Which Guild Leaders do You Think Will Survive This Block, Storywise?

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As the title mentions, I get this distinct feeling not all of the guild leaders will survive what comes next, when the third Ravnica block comes out, so, following contexts so far, who does everyone bet bites the bullet? There are four paruns (original signers of the guild pact), still surviving, that we know of. Mat'Selesnya, Obzedat, Rakdos, and Niv-Mizzet. And though, Mat'Selesnya is the worldsoul, she is not the guild leader.

With that said, I don't expect as many unseatings as there were last time.

Azorius: Will Live
Boros: Will Live
Orzhov: Will continue, not dying
Selesnya: Will not survive.
Izzet: Will not survive.
Simic: Will live.
Dimir: I feel this one will always die, sort of like, how in Harry Potter, the defense of the Dark Arts teacher, never survives to host multiple years.
Rakdos: Survive, but goes back into slumber 
Golgari: Will not survive, somehow succeeded by Vraska, then sub-succeeded by someone else.
Gruul: The Gruul are fractured anyway. Borborygmos is simply the leader of the largest clan. He hasn't even been seen directly in any of the stories. Will probably live.
 
I think Isperia will die. I think Rakdos will live. I think Trostani will die; I remember their flavor article talking about how corrupt a lot of Selesnyan officials have become. Niv-Mizzet will never die. Too few immortal characters that WotC has access to nowadays. Jarad will probably die. It's too acceptable for their guild for him to survive. I don't know about the new five though. Obzedat is fine, but the other four I haven't decided.
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A lot of the flavor we have so far about Borborygmos is that he's now getting old and facing frequent challenges for leadership. He's a likely casualty if we do have any. Poor Bobo. 
A lot of the flavor we have so far about Borborygmos is that he's now getting old and facing frequent challenges for leadership. He's a likely casualty if we do have any. Poor Bobo. 



Thought of that as well, i think he will be unseated, the Gruul way.
Jarad was already killed by Lyzolda in Dissension. Didn't stop him for long though.
The necromacy of Ravnica is quite strong, even Svogthir (parun of the golgari) might still be active, his fate after Kraj's rampage is unknown.
The Obzedat has the same "handicap" concerning death. They might retire from their leader position though.

Lazav will fall I'm quite sure, but might just be replaced by someone behind him who claims to be the true leader all along.
Borborygmos is ready for the reaper but I hope he will make some big last fight.
Borborygmos is all but guaranteed to snuff it with the background information we've been getting. He's old, weak, and in line for being turned into so much gory paste.

Niv-Mizzet is tricky. He's incredibly badass and I don't think many people would be happy to see him die. But with him (probably) featuring prominently in the last set, it doesn't bode well for him. Unless he finds a way to ascend to (even more) godlike power.

The Rakdos slumbering trick was good once, but I doubt we'll see it again. If we do, he'll stay slumbering through most of the next block and then emerge as a villain instead of an anarchist.

Lazav's in the same boat as Niv, but he's less titular, less beloved, and more squishy if pushes come to shoves. He's doomed.

The Sphinx, The Angel, The Lich, and The Mermaid are all boring and ultimately replacable. Could go either way.

The Ghost Council... I don't know. It's been implied (I think) that the Izzet (or was it someone else) are meddling with the ghostly realm. It's entirely possible something big could happen and wipe the smug grins off those ghostly faces. I'd think that would be fun.

The Dryad would be in the same boat as the other generic characters, if it weren't for their connection to the Worldsoul. I suspect that her fate will go along with that of the parun itself. I don't know whether good ol' Mat'Selesnya is going to reveal itself in a more tangible form, fade into oblivion, or be boring and go back to its old strength, but I hope it does something to shake up Ravnica either way.
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Borborygmos is all but guaranteed to snuff it with the background information we've been getting. He's old, weak, and in line for being turned into so much gory paste.

Niv-Mizzet is tricky. He's incredibly badass and I don't think many people would be happy to see him die. But with him (probably) featuring prominently in the last set, it doesn't bode well for him. Unless he finds a way to ascend to (even more) godlike power.

The Rakdos slumbering trick was good once, but I doubt we'll see it again. If we do, he'll stay slumbering through most of the next block and then emerge as a villain instead of an anarchist.

Lazav's in the same boat as Niv, but he's less titular, less beloved, and more squishy if pushes come to shoves. He's doomed.

The Sphinx, The Angel, The Lich, and The Mermaid are all boring and ultimately replacable. Could go either way.

The Ghost Council... I don't know. It's been implied (I think) that the Izzet (or was it someone else) are meddling with the ghostly realm. It's entirely possible something big could happen and wipe the smug grins off those ghostly faces. I'd think that would be fun.

The Dryad would be in the same boat as the other generic characters, if it weren't for their connection to the Worldsoul. I suspect that her fate will go along with that of the parun itself. I don't know whether good ol' Mat'Selesnya is going to reveal itself in a more tangible form, fade into oblivion, or be boring and go back to its old strength, but I hope it does something to shake up Ravnica either way.




I agree with your evaluations. However, to be a bit more specific here is how I'm leaning ordering by strength of how strongly I feel that the guild leader will die.

Guild leaders
Gruul - dead 85%
Dimir - dead 65%
Rakdos - dead 60%
Boros - dead 60%
Golgari - dead 60%
Azorius - dead 50%
Orzhov - dead 50%
Simic - dead 50%
Selesnya - dead 50%
Izzet - dead 45%

I don't think any of them are very "safe" and my guess is that five or more of them will die.


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Azorius: Live: Why would anybody kill her.
Orzhov: Die: He is already losing his ghostly senses.
Dimir: Die: Same exact reason as coralus stated.
Izzet: Live: He is too intelligent to be killed.
Rakdos: Die: A massive revolt will start to take place the next time he goes to slumber.
Golgari: Die: The underholes are too rotten for anyone to survive for long.
Gruul: Die: He will be succesfully challenged as he gets weaker.
Boros: Die: She is taking so many risks and 1 of them is bound to go wrong.
Selesnya: Live: She is regenerating to fast to die.
Simic: Live: Is always the most powerful of the Simic due to the adaption.

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Well look at who died last time. The schemers and direct enemies of the schemers.

Anyone who isn't active attacking other guilds or isn't one foot out the door will survive.
The rest are goners.

At least five of the seven the black or white guid leaders will die. Borbo will be challenged.

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
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How can you predict any of this? Worthless is the only thing that comes to mind. 
How can you predict any of this? Worthless is the only thing that comes to mind. 




Have you ever been waiting for a book sequal or a movie sequal and speculated on how the next book or movie would be and what plot twists there might be? It's fun to speculate.
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How can you predict any of this? Worthless is the only thing that comes to mind. 




Have you ever been waiting for a book sequal or a movie sequal and speculated on how the next book or movie would be and what plot twists there might be? It's fun to speculate.


That should go into the plot and storylines forum then (does that even exist anymore?). This forum isn't about baseless speculation (although most people believe that). 
How can you predict any of this? Worthless is the only thing that comes to mind. 




Have you ever been waiting for a book sequal or a movie sequal and speculated on how the next book or movie would be and what plot twists there might be? It's fun to speculate.


That should go into the plot and storylines forum then (does that even exist anymore?). This forum isn't about baseless speculation (although most people believe that). 



Well it's not wholly baseless. I mean we have the flavor articles, the stories from ravnica's past etc... Who knows maybe we'll even get a spoiler in flavor text on some card indicating that a guild leader will perish. We certainly don't want to discuss those types of spoilers in other sections of the forums.
Don't be too smart to have fun
How can you predict any of this? Worthless is the only thing that comes to mind. 




Have you ever been waiting for a book sequal or a movie sequal and speculated on how the next book or movie would be and what plot twists there might be? It's fun to speculate.


That should go into the plot and storylines forum then (does that even exist anymore?). This forum isn't about baseless speculation (although most people believe that). 



I'm sorry, I was under the impression that this was Future Card and Set Speculation. 
Without knowing where the story goes in Gatecrash, this thread seems fairly pointless.
Lazav will die, but somehow Szadek's soul will find another powerful leader.
I speculate that Borbo dies and is turned into a zombie by Jarad.

Then when get a legendary zombie cyclops.

2 legends of the same guy. One living, one dead.

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Which Guild Leaders do You Think Will Survive



Borbo, niv-mizzet, the ghost council, Aurelia and Jarad will, because they're either immortal or live very long. The others will die. 

2 legends of the same guy. One living, one dead.
 
Been there ,done that.

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Jarad will probably die.



Two things wrong with that sentence...

Seeing as he's in one of the two guilds where death is not grounds for stepping down.
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I'd like to think Niv could go either way, because it would shake things up.  But it's hard to kill popular characters.  I think it's clear he's either going become significantly more powerful, or he's going to bite it.  I wouldn't want to see Niv fail, but then fade out with a whimper -- either way, it's going to be big.

But I do think this thread is a little premature with the information we have from GTC so far.

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Borborygmos is all but guaranteed to snuff it with the background information we've been getting. He's old, weak, and in line for being turned into so much gory paste.


Hey, he's not weak! He's got one more point of power now.  
I vote for "All burn"

Isperia: Dead
Lazav: Dead, or revealed to be something or someone else, ending the existence of the "Lazav" personality
Rakdos: Dead or sealed
Borborgymos: Dead
Trostani: Dead
Aurellia: Dead (But Feather might be back to replace her)
Ghost Council: Dispersed as a political entity.  Some members may continue unlife, others might be destroyed, but the "Council" is gone in any case
Niv Mizzet: Along with Lazav, the one who might come out on top, if the dragon in "Dragon's Maze" is Niv and not Bolas.  But if he lives, he'll be transformed in some fundamental way, either becoming a planeswalker (As much as I dislike that idea as a storyline fan) or Transcending in some other way.
Zenagata Zune Zippy-de-do-dah Stupid Simic Mer Chick: Dead
Jarad: Final/True Death.  Dusted.

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Despite the lack of storyline information, I'll give my speculative opinion! :D

Isperia; 50% -- I can see this going either way if only because she is (unfortunately) not at all involved in the main story. She's one I'd rather not see go, and wish were fleshed out more.
Trostani; 70% -- For Trostani I believe she has a higher chance of dying because the Selesnyans seem to be preparing for war and due to Trostani's connection to the Worldsoul which I can see being destroyed, I think she might perish along with it. I'd be a little upset, but not really bothered.
Boborygmos; 90% -- As it was stated before I could also imagine Boborygmos losing an epic battle either against another guild or due to in-clan fighting. He's the most likely to die judging from flavor text and guild 'politics'. It will likely be an epic death, so I'm for it.
Aurelia; 65% -- Aurelia I believe has an okay chance of losing her life if only due to her ambitions for the Boros. She's a strong wellspoken leader who is mustering her soldiers and boosting their egos and moral. I can see this ending badly for her when all is said and done, especially if she causes problems with the other guilds. I prefer Feather.
Obzedat; 40% -- These guys I see having a tough time dying or losing their power. Their numbers might shift, but I believe the Obzedant will continue in the long run. Unfortunately as I'd prefer to see someone else run Orzhov.
Jarad; 55% -- Another character whose death I see as pretty up in the air. He's a little more involved in the plot judging from flavortext which may help or hurt him but really it's a matter that the Golgari have had the most numerous amount of guildmaster deaths. Maybe things will change. I'm personally indifferent to him.
Zegana; 40% -- Maybe it's just my Simic pride and hope, but I don't think Zegana will snuff it. I'm sure she's got some strange simicy scheme floating around down there but she's a welcomed change from Momir. I'd like to think -some- of the guildmasters are heros or actually trying to do something beneficial for the City. Hope she lives!
Lazav; 70% -- My guess is Lazav is a character we've met before disguised as someone else. Whoever he/she might be I believe by the end of the block there will be an okay chance s/he'll die. I may or may not be disappointed!
Rakdos; 45% -- Rakdos is quite the Demon. Something tells me the Lord of Riots will rage on into the re-revisit, though I could be wrong. Maybe it's time for a big change in the guild? I wouldn't mind either way.
Niv-Mizzet; 30% -- I just can't see Niv-Mizzet dying this block despite how much it revolves around his machinations and schemes which can often times ends in ruin for the schemers in Magic. He's just so popular to make him kick the bucket seems like it would upset the fans, which I suppose could very well be the reason why the do it because we wouldn't expect it. I wouldn't like to see him go by any means, but it wouldn't bring me to tears either. Likely he'll get stronger, or get bored!

"He is prescient and intense, like a looming thunderstorm trying to whisper it's secrets into our incapable ears..."

I see this resolving one of two ways. In the end, the guilded creating a powerful senate with checks and balances, something akin to a new Guildpact/ ruling council, which would actively set up a third block, of the guilded pitted against the guildless. I m beginning the dragon's maze leads to Mat'Selesnya. The Selesnyans may be preparing to protect her. Zagana, who learned from the previous guild leader, is likely to make his mistakes. She seems to be strictly bent on preservation, but the guildless and guilded may begin to fear her monstrous creations. I mean... They made a Man-Octopus! I feel it's a toss-up between Trostani and Aurelia. One will die if the other doesn't. I think we'll see much fewer deaths, thanks to the very small nature of the story this time around. Jarad while having no immediate discrepencies with the other guilds, has knives pointed at his back from his own. It's a constant struggle for power in the undercity. I didn't quite realize Borborygmos was getting up there in age. At that point, it certainly seems like this active destruction is a last hurrah, tearing down as much city as possible. Somehow this causes me to forsee a larger land destruction theme in DGM, though Borborygmos already represents that.

The ones who have remained immortal this long will continue to be, I suppose.

One thing they haven't mentioned yet. Now that the Ghost Quarter is fused with Ravnica instead of a seperate entity, is it really even having an effect on anything? After all, at the end of Rav, it was being set up like an eleventh guild. 
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2 legends of the same guy. One living, one dead.
 

Been there ,done that.



 



So there's a precedent. Even better

Borborgymos, Returned
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I'm going to say spoiler, Lazav is actually every guild leader and has fabricated the current drama. He's a very lonely, lonely man...
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Orzhov probably will stay
Boros will die. Feather will come back.
Gruul will be challenged and will lose.
Wizards won't let Nivvy die.
Golgari maybe succeeded?
Simic will hopefully die. I don't like Zegana.
Selesnya seems she'd die.
Azorius won't die.
Rakdos will live.
Dimir will die.
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Look for Szedek's spirit on Dragon's Maze.
I kinda want Niv to die in the story.

As loved as he is, I'd think that the inclusing of planeswalkers to the story will mess up many of the plans he made. I could see Niv's plane go wrong and being blown apart by it.

I'm quite sur Borbo will kick the bucket here. Getting weak is not a good sign if you're in Gruul.

The only other one I could see dying is Lazav, I doubt the story would let him survive.

Trostani - killed, replaced by someone else, possibly Jace's friend, who will ascend to a higher form.

Rakdos - survives, no slumber, just does his old thing.

Isperia - I could see her dying to Lazav treachery.

Jarad - undead, remains that way.

Niv-Mizzet - survives but foiled.

Borbor - dies, but not necessarily to challenger

Zegana - not important enough, could go either way.

Obzedat - survive, but Teysa takes role of Guildmaster

Lazav - thought to be killed, but escapes by impersonating someone else.

Aurelia - so dead.
Niv-Mizzet:  Already dead. Lazav is impresonating him.

 
Dimir: I feel this one will always die, sort of like, how in Harry Potter, the defense of the Dark Arts teacher, never survives to host multiple years.


The DADA teachers didn't all die, they just left after the term.  In fact, Quirrell might have been the only one:  Lockheart went insane; Lupin was outed; Umbridge was chased away by centaurs; and Snape went on to be headmaster.  I don't remember off the top of my head what happened to Crouch Jr.

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Which one?

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
The Guilds of Ravnica will destroy each other. You can't have guild leaders without guilds.
Boros: Hope she dies like the old one


Orzhov: They will always go on


Simic: She crawls back into her cave


Izzet: Live, or figure out a way to planeswalk


Szadek: Join Obzedat, or take over Ravnica


Dimir: Take over Ravnica and kill Gideon               
Dimir: I feel this one will always die, sort of like, how in Harry Potter, the defense of the Dark Arts teacher, never survives to host multiple years.


The DADA teachers didn't all die, they just left after the term.  In fact, Quirrell might have been the only one:  Lockheart went insane; Lupin was outed; Umbridge was chased away by centaurs; and Snape went on to be headmaster.  I don't remember off the top of my head what happened to Crouch Jr.



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I would not be able to presume the fates of the other Guild Leaders but I have been informed that Borborygmos will be unable to continue if we are to believe the following report . . .

If Aurelia dies, Lazav dies...
Because one is the other :P
Okay that may be a little stretch, but it's kinda weird how close she is with Gideon and how she's the same person who overthrew Feather (the previous Boros Guildleader)
-
Also, it's sad for me to face it, but Borborygmos is definitely going to go down...
Just had a thought. Do you think in the final set the would have new guild leaders for those that are killed or whatever in the story?
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