Ryviel, bladestorm duelist. (tips)

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Hey all. I've been considering re-rolling to another character after some sketchy rulings regarding my Avenger (Oath + Relentless Slayer's lvl 12 utility). I'm thinking about rolling a 2 weapoon fighter with the following build...

Half-Orc Fighter, lvl 12. 
Fighter Option: Combat Agility
Fighter Talent Option: Tempest Technique
Theme: Samurai (Light blades)
Backgroud: Athlete (+2 Acrobatics)
Paragon: Bladestorm Duelist

Strength 14 + 5 = 19 
Constitution 10 + 1 = 11
Dexterity 18 + 5 = 23
Intelligence 10 + 1  11
Wisdom 11 + 1 = 12
Charisma 8 + 1 = 9

AC: 31 
Fort: 26
Ref: 30
Will: 21
Init: +13

Trained skills:

Acrobatics
Athletics
Endurance
Heal 

Powers:  

At-Will:

Dual Strike
Footwork Lure
 
Encounter:

Funneling Flurry
Advanced Lunge
Kirre's Roar (Utility)
Sudden Surge
Blade Feint

Daily:

Tempest Dance
Defensive Stance (Utility)
Nimble Bladestorm
Punishing Storm
Enter the Crucible (Utility)

Feats:

Midnight Blade Student
Midnight Blade Brawler
Improved Defenses
Two-Weapon fighting 
Light Blade Expertise
Two-Blade Warrior (Multiclass Ranger)
Agile Tempest
Two Weapon Opening 

Equipment:

Main: Shielding Blade Rapier +2
Off: Rhythym Blade Rapier +1 
Armor: Magic Hide Armor +2
Neck: Amulet of Protection +2

I'm pretty happy with  this character after all of the tweaks I've done. I figured I'd open it to discussion and see what some experienced players thought, and if they have any revisions before this monster hits the table in the near future. 
I could point out that combat agility is worse than combat superiority. I could ask why you didn't take Rain of Blows, all of your Encounter Power choices are terrible. I could mention that only Tempest Dance is good, out of your dailies, or that Midnight Blade is wasted feats. I could ask why you're spending a feat to gain +1 damage instead of a feat to gain +2 or more damage.

But the real question that needs to be asked of anyone going Tempest: Why not just be a Ranger or Ranger|Cleric, MC Fighter, and just be better at nearly everything?
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I could point out that combat agility is worse than combat superiority. I could ask why you didn't take Rain of Blows, all of your Encounter Power choices are terrible. I could mention that only Tempest Dance is good, out of your dailies, or that Midnight Blade is wasted feats. I could ask why you're spending a feat to gain +1 damage instead of a feat to gain +2 or more damage.

But the real question that needs to be asked of anyone going Tempest: Why not just be a Ranger or Ranger|Cleric, MC Fighter, and just be better at nearly everything?



Fair points.

I'm a striker at heart. However, in my party we don't have a dedicated defender (my Avenger is the closest thing). This is because our tank isn't very good at tanking, and doesn't show up to games consistently. So rather than play a meatshield that just gets thumped for the entire session with paltry mods to attack, I figured I'd try to create something to take the heat off of my party and be able to dish fairly consistent damage. I considered a 2-hand Fighter but the defenses were lacking. I considered a shield fighter but the offense was lacking. This is an attempt at a pseudo off-tank.

There were two things that I selected my daily/encounters for.... Mobility and multiple hits. Multiple attacks allow me to keep aggro via my combat challenge on multiple targets. My mobility (in theory) allows for me to maintain good positioning for OA's and peeling.

Now, rather than simply point out flaws in my power choices, I'd love if you had some suggestions or ammendments to those choices. Always open to ideas.

Edit : Midnight Blade was for a lot of flavor.
You're clearly an MMO player. Stop thinking of Defenders like WoW tanks, they aren't, they're more like WoW rogues than anything.

Anyway, as far as advice vs criticism, You have the right idea in terms of multi-attack and mobility being good, but you're picking the wrong one at the wrong level, check out these builds: Super-Scrag and Mr Smith with some small tweaks (Race to Goliath, Flails + flail stuff, and the Guardian Theme, in particular).
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

  1. You are using a lot of MMO language.  Make sure you aren't thinking like an MMO.  NObody should be good at tanking or offtanking.  They should be good at being a melee controller that prevents things from eating your squishies while you murder them.

  2. You are playing a fighter and you are worried about your "paltry mods to attack" yet your attack stat is laughably low? Why is your Dex higher than your Str?

  3. Midnight Blade is terrible.  If you want to take it for flavor, knock yourself out but it is a really bad set of abilities.

  4. Improved Defenses is good, although with your stats getting Superior Will is completely off the table.  Not that it has to be in every defender build, but you need a good reason not to.  That combined with your low strength is confusing.

  5. Two Weapon fighting is +1 to damage rolls.  In paragon Weapon Focus is +2 to damage rolls base.  So, why Two Weapon fighting before Weapon Focus?

  6. Two-blade warrior makes it seem like you kinda know what you want to do (make a Ranger|Cleric) but are trying to resist.  Not sure why it is worth it in your build.  Why not MC Avenger for the ability to nova better?

  7. Agile Tempest is not worth it when you have a lot of other places to get other things (Weapon Focus for example for more damage).

  8. How much is Samurai really doing for you?  With no Initiative Op you won't be getting the expanded crit very often, with no expanded crit the other part is kinda meh at best.  Why not pick a better theme?

  9. Why Two-Weapon Opening?  Your crit is only on a 20 unless I missed something.  No Crit op makes it meh.

  10. Bladestorm isn't a terrible choice of PP, but it should lean you towards having the Wis to get sup will if just for the extra initiative.  And there are a lot better PPs (even in the fighter area).

  11. I'll leave alone the power choices.  There is a lot of badness (lack of RoB being the most notable exclusion) but lets start with this.


Even if you don't see yourself playing it.  Make a DW Ranger|Cleric/Fighter/Tactical Warpriest.  Just for comparision.  It doesn't mark (until level 16) but it does everything else you want it to do (including punish things whether they are marked or not).  Just flashing one together real fast the defenses look something like this: 30/26/25/25 with your same level of equipment and feat investment.  Also, making STR a primary means that your attack rolls won't be terrible The hybrid I just made is sitting at +19 to attack rolls instead of +15 or +16 (Which is where you seem to be.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
You're clearly an MMO player. Stop thinking of Defenders like WoW tanks, they aren't, they're more like WoW rogues than anything.

Anyway, as far as advice vs criticism, You have the right idea in terms of multi-attack and mobility being good, but you're picking the wrong one at the wrong level, check out these builds: Super-Scrag and Mr Smith with some small tweaks (Race to Goliath, Flails + flail stuff, and the Guardian Theme, in particular).



Yes, I used MMO terms. However, they basically function the same way. The purpose of the defender (from what I understand) is to prevent/hinder opponents from targeting the less durable people on your team. This is usually by soaking damage or having absurdly high defenses. Nothing wrong with that by any means.... But as a defender you are typically trading your ability to hit effectively for a more durable approach. The thing I love about Tempest Fighters is that they can garnish some pretty strong defenses while being able to still dish decent damage and have some pretty reasonable hit mods (+18) with decent damage mods (+9). Not to mention that I'm a sucker for dual wielding in my character concepts. 

Anyways, I appreciate you taking the time to offer advice. I'll check out those builds later, and if you have anything else to offer, I'll definitely entertain those ideas.

Still open to other thoughts on the build though, from other people.  
That is the purpose of defenders, however, the ability to soak damage and havign good defences is only half the equation, and the less important half at that - the main point of a defender is to leave the enemy with no good choices.  If your defender can't hit for toffee and does damage if he does equivalent to hitting WITH toffee, then he's no threat to the monsters, and they will ignore him.

You shouldn't ever sacrifice to-hit in this game, it's too important.

If you want to be a defender, Tempest is not a good brand of fighter.  If you want to be a striker, tempest is not a good brand of anythign, and you can accomplish the same goals (including very effective off-defending) with a ranger|cleric (Mighty Hew, Disruptive Strike, Blade Dancer for Cross-Body Parry, or Tactical Warpriest, Battle Awareness interrupt etc - you can easilywind up with more interrupts than you have rounds to use them in), and be a competent to excellent striker into the bargain.

The take-home message is that if you're hard to hit and damage, but non-threatening in your attacks, you get ignored.  There's no aggro mechanic forcing enemies to attack you if you engage them.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.

Yes, I used MMO terms. However, they basically function the same way. The purpose of the defender (from what I understand) is to prevent/hinder opponents from targeting the less durable people on your team. This is usually by soaking damage or having absurdly high defenses. Nothing wrong with that by any means.... But as a defender you are typically trading your ability to hit effectively for a more durable approach. The thing I love about Tempest Fighters is that they can garnish some pretty strong defenses while being able to still dish decent damage and have some pretty reasonable hit mods (+18) with decent damage mods (+9). Not to mention that I'm a sucker for dual wielding in my character concepts. 

Anyways, I appreciate you taking the time to offer advice. I'll check out those builds later, and if you have anything else to offer, I'll definitely entertain those ideas.

Still open to other thoughts on the build though, from other people.  



I posted a bunch of thoughts.

Also What you listed aren't the accepted ideas for defenders.  They are not designed to have absurdly high defenses, or soak a ton of damage.  They are designed to cripple/kill opponents, set up lose-lose situations and control the battlefield.  Read about how Polearm Momentum works and that gives you an ok idea of what you are going for.  You want your defenses to be within 5 of the party so that the monster has to make a real choice.  Attack you, with a lower chance of hitting, or risk punishment.  If you trade your ability to "hit effectively" you aren't giving the monster a choice.  The choice is to ignore you and your crap damage and eat your allies.

As far as the +hit, would you mind breaking that down?  I don't see +18 but maybe I miscounted.

Edit: To hit is something like this:
1/2 level (6) + Enhancement (2)+ Expertise (2)+ Prof (3) + Stat (4) = +17  Unless tempest gives +1 hit and then you are only slightly behind due to your low STR (but why you wouldn't want an extra +2 hit is beyond me).

Edit 2: Tempest says weapons with the offhand property, but Rapiers don't have that.  So you don't get the extra +1 to hit. (Fairly sure, but I could be wrong)
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I'd like to second the confusion about having that low a Strength. Hitting is important.

Not sure where you get +18 to hit, rapiers don't have the off-hand property. +6 level +4 str +2 enh +2 feat +3 prof = 17

Anyway, with the good flail and kensei PP, the strait up fighter would have +21 to hit and deal 1d10+14 on all attacks. Tempest was really poorly designed and only works well for 1 encounter per day.

Anyway, there's Passing Attack which lets you shift and attacks 2 targets, level 3 rain of blows is dealing 3d10+27 damage to one target, and at level 7 Come and Get It is a staple power of grouping enemies up next to you. Rain of Steel is the go-to level 5 due to it being free damage, and of course Thicket of Blades at level 9 because it's the best power in the game (not really, but it APs well with CaGI)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I'd like to second the confusion about having that low a Strength. Hitting is important.

Not sure where you get +18 to hit, rapiers don't have the off-hand property. +6 level +4 str +2 enh +2 feat +3 prof = 17

Anyway, with the good flail and kensei PP, the strait up fighter would have +21 to hit and deal 1d10+14 on all attacks. Tempest was really poorly designed and only works well for 1 encounter per day.

Anyway, there's Passing Attack which lets you shift and attacks 2 targets, level 3 rain of blows is dealing 3d10+27 damage to one target, and at level 7 Come and Get It is a staple power of grouping enemies up next to you. Rain of Steel is the go-to level 5 due to it being free damage, and of course Thicket of Blades at level 9 because it's the best power in the game (not really, but it APs well with CaGI)



Get double blade proficiency might be a good swap out for a feat, since you can save an enhancement cost, (though i think you can enchant both ones seperatley) and it has the defensive property boosting ur defense also Kensai or shock trooper work way better as paragon paths for a tempest fighter, and i think there is a double flail which has the offhand property does d8 damage but i aint sure about the to-hit.
Hybrid ranger|tempest fighter with short swords. 2 classes of the absurdly well supported martial archetype, both with an amazing power selection.
what role are you looking to fill with this character? when i hear "duelist," i think of a rogue.

what are you looking to gain from being a fighter?
I know you're getting some... aggresive commentary here, but if you change nothing else, please please bump your STR. Your primary stat needs to be your highest stat, and accuracy really needs to be a priority if you intend to do any kind of damage. You also need Rain of Blows.

Everyone's suggesting hybrids because fighter just doesn't lose that much by hybriding (and neither do ranger or cleric for that matter), and you gain a bunch of better powers for dual wielders.  Fighter|Ranger can be a lot of fun - just try out a build and see what you think.
As was mentioned earlier, Guardian is an excellent theme choice for a defender, or striker build.

Elemental Initiate is also a very solid choice.  Bonus to Will, Ki Focuses to help with keeping up two weapons if you keep that part, and an immediate reaction power.

Also of note is Ironwrought.  Damage Reduction while bloodied, and an encounter power to help you hit is a solid package.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
I'd like to second the confusion about having that low a Strength. Hitting is important.

Not sure where you get +18 to hit, rapiers don't have the off-hand property. +6 level +4 str +2 enh +2 feat +3 prof = 17

Anyway, with the good flail and kensei PP, the strait up fighter would have +21 to hit and deal 1d10+14 on all attacks. Tempest was really poorly designed and only works well for 1 encounter per day.

Anyway, there's Passing Attack which lets you shift and attacks 2 targets, level 3 rain of blows is dealing 3d10+27 damage to one target, and at level 7 Come and Get It is a staple power of grouping enemies up next to you. Rain of Steel is the go-to level 5 due to it being free damage, and of course Thicket of Blades at level 9 because it's the best power in the game (not really, but it APs well with CaGI)


All of this +1. You could also combo the fun of, if allowed, Mark of storm/Flail Expertise/Lightning Lail/Lighning Shard for some proning on all your melee powers. Add a heavy shield and the great fighter shield feats then go about grouping enemies up, knocking them down and putting them to the lash. Being someone who has played Fighters extensively, trust me, taking a licking while still asskicking should never be a problem.
I know you're getting some... aggresive commentary here, but if you change nothing else, please please bump your STR. Your primary stat needs to be your highest stat, and accuracy really needs to be a priority if you intend to do any kind of damage. You also need Rain of Blows.

Everyone's suggesting hybrids because fighter just doesn't lose that much by hybriding (and neither do ranger or cleric for that matter), and you gain a bunch of better powers for dual wielders.  Fighter|Ranger can be a lot of fun - just try out a build and see what you think.



Hopefully all my commentary isn't seen as "aggressive" .
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
I know you're getting some... aggresive commentary here, but if you change nothing else, please please bump your STR. Your primary stat needs to be your highest stat, and accuracy really needs to be a priority if you intend to do any kind of damage. You also need Rain of Blows.

Everyone's suggesting hybrids because fighter just doesn't lose that much by hybriding (and neither do ranger or cleric for that matter), and you gain a bunch of better powers for dual wielders.  Fighter|Ranger can be a lot of fun - just try out a build and see what you think.



Hopefully all my commentary isn't seen as "aggressive" .

Well, not gonna lie. A little intimidated by so much knowledge, haha. Last night after my last post I changed up a couple of things. First thing I did was swap my Dex and Str scores. My mods as of now are +19 hit with a +11 damage mod. Also, the reason why I was able to use the Rapier as an off-hand was the multi-class feat that I took. 

All of the lightning lashing made me wonder if you guys might be able to help me with an idea I had a while ago.... I was looking at doing a Ranger/Paladin with "Bless Weapon" and dual wielding a Paired Weapon. The idea was simply to bless the paired weapon, split it, and enjoy the extra damage mods + increased crit range/damage on the dual strikes. The main issue that I had was finding a solid self reliant way to grant radiant vulnerability. 

I am considering either respeccing completely and trying to mess around with hybrid. Also, simple question.... Can you take a paragon path from a multiclass?
Yes.  That is one of the main reasons to multiclass.

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?
I know you're getting some... aggresive commentary here, but if you change nothing else, please please bump your STR. Your primary stat needs to be your highest stat, and accuracy really needs to be a priority if you intend to do any kind of damage. You also need Rain of Blows.

Everyone's suggesting hybrids because fighter just doesn't lose that much by hybriding (and neither do ranger or cleric for that matter), and you gain a bunch of better powers for dual wielders.  Fighter|Ranger can be a lot of fun - just try out a build and see what you think.



Hopefully all my commentary isn't seen as "aggressive" .

Well, not gonna lie. A little intimidated by so much knowledge, haha. Last night after my last post I changed up a couple of things. First thing I did was swap my Dex and Str scores. My mods as of now are +19 hit with a +11 damage mod. Also, the reason why I was able to use the Rapier as an off-hand was the multi-class feat that I took. 

All of the lightning lashing made me wonder if you guys might be able to help me with an idea I had a while ago.... I was looking at doing a Ranger/Paladin with "Bless Weapon" and dual wielding a Paired Weapon. The idea was simply to bless the paired weapon, split it, and enjoy the extra damage mods + increased crit range/damage on the dual strikes. 

I am considering either respeccing completely and trying to mess around with hybrid. Also, simple question.... Can you take a paragon path from a multiclass?  



Bless Weapon is great, but it being a daily means that optimizing a build around it isnt very practical. A paired weapon is a great way to save money, but a double-weapon can do the same thing and actually have a useful enchant.

Yes, multiclass feats qualify you for class-specific feats and PPs.

I know you're getting some... aggresive commentary here, but if you change nothing else, please please bump your STR. Your primary stat needs to be your highest stat, and accuracy really needs to be a priority if you intend to do any kind of damage. You also need Rain of Blows.

Everyone's suggesting hybrids because fighter just doesn't lose that much by hybriding (and neither do ranger or cleric for that matter), and you gain a bunch of better powers for dual wielders.  Fighter|Ranger can be a lot of fun - just try out a build and see what you think.



Hopefully all my commentary isn't seen as "aggressive" .

Well, not gonna lie. A little intimidated by so much knowledge, haha. Last night after my last post I changed up a couple of things. First thing I did was swap my Dex and Str scores. My mods as of now are +19 hit with a +11 damage mod. Also, the reason why I was able to use the Rapier as an off-hand was the multi-class feat that I took. 

All of the lightning lashing made me wonder if you guys might be able to help me with an idea I had a while ago.... I was looking at doing a Ranger/Paladin with "Bless Weapon" and dual wielding a Paired Weapon. The idea was simply to bless the paired weapon, split it, and enjoy the extra damage mods + increased crit range/damage on the dual strikes. The main issue that I had was finding a solid self reliant way to grant radiant vulnerability. 

I am considering either respeccing completely and trying to mess around with hybrid. Also, simple question.... Can you take a paragon path from a multiclass?



The question (at least that I saw) wasn't whether you could use your rapier in the offhand, it was whether you were adding Tempest Technique to your +hit (which you shouldn't).

Also, seriously consider making a Ranger|Cleric/Fighter/Tact Priest.  Just so you have a good baseline.  The class is easy to build, easy to play and really strong. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Just out of curiosity, what were the 'sketchy rulings' regarding Relentless Slayer's U12?
I'd guess the DM followed the RAI and didn't let the gained MBA benefit from oath, or enforced the Free Action Attack limit.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I'd guess the DM followed the RAI and didn't let the gained MBA benefit from oath, or enforced the Free Action Attack limit.



 Enforcing the FAAL I understand completely, but the MBA getting Oath would be very difficult if not impossible to pull off. You would need to have multiple enemies under OoE, only have 1 enemy adjacent to you, and also be able to have another within reach also adjacent to you...not sure I see how that works (unless the compendium entry on oath is wrong).
No, you're right, I wasn't thinking
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Also, the reason why I was able to use the Rapier as an off-hand was the multi-class feat that I took.

As Matyr mentioned, the reason it came up is because Tempest fighters always want to use weapons with the offhand property because 2 of the 3 Tempest bonus features require it. Short swords would have +1 more to hit and be the same damage (1d6+1 and 1d8 both average 4.5), and not require an MC feat. Take another look at the Tempest Technique wording and you'll see it.
Just out of curiosity, what were the 'sketchy rulings' regarding Relentless Slayer's U12?



I'm not actually sure what the ruling is for it... But yeah, it's really frustrating how it all is worded. I had to take a break after hitting 12 because College was dismissed for a while, and I haven't had a chance to really talk to him about it all yet. That's why my re-roll is only a consideration at this point. 

I absolutely love my Avenger and the way that I've built him. He's pretty tanky, has some survivability and has some pretty strong hits.

Maxed his Wisdom and secondary Dexterity. Drow, Censure of pursuit, Relentless Slayer, and his deity is Ioun. 

Feats:

Weapon proficiency (Full Blade)
Deadly Draw
Unarmored Agility
Improved Armor of Faith
Inexorable Pursuit
Power of Skill
Censure's Grip
Painful Oath

Powers:

Overwhelming Strike
Bond of Pursuit
Relentless Attack
Aspect of Might
Silver Shadow
Sequestering Strike
Menacing Presence
Fortifying Chant
Inexorable Pursuit
Enduring Strike
Ever Onward

Bloodthread Cloth + 1
Namassi's Soul (GM created Full Blade) + 2
Amulet of Protection + 1
Boots of Striding 

Might not be the perfect Avenger.... But I get my job done. I'm hard to kill, can dish very consitent damage, and my Overwhelming Strike is my bread and butter. I'm loving that I can use it for OA's or the FBM's that I get from the Warlord in the party. Unfortunately, due to the issues with my new utility I don't get my potential 8 Overwhelming strikes on my Warlord's turn. 

 Unfortunately, due to the issues with my new utility I don't get my potential 8 Overwhelming strikes on my Warlord's turn. 

 

You can't Overwhelming Strike more than once on your Warlord's turn regardless of any of that.  Unless that DM weapon somehow gives you No Action attacks.

Would you mind explaining the "8 overwhelming" please?
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Certainly. Also, a slight oops. I can have a potential 4 attacks via the Warlord.

Relentless Fervor (Avenger)

Daily  DivineStance
Minor Action Personal 
Effect: Until the stance ends, when you make two attack rolls because of your oath of enmity, make the rolls one at a time. If the first attack roll hits, you can choose to use the second attack roll as a melee basic attack against another enemy within reach.

Power of Skill [Domain]

Prerequisite: Any divine class, must worship a deity of the skill domain
Benefit: You gain a +1 feat bonus to trained skill checks.
You can use any power you have that is associated with this feat as a basic attack.

Associated Powers: Divine BoltsOverwhelming StrikeRighteous BrandValiant Strike


Create Opportunity (Warlord)

Daily        Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Ranged weapon



Target: One creature



Attack: Strength vs. AC



Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.



Effect: Until the end of the encounter, whenever you hit the target with a ranged attack, one ally adjacent to it can either make a melee basic attack against it as a free action or shift a number of squares equal to your Intelligence modifier or Wisdom modifier as a free action.

Race the Arrow (Warlord)


Encounter        Martial, Weapon
Standard Action      Ranged weapon


Target: One creature


Attack: Strength vs. AC


Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. One ally you can see can charge the target or make a melee basic attack against the target as a free action.


  Skirmishing Presence: The ally gains a power bonus to the attack roll and the damage roll equal to your Intelligence modifier or Wisdom modifier.




I pop Relentless Fervor. The skill domain allows me to use my Overwhelming Strike as a basic attack. Warlord uses Create Opening. On the following round he uses Race the arrow which grants me a free basic attack as well as the free basic attack from the effects of Create Opening. On each attack if I hit with my first roll I get a second which is a free basic attack. 2 x 2 = 4.

Edit: The part where I got confused momentarily is the potential there was for me to get 4 OS' on each of my own turns without an action point.  


You realize that regardless of everything else you get 1 free action attack per turn right?

So your warlord can Create Opening and give you an attack, but Race the Arrow will do nothing for you.

So you get 2 from the warlord.  He grants you an attack and then you can use your Avenger power (since it doesn't say free action). 
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Players are only allowed 1 free action attack per turn, even if they are being granted via a Warlord or other power.

Edit: 14 seconds... sneaky ninjas. 
Players are only allowed 1 free action attack per turn, even if they are being granted via a Warlord or other power.

Edit: 14 seconds... sneaky ninjas. 



I know right?  Although I did kinda set this up as I imagined what it was going to be was a lack of FAA restriction.
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Players are only allowed 1 free action attack per turn, even if they are being granted via a Warlord or other power.

Edit: 14 seconds... sneaky ninjas. 



THIS I wasn't aware of. I'm relatively new to D&D.... As you may or may not have gathered.

Edit: Is there any official ruling on how Relentless Fervor works with OoE? I haven't really found it (though I haven't checked much via Errata). Seeing as it's functionally broken unless you are at melee range with your oath with another creature within 2 while you are using a reach weapon.
Free Actions

Free actions take almost no time or effort. A creature can usually take as many free actions as it wants during any turn, including other creatures’ turns. Examples: Speaking a few sentences, dropping a held item, letting go of a grabbed creature.
    There is an exception to this rule: A creature can take a free action to use an attack power only once per turn. Creatures don’t normally have attack powers that can be used as free actions, but some powers and other effects grant the ability to use an attack power (usually a basic attack) as a free action. For instance, a character might have two different abilities that let him or her make a melee basic attack as a free action when their respective triggers occur. If both abilities are triggered on the same turn, the character can make only one of the melee basic attacks during that turn.

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To be fair, it wasnt an original rule you'll find in any of the books - it was errata'd in about a year ago or so.
To be fair, it wasnt an original rule you'll find in any of the books - it was errata'd in about a year ago or so.



We are also limited to the books that we have in our possession within the group. In our specific case, we have the Handbooks 1-3, Divine power, Martial power 1/2, and Forgotten Realms. 
To be fair, it wasnt an original rule you'll find in any of the books - it was errata'd in about a year ago or so.



We are also limited to the books that we have in our possession within the group. In our specific case, we have the Handbooks 1-3, Divine power, Martial power 1/2, and Forgotten Realms. 



Why are you limited to books when one of you has a compendium / builder?  Thats just silly.

Also, can you use Dragon Magazine?  Cause a whole new level of crapstorm is about to come in if you can't. 
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To be fair, it wasnt an original rule you'll find in any of the books - it was errata'd in about a year ago or so.



We are also limited to the books that we have in our possession within the group. In our specific case, we have the Handbooks 1-3, Divine power, Martial power 1/2, and Forgotten Realms. 



Why are you limited to books when one of you has a compendium / builder?  Thats just silly.

Also, can you use Dragon Magazine?  Cause a whole new level of crapstorm is about to come in if you can't. 



Funny you would mention that.... The guys here had a DM before the current one (old one graduated) that implemented the rule. It was an effort for us to actually support the company rather than nab all the pdf's. This was also implemented prior to this account. It's becoming a lot more lax and we may end up just abolishing it entirely. 

So long as we aren't being abusive of the old rule, our current GM isn't opposed to bending it every once in a while. 

Edit: I think you guys may have missed it.... But I did edit an above post with a question. Ya'll are just too quick. ;)

So yes you can play the game without the kid gloves on?  Or do you need permission for every power?
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So yes you can play the game without the kid gloves on?  Or do you need permission for every power?



See above post. It's not to big of a deal unless we are completely disregarding it. 
It still works.  Basically you either have a reach weapon or have a way to move into range for the second attack roll.  The only thing I'm unclear on is whether you are meant to resolve the 2nd attack roll before you resolve the first attack in its entirety.  I'll leave it to someone more rules savvy than I am.
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
So yes you can play the game without the kid gloves on?  Or do you need permission for every power?



See above post. It's not to big of a deal unless we are completely disregarding it. 



I don't know what "completely disregarding it" means.  Like are you allowed to get BCL to look at the ranger hybrid?
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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