Karn Liberated

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I use Karn Liberated to restart the game, putting onto the battlefield at least one permanent with echo. The rules describe echo as follows:

702.28a Echo is a triggered ability. “Echo [cost]” means “At the beginning of your upkeep, if this
permanent came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless
you pay [cost].”

Will echo trigger if I never had a "last upkeep"?
Rules Advisor
Logically, it should trigger, but Magic rules ain't submitted to logic...

Based on how it's worded I would say it wouldn't trigger.  Echo has an intervening 'if' clause and in order for it to trigger that clause must be true.  In this case the clause is not true because as you stated you had no prior upkeep.

DCI Level 2 Judge

Rockford, Illinois

So theoretically, if you had a way to cast a creature with echo on your opponent's first turn (the opponent going first), you can skip the echo cost?
Sounds legit. I need to do this to my friends. 

Rules Advisor

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

So theoretically, if you had a way to cast a creature with echo on your opponent's first turn (the opponent going first), you can skip the echo cost?
Sounds legit.

It certainly would trigger according to the reminder text printed on Simian Grunts:
«During your next upkeep after this permanent comes under your control, pay its casting cost or sacrifice it.»
I know reminder text is no rule at all, but this still reflects the original intent of the Echo ability; perhaps the new wording of the rule simply is defective in that it overlooked this situation?

This is probably the first time I've ever seen a question in this forum go more than fifteen minutes without a definitive answer. Can we get a Rules Manager in here?

L1 Judge

This is probably the first time I've ever seen a question in this forum go more than fifteen minutes without a definitive answer. Can we get a Rules Manager in here?


It looks like the question was answered a week ago.  If you want an [O] ruling, you can send a PM to Natedogg.
 
Yes, it will trigger. You'll have to pay the echo, even if you cast the Grunts on your opponent's turn, before your first time. It's obviously too late for an update in the rules now, but it will be looked in to for the next upkeep.

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DCI Level 2 Judge

Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.