Gatecrash questions - simic

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Biomass mutation: X-G/U-G/U

ceatures you control become X/X until end of turn.


Now, assuming I have 3 creatures out with evolve, they are all 0/1, but one has 2 counters on it, and another has 1 counter on it. I play this card for 3cmc, making all my creatures 1/1 until end of turn. However, since they have the counters are those counters added before or after? in short, do i have 3 1/1's or a 1/1, a 2/2, and a 3/3?




Prime speaker Zegana.

Prime speaker enters the battlefield with X counters on it, where X is the greatest power amongst creatures you control.


Is it correct to assume that this ability triggers BEFORE applying the evolve counters from her entering the battlefield? As the evolve is triggered when the card hits the battlefield, but this ability makes her enter the battlefield as such, aka just before the evolve kicks in?



Simic keyrune.

Same as the other keyrunes, turns into a creature.

Does this creature "enter the battlefield" when you transform it? Do you get evolution counters off transforming it?

A) The third option - 1/1, 2/2, 3/3. Biomass Mutation basically overwrites the p/t on the card; the counters are then added on top

B) Zeggy confuses me slightly (replacement ability vs. triggered ability) so I'll leave that for someone else.

C) No, it doesn't count as entering the battlefield, unfortunately - the permanent was already on the battlefield, it just changed types.
You're correct with Zegana.

Zegana should already have the counters upon hitting the field, and Evolve should only care about a creature's p/t when the Evolve ability resolves.
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Biomass mutation: X-G/U-G/U

ceatures you control become X/X until end of turn.


Now, assuming I have 3 creatures out with evolve, they are all 0/1, but one has 2 counters on it, and another has 1 counter on it. I play this card for 3cmc, making all my creatures 1/1 until end of turn. However, since they have the counters are those counters added before or after? in short, do i have 3 1/1's or a 1/1, a 2/2, and a 3/3?



Biomass Mutation (as well as Humility, Vhati il-Dal, and Godhead of Awe) rewrites the base power and toughness. Anything else that modifies that is added on top.

Prime speaker Zegana.

Prime speaker enters the battlefield with X counters on it, where X is the greatest power amongst creatures you control.


Is it correct to assume that this ability triggers BEFORE applying the evolve counters from her entering the battlefield? As the evolve is triggered when the card hits the battlefield, but this ability makes her enter the battlefield as such, aka just before the evolve kicks in?



Yes. That's why Aquastrand Spider enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters. (If it got them afterward, it'd die right away.)

Simic keyrune.

Same as the other keyrunes, turns into a creature.

Does this creature "enter the battlefield" when you transform it? Do you get evolution counters off transforming it?



No, it only enters the battlefield when it's first cast, as an artifact but not a creature.
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More simic madness!

Is it correct to assume that the wording on Master Biomancer : "Each creature you control enters the battlefield with a number of additional +1/+1 counters on it equal to Master Biomancer's power and as a Mutant in addition to its other types." gives counters regardless of whether the creature would enter with counters on it or not? Hey, some opponents will argue about the "additional" bit of the card.


Secondly about this dearly lovable card; Is it correct to assume that evolve takes into account the total power of the creature, and not just the base power of it?

Example, I have a 1/2 cloudfin raptor (U, 0/1, flying, evolve) in play, and Master biomancer. I play a fathom mage (1/1, evolve, draw a card whenever a counter is placed on it.). Would the cloudfin raptor checking for evolve count the fathom mage as a 1/1 or 3/3, since it enters the battlefield with 2 counters on it from the Biomancer?

Also, in the same example, is it correct that said Fathom mage would let me draw 2 cards when it enters the battlefield, or do the counters from Master Biomancer not trigger this, as it enters the battlefield with the counters already on it, rather than having them placed on her?
More simic madness!

Is it correct to assume that the wording on Master Biomancer : "Each creature you control enters the battlefield with a number of additional +1/+1 counters on it equal to Master Biomancer's power and as a Mutant in addition to its other types." gives counters regardless of whether the creature would enter with counters on it or not? Hey, some opponents will argue about the "additional" bit of the card.

Yes, that is correct.  Abilities that add counters when a permanent enters the battlefield tend to be cumulative.

Secondly about this dearly lovable card; Is it correct to assume that evolve takes into account the total power of the creature, and not just the base power of it?

All effects look at the final characteristics of objects, with two exceptions; copy effects (which take into account only earlier copy effects and some replacement effects which affect the characteristics of objects as they enter the battlefield - such as the Master Biomancer adding the Mutant creature type, which means a Clone of the now-Mutant creature will be a Mutant, even if the Biomancer has left the battlefield) and abilities which test the characteristics of the object they apply to, which check at the point they apply. The latter making a difference is so rare as to be almost mythic now.

Example, I have a 1/2 cloudfin raptor (U, 0/1, flying, evolve) in play, and Master biomancer. I play a fathom mage (1/1, evolve, draw a card whenever a counter is placed on it.). Would the cloudfin raptor checking for evolve count the fathom mage as a 1/1 or 3/3, since it enters the battlefield with 2 counters on it from the Biomancer?

3/3. Thus, the Raptor's Evolve ability will trigger.

Also, in the same example, is it correct that said Fathom mage would let me draw 2 cards when it enters the battlefield, or do the counters from Master Biomancer not trigger this, as it enters the battlefield with the counters already on it, rather than having them placed on her?

If a permanent enters the battlefield with counters from a replacement effect, the counters are placed on the permanent. From the CR: -
121.6. If a spell or ability refers to a counter being “placed” on a permanent, it means putting a counter on that permanent while it’s on the battlefield, or that permanent entering the battlefield with a counter on it as the result of an effect (see rule 614.1c).

Consequently, you get to draw two cards.
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