Gatecrash impressions

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I know this can alter as more of the set is revealed and feel free to revise your remarks as more develops, but how do you feel about the set right now?

Excited?

Comparing it to RTR? Better or worse?

Thinking of limited?

Thinking of constructed?

Feel free to gush or complain in whatever fashion you deem fit.

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I'm excited for Gatecrash. I wish Simic had been pushed a little more as a standard viable archetype. (But RnD has never had any love for GU so whatever). Enjoying the look of limited however. Looks better than RtR but I may be bias since RtR had neither my nor my friends favorite guilds.
I'd say I'm more excited. I was mostly looking forward to Orzhov and Boros out of the block, and with both of them shoved to GTC, I had to find a guild to care about in RTR. That ended up being Azorius. I just wanted some top tier humans for my standard deck since Hero of Bladehold, Mirran Crusader, and Honor of the Pure all rotated. Not to mention, all of the good one-drops except Champion. Looking forward to more spoilers. I feel like we've barely touched on Boros.
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Me?

I think the Charms being revealed will make a big difference, but currently. I'm less excited about this set that RTR. I'm still excited, but I'll say I think it is more measured than the stupid that infected me with RTR. I do feel that it was warranted though, Return to Ravnica lived up to the hype IMHO.

Currently, the mythics are fun. I don't like them as well as RTR's mythics right out of the gate. I'm most excited about Obdezat. I also felt the planeswalkers in RTR were more exciting. I do feel Domri Rade is still pretty cool. Rares I'm a bit less than excited about, but there are still some enthusiasm for more than a handful.

As I stated though, the uncommons like guildmages and charms can hype me right back up. One of the things that I liked most in RTR were the "little things."

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hmmm I thought simic has pretty good cards that helps with both WBU and BUG. Dimir and Orzhov's mechanics pretty much screams "play Esper", boros and gruul both appeals to red/x aggro. Gruul gives more crazy creatures to Jund.

GTC is more about reinforcing current format, where I think RTR is more unique, though that might just because of Izzet. 
I'm looking forward to it, but I have to say my exitement meter is down for GTC.
Cypher.

It would fit better as an Izzet keyword. (cast spells like crazy)  I think the flavor is a bit wrong with a guild that's subtle and covert rather than going all out guns blazing (which this ability is based on)
We could all think of a number of mechanics that would fit perfectly with Dimir. But since they won't put existing abilities because they think we won't buy the set if they do, we'll have to settle with this.

Saving grace, good synergy with extort.

Evolve.

Great flavor, simple and elegant mechanic. Limited constructed applications due to it's exponential nature. You either play some med-large creatures or you don't touch it. But overall well done. Not something that will have you on the ropes easily though. Dealing with it isn't hard. More of an issue in limited

Extort

Perfect flavor.
Ability is a skill trap.  Lot of players will lose games giving too much board position to their opponent, trying to trigger it as much as possible.

Batallion 

The flavor is good, but since it's combat based, I wish they had used a verb as the keyword. It's the most basic guild ability in RTR. It's is also the easiest to get around after evolve. And also encourages throwing yourself into mass removal. But it's in colors that take that risk anyway. I was wishing for something more exciting after radiance though. (Now that I think of it, they should have kept the original word, Assault)

Bloodrush 
 

Red and green are severly disadvantaged in the card advantage and versatility area. This doesn't give you CA per-se, but it's a trick that your opponent cannot counter and green does have hexprof creatures. Not as much of a deal for red since you could just play burn instead. But it gives green some reach without sacrificing the creature density in the deck. And it gives you choices during play beyond attack or not. And it'S totally gruul.

There aren't enough cards spoiled for me to comment on the set as a whole. But because there are always many options, it's hard for a multicolor set to fail.

Very excited, and not just because my two favourite guilds, and colour combinations are present.

Shaping up to be a good year for Magic, I reckon! 

DCI Judge Level 1

Very excited, and not just because my two favourite guilds, and colour combinations are present.

Shaping up to be a good year for Magic, I reckon! 



Dimir/orzhov?
It looks pretty unplayable so far.

3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

Alas, no - my two favourite are and .

Thus, with Simic and Gruul I'm very at home in Gatecrash.

I loved the and cards in the Lorwyn blocks, so much so in fact I'm looking forwards to a Selkie crocodile frog fusion beatdown, and let's not get started on what Runes of the Deus will do on the new aggro cards!

DCI Judge Level 1

I'm excited for Gatecrash. I wish Simic had been pushed a little more as a standard viable archetype. (But RnD has never had any love for GU so whatever). Enjoying the look of limited however. Looks better than RtR but I may be bias since RtR had neither my nor my friends favorite guilds.



what were those 2 guilds

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I'm excited for Gatecrash. I wish Simic had been pushed a little more as a standard viable archetype. (But RnD has never had any love for GU so whatever). Enjoying the look of limited however. Looks better than RtR but I may be bias since RtR had neither my nor my friends favorite guilds.



what were those 2 guilds


I am Simic, my bestie is Orzhov
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139359831 wrote:
I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
It looks pretty unplayable so far.



I'm with you.

Limited looks fun, but outside of that and Obzedat, shock lands, High priest of penance, and clan defiance or whatever that gruul x spell is, it's looking kind of bad for constructed.  Auriella and Lazav look great for EDH.  Most of the mythics though feel like Lux Cannon.  They're just not that exciting.

I do think a big problem I'm not seeing yet is there is little to no removal spoiled.  There's surely to be a sweeper.  We haven't had anything like Dreadbore, Detention Sphere, or Abrupt Decay spoiled yet, so I have some hope that they're going to bring in better cards towards the end of the set reveal.  We have Dimir Charm and that sorcery uncommon deal damage equal to your lands you control card really as the only removal.

The planeswalkers stink.  You've got Domri, who's not bad if you are going to play 35 creatures.  Then, he just seems kinda bad.  Then there's Gideon "I'm not nearly as good as Jura."

It looks pretty unplayable so far.



+1 This set is worse than RtR by a significant margin I'm not looking forward to it at all.

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Thinking of what guild I want to be at the prerelease

Boros: The answer if you want to win and don't care about style.  Boros are the dumbest thing ever, but also the most basic and effective strategy: throw aggressive creatures into the red zone until you win

Simic: The answer for winning with style.  Evolve is very strong, especially when you curve into some guildless or borrowed gruul green fatties at the end.

Grull: If you like your pool being a coinflip, you like gruul.  Sometimes they'll get some awesome cards and be on par with boros, the rest of the time they'll get stuck with the dregs of their guild and end up on the Dimir's level.  The same could be true of any pool, but the gruul seem the most likely to be swingy

Orzhov: If you like losing in style, Orzhov seems like the way to go.  Not that they can't win: they'll probably outperform gruul on average, but Extort is a trap that it will be far too easy to fall into.

Dimir: If you like losing big, go dimir.  Everything about them is terrible.  Cipher is TERRIBLE (paying more for marginal spells to get a dubious and stupidly fragile long-term 'advantage'), the cipher spells are TERRIBLE, their charm is... well, it's not strictly terrible but it's not great either: you'll always use the middle option and that's strictly worse than terminate.  Their guildmage fails so hard compared to the others terrible would be a compliment.  Their keyrune is pretty spiffy, but then you get around to their prerelease card, and it's by FAR the worst of the lot.  This makes me sad, because flavor-wise they're my favorite guild of all

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Thinking of what guild I want to be at the prerelease



Dimir: If you like losing big, go dimir.  Everything about them is terrible.  Cipher is TERRIBLE (paying more for marginal spells to get a dubious and stupidly fragile long-term 'advantage'), the cipher spells are TERRIBLE, their charm is... well, it's not strictly terrible but it's not great either: you'll always use the middle option and that's strictly worse than terminate.  Their guildmage fails so hard compared to the others terrible would be a compliment.  Their keyrune is pretty spiffy, but then you get around to their prerelease card, and it's by FAR the worst of the lot.  This makes me sad, because flavor-wise they're my favorite guild of all



Considering that Dimir has both a heavy mill subtheme and the msot evasive creatures in the set (according to MaRo) I'd say it's a little too early to call it the worst guild in limited.  Also removal that can respond to sorceries tends to be rare in limited, so I'd say Cipher has a lot of potential there as well.  In fact, I have no idea what you're basing any of your claims on at all. A lot of the set has yet to be revealed.

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Thinking of what guild I want to be at the prerelease



Dimir: If you like losing big, go dimir.  Everything about them is terrible.  Cipher is TERRIBLE (paying more for marginal spells to get a dubious and stupidly fragile long-term 'advantage'), the cipher spells are TERRIBLE, their charm is... well, it's not strictly terrible but it's not great either: you'll always use the middle option and that's strictly worse than terminate.  Their guildmage fails so hard compared to the others terrible would be a compliment.  Their keyrune is pretty spiffy, but then you get around to their prerelease card, and it's by FAR the worst of the lot.  This makes me sad, because flavor-wise they're my favorite guild of all



Considering that Dimir has both a heavy mill subtheme and the msot evasive creatures in the set (according to MaRo) I'd say it's a little too early to call it the worst guild in limited.



from whats been released it is easily the worst guild, followed by :B::W: lets hope that changes before it is released on the 26th
Overall I think the mechanics are more clunky that RTR and it looks like Cipher was too powerful to stick on anything costed decently (so far). I am also less excited about the rares and mythics in this set. There are a couple mythics that I like, but generally the rares are lame.
It looks pretty unplayable so far.



+1 This set is worse than RtR by a significant margin I'm not looking forward to it at all.


To be fair, you never look forward to anything, based on the content of your posts.
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
It looks pretty unplayable so far.



+1 This set is worse than RtR by a significant margin I'm not looking forward to it at all.


To be fair, you never look forward to anything, based on the content of your posts.


+1 This is the worst poster by a significant margin, and I'm not looking forward to it at all.
Remember Unleash, guys? :3 
@ Tevish, I'm mostly going to agree with you, however a few things:

Boros: I expect Boros to have a strong showing at most preleases, as it seems that even the 1 cmc common Battallioneers will be effective enough.  Still, we haven't seen much from the guild so its  going to depend on what else it gets.  It has the best Promo of all the guilds in the set, and will be a beatdown and a half.  That said, it may run out of steam fairly quickly if you either don't get a good pool of Battallion cards, or don't get some decent mid-range creatures.  I think it will explode out of the gates and hard, but once the mid-game comes around it may have some problems.

Gruul:  I'm gonna have to disagree rather heavily on this.  Much of what we've seen from Gruul is rather efficient Commons/Uncommons with affordable Bloodrush that isn't terribly expensive.  Given what we know so far, it shouldn't have much of a problem shoring up the mid-game at all what with the Rampager and Swine being about, and it absolutely will not have a problem finishing the game.  Their major weakness is going to be the early game, however if you're lucky enough to pull the Emissary or two it should have the efficiency to shore things up. 

Simic:  This is the dodgy guild, methinks.  It relies heavily on hitting your curve, every turn, and is significantly weakened if you don't.  Those early game evolvers also have little impact if drawn late in the game, less so than normal creatures usually associated with the cost.  So I imagine this will be the coin-flip guild, and will rely on skillful mulligans moreso than any other guild.

As for Dimir, I mostly agree. Cipher is a great concept, however most of the game-changing ones come about way to late to really change the game in your favor by that point.  Hands of Binding is nice utility in limited, however without a more solid win-con, Dimir is going to have a rough time.  Still, Dimir seems like it can rather seemless move from one strategy to the next, depending on the current board state.  I think that if a player gets a strong Dimir cardpool, they can devastate most any opponent with relatively ease.  However the middle-of-the-ground cardpools will just have a poor showing if you go straight dimir.
Thinking of what guild I want to be at the prerelease

Boros: The answer if you want to win and don't care about style.  Boros are the dumbest thing ever, but also the most basic and effective strategy: throw aggressive creatures into the red zone until you win

Simic: The answer for winning with style.  Evolve is very strong, especially when you curve into some guildless or borrowed gruul green fatties at the end.

Grull: If you like your pool being a coinflip, you like gruul.  Sometimes they'll get some awesome cards and be on par with boros, the rest of the time they'll get stuck with the dregs of their guild and end up on the Dimir's level.  The same could be true of any pool, but the gruul seem the most likely to be swingy

Orzhov: If you like losing in style, Orzhov seems like the way to go.  Not that they can't win: they'll probably outperform gruul on average, but Extort is a trap that it will be far too easy to fall into.

Dimir: If you like losing big, go dimir.  Everything about them is terrible.  Cipher is TERRIBLE (paying more for marginal spells to get a dubious and stupidly fragile long-term 'advantage'), the cipher spells are TERRIBLE, their charm is... well, it's not strictly terrible but it's not great either: you'll always use the middle option and that's strictly worse than terminate.  Their guildmage fails so hard compared to the others terrible would be a compliment.  Their keyrune is pretty spiffy, but then you get around to their prerelease card, and it's by FAR the worst of the lot.  This makes me sad, because flavor-wise they're my favorite guild of all



well. Dimir you're playing a multifront war. Milling WILL be their main strategy in limited, given 40 cards and how little lands gruul, simic and boros will be playing and the lack of any real anti-mill cards in this set. But it's more about realizing Dimir is setting up the board for that last wtf moment where you think you're safe and suddenly you lose. You'll never attack any creature (unless they're unblockable) unless they did, because counter-intuitively cipher is enough a threat even without the combat damage, that opponents will hold back to assign blockers; milling is about more making them lose card advantage. The guildmage is another set-up; mostly for control (know that 1 non-permanent enemy cast= losing 1x life). Let them find their strategies to build up, then make them lose poetically. You're missing the point really; playing dimir require flexibility and radical changes in strategies. Dimir is potential the most fun guild to play; that's why I liked mill, it was fun.
It looks pretty unplayable so far.



+1 This set is worse than RtR by a significant margin I'm not looking forward to it at all.

It's WAY too early to be making judgments.

We haven't seen the overwhelming majority of the commons and uncommons, which are the heart and soul of limited.

As far as the spoiled stuff goes, I think people are severely underestimating Zegana's impact. Bant and BUG are both going to want her...Wolfir Silverheart in the former and Corpsejack Menace create a massive advantage over the opponent when they curve into her.

Team America is going to officially be crazy with Aurelia's Fury backing up Sphinx's Revelation, in addition to the rest of the removal.

We're going to see an effective mill combo deck in Modern with the combination of Duskmantle Guildmage and Mindcrank that can consistently win.

Crypt Ghast is likewise going to be a powerful engine for many black-oriented decks. 

Boros Charm and Rootborn Defenses officially mean weenie decks can start feeling safer in overextending.
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The lands seem playable.
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For limited, I'm thinking boros and gruul are looking very strong, not sure how orzhov will shape out, and I have no idea how dimir is supposed to withstand a boros onslaught. Of course all we see right now are mostly rares and uncommons - can't wait to see more commons to get a better feel.
On the cards....

Little bit underwhelmed to be honest, but still looking forward to the prerelease. As things stand, it seems as though the turn-sideways guilds (boros, gruul) are going to be a little too powerful to beat with more thinking cards. I'm hoping that will change, but otherwise it will be a sadly dumbed-down limited environment.

On the prices...

I know I'm never happy about singles prices, but I can't help but think that even by today's standards the prices of the top mythics so far is staggeringly overpriced:

www.magicmadhouse.co.uk/magic-the-gather...

Gideon @ £25 ($37)
Domi @ £20 ($30)
Ghost Council @ £20 ($30)

Surely these cards aren't even worth half that? I shudder to think how much the price gougers will put on the new mythic burn spell, given the fuss over it. My guess is £30 ($45), ie. bonfire levels.

Also sad to see that the one rare so far I have been interested in getting four of, high priest of penance, is already at £3. I think its probably the right price once people catch up, but I'd hoped to pick this up cheaply before then.
People keep talking about how crazy powerful Gruul is (which is cool with me, because R/G is my favorite color combo), but Boros is where the real craziness is happening...which sucks for me because i hate (HATE) white.  From what's been spoiled so far, i'd say Boros aggro will rule limited, Gruul (Bloodrush as an ender) will be the most splashed for (but by itself, CA will kill it if you can't win very quickly), Orzhov and Dimir will be incredibly underrated and skilled control players (and/or Esper players) will win countless tourneys, and Simic got shafted like no other.  As stated above and i've said before, we still have yet to see most of the commons/uncommons, and commons make up the heart of any limited deck.  Common removal changes everything, which is why i think Orzhov and Dimir are going to be good.  I doubt it will be a Doom Blade, but i think we're going to get a Grasp of Darkness type card that will give black mages a serious boost.       
There are other things in Simic besides evolve creatures guys.
I think aggro will be better in this limited environment than RTR. It was hard to just derp aggro RTR draft because of populate. That mechanic dumped chumps all over the board. Detain also stalled tempo until someone got out their Trimvirate or whatever. In other words, I see Boros and Gruul aggro being better than Rakdos/Golgari. Boros particularly get improved 1 and 2 drops as the game state grows. Still, Boros removal appears non-existent. Unless you luck into good rares or do it through combat tricks.

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I also think Simic can be good in draft. I think it synergizes the best out of all the guilds with the evolve mechanic. I think they will be able to stall effectively. I do think sealed will be iffy though. You'd need a good pool.

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it looks like it will really shake up limited and there's a lot of good multiplayer cards.  i don't play limited or multiplayer.
it looks like it will really shake up limited and there's a lot of good multiplayer cards.  i don't play limited or multiplayer.



You can just skip this one and wait for the next set.
Cypher.

It would fit better as an Izzet keyword. (cast spells like crazy)  I think the flavor is a bit wrong with a guild that's subtle and covert rather than going all out guns blazing (which this ability is based on)
We could all think of a number of mechanics that would fit perfectly with Dimir. But since they won't put existing abilities because they think we won't buy the set if they do, we'll have to settle with this.

Saving grace, good synergy with extort.



I think they choose cipher for Dimir because, after Izzet, Dimir is the guild that uses instants and sorceries the most. Unblockable fits the "hidden" flavor, so cipher's synergy fits.

Bloodrush 
 

Red and green are severly disadvantaged in the card advantage and versatility area. This doesn't give you CA per-se, but it's a trick that your opponent cannot counter and green does have hexprof creatures. Not as much of a deal for red since you could just play burn instead. But it gives green some reach without sacrificing the creature density in the deck. And it gives you choices during play beyond attack or not. And it'S totally gruul.

There aren't enough cards spoiled for me to comment on the set as a whole. But because there are always many options, it's hard for a multicolor set to fail.




Green gets card draw, but it has to involve creatures. Blue can draw cards however it wants, and black has to pay life or sacrifice creatures or lands for cards. Red just gets looting, and I'm not sure what white would do besides enchantresses.

(Every color gets card advantage. Red gets it by two-for-one.)
139359831 wrote:
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I think they choose cipher for Dimir because, after Izzet, Dimir is the guild that uses instants and sorceries the most. Unblockable fits the "hidden" flavor, so cipher's synergy fits.



Yes, unblockable fits dimir's flavor. Cypher doesn't. 

Green gets card draw, 
but it has to involve creatures. Blue can draw cards however it wants, and black has to pay life or sacrifice creatures or lands for cards. Red just gets looting, and I'm not sure what white would do besides enchantresses.

(Every color gets card advantage. Red gets it by two-for-one.) 


Not sure what your point is here. Severly disadvantage doesn't mean they don't get card draw or CA, it means....they're disadvantaged. Either they don't get as much, or what they get is bad (or both)
You don't need to take my word for it. If you look it up, it doesn't even compare. 

But no, green's card draw doesn't have to involve creatures. It's #2 at card draw because of land fetching like rampant growth.  White gets the occasional cantrip, but generally does not draw cards (it tends to get undercosted creatures, and it can deal with any permanent type so card draw would kind of break it
It's theoretically #2, but in practice, it goes black, blue, green.
139359831 wrote:
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---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I think aggro will be better in this limited environment than RTR. It was hard to just derp aggro RTR draft because of populate. That mechanic dumped chumps all over the board. Detain also stalled tempo until someone got out their Trimvirate or whatever. In other words, I see Boros and Gruul aggro being better than Rakdos/Golgari. Boros particularly get improved 1 and 2 drops as the game state grows. Still, Boros removal appears non-existent. Unless you luck into good rares or do it through combat tricks.



Boros has removal with Firemane Avenger, Aurelia's Fury, and Five-Alarm Fire.

I'm definetely picking Boros for the prerelease, although Gruul does have a lot of versitility with Bloodrush.
Boros has removal with Firemane Avenger, Aurelia's Fury, and Five-Alarm Fire.

I'm definetely picking Boros for the prerelease, although Gruul does have a lot of versitility with Bloodrush.



Those are all rare though.

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It's theoretically #2, but in practice, it goes black, blue, green.



R&D sets it based on how many such spells a color gets. And blue always has the most.
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