Cheating in Magic / Stealing in Magic

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I was curious how much cheating goes on in magic, as well as stealing.

Do people stack their deck and do false shuffles?

Do people use sleight of hand to gain unnatural card advantage or fix a draw? (and no, I don't mean the card for one blue mana)

Do judges notice this sort of thing, and has anyone ever been caught?

Have people used these techniques to steal cards from your deck? Does this happen often?
Yeah, this is totally not a suspicious post...

Why does everyone think I'm phantom lancer? QFT:

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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
Do people stack their deck and do false shuffles?

Do people use sleight of hand to gain unnatural card advantage or fix a draw? (and no, I don't mean the card for one blue mana)

Do judges notice this sort of thing, and has anyone ever been caught?

Yes to all of these questions. Deck-stacking and sleight-of-hand do happen from time to time, and judges have noticed and caught people at it before. In tournaments it earns the player a DQ from the event and likely suspension.

Have people used these techniques to steal cards from your deck? Does this happen often?

No to this one. I've never even heard of someone using sleight of hand to steal cards from an opponent's deck during a game. The closest I've heard of is people slipping a card from an opponent's deck onto the floor while shuffling and then calling a judge saying their opponent presented an illegal deck.

While theft can be a problem at larger events, it tends to be the someone-grabbed-your-backpack-when-you-weren't-looking type.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I've seen unintentional theft at times. For example if I play pacifism on an opponent's creature there are times where that opponent will shuffle it into his/her library.

One way to prevent this from happening is to shuffle your cards into 6 random piles of 10 before shuffling your library between games.
Don't be too smart to have fun
I've seen unintentional theft at times. For example if I play pacifism on an opponent's creature there are times where that opponent will shuffle it into his/her library.

One way to prevent this from happening is to shuffle your cards into 6 random piles of 10 before shuffling your library between games.



I wonder if it would be insulting to count your cards after the last game and have him wait until you can verify that you have all 75 cards before they leave...

Yeah, this is totally not a suspicious post...



It's a genuine question. I was watching Penn & Teller's "Fool Us" on youtube, and I saw some really amazing card magicians. Michael Vincent seems like a guy who could do this and the judges wouldn't notice it at all, which is why I asked. Perhaps it's a rarity, since he had to spend 4 decades honing his skills, so it's unlikely a 20-year old magic player would have this level of skill... and if he did, maybe he has better things to do than play magic... but still a valid concern I think.
I wonder if it would be insulting to count your cards after the last game and have him wait until you can verify that you have all 75 cards before they leave...

If you just quickly pile-counted after the game? Not at all--an Aura accidentally being shuffled into the wrong player's deck does happen on occasion.

Perhaps it's a rarity, since he had to spend 4 decades honing his skills, so it's unlikely a 20-year old magic player would have this level of skill... and if he did, maybe he has better things to do than play magic...

Exactly. While it's true that a professional-level sleight-of-hand artist could likely do all sorts of crazy things, people with that kind of skill are exceedingly rare, and those who do have it aren't usually going to waste their time playing Magic when they could be doing something with a far higher return-on-investment, like playing Poker or, y'know, being a professional sleight-of-hand artist. Also, the amount of mischief they can get up to is limited by two things: players can (and usually will) shuffle their opponent's deck after any shuffle the opponent performs, and judges perform deck-checks on a regular basis at high-level events.

Basically, you're way too concerned about this; it's just not worth worrying about. The likelihood of it happening is miniscule, and even in the spectatularly unlikely event it comes to pass, what's going to happen to you? You might lose a game of cards. Heaven forbid! While it may technically be a valid concern in that it can potentially happen, it's certainly not a realistic one.

If you want to worry about something, worry about something that's more likely to happen and has more serious consequences, like being in a car wreck or having a heart attack. Check some natural disaster or fatal disease statistics--that'll give you something to worry about. Hell, just turn on cable news and they'll scare the pants off you by the end of Prime Time.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I know a thing or two about sleight-of-hand; one of my other hobbies is that other type of magic. More coin tricks than card tricks, but I wouldn't use card sleights or deck stacks even if I could- first, it's cheating, and I've got a strong moral compulsion against cheating. Second, it'd be much less fun than an honest game.

Anyway, it's certainly possible to do false shuffles (though it's tougher to do it with sleeved cards.) I'm fairly certain I'd know one when I saw one, but others may not have the skillset. There is a specific type of shuffle called the Faro Shuffle, which, when done a certain number of times, will reset a deck back to its state before you started shuffling. It can be done, but it takes years of practice. And the tradition of letting the other player shuffle your deck helps mitigate any advantage.

Edit- By the way, zammm, doing this in poker will get you kicked out of a casino (or worse.) They've got cameras and dealers are usually trained to know what to look for. And sleight-of-hand artists don't usually make that much money, and work their butts off for what they do make, booking shows, making contacts, etc.
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Do people stack their deck and do false shuffles?

Do people use sleight of hand to gain unnatural card advantage or fix a draw? (and no, I don't mean the card for one blue mana)



Mike Long did both these things. He was caught when people noticed he was sitting on a Cadaverous Bloom. Then people noticed how he would distract opponents while shuffling then fool them into thinking they already cut his deck.

The "I'm not mana weaving; I'm randomizing my deck" meme seems to have evolved from there. Consider it to be the Magic equivalent of "delete system32, it'll make it go faster". (By the way, deleting system32 just crashes Windows, so don't.) Basically, if you build a 40-card deck with 17 lands or a 60-card deck with 20 lands and put them in five piles, the first card in pile 1, second in pile 2, third in pile 3, fourth in pile 4, fifth in pile 5, sixth in pile 1, seventh in pile 2, &c., then stack the piles, and do it a second time, any hand will have two or three lands. The correct response when seeing this kind of chicanery is to shuffle your opponent's deck for real, and say "Hey, moar random." in a really obnoxious voice.

David Williams simply preferred marked cards, the other magic trick.

More recently, Alex Bertoncini preferred to use Brainstorm not as intended. Must be nice to put 4 Recalls in a Legacy deck. (And by the way, consider Bertoncini proof that cheaters can be quite affable.)

Then we have Tomoharu Saito, who would make decisions at different speeds according to how much time was left on the clock. Subtle cheating, but yes, in a timed game, stalling is cheating.

What's bad is, none of these players needed to cheat. They're all really good.

Do judges notice this sort of thing, and has anyone ever been caught?

Have people used these techniques to steal cards from your deck? Does this happen often?



I once went to FNM and came back missing a Tuktuk the Explorer and a d4 for some reason.

But since we know cheaters exist, then I'm guessing judges do catch them.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt

If you want to worry about something, worry about something that's more likely to happen and has more serious consequences, like being in a car wreck or having a heart attack.


Not trying to pick on zammm, but worrying is okay. It's okay and appropriate to worry about being in a car wreck while driving, and it's okay and appropriate to watch your opponent like an eagle during a competitive card game.

Edit- By the way, zammm, doing this in poker will get you kicked out of a casino (or worse.) They've got cameras and dealers are usually trained to know what to look for. And sleight-of-hand artists don't usually make that much money, and work their butts off for what they do make, booking shows, making contacts, etc.

Oh, I know it's no picnic. But if you're really good, it's still likely to make you more money more consistently than Magic. (And I specifically didn't mention casinos--I was thinking more of social, casual poker nights or the like, not professional poker, which as you said has an even greater chance of being caught than Magic.)

Not trying to pick on zammm, but worrying is okay. It's okay and appropriate to worry about being in a car wreck while driving, and it's okay and appropriate to watch your opponent like an eagle during a competitive card game.

Agreed...but only to a point. Worrying is fine in moderation, but it should be kept in perspective, and from the tone of Riften's posts it seemed like he was massively overestimating the risk.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Edit- By the way, zammm, doing this in poker will get you kicked out of a casino (or worse.) They've got cameras and dealers are usually trained to know what to look for. And sleight-of-hand artists don't usually make that much money, and work their butts off for what they do make, booking shows, making contacts, etc.

Oh, I know it's no picnic. But if you're really good, it's still likely to make you more money more consistently than Magic. (And I specifically didn't mention casinos--I was thinking more of social, casual poker nights or the like, not professional poker, which as you said has an even greater chance of being caught than Magic.)

Not trying to pick on zammm, but worrying is okay. It's okay and appropriate to worry about being in a car wreck while driving, and it's okay and appropriate to watch your opponent like an eagle during a competitive card game.

Agreed...but only to a point. Worrying is fine in moderation, but it should be kept in perspective, and from the tone of Riften's posts it seemed like he was massively overestimating the risk.



Cheating at casual poker will lose you friends. Or get your hand nailed to the table, depending on who your friends are in the first place
You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
You are both rational and emotional. You value creation and discovery, and feel strongly about what I create. At best, you're innovative and intuitive. At worst, you're scattered and unpredictable.
I divide my cards into four piles of 15 and then shuffle (normally) the piles into 30s and then into 60. This is both my preferred shuffling technique and a way of making sure I have the right number of cards. However, I'm not at all worried about a player stealing cards: I am worried about me making a mistake when a card is exiled or when sideboarding.
Then we have Tomoharu Saito, who would make decisions at different speeds according to how much time was left on the clock. Subtle cheating, but yes, in a timed game, stalling is cheating.

How do you even prove that someone is doing that? I don't think there are any psychic judges out there.

Also, I wouldn't think that taking too long in a timed game is necessarily cheating. I actually don't know what the rules are on that in magic these days, if you go over the hour or whatever it is for your match do they just give the win to whoever has taken more rounds? I could see that being a problem if someone just won the first round and literally did nothing for the rest of the match. But if it was more like a fighting game and the players life totals were taken into account at the end of time maybe that would encourage more active play(because you'd almost always have to be working so that you would at very least have more life by the end of time.) But then that would sort of hinder mill decks... but maybe that's okay?

Then we have Tomoharu Saito, who would make decisions at different speeds according to how much time was left on the clock. Subtle cheating, but yes, in a timed game, stalling is cheating.

How do you even prove that someone is doing that? I don't think there are any psychic judges out there.

Also, I wouldn't think that taking too long in a timed game is necessarily cheating. I actually don't know what the rules are on that in magic these days, if you go over the hour or whatever it is for your match do they just give the win to whoever has taken more rounds? I could see that being a problem if someone just won the first round and literally did nothing for the rest of the match. But if it was more like a fighting game and the players life totals were taken into account at the end of time maybe that would encourage more active play(because you'd almost always have to be working so that you would at very least have more life by the end of time.) But then that would sort of hinder mill decks... but maybe that's okay?




You can get a game loss if a judge determines you were intentionally slow playing to run out the clock.  If the clock runs out, the game goes into 5 extra turns, after which it becomes a draw.

There are a number of situations where a player would benefit from intentional slow play.  If they won the first game and can force the second game to go to a draw they win the round.   If they do get to game three, and are unable to win, they could slow play to force the round to a draw, which is better than losing.

Theres really no fair way to judge the current board state of the game, especially outside of standard.  What if I've done 5 damage to myself in the process of preparing my game winning combo which would have killed the opponent the next turn?  He gets the win?

Its just better to have the game draw, and if you think slow play might have an effect on the game outcome call a judge ahead of time to have them watch both of you.

Current decks
Comments or suggestions are always welcome

Modern
nothing at the moment

Theres really no fair way to judge the current board state of the game, especially outside of standard.  What if I've done 5 damage to myself in the process of preparing my game winning combo which would have killed the opponent the next turn?  He gets the win?

That's really not much of a problem. Everyone agrees to the time limit when they sign up for play, it's part of the game at that point. Also, if you were up on life before the combo you knowingly cost yourself the game when time was about to run out. To me it's no different from a fighting game - if time runs out at the end of the round it doesn't matter if you end with all of your meters full with only one mix-up to go before you win, if your opponent has more life you lose. Nobody feels bad or tries to run it back for 10 more seconds, we move on to the next round. I realize that life total is a limited way to judge board position but we AREN'T judging board position, we're trying to make the tournament run in a timely manner. That's the only purpose for time limits. I'm just saying maybe there is a better way to design the time limit rules to encourage active play. It certainly works for fighting games and other competitive games.
I was curious how much cheating goes on in magic, as well as stealing.



MTG is 40% cheating, 30% stealing.

Do people stack their deck and do false shuffles?



Always. Richard Garfield isn't on record as saying, "Thragtusk wins matches, but nimble fingers win tourneys" for nothing.

Do people use sleight of hand to gain unnatural card advantage or fix a draw? (and no, I don't mean the card for one blue mana)



If you see your opp sitting across from you with a single card in hand and an expressionless face, and he then waves his hand to and fro and suddenly has a full hand of seven cards and a smirk on his face, you're probably playing against me. Entire board-states are known to change in the blink of an eye. BYOV.

Do judges notice this sort of thing, and has anyone ever been caught?



Depends on who's paying them. "He who buys the cards is honest; he who buys the judges is winner." Richard Garfield.

Have people used these techniques to steal cards from your deck? Does this happen often?



lol of course not. No one is that brazen. They'll wait for you in the parking lot to get your cards. When Richard Garfield was asked, "What's your favorite way to play MTG?" he didn't respond, "Armed" for the lulz.

Yes, Magic players cheat


Source.

Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
Have people used these techniques to steal cards from your deck? Does this happen often?

No to this one. I've never even heard of someone using sleight of hand to steal cards from an opponent's deck during a game.


Im worried this might have happened to me, at the end of a tournament/packing up from last game. "Lost" a playset of Darkslick Shores I had traded my butt off for, that I was sure were in my deck... 

Didnt notice they were missing until much later (I used a different deck for a few weeks).
 
~ Tim 

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Im worried this might have happened to me, at the end of a tournament/packing up from last game. "Lost" a playset of Darkslick Shores I had traded my butt off for, that I was sure were in my deck... 

Didnt notice they were missing until much later (I used a different deck for a few weeks).
 
~ Tim 



I doubt it was sleight of hand, probably just ordinary theft.

Fun stories: One of my friends had a Batterskull stolen from his binder. Things not stolen: The Tarmogoyf on the same page. 
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
Mike Flores once caught SCG's podcast accidentally instructing players to cheat, so, yes, cheating is common.

Wait, if cheating is common, is it legal in Pauper?
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
1) It wasn't a podcast, it was the Magic show, which at the time, wasn't affiliated with SCG, afaik.
2) The cheating method specifically requires you to start with every land card on the top of your deck, which Evan Erwin made no mention of.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

How do you even prove that someone is doing that?

You can't, unless they admit it. Thankfully, Judges don't have to prove it. If the Judge believes you were Stalling, they can and will disqualify you for it. Evidence is nice, but absolute proof is not required.

Also, I wouldn't think that taking too long in a timed game is necessarily cheating.

It isn't--someone who accidentally or unknowingly takes too long is just guilty of Slow Play. It's intentionally taking longer than necessary in order to take advantage of the time limit that's cheating.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I dont really liuke the comparison of the round clock in mtg tournies to a fighting game.

Fighting game "skill" includes reflexes and (physical, fingers yea, but its physical)speed, both of which can be put to the test on a clock.   And there is (ussually) only the health bar to win and loose by. 

Magic skill does not include reflex or speed.  the clocks are included on rounds because different games can take different times.  You wouldnt want to wait an extra hour to start a new round just because 2 control decks ended up in a mirror that lasted 45 mins a game.

And the game decided by life points on the clock stopping, would be a bad idea i think.  It would heavily favor some stratigies.  I can almost already see some one making a stasis style lock deck that gained a little life somewhere, whose whole plan was to take the round to time and win by life. 
...not that it would be the best thing to play...but those people exist.  They would have fun just ruining other peoples time
:For autocarding, write [ c ] card name [ / c ] You can also do [*c=lightning bolt]'Bolt[/c*] to get 'Bolt sigged because I always forget to do it
Theres really no fair way to judge the current board state of the game, especially outside of standard.  What if I've done 5 damage to myself in the process of preparing my game winning combo which would have killed the opponent the next turn?  He gets the win?

That's really not much of a problem. Everyone agrees to the time limit when they sign up for play, it's part of the game at that point. Also, if you were up on life before the combo you knowingly cost yourself the game when time was about to run out. To me it's no different from a fighting game - if time runs out at the end of the round it doesn't matter if you end with all of your meters full with only one mix-up to go before you win, if your opponent has more life you lose. Nobody feels bad or tries to run it back for 10 more seconds, we move on to the next round. I realize that life total is a limited way to judge board position but we AREN'T judging board position, we're trying to make the tournament run in a timely manner. That's the only purpose for time limits. I'm just saying maybe there is a better way to design the time limit rules to encourage active play. It certainly works for fighting games and other competitive games.



The comparison here just doesnt work.  Fighting games have a single obvious judgement of the current game state.  They have a single life total bar and the only goal is to decrease the opponents life total bar.  Magic is way more complex than any fighting game.

Changing the rules to essentially state that life total was more relelvant than anything else would make all decks with other win conditions strictly worse.  It would be highly biased in favor of aggro decks that can get some quick damage in early in the game.

Current decks
Comments or suggestions are always welcome

Modern
nothing at the moment

Changing the rules to essentially state that life total was more relelvant than anything else would make all decks with other win conditions strictly worse.  It would be highly biased in favor of aggro decks that can get some quick damage in early in the game.


Although I agree with not changing it, I don't think it would cause as many problems as you think since most matches don't go to time.
Immature College Student (Also a Rules Advisor)
Changing the rules to essentially state that life total was more relelvant than anything else would make all decks with other win conditions strictly worse.  It would be highly biased in favor of aggro decks that can get some quick damage in early in the game.



Although I agree with not changing it, I don't think it would cause as many problems as you think since most matches don't go to time.


That's exactly right, it would actually change very little as far as the outcome of tournament matches. Most of the time you'd never know the difference and it will not change the WAY that people play, only encourage moving the game along.

The problem with the current system, if we assume there is a problem and would like to actually encourage players to keep the pace up rather than stalling(which, as someone pointed out, really cannot even be objectively enforced) is that if a player wins the first round of a match they get the opportunity to stall the ENTIRE rest of the match no matter what the opponent does. With the system I proposed both players must be proactive and manage time fairly - if I'm down on life I HAVE to make something happen, it doesn't matter how many rounds I've won. Most of the time encouraging the race wouldn't do anything more than just promote good fundamentals (the players should be racing in some respect anyway.) With the direction the game is taking these days it's rare to see tournament builds that do not win by dealing lethal AND cannot complete a match in less than an hour. Even if your deck can drag on that long it's going to have issues with the time limit under either set of rules.


Maybe my proposal isn't so refined, there might be a similar way to do it that would serve the purpose better and more fairly, but as far as I can see something like this should more or less do the job, which is to make sure the player who is up on rounds would only benefit from stalling the game maybe 20-30% of the time rather than 100% of the time and allow a largely unenforceable rule to be enforced by the players themselves.

Changing the rules to essentially state that life total was more relelvant than anything else would make all decks with other win conditions strictly worse.  It would be highly biased in favor of aggro decks that can get some quick damage in early in the game.



Although I agree with not changing it, I don't think it would cause as many problems as you think since most matches don't go to time.


That's exactly right, it would actually change very little as far as the outcome of tournament matches. Most of the time you'd never know the difference and it will not change the WAY that people play, only encourage moving the game along.

The problem with the current system, if we assume there is a problem and would like to actually encourage players to keep the pace up rather than stalling(which, as someone pointed out, really cannot even be objectively enforced) is that if a player wins the first round of a match they get the opportunity to stall the ENTIRE rest of the match no matter what the opponent does. With the system I proposed both players must be proactive and manage time fairly - if I'm down on life I HAVE to make something happen, it doesn't matter how many rounds I've won. Most of the time encouraging the race wouldn't do anything more than just promote good fundamentals (the players should be racing in some respect anyway.) With the direction the game is taking these days it's rare to see tournament builds that do not win by dealing lethal AND cannot complete a match in less than an hour. Even if your deck can drag on that long it's going to have issues with the time limit under either set of rules.


Maybe my proposal isn't so refined, there might be a similar way to do it that would serve the purpose better and more fairly, but as far as I can see something like this should more or less do the job, which is to make sure the player who is up on rounds would only benefit from stalling the game maybe 20-30% of the time rather than 100% of the time and allow a largely unenforceable rule to be enforced by the players themselves.




Changing the rules wouldnt affect a large percentage of matches, however it would affect more matches than stalling currently does.  If the solution has a larger fallout than the problem its intended to fix you have a problem.

The current rules are enforceable because judges enforce them.  There might not be a totally objective way to measure slow play, but that is often the case in regards to other rulings as well.  Part of why we need judges is for someone to make judgement calls from an unbiased position.

The game of Magic cannot be simplified down to a single number.  I am honestly dumbfounded that someone can be so insistent that life totals are a good measurement of the current state of a game (and if you are determining a winner based on something other than who is actually more likely to win you are being pointlessly arbitrary).  Heck, based on these rules you can win rounds just by playing pure lifegain with no win condition.  Its utterly absurd.

The only way to make the current rules for these situations any more "fair" than they already are would be to add time clocks, forcing players to keep track of every single priority change, and I think we can all agree thats probably a really bad idea.

Current decks
Comments or suggestions are always welcome

Modern
nothing at the moment

In single-elimination tournaments where draws are not an option, they do determine the winner by highest life total. And it's still possible to stall. The difference between Magic and fighting games is that in Magic, the two players don't play at the same time. Whoever will win when time runs out will always have an incentive to stall, and if they do, the opponent has no choice but to go along with it unless he calls a judge.
In single-elimination tournaments where draws are not an option, they do determine the winner by highest life total. And it's still possible to stall. The difference between Magic and fighting games is that in Magic, the two players don't play at the same time. Whoever will win when time runs out will always have an incentive to stall, and if they do, the opponent has no choice but to go along with it unless he calls a judge.



Where are these tournaments? I need to ensure that I never go there.
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
In single-elimination tournaments where draws are not an option, they do determine the winner by highest life total. And it's still possible to stall. The difference between Magic and fighting games is that in Magic, the two players don't play at the same time. Whoever will win when time runs out will always have an incentive to stall, and if they do, the opponent has no choice but to go along with it unless he calls a judge.



Where are these tournaments? I need to ensure that I never go there.



All top 8s are like that. They need to have a winner, after all.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

In single-elimination tournaments where draws are not an option, they do determine the winner by highest life total. And it's still possible to stall. The difference between Magic and fighting games is that in Magic, the two players don't play at the same time. Whoever will win when time runs out will always have an incentive to stall, and if they do, the opponent has no choice but to go along with it unless he calls a judge.



Where are these tournaments? I need to ensure that I never go there.



All top 8s are like that. They need to have a winner, after all.




Maybe I'm just biased and/or only watch the major sanctioned events, but I could have sworn they just ignore the time. Plus... doesn't splitting happen? Like, all the time?

Life total strikes me as being the stupidest way to determine that stuff ever. Declaring the game or even match a draw and calculating tiebreakers is a solid idea, that is not. 
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
I may be mistaken, I'm not an expert. I know it does happen, because there are rules to Sudden Death.

Rules Advisor

Quotes
76783093 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
56945988 wrote:
Rancor dies to in-response removal.
Yeah... Until next game, where it'll be right back. Seriously, there's no way to deal with Rancor in any format. It should be banned, except Gleemax is a lobbyist for the Rancor party, so that'll never happen.
You can't ban rancor, it just returns to your deck.
58331438 wrote:
57461258 wrote:
You might want to actually talk to the Flavor & Storyline Board people... since, you know, our whole reason for playing Magic is the flavor. I'm willing to bet you'll get a lot more interest there than in General.
Indeed, both posters down there would be thrilled.
57817638 wrote:
I think I wasn't direct enough in my last post. I'll try to fix it now. Ahem... NO ONE CARES there you have it.
57471038 wrote:
When talks about banning Jace first started, I was thinking that I would see him banned come June 20th. But as I think more about it, I don't really think that Jace is the problem anymore. Sure his power level leaves very little to the imagination (opening Jace is like opening a refrigerator box with a naked girl on the inside), and sure his price does have a strong impact on what players choose to play (playing Jace is like being intimate with a woman and she doesn't charge you in the morning), but it is not the source of all the problems in Standard.
76973988 wrote:
How do people think saving room to print more abilities on cards is dumbing down the game?

Do you really think, say, Akroma would ever be printed if she said, "Akroma can block by creatures with this ability and cannot be blocked by creatures without this ability.  If a creature without this ability would deal combat damage by Akroma would be destroyed, prevent all combat damage that creature would deal to Akroma this combat.  Attacking does not cause Akroma to tap.  If Akroma is blocked and deals lethal damage, it deals the remainder of its damage to the defending player.  Akroma may attack and use abilities that require tapping in the casting cost the turn it enters the battlefield.  Akroma cannot be damaged, enchanted, equipped, blocked or targeted by black or red sources" rather than her "dumbed down" wording she has?  No freaking way.  Keywording and shorthand allows them to make complicated cards easy to play with, allowing them to be printed in the first place.
57817638 wrote:
The creation of praetors was worth it just because now amoeboid changeling is a praetor.
57140668 wrote:
1. cast frankie peanuts2. ask opponent "will you concede the game this turn"? if they say yes, you win; if they say no, play a staying power
3. subsequently ask "will you attack this turn"? and "will you cast a spell this turn"? (using a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir for the second question if necessary) to ensure they can't disrupt the combo
4. donate them a platinum angel
5. play a mox lotus and braingeyser them for every card in their library. play an opalescence and donate them a glorious anthem and a blacker lotus, then play enchanted evening. play and activate a mindslaver and then donate them a fastbond and the mox lotus (returning one of the donates to your hand with eternal witness or whatever)
6. during their turn, play every permanent in their hand (playing lands with fastbond) then (as yourself) cast mirrorweave on the blacker lotus, so every permanent becomes a copy of it. proceed to tear up every card they control, and hopefully do it before they notice that they aren't bound by staying power's ability anymore and can concede
82423538 wrote:
57471038 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
One part of the statement being true=/=the whole statement true.
Whatever. I'm still here about ten minutes away. Whenever you want to get destroyed in Magic, I'm available.
I would like to get destroyed in Magic, actually. Do you know anybody good enough?
57617478 wrote:
Please format your statements in a way that doesn't look like a baboon hit its face on your keyboard.
57140668 wrote:
why did Garruk Relentless lose a loyalty counter
Show
to get to the other side
89522235 wrote:
You're such an obvious troll that you have hexproof and : Regenerate.
56957928 wrote:
56776038 wrote:
Dark Ritual being overpowered is determined more by what is done with it than the card itself.
True, but the fact that it enables so many ridiculous things is pretty telling. It's like, sure I can use a shotgun as a bludgeoning instrument, but that doesn't make it not a shotgun.
79035425 wrote:
Shortly before Serra died, she transferred her spark into an angel whose full name was Asha Avacyn Bolas. Her dragon father groomed her for her positions in Alara and Innistrad, and she's also been getting help from her uncle Ugin in the form of Urza, who was resurrected as Marit Lage to be the avatar as which she projects herself into material realms. Grieslbrand is a split personality who sometimes wanders the planes disguised as a human woman named Liliana Vess.
97610188 wrote:
Yeah that (Content Removed) really annoys me. Moderated by MY_self right about naahowwww!
93446159 wrote:
Dilleux_Lepaire just won the thread.
57461258 wrote:
And, as usual, Dilleux wins the entire thread. Nice work, sir, nice work.
99113151 wrote:
They need to make 9 layers of zones where cards go when they "die". Much like Hell.
56778328 wrote:
Wow, holy doggy poop, kids, obvious statement is obvious.
56776038 wrote:
122053101 wrote:
i don't think your geting it WotC is trying to kill the comption to make it so that there shity app is the only one left.
I haven't tried the app. How is its use of English grammar? Cheers!
57471038 wrote:
Everyone's life would be easier if players would, instead of coming to the 'net for help with a deck, just netdeck and be done with it. And I'm not talking about some Top 8 lists, for the Casualists, too, can benefit from netdecking. I've netdecked plenty of decks from the Casual Play forums from users such as Mown, Raedien, Floopfoot, and a few others. I snatched straight the heck out of my web browser. Yes, people, your original idea fell victim to a savage netdecker. You have been assimiliated. Suppose I wanted a Zombie deck. Why on earth would I spend time searching Gatherer for a decent list of Zombie cards when Raedien already did it for me? Taking time to be creative or waiting on people on the forums to tell you why your deck sucks or 'go to Casual forums' is a disasterous waste of time (to me).
56957928 wrote:
82423538 wrote:
If WotC started putting $100 bills in packs, the players would complain that they folded them wrong.
No, they just spam them with ban requests. That being said, Magic was ruined back in Alpha when they added all that rules and cards [Debutantes avert your eyes]. My friends and I still like playing it the "pure" way (Basically we go into the woods and hit eachother with wiffle bats while shouting made up obscenities. You know, the way Garfield wanted it to be played).
56957928 wrote:
Don't worry about it. I've come up with a list of changes to fix EDH. -First off, there's no commander. -The minimum deck size is 60 cards, and each deck can have up to four of each card, save basic lands and relentless rats. Also decks have no color identity. -Starting life total is 20. And voila, now things are balanced.
89522235 wrote:
Here's a clever play you can try yourself: -Convince friend to run relentless rats.dec in legacy tournament -Get a deck with lots of mill, yixlid jailer, and humility -Drop humility and jailer, wait for him to dump his hand, mill him out -All his rats now have no abilities. Call a judge because he's playing an illegal deck with more than 4 of a single card. -Get him/her banned from competitive magic play
142055101 wrote:
But how to mark them without making the individual sleeve different! You could buy a skunk and slam it's butt on you deck (pardon the french) Then after the game just sniff at your opponent's pile of cards and you will know if any of your cards are there!!!
141434757 wrote:
In Soviet Russia, Sorin opens You
71235715 wrote:
L, is for the leather gloves you weaaaar. O, is for the organs that guy could spaaaare. V, is very very, extraordinay. E, is for every vagrant i butchered in a wine cellar befooooore.
57052258 wrote:
The outer layer of the Magic: the Gathering box, the carton, or crust, is fairly thin and light, and contains largely aluminosilcates. Within that lies the middle layer, consisting of the familiar booster pack. Although solid, the booster packs' high temperatures allow them to acutally move around within the booster box. This flow, sometimes called convection, is cited by frustrated box mappers as one of WOTC's most genious uses of thermodynamics since the Ravnica block. No one knows what lies at the core of the booster box, but scientists theorize that it must be especially dense in order to make up for the large amount of fluff distributed amongst the booster packs.
58232598 wrote:
88993869 wrote:
Torpor Orb is absolutely godawful against Vexing Devil.
whoever is playing vexing devil is probably losing anyways
56957928 wrote:
I imagine [Ajani 3's] second ability involves him hurling the creature at your opponent Brion Stoutarm style, then the guy is just like "Okay, that may have worked, but don't- GOD DAMN IT!" as he does it again because cats don't give a **** :33.
56957928 wrote:
"Do or do not, there is no try." - Albus Dumbledore, The Lord of the Rings.
89522235 wrote:
68978039 wrote:
Its like that one time Elves broke out in a field of Jund. Elves became a resurgent hit, then died off again once Jund adapted to the rest of the field of G/W that it required mass removal that inherently pooped on Elves too. Submit to the menace. Delver can, and will blot out the sun.
Then we shall play in the shade.
89522235 wrote:
I'm sorry, this forum isn't for getting bad advice on mediocre decks, that's standard deck help. This forum is for starting ****storms.
97820278 wrote:
139359831 wrote:
Your advice would only lead me to make generic, boring, and unworthy content. It's of no use to me.
I just got this image of you as an architect, having finished a building suspended by only a small pole in its southwest corner, saying it's original. Then the building collapses.
56957928 wrote:
I for one love the flavor of legendary lands. "I remember my days as a youth at Tolarian Academy." "Wow, small multiverse, I actually went there too." "WAIT, DON'T- Well ****, there's $200,000 in student loans well spent."
56957928 wrote:
And flavor goes out the window when you cast a second copy of a planeswalker right after the first one dies, so... "Hey Nissa, I need a favor." "You just asked me for a 'favor' like thirty seconds ago, and it turned out to be having Sarkhan Transmogrify my only follower into a dragon like 5 times -which dickery aside also violates some laws of causality - and then you let me get beaten over the head by that hedron crab." "...I'll give you " "...Well all right then."
57150868 wrote:
GM, I don't think Dill is better than you. I KNOW it. Even if he wakes up every morning, clubs a baby seal, steals all the TV remotes from within a block's radius of his house and then robs hungry orphans of their food he'd be better than you, for the simple reason that he learns from his mistakes.
143211137 wrote:
57033358 wrote:
Tamiyo vs. Gideon
What would they have to fight about? Like, all I can think of now is Gideon going "Hey, long-ears! I'm gathering a group of 'Walkers together to fight some tentacle monsters.....you want in?" and Tamiyo going "Ew! Hentai no bakka Gideon-desu desu!" and flying away.
76783093 wrote:
I open 4 packs just to be on the safe side. Not only do I get more cards than everyone else, but I also get to spend the rest of the night off. Win Win.
191752181 wrote:
MaRo has a thing for people opening boosters with bad cards. But since he can only get so many bad cards printed in each set, he has found a devious way of getting more bad cards into circulation: He makes entire print sheets with just bad rares, then puts them onto the assembly line. He proceeds to wring his hands and twirl his evil mustache that he grew for twirling purposes as a lightning bolt strikes in the background. Afterwards, he goes to make sure that the good cards are only opened by everyone's friends, and that we all only get to open bad cards. He does this by memorising each booster, than switching them around accordingly. Whenever someone complains about a card, he immediately jumps out from behind a chair to yell "WELL, IT'S NOT FOR YOU!" before merging back into the shadows in order to devise new ways in which he can screw over players, then claim that he has valid reasons for doing so.
97820278 wrote:
192729031 wrote:
You open a booster pack, and staring back at you from the rare slot is a Lotleth Troll? At least I can stick him in my EDH deck and still have four for my standard constructed.
Because lol troll
56874518 wrote:
It helped that I more or less skipped most of GM_Champion's longer diatribes. I only have so many brain cells I'm willing to sacrifice each day.
192931349 wrote:
Mark Rosewater is sitting in a seemingly innocuous cable TV van, outside of Bankaimastery's house. Sitting nearby are two hardened criminal hackers, fresh out of prison, and filled with resentment at their lack of physical fitness. "Have you managed to hack his brainwaves yet? The set deadline's coming up fast." "We're almost through. It should be coming up on the screen any second." The hacker presses a button, and Kevin's thoughts flash onto the screen. Mark and the hackers stare in amazement at the sheer beauty, the elegance, and the raw truth of what they see. It's like the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant light shines across the screen, the truth of existence is made clear to them, and they despair at their own foolishness, their own ignorance, their own inadequacy. And then they steal his ideas. As they return back to R&D, Mark sneers at a haggard old man chained to a cast-iron sphere. The man looks up from his laborious task of breaking rocks in the dungeon of Wizards of the Coast headquarters, and asks a question: "Kevin, my greatest student. He - he's all right, isn't he? You didn't hurt him?" Mark deals him a weighty blow with his boot. "Know your place, Richard. Get back to work."
57023768 wrote:
Now show me on the Garruk doll where Zac Hill ruined your enjoyment of Magic...
63711769 wrote:
I'm only opposed to it because it bears so little relation to how people actually play the game. The example of Miracles is actually a much better one then the Clone example I was trying to use. From the game's perspective, the card can move instantly from face down in the library to revealed in the hand and that's fine for the rules. But in real life, we can't actually do that, so the card spends a good bit of time in locations that are neither where that player's library is nor where that player's hand is. And that's fine for real life. What I don't want is the disconnect to be explicitly codified. Along the lines of
183664.697 A game of Magic as laid out by these rules exists only as a pure Platonic ideal, utterly unrealizable by fallible mortals limited by the confines of physicality and the ravages of evil and sin. 183664.698 The cake is a lie, too.
I know it's true, but I don't want the rules to actually straight-up tell me that.
147137503 wrote:
77120821 wrote:
Pfft this cant be serious can it? If it is please delete your account OP. Its not even close to ban worthy, considering what JTMS and stoneforge had to accomplish to get banned i see the WotC selling magic to aquire Pokemon before that ever happens.
I'm trying to imagine sorin markov as a gym leader in one of those pokemon games which you have to beat him to get his badge... somehow I imagine that he would stab you in the chest with his sword before giving you the badge, even if you beat his pokemon....
196239043 wrote:
Personally, I'd be fine with tea time but then I'm not gonna waste the mana summoning Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. He always takes all the sugar, drinks the whole pot of Earl Grey and doesn't even say thank you. SO. RUDE.

 

JustTerrorIt wrote:

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

All I want to do is sit down and play magic, but when I walked in yesterday, (since I didn't talk to anyone) nobody talked to me and I silently bought what I wanted and walked out.


If you don't talk to anyone, that increases the odds that no one will talk to you.

 

JuliusPringle wrote:

So how do I just... introduce myself? "Hi, my name is Adam, wanna play magic with me?" Do I go to the counter and talk to the cashier?


Yeah. Talk to the cashier. Tell him/her that you want a Black Lotus, and if they don't have one tell them that the store isn't on par with what you expected.

 

Reach into your back left pocket. Pull out a deck list that you copied directly from some ChannelFireball top 8 Standard discussion, and ask for all the cards, as is, on that list. Then, ask for some random, probably terrible cards from whatever set is Standard legal. Say it's tech for the upcoming changes in the metagame.

 

Pull out a deck, and tell some random dude you wanna test (you have to use the term "test" for this to work) for Standard. Make sure that deck contains Kitchen Finks and Alluring Siren. Maybe throw in Nyxathid for good measure.

 

Finally, before you leave, spill (make it look like an accident) one hundred singleton, random cards onto the floor. Pick them up, put them in a pile, and say "EEE-DEE-AYCH".

 

I know this sounds dumb at first, but it will work. With the method outlined above, you will draw the attention of players that play older formats by asking for cards that no one on Earth can reasonably afford. You will get the attention of the wanna-be pro, Stomp-n00bz players by pulling out a well known decklist and declare that you have "tech" to make it better. You will get the attention of all the kind, helpful players by seemingly not knowing the most common format by having non-Standard legal cards in a deck that you claim is Standard legal. Finally, you catch all the rest of the Magic players by saying "EEE-DEE-AYCH" (EDH (or Commander)).

And there you have it. You will be talking to more people than you would have wanted to talk to in no time.

 

Smoke_Stack wrote:

EDH is the best format anyway


See, it's starting already.

 

Break the Card
What is Break the Card?
Break the Card is a regular thread in the Cards and Combo Forum. Quite simply, the participants are given a Johnnystatic card (e.g. Xenograft) and are asked to build a deck around it. The winner and honorable mentions are sigged below. Get brewing!
Week 1 : Xenograft
This week's Break the Card was based around Xenograft. Thread : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27681049/Break_the_card_:_Xenograft?pg=1 Winner : Axterix with his Vampdrazi deck. Finalist : Vektor480 with his Ally/Golem/Plant deck. Honorable mentions : Zammm for the Turntimber Ranger combo and TinGorilla for suggesting Sarkhan the Mad.
Week 2 : Mindlock Orb
Here's the link to the Mindlock Orb contest : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27697565/Break_the_Card_:_Mindlock_Orb?sdb=1&pg=last#497536269 Winner : Axterix with his Maralen of the Mornsong deck. Honorable mentions : Void_Elemental.
Week 3 : Bludgeon Brawl
Here's the link to Break the Card : Bludgeon Brawl : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27715169/Break_the_Card_:_Bludgeon_Brawl?sdb=1&pg=last#498208797 Winner : Vektor and his Grab the World deck. Finalist : Crandor with his Awesome Aliteration deck. Honorable mentions : RP Jesus with his Wat deck and Zix200 with his Signet Renewal deck.
Week 4 : Followed Footsteps
This week was Followed Footsteps : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27748677/Break_the_Card_:_Followed_Footsteps?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Exponential Growth deck. Honorable mentions : Zix with his Carbon Copies deck and Escef with his Fungus of Speed and Time deck.
Week 5 : Delaying Shield
This week's card was Delaying Shield : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27790101/Break_the_Card_:_Delaying_Shield Winner : Tevish_Szat. Finalist : Vampire_Bat. Honorable Mention : Zix200.
Week 6 : Painter's Servant
This week's card was Painter's Servant : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27940861/Break_the_Card_:_Painters_Servant?pg=1 Winner : Tevish_Szat with his Paint it Black deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his Tiger, Tiger Painted Bright deck.
Week 7 : Venser, the Sojourner
This week's card was Venser, the Sojourner : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/27977489/Break_the_Card_:_Venser,_the_Sojourner Winner : Izzett with her "Venser, Trickster Trader" deck. Finalist : Wprundv with his "Tactical Sojourner Action" deck.
Week 8 : Personal Sanctuary
This week's card was Personal Sanctuary : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28005461/Break_the_card_:_Personal_Sanctuary Winner : MrQuizzles. Honorable mention : Vampire_Bat and UbberSheep
Week 9 : Sundial of the Infinite
This week's card was Sundial of the Infinite : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28038277/Break_the_card_:_Sundial_of_the_Infinite Finalist : Izzett with her "Afterlife Trespassers" deck. Winner : Xeromus with his "Fortune 500" deck.
Week 10 : Jace's Archivist
This week's card was Jace's Archivist : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28063377/Break_the_Card_:_Jaces_Archivist. Finalists : Jentaru with his "Consecration of the Draw" deck and HereticSmitty with his "ADHD: The deck" deck. Winner : JaxsonBateman with his "The Archives Are Endless!" deck.
Week 11 : Search the City
This week's card was Search the City : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29518555/Break_the_Card_:_Search_the_City Finalist : Mown with "A Thousand Footsteps". Winner : Desolation_masticore with "Burn the City".
Week 12 : Fiend Hunter
This week's card was Fiend Hunter : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29530975/Break_the_Card_:_Fiend_Hunter Winner : Yuyu63 with "Carnival Hunting". Honorable mention : Dknowle's "Champion the Fiend".
Week 13 : Clock of Omens
This week's card was Clock of Omens : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29541549/Break_the_Card_:_Clock_of_Omens?pg=1 Winner : Dknowle's "The Myrs Go Marching".
Week 14 : Light of Sanction
This week's card was Light of Sanction : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29607219/Break_the_Card_:_Light_of_Sanction?pg=1 Winner : Zauzich's "Divine Plague".
Week 15 : Assemble the Legion
This week's card was Assemble the Legion : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29662307/Break_the_Card_:_Assemble_the_Legion Winner : JBTM's "Some Assembly Required".
Week 16 : High Tide
This week's cards were High Tide and/or Bubbling Muck : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29760427/Break_the_Card_:_High_Tide Winner : Mown's "Puppet Strings".
Week 17 : Illusionist's Bracers
This week's card was Illusionist's Bracers : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29776943/Break_the_Card_:_Illusionistss_Bracers Winner : Enigma256's "Tezzeret's Bracers"
Week 18 : Savor the Moment
This week's card was Savor the Moment : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29787235/Break_the_Card_:_Savor_the_Moment Winner : POSValkir's "A Savory Filibuster!"
Week 19 : Grinning Ignus
This week's card was Grinning Ignus : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29795547/Break_the_Card_:_Grinning_Ignus Winner : dknowle's "Luren' and Laughin'".
Week 20 : Transcendence
This week's card was Transcendence : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29806481/Break_the_Card_:_Transcendence Winners : Mown's "Transcending Timing Restrictions" and Dknowle's "Blinded by Greed", tied for the win.
Week 21 : Mortus Strider
This week's card was Mortus Strider : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29818471/Break_the_Card_:_Mortus_Strider Winner : SimonGlume's "Mortus Head".
Week 22 : High Priest of Penance
This week's card was High Priest of Penance : http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29917231/Break_the_Card_High_Priest_of_Penance Winners : JBTM's "Two Clerics and a Goblin walk into a (Bom)bar(dment)..." and POSValkir1's "Choke Their Rivers with Our Dead!".
Week 23 : False Cure
This week's card was False Cure :http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29964239/Break_the_Card_:_False_Cure Winner : Dknowle's "When Hippos Fly".

Week 24 : Akroan Horse

This week's card was Akroan Horse : http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4024821.

Winner : Dknowle's "Indian Giver".

Week 25 : Leylines

This week saw multiple cards being in the contest : all of the Leylines! http://community.wizards.com/forum/cards-and-combos/threads/4067621

Winner : POSValkir1's "Laying the Battle Lines".

Changing the rules to essentially state that life total was more relelvant than anything else would make all decks with other win conditions strictly worse.  It would be highly biased in favor of aggro decks that can get some quick damage in early in the game.



Although I agree with not changing it, I don't think it would cause as many problems as you think since most matches don't go to time.


That's exactly right, it would actually change very little as far as the outcome of tournament matches. Most of the time you'd never know the difference and it will not change the WAY that people play, only encourage moving the game along.

The problem with the current system, if we assume there is a problem and would like to actually encourage players to keep the pace up rather than stalling(which, as someone pointed out, really cannot even be objectively enforced) is that if a player wins the first round of a match they get the opportunity to stall the ENTIRE rest of the match no matter what the opponent does. With the system I proposed both players must be proactive and manage time fairly - if I'm down on life I HAVE to make something happen, it doesn't matter how many rounds I've won. Most of the time encouraging the race wouldn't do anything more than just promote good fundamentals (the players should be racing in some respect anyway.) With the direction the game is taking these days it's rare to see tournament builds that do not win by dealing lethal AND cannot complete a match in less than an hour. Even if your deck can drag on that long it's going to have issues with the time limit under either set of rules.


Maybe my proposal isn't so refined, there might be a similar way to do it that would serve the purpose better and more fairly, but as far as I can see something like this should more or less do the job, which is to make sure the player who is up on rounds would only benefit from stalling the game maybe 20-30% of the time rather than 100% of the time and allow a largely unenforceable rule to be enforced by the players themselves.



here's the problem: deck archetypes.

that's what it comes down to. in aggro v. control, for the first few turns, Aggro is coming out and dealing as much as it can while control tries to set up and slow them down. with classic control, it takes a long time for the control deck to start dealing any damage, even after it's taken over the game and is the inevitable winner. if the game legitimately goes to time, then, the faster deck in a match-up has a huge advantage. on top of that, the slower deck is likely to be the one making the games take longer, it drastically disincentivizes slower, controlling decks. yes, games won't always go to time. I don't have the data on exactly how often it happens, but saying "in the event of time being called, the deck with the lower mana curve wins" is just unfair.

it also comes down to what Taldier mentioned: in fighting games there's only one metric by which you measure success. in fighting games, if both players stop for a second, step back, and then start again, you can look during that pause and determine which of them is more likely to win the match, and it's the one with more life. that makes life total at the end a decent predicter of who was gonna win anyway. the same isn't true in magic. there's no one thing you can look at to determine who's going to win the game.

also also, it doesn't solve anything, since the player whose life total is currently higher will still be incentivized to stall. in fact, they'll be incentivized more, as they get a win instead of a draw. you're not solving the problem of stalling, just changing what happens when it happens. yes, if I'm at 1 and about to lose I can't stall out the clock for a tie, but then, being at 1 doesn't mean I'm about to lose in Magic.

 
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
If it ever became a big enough problem they could start using personal clocks (every chess tournament does this) just like on Magic online.
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
For every priority change? People would start letting triggers lapse in order to save time. I can assure you that I'd plan my decks to abuse the hell out of any such ruleschange.
76783093 wrote:
Luckily, we have stop-having-fun guys to remind us that having anything more than 60 cards in your deck is tantamount to being a rapist and anyone considering it should be strung up by their ****.
For every priority change? People would start letting triggers lapse in order to save time. I can assure you that I'd plan my decks to abuse the hell out of any such ruleschange.



Then we'd just have a judge DQ you...pretty simple.
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
For every priority change? People would start letting triggers lapse in order to save time. I can assure you that I'd plan my decks to abuse the hell out of any such ruleschange.



Then we'd just have a judge DQ you...pretty simple.


you can't disqualify people for deck construction.

well, you can if their cards are banned but that's not what he's talking about. it's perfectly legal, right now, to make a deck whose goal is to win game one but do it so slowly that there isn't time for game two, as long as that delay is a product of playing the deck correctly and at a reasonable speed. for instance, you can accomplish this with certain turbofog lists.

 
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
For every priority change? People would start letting triggers lapse in order to save time. I can assure you that I'd plan my decks to abuse the hell out of any such ruleschange.



Then we'd just have a judge DQ you...pretty simple.


you can't disqualify people for deck construction.

well, you can if their cards are banned but that's not what he's talking about. it's perfectly legal, right now, to make a deck whose goal is to win game one but do it so slowly that there isn't time for game two, as long as that delay is a product of playing the deck correctly and at a reasonable speed. for instance, you can accomplish this with certain turbofog lists.

 



This was actually a viable deck back when lorwyn was in standard.
That's not what we are talking about. I'm talking about both of us having a clock. I would just immediately press mine, you would end up clocking yourself out screwing around with your deck's features.
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
That's not what we are talking about. I'm talking about both of us having a clock. I would just immediately press mine, you would end up clocking yourself out screwing around with your deck's features.


a) how is that a judge DQing you?

b) he was talking about making you do exactly that by building a deck that made you make meaningful decisions a lot. if you choose not to, he gains a huge tactical advantage because you're making poor choices. if you do, then you spend so much time on those that you time out.

 
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
That's not what we are talking about. I'm talking about both of us having a clock. I would just immediately press mine, you would end up clocking yourself out screwing around with your deck's features.


a) how is that a judge DQing you?

b) he was talking about making you do exactly that by building a deck that made you make meaningful decisions a lot. if you choose not to, he gains a huge tactical advantage because you're making poor choices. if you do, then you spend so much time on those that you time out.

 



There aren't any decks where I'm not going to have a good idea what to do reasonably quick. EVen if I burn 5-6 minutes figuring out your super duper amazing deck I will from that point on react instantly.

bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge