Beating hard control

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Hi I'm relatively new to the magic scene and I'm having a lot of fun. I mostly play just casual games with friends which include lots of big multiplayer games, which are a blast and I love them. But when I pack up to go to Friday night Magic I end up just getting frustrated by all the hard control and life gain. I built a super agro red/black deck with a lot of cheap cards to do lots of damage quickly but I just couldn't compete with Azorius charms and sphinx's revelations. The meta around me sees a lot of hard control and I usually do alright going 2 and 2 most often, but I always lose matches to those control decks. I have slaughter games but I didn't draw it to exile the charms or snapcasters. Other than that what kind of deck can compete with the level of control thats about with the current meta?
You have two options: Go over or under. 
with red aggro decks if you haven't won by turn 4, you've lost

so work on that
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Slaughter games is a dead draw considering you got a rakdos aggro deck, like enigma said, you want to win by turn 4 (5), that turn 4 slaughter game is just slowing you down. Aggro vs control is all about killing the control deck before he can control you.... DERP!. It's pretty much like flipping a coin, head or tail you win or lose. That turn 4 mana is better spent on something like burn spells or a 3 cmc with haste creature followed by fling for the kill.

Flinging a Geralf's messenger is quite an evil move.
I love trolls Dont hate me because I'm blunt and you cannot handle it
You stop them from stabilizing (removing your threat, establishing a source of Card Advantage and probably gaining a bunch of life in the process), which buys each of your turns to kill them aggressively afterwards.  Or you establish your own CA source and "grind it out".  Quick goldfishing decks would rather do the former, and slower, more brutal aggro decks can do both pretty handily. Midrange decks are relegated to the "grind them out" plan, for better or for worse, and Tempo decks specialize in preventing stabilization.
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You have two options: Go over or under. 


This.
with red aggro decks if you haven't won by turn 4, you've lost

so work on that


That's not entirely true.  Current b/r aggro lists run thundermaw and zealous conscripts for lategame ways to push in damage, because the one-shot lifegain popular in the current meta (sphinx's creed:  revelations, swagtusk) drags games out.

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
You have two options: Go over or under. 



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If you're playing aggro (as in a deck where everything is either a land, a threat, or removal, and it all has CMC 3 or less), all you really need to do is keep slinging threats. Your creatures can use Cavern of Souls to stop counters, too. You'll probably want 4x Cavern in any deck anyway.

Basically, spam threats until one sticks long enough to drop him to 0.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Play small creatures. Fast creatures. Don't play conditional cards, don't play cards that need another card to work (enchantments or to not just be dead) and beat face. We're (tragically) moving away from it, but 9 1 drops, 8 2 drops, 3 balls to the wall 3 drops and a similar burn suite used to be a thing, yo.


Or just draft. It's my solution and I'd naturally be the control player.


edit: unless I'm drafting. In which case my odds of victory seem to entirely based on on burning question: am I going to eat babies tonight? 
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
Go ask the people in the standard forum for help listing out your deck completely. You also kinda need to know what an aggro deck looks like. If it does not goldfish by the 4th turn you are doing something wrong. Many good aggro decks can goldfish on the third turn and rarely you will find one that can goldfish on the second turn. I never play an aggro deck that cannot do it by the third.

Note that 20- 2/1 creatures for one cmc do it on the 4th turn if you hit the first three land drops.

Here is my mox goblin deck as an example, it is not standard legal.

Mox Goblins
4 memnite
4 Court Homunculus
4 goblin bushwhacker
4 perilous myr
4 Porcelain Legionnaire

4 kuldotha rebirth
4 intangible virtue
4 lightning bolt
4 dragon fodder
2 goblin grenade
1 devastating summons

4 sacred foundry
4 ancient den
4 great furnace
4 gemstone mine
3 mox opal
2 boros garrison


You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
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You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
You have two options: Go over or under. 



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Bueno! 
Turn 2 kill in standard? Is it possible? I dont believe so, so stop giving him false hope and unrealistics goals. You might be able to get a turn 3 kill in standard but then again, you'll have the perfect hand and they'll have nothing, also very unlikely. So aiming for a turn 4-5 kill is the solution. 3 CMC is pretty much the highest you can do. Also in that aggro deck listen above, the boros land is a bad land, you cannot afford anything that enter the battlefield tapped.
I love trolls Dont hate me because I'm blunt and you cannot handle it
I mostly play just casual games with friends which include lots of big multiplayer games, which are a blast and I love them. But when I pack up to go to Friday night Magic I end up just getting frustrated by all the hard control and life gain.

While I can't give you the same level of useful advice as the experienced Magic players who have commented here already, I noticed something that seemed odd in this part of your post.

I could see you encountering almost unbeatable hard control when playing casual games, since cards from any part of the history of Magic can be found there - and not all players in casual games take the spirit of 'casual' seriously.

But specifically because hard control is so frustrating to many players, Wizards has been changing the kinds of card available to Blue over the years, for example replacing Counterspell by Cancel. Thus, I'd been under the illusion that, by now, control decks were no longer riding roughshod over Standard and intimidating new players.

Obviously, I could simply be mistaken about that.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

If you lower the standards for what control allows you just make it take longer for folks to realize that they need to try if they want to beat it.

Let's just errata cavern to be a spellshaper (albeit still a land), reprint counterspell, sinkhole, price of progress and stp before moving the game back to one where incremental advantages mean something. It'll make being on the draw better and we'll still have this conversation just as often. I don't see what could possibly go wrong.
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
You have two options: Go over or under. 



Brought to you by the Dora the Explorer school of Magic.


Bueno! 



Kids' shows. Why we'll never have purple. (And if we do, it won't have the creature type "dinosaur".)
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

That phrase, of course, is as obvious a tip-off for sarcasm as a smiley.

But it seems obvious to me what could go wrong, even if not to some readers of your post. The Magic player base could cease to grow by leaps and bounds, as more new players get frustrated by meeting control decks, causing grave dismay on the part of Hasbro shareholders.

How can we, in some ingenious and clever way, make just about everybody happy, by having Magic go in two opposite directions at once? That's the kind of question I think we should be working on.

Here's the kind of solution I propose:

Wizards, in addition to having a black-bordered Core Set coming out every year, and three black-bordered sets as part of a block expansion, should also have a purple-bordered Core Set every two years, and three purple-bordered sets as part of a block expansion each year.

Purple-bordered cards would be made available in tournament decks instead of booster packs to reduce confusion. (A tournament deck is basically a quad-sized booster pack.)

Printing a card in a current randomly-distributed product with a purple border provides it with legality in Classic Standard, and thus with current and future legality in Classic Extended and Classic Modern, but as far as Standard, Extended, and Modern are concerned, it might as well have been printed in a Duel Decks or Commander product.

Otherwise, purple-bordered cards, like white-bordered cards and black-bordered cards, are fully tournament-legal.

Note that since having a purple border only affects current legality, one could almost actually just use a white border on those cards as the distinguishing factor. (Eighth Edition and Ninth Edition would have to be explicitly mentioned in the description of Modern in that case.)

So the alternate Core Set would include reprints of cards like Counterspell and Dark Ritual, and thus the Classic formats would have the feel of old-style Magic. Of course, it's possible that it might be useful to exclude the most recent cards with their more powerful creatures to have a balanced game; this would complicate the criteria for format legality for the Classic formats in much the same way as using white borders instead of purple borders complicates the criteria for Modern format legality.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

Oh green red infect could turn 2 in standard for awhile. It still can in modern. The combination of assault strobe , rancor and mutagenic growth is just lethal.

I should also point out the deck I listed can 2nd turn goldfish on an absolute god draw.

great furnace, memnite, mox opal, kuldotha rebirth the opal, another mox opal kicked goblin bushwhacker attack for 12. second turn intangible virtue attack for 8. If I ran 4 opals it would be more common.
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
Try playing a game from the other side of the table. Next time, ask if you can try out the control deck for a game or two. That will help you understand its weaknesses.

When you can't see the control deck's hand, they can seem unbeatable. However, if you know what they have, you might find that they're not nearly as strong as they look.
Oh green red infect could turn 2 in standard for awhile. It still can in modern. The combination of assault strobe , rancor and mutagenic growth is just lethal.

I should also point out the deck I listed can 2nd turn goldfish on an absolute god draw.

great furnace, memnite, mox opal, kuldotha rebirth the opal, another mox opal kicked goblin bushwhacker attack for 12. second turn intangible virtue attack for 8. If I ran 4 opals it would be more common.



That assumes your opponent doesn't have a one-drop. You can avoid that by going RUG with Blighted Agent, but then you have to deal with removal. And makes it t3.

You'd be surprised at the wackiness you can do. My first game when Scars became legal, I did this:

t1 plains, Quest for the Holy Relic
t2 Seachrome Coast, Memnite, Glint Hawk, same Memnite, another Hawk, same Memnite.
t3 island, pop Quest for Argentum Armor on the Hawk, swing for 11.
t4 swing for 11, gg

(Note: The deck used blue for control elements.)
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
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