. Remember earlier when I talked about seperating good DS players from bad ones? I was lying. They're all bad. Good players don't play DS anymore.

I love this deck to death, but it sucks. Instead of playing a deck that sucks, sell the cards, then go out and buy all the Delvers in the world. Sit on them for a month, then sell them back at ridiculous prices. After this, go out to a fancy restaurant with that girl you always liked but were too shy to ask out. Even if she ends up dumping her glass of wine on your face, you will still feel better than after trying to play this deck at a tournament.
I think you only want creatures that you can cast off a single Seething Song.  I honestly can't think of what would be good.  Maybe Demigod of Revenge or Thundermaw Hellkite.



Demigod is awful in this deck. Such a colour-intensive card in a deck with 8 colourless mana sources? You might as well cover your ears in advance for all the laughter your opponent is gonna throw in your face. Although he's probably still reeling from the laughing fit over seeing you play Dragon Stompy in this day and age.

You are aware that, with eight Blood Moon cards, your non-basics don't stay non-mountains past like...turn two at most.  Turn one you're either casting Trinisphere or Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon to wreck your opponent's first few turns.  After that, there's enough free red mana laying around to drop a Demigod or a Hellkite on turn three while they are still struggling to cast spells.

Yes, this deck isn't a fan of Force of Will, but no deck is.  I've run a few tests on a modified version of this and I seem to have the game pretty much wrapped up by turn four or five with enough disruption on the board to keep my opponent from comboing off or doing anything meaningful.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

You are aware that, with eight Blood Moon cards, your non-basics don't stay non-mountains past like...turn two at most.  Turn one you're either casting Trinisphere or Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon to wreck your opponent's first few turns.  After that, there's enough free red mana laying around to drop a Demigod or a Hellkite on turn three while they are still struggling to cast spells.



First of all, that still makes you painfully reliant on bad mana ramping. This is already a weakness of the deck, pushing it further than absolutely necessary will only make the deck worse than it already is.

Secondly, if you're dropping Moon effects immediately in every game you play, then you're doing something wrong. Plenty of times you want/need the extra mana for various reasons, the most common being that you want to put down Trini or Chalice and lock down your opponent with those first. Especially a double Chalice can give you some serious advantage early game. The Revoker I mentioned is also good to drop when you still have lots of mana. Or even a big creature before you lock down the mana, although this is more rare since it leaves you open to getting sucker punched and isn't a lock piece.

There's a reason why no one plays Demigod in this deck. It's just not good to commit so heavily to the chance of both drawing a Song and then not having it disrupted in any way. And if you're giving up most of your good mana boosting incredibly early in the game like that, unless you're under pressure to do so, then you're screwing yourself for no reason.

Yes, this deck isn't a fan of Force of Will, but no deck is.



Most decks don't empty their hand to make one big play that can be stopped by two untapped Islands. The problem isn't that the deck is hurt by FoW, it's that the deck is especially vulnerable to it. This is like the difference between Godsire and Tarmogoyf. Both can be said to die to every piece of removal under the sun, but there's a difference between how much you will cry when your enemy pulls a Doom Blade on each of the two, because you already dedicated all your resources to getting out Godsire and now you have nothing left. Same situation.
Most decks don't empty their hand to make one big play that can be stopped by two untapped Islands. The problem isn't that the deck is hurt by FoW, it's that the deck is especially vulnerable to it. This is like the difference between Godsire and Tarmogoyf. Both can be said to die to every piece of removal under the sun, but there's a difference between how much you will cry when your enemy pulls a Doom Blade on each of the two, because you already dedicated all your resources to getting out Godsire and now you have nothing left. Same situation.

Welcome to the thrill of "all in" style decks?

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

I was merely explaining why it really, really hates counterspells and relying on Song, etc. for one big play is often a bad idea. I mean, I have swung for 22 with RPD, but I have also cried myself to sleep when my Arc-Slogger got countered while the mean poopy-head blue player had 4 life left.
Akroma is definitly getting kicked to the curb. I hadn't considered Moltensteel Dragon.

Revoker is solid, but I don't know.  Blood Moon effects have been making it pretty hard for the decks I've been testing against to ever see for JtMS.  Maybe SB fodder to hate on Aether Vial.

I have been looking into running Demigod over Arc-Slogger.

No one exspects this deck any more, and were I play manabases are very greedy and the only deck that I'm concerned about that doesn't use a bunch of non-basics is Mono-Blue Fish, but SB Ratchet Bombs set to 2, and Chalice set to 1 puts them off all their creatures.

And for the record, I don't have a special girl I was to shy to ask out.  I dated her, proposed, and got married to her.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
And for the record, I don't have a special girl I was to shy to ask out.  I dated her, proposed, and got married to her.



How does she feel about the fact that her husband is going to get bullied for playing a bad deck at the next tournament he attends?
Quick question, Anubuss; I know that this is a pretty "all-in" strategy that this deck runs, but what does the sideboard look like?  What do you side in for the Blood Moon/Magus suite if they are irrelevant due to the opponent playing too many basic lands?  Or do you keep them in to help your own manabase? 

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Quick question, Anubuss; I know that this is a pretty "all-in" strategy that this deck runs, but what does the sideboard look like?  What do you side in for the Blood Moon/Magus suite if they are irrelevant due to the opponent playing too many basic lands?  Or do you keep them in to help your own manabase? 



SB so far is mostly just Ratchet Bombs.  Trinisphere/Chalice offer pretty good disruption, and Ratchet Bomb lets me remove anything that might have slipped through early on.  I'll probably run a set of Red Elemental Blasts to help me VS Fish.  Revoker also will probably fill in some of the currently empty SB.  I usually leave a set of Blood Moon Effects in (mostly Magus, cuz having an attacker beats having an enchantment), so it's not like I usually need to do a big replace.  I've been lucky that most of what I've been going against has been lots of non-Red, non-Basic land mana bases.

If I do well in a few more events I should have enough set aside to look into getting some Lotus Petals for the deck.

And for the record, I don't have a special girl I was to shy to ask out.  I dated her, proposed, and got married to her.



How does she feel about the fact that her husband is going to get bullied for playing a bad deck at the next tournament he attends?



She probably won't care as long as I beat every Show and Tell deck I come accross, that way she can feel some vindication since she always seems to get beat by Turn 1 Show and Tell.  And it's not like we have the budget to dole out for 4 FoW.

However, it's always satisfying to see everyone that poked fun at my deck, and notice they all lost to me (which is what seems to happen ~80% of the time).

Also, we're both used to it anyway since I was running a budget Zoo list (with 4 Goyf and Shocklands) until I simply got tired of getting owned by Show and Tell and strangely, Landstill (once a bread and butter match up).

My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
If I do well in a few more events I should have enough set aside to look into getting some Lotus Petals for the deck.

The version I'm testing of your deck runs four Lotus Petals.  It's wonderful.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Quick question, Anubuss; I know that this is a pretty "all-in" strategy that this deck runs, but what does the sideboard look like?  What do you side in for the Blood Moon/Magus suite if they are irrelevant due to the opponent playing too many basic lands?  Or do you keep them in to help your own manabase? 



Spinal Villain is unquestionably the coolest sideboard tech that this, or indeed any, deck can run. I have four in mint condition, just because of this deck.

Other than that, this deck has pretty bad SB options. Here's a run-down:

Boil
Flashfires
Anarchy
Goblin Ruinblaster
Pyroblast
Red Elemental Blast
Phyrexian Revoker if you don't maindeck it.
Blood Moon if you sideboard some of them, which I strongly recommend for versatility.
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Koth of the Hammer (Pffffsh, yeah, sure)
Ruination

And probably some other cards that I forgot. It's been a long time since I played this game at all.

EDIT:

SB so far is mostly just Ratchet Bombs.



Yup, there it was. The big one that I forgot.
If I do well in a few more events I should have enough set aside to look into getting some Lotus Petals for the deck.

The version I'm testing of your deck runs four Lotus Petals.  It's wonderful.




So you can see why I want to throw them in.

@Renasce

I now need to get some Spinal Villain.  I never knew it exsisted.  Certainly looks like it'll wo wonders VS Fish for me.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
However, it's always satisfying to see everyone that poked fun at my deck, and notice they all lost to me (which is what seems to happen ~80% of the time).



This used to be my favourite deck back when New Phyrexia just came out and control Zoo without red was a bold, new strategy which I was a very early adopter of. You may now know that deck as Maverick and an abomination. I agree. Just like I agree that this deck has become a laughing stock. I wanted to play it in Modern, but they banned everything there, so it's the choice between a balanced format where every good card is banned or... Legacy. Yeah.

Legacy has just been unplayable post-Survival. I'm not even sure why, Survival was a good card to ban. There was just one deck dominating everything. Banning Survival lead to a much more diverse metagame. Now there's three decks.
I now need to get some Spinal Villain.  I never knew it exsisted.  Certainly looks like it'll do wonders VS Fish for me.

They're $15.00 at Star City right now.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

I now need to get some Spinal Villain.  I never knew it exsisted.  Certainly looks like it'll wo wonders VS Fish for me.



I never understood the design philosophy of Fish.

"Hey let's build a blue creature deck!"

"Yeah! Woo!"

"And hey, wouldn't it be great if it ran zero removal?"

"Yeah! Awesome! Let's go!"
They're $15.00 at Star City right now.



Really?

My entire playset was that much.

I bought from a smaller site, of course, but still.
I now need to get some Spinal Villain.  I never knew it exsisted.  Certainly looks like it'll wo wonders VS Fish for me.



I never understood the design philosophy of Fish.

"Hey let's build a blue creature deck!"

"Yeah! Woo!"

"And hey, wouldn't it be great if it ran zero removal?"

"Yeah! Awesome! Let's go!"



It's more along the lines of:

"So, I have 4 FoW....but not much else and I have some money to spend...."
"Mono-Blue Control?"
"I guess...but that's terrible....I do have these Aether Vials..."
"Merfolk have a lot of ways to have Lords, and they all cost 2."
"Ok, we'll throw in come counter magic and lots of Fish and rock and roll."
"Add Standstill."
"Duh."


My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
I never understood the design philosophy of Fish.

"Hey let's build a blue creature deck!"

"Yeah! Woo!"

"And hey, wouldn't it be great if it ran zero removal?"

"Yeah! Awesome! Let's go!"



Merfolk does run a few pieces of removal (around 2 Dismembers, a few Submerges and Jittes postboard). It doesn't run more, because in matchups against the decks that Merfolk is supposed to prey on, removal is actually redundant. Blue based control decks won't usually be able to block Merfolk because of Islandwalk, and combo decks have no blockers, period. Merfolk tends to struggle against decks that aren't combo and don't play blue, but any blockers can still be tapped down by Reejerey.
In Legacy, Blue is the best color. Let's punish blue, in Modern. And they listened!
Merfolk does run a few pieces of removal (around 2 Dismembers, a few Submerges and Jittes postboard). It doesn't run more, because in matchups against the decks that Merfolk is supposed to prey on, removal is actually redundant. Blue based control decks won't usually be able to block Merfolk because of Islandwalk, and combo decks have no blockers, period. Merfolk tends to struggle against decks that aren't combo and don't play blue, but any blockers can still be tapped down by Reejerey.



I know, I know. As someone once put it, Fish is the fat kid in gym class. Keeps winning competitions because it's underestimated by everyone due to how it looks.
Bump.

Here's what I'm currently working with:


4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Moltensteel Dragon


4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Seething Song


4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Mountain

SB is up in the air until I polish up the MD.

If anyone cares to see the work of a frustrated man, check out my Modern port of Dragon Stompy.  I'm seriously getting annoyed by Seething Songs abrupt ban in Modern.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Didn't some versions of this run Deus of Calamity at one point?
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
I know before Extended became Standard+ they used Deus, but it's 5 mana and lacks evasion.  I have no problem getting my beat sticks down on turn 1 when the most costly is and 4 life.

The Extended AiR builds also used Demigod of Revenge.  With Moltensteel and Pit, all I really need is to watch out for Paths, Dissmembers and other removal.  And my disruption is usually enough to  stave off interference for the 2 to 3 attacks I usually need to finish it. 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Yeah, I'm using Demigod of Revenge and Thundermaw Hellkite as my main beaters in the version I'm testing.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Can you post the build your testing so I can see how the 2 compare?
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Mine's a bit more AiR than your list is, but it seems to get the job done in a timely manner.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Here's my latest build, I've almost got it finished.

Creatures:
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Moltensteel Dragon

Spells:
2 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Seething Song

Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
6 Mountain

Had to switch away from Chrome Mox since I was getting really heavy on artifacts.

SB is looking like:
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Ratchet Bomb
no idea about the last 7 open slots
 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
I was kind of hoping for some new goodies from the RTR block to help out my build, but I didn't really see any. 

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

I was kind of hoping for some new goodies from the RTR block to help out my build, but I didn't really see any. 



Dragon Stompy desperately needs a good red creature that costs exactly . That alone would make the deck much better.
is being too optimistic Moltensteel Dragon is probably as close as we will see for a long while.

Update List


4 x
4 x
4 x
4 x
4 x

1 x
1 x Chrome Mox
4 x
4 x
4 x
4 x
4 x

4 x
4 x
4 x
6 x Mountain

4 x
4 x
4 x Thorn of Amethyst
3 x Lodestone Golem

 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.