## All players win simultaneously

21 posts / 0 new
Ichibann
Joined Sep 2010
715 Posts
What if in a two-player game both players would win simultaneously? The rules does not cover that case!
They only say that:
104.4a If all the players remaining in a game lose simultaneously, the game is a draw.

No rule says:
"If all the players remaining in a game win simultaneously, the game is a draw."

Of course in multiplayer we have:
104.3h In a multiplayer game, an effect that states that a player wins the game instead causes all of
that player’s opponents to lose the game.

So, "all players win" becomes "all players lose" and 104.4a applies.

Shard_Fenix
Joined Jan 2011
4177 Posts
You're rule-picking. If all players win, it's a draw.

It's interesting that the rules don't cover it. Maybe make thread in RT&T?

Please autocard: [c]Shard Phoenix[/c] = Shard Phoenix.

Ichibann
Joined Sep 2010
715 Posts
If all players win, it's a draw.

That is what logic and common sense say... but not rules. I don't know if it is even possible to generate such situation. It's easier to lose than to win.
Enigma256
Joined Jul 2010
14845 Posts
each player has an empty library, controls Laboratory Maniac and Jace Beleren +2
proud member of the 2011 community team
Ichibann
Joined Sep 2010
715 Posts
So... if there is no "If all the players remaining in a game win simultaneously, the game is a draw" rule does it mean than both players win and nobody loses?
Enigma256
Joined Jul 2010
14845 Posts
no, it's a draw
it might not be in the rules as such, but it is a draw

as has been said, make a thread in RT&T to ask if this hole can be closed
proud member of the 2011 community team
Ichibann
Joined Sep 2010
715 Posts
OK
Joined Dec 2011
2564 Posts
each player has an empty library, controls Laboratory Maniac and Jace Beleren +2

Even this doesn't work. The active player would win.

Rule 120.2a
If an effect instructs more than one player to draw cards, the active player performs all of his
or her draws first, then each other player in turn order does the same.
Chaikov
Joined Jun 2006
8639 Posts
So, there actually is no way to make everybody win simultaneously?

Tax evasion is nothing but legitimate self-defense against the theft that is tax collection.

cyphern
Joined Jan 2003
19353 Posts
So, there actually is no way to make everybody win simultaneously?

None that i know of.
Zauzich
Joined Feb 2010
1042 Posts
All players Control Darksteel Reactor with 20 charge counters and Abyssal Persecutor.

Detention Sphere On Persecutor.

???
Enigma256
Joined Jul 2010
14845 Posts
that's a triggered ability
those go onto the stack in APNAP order

so the least active player wins ;)
proud member of the 2011 community team
ikegami
Joined Nov 2007
2271 Posts
Ways to win a two-player game that can't result in two players winning:

• Rule 104.2a: Be the last one not to have lost.

• Triggered or activated abilities with an effect that causes a player to win the game in the effect.

• Laboratory Maniac (because of 120.2a).

Ways to win a two-player game that can result in two players winning:

Zauzich
Joined Feb 2010
1042 Posts
So when the reactors trigger the first time and Persicutor stops the win would it even trigger again when Percy leaves? Is it triggering constantly?
rudolf
Joined Sep 2005
16886 Posts
So when the reactors trigger the first time and Persicutor stops the win would it even trigger again when Percy leaves? Is it triggering constantly?

It will trigger, and when the ability resolves, it will trigger again.  (and again, etc)

mjwhitfield1
Joined Aug 2009
321 Posts
If the Abyssal Persecutor weren't exiled the game would have ended in a draw due to a non-optional infinite loop.
MRHblue
Joined Jun 2011
1026 Posts
each player has an empty library, controls Laboratory Maniac and Jace Beleren +2

Even this doesn't work. The active player would win.

Rule 120.2a
If an effect instructs more than one player to draw cards, the active player performs all of his
or her draws first, then each other player in turn order does the same.

But would not all the draws have to happen before someone would lose/win?
Joined Dec 2011
2564 Posts
Laboratory Maniac has a replacement that doesn't wait for state-based actions. You win on the spot at the moment you would draw the card, even if it's during the resolution of something else.
Enigma256
Joined Jul 2010
14845 Posts
each player has an empty library, controls Laboratory Maniac and Jace Beleren +2

Even this doesn't work. The active player would win.

Rule 120.2a
If an effect instructs more than one player to draw cards, the active player performs all of his
or her draws first, then each other player in turn order does the same.

But would not all the draws have to happen before someone would lose/win?

without the Maniac all players would lose, since that is checked as a SBA

but the Maniac has a replacement effect that kicks in the moment you draw
I overlooked that so I came to the wrong scenario
proud member of the 2011 community team
Zoidberg
Joined Aug 2005
3042 Posts
So, there actually is no way to make everybody win simultaneously?

"At the beginning of the next upkeep, each player wins the game."

What would THAT mean, that everyone wins or that everyone loses ? :P