1/11/2013 LD: "The Question of Life and Death"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Latest Developments, which goes live Friday morning on magicthegathering.com.
So to solve a problem with poor removal in the Limited environment, the solution was... a mythic rare. Meaning one in roughly every 5 draft pods.
What a scandalously, flagrantly overpowered mega-bomb for Limited play. It is inconceivable to me that this card was even printed in a product meant for Sealed Deck play. You could cut the last two abilities from it AND make it a sorcery and it would still be probably the best non-creature spell in Gatecrash Sealed. 

But I guess it's fair in Constructed. Is that worth it? Not to me. Even at Mythic I'll face this way more than I'd like, and that just doesn't seem worth it for a card that Constructed players probably won't even be that excited about. 
So to solve a problem with poor removal in the Limited environment, the solution was... a mythic rare. Meaning one in roughly every 5 draft pods.


He didn't say it was meant for Limited. He just wanted a cool removal spell for Boros. This is going to be an all-star in Casual Constructed, where he wanted it to be.
So to solve a problem with poor removal in the Limited environment, the solution was... a mythic rare. Meaning one in roughly every 5 draft pods.


He didn't say it was meant for Limited. He just wanted a cool removal spell for Boros. This is going to be an all-star in Casual Constructed, where he wanted it to be.


Except few casuals can/will afford a $30 Spike card... I find it somewhat ironic that Mr. Purvis doesn't even mention Standard (where this will make waves), instead focusing on limited/EDH...
Standard Pauper! (play it on MTGO)
Another OP mythic. Instead of competitive Magic, let's just use pay stubs. Highest number wins.
This just doens't look fair at all. :| I'd assume it's somewhat in the league of Sphinx's Revelation, Rakdos's Return, and cards like that since they have similar mana costs (X|color|color) and a powerful effect. But this just seems too over powered. I guess Naya Midrange is kicking Jund out of the way...
Yeah, that's pretty crazy strong.  6 mana in sealed and you can likely turn it into a 1 sided wrath for anyone not playing rakdos or gruul.  That's more powerful than almost any effect a fat 6cc creature is going to have for the same amount of invested mana.  

Should certainly see constructed play though.  Fireball has always been a staple, and while this costs an extra white mana, its not X divided evenly....its however you want it....or ALL on one target, which makes it infinitely more versatile.  Not to mention the tap down ability for anything you don't outright kill....PLUS the no sorcery speed spells clause.  Wow.  REALLY strong. 

Would honestly HATE to see this in limited.  It basically reads "pay 6-7 and win the game" 
Don't be distracted by the weird article. This card has been correctly given Mythic rarity, so Limited players everywhere should be doing their happy dance!

Also, I'm no Constructed player but it doesn't seem broken to me. As removal there are far better options and Wave of Indifference effects aren't even playable in Constructed last time I checked. Combining the two makes the card more playable, but I can't think of a scenario in (say) Standard where it would do anything unfair.

The Limited story in the article amuses me too. The author's opponent has a 5/5 flyer that's going to kill him and he blames the well designed removal spells?! Erm... no. Blame the overpowered flyer!
The Limited story in the article amuses me too. The author's opponent has a 5/5 flyer that's going to kill him and he blames the well designed removal spells?! Erm... no. Blame the overpowered flyer!

Yeah, I'm with you there. It's good when removal spells have restrictions and circumstances (including what sounds like a 3-damage attacker-burn spell).

Utterly fascinating card. Lots of different applications is good news for me. Mythic rare, sadly, isn't. I'm not sure, but this looks somewhat tournament playable, which means it'll be too expensive for me to pick up for casual decks.

A pity, because I love this kind of card design, providing lots of useful applications and interesting skill-testing choices during play. (Huh, my Spike side seems to be showing.)
Please don't pretend this is anything other than an overpower mythic cash card first, and blah blah blah second.
So to solve a problem with poor removal in the Limited environment, the solution was... a mythic rare. Meaning one in roughly every 5 draft pods.


He didn't say it was meant for Limited. He just wanted a cool removal spell for Boros. This is going to be an all-star in Casual Constructed, where he wanted it to be.


Except few casuals can/will afford a $30 Spike card... I find it somewhat ironic that Mr. Purvis doesn't even mention Standard (where this will make waves), instead focusing on limited/EDH...



Yeah, it's not like casual players spend pretty good chunks of money on foil cards, or specialty products like Commander's Arsenal, or untold numbers of boosters. /sarcasm
So to solve a problem with poor removal in the Limited environment, the solution was... a mythic rare. Meaning one in roughly every 5 draft pods.


He didn't say it was meant for Limited. He just wanted a cool removal spell for Boros. This is going to be an all-star in Casual Constructed, where he wanted it to be.



he did:

But after a few drafts, one thing was nagging at me: the removal spells. This was the set of Orzhov and Boros, two guilds that should be ruthlessly efficient at eliminating pesky individuals standing in the way of their guilds' ultimate goals. Many of the removal cards in the set were what I called "conditional" removal spells: Spells that required the target to meet some pre-existing condition before they would work.

A few DRAFTS. You dont design mythic spells for draft. He also stated a bit above it an example of a game he played. One of the 3 cards he had in hand was a ''A card with the playtest name Sniper Fire that I'd just drawn, which did damage to attacking or blocking creatures, but not enough damage to kill the Angel without help from a flying blocker.'' That seems like a pretty crappy card to play in Standard so I think we can asume safely that he is talking about draft/sealed.

So I agree with the first responder: how on earth did you change from the need of a good non-conditional removal spell at common/uncommon to a mythic card thats just insane good?
As removal there are far better options and Wave of Indifference effects aren't even playable in Constructed last time I checked.

Its effect is not like Wave of Indifference. It is like Feeling of Dread, which has seen Standard play.
Bravo for giving Boros an insanely powerful, flavorful, awesome card!  (I have always been a huge fan of RW in draft.)
he did:

But after a few drafts, one thing was nagging at me: the removal spells. This was the set of Orzhov and Boros, two guilds that should be ruthlessly efficient at eliminating pesky individuals standing in the way of their guilds' ultimate goals. Many of the removal cards in the set were what I called "conditional" removal spells: Spells that required the target to meet some pre-existing condition before they would work.

A few DRAFTS. You dont design mythic spells for draft. He also stated a bit above it an example of a game he played. One of the 3 cards he had in hand was a ''A card with the playtest name Sniper Fire that I'd just drawn, which did damage to attacking or blocking creatures, but not enough damage to kill the Angel without help from a flying blocker.'' That seems like a pretty crappy card to play in Standard so I think we can asume safely that he is talking about draft/sealed.

So I agree with the first responder: how on earth did you change from the need of a good non-conditional removal spell at common/uncommon to a mythic card thats just insane good?



The part about limited was just him telling the story of why he had designed the card in the first place. When a spot opened up, he turned whatever ideas he had into a rare/mythic.
Best response to "Miracle trigger on the stack" ever
Please don't pretend this is anything other than an overpower mythic cash card first, and blah blah blah second.



Cash cards would  be designed early (to make sure the set sells, see dual lands) this was added after the fact.

After the Prerelease, I would love to hear stories about ways this card had an impact on life-and-death matters in your 
Magic game. 


I think the stories will all be the same.

1. I drew this card, played it, and I won.

2. My opponent played this card and I lost. 
Best response to "Miracle trigger on the stack" ever

I like the way you think! Cool
Best response to "Miracle trigger on the stack" ever

Yep.  Among other things, they just created a 1RW Negate.
Except they keep the card in their hand, so it's a 1RW Remand without the cantrip
Still, a miracle's a lot worse in the hand than it is on the top of the deck.
Best response to "Miracle trigger on the stack" ever



How many eureka! pills did you take today sir? Does it hurt when you think about ideas like this one?
my real problem with this is how upgunned it is compared to clan's defiance. they both do the same thing, this just can hit anything, tap it down, and keep players from casting noncreature spells. yeah the damage divides, but clan's defianc ehits 3 maximum and this could kill six one toughness creatures.
Except they keep the card in their hand, so it's a 1RW Remand without the cantrip

Actually, I take it back.  This can't be used to counter a spell.  By the time the card is playable, the other spell has already been cast.
So apparently this is the "upgraded" version of Rolling Thunder. With Blinding Beam tacked on. And half of Silence. At instant speed!

I can't say I'm looking forward to playing against this in Limited, but at least it's at Mythic.
Those few who are saying this isn't over the top for Constructed, look at it's applications:


1) Play Thalia, delay an opponent casting Supreme Verdict until turn 5.  On turn 5 use 3 mana to delay your opponent casting it until turn 6.  Win.
2) Delay a combo opponent by a turn.  Win.
3) Against an opposing weenie deck, get a 2 or 3 for 1.
4) Against a mid-range deck, kill one of his mana dorks, tap the rest of his team, swing for the win the next turn.


You can see how no matter what deck your playing against this is going to very good, versatile, like an OP charm.


I do like all of the Xcc spells in this set, I just wish they weren't mythic rare

              
1) Play Thalia, delay an opponent casting Supreme Verdict until turn 5.  On turn 5 use 3 mana to delay your opponent casting it until turn 6.  Win.



4
hmm I wonder if I should take this as an indication that the mythic XCD spell cycle will continue throoughout the block. With Dragon's Maze factored in they could complete the cycle and make one for all 10 guilds.
What do you guys think?
If they print four in this block I'll take it as conformation of my theory since it will be easy enough to print three in Dragon's Maze. If they print three in Gatecrash then maybe they're trying to be sneaky about it but it's quite possible. If they print two then I will admit I'm wrong.
So to solve a problem with poor removal in the Limited environment, the solution was... a mythic rare. Meaning one in roughly every 5 draft pods.


He didn't say it was meant for Limited. He just wanted a cool removal spell for Boros. This is going to be an all-star in Casual Constructed, where he wanted it to be.


Except few casuals can/will afford a $30 Spike card... I find it somewhat ironic that Mr. Purvis doesn't even mention Standard (where this will make waves), instead focusing on limited/EDH...



Yeah, it's not like casual players spend pretty good chunks of money on foil cards, or specialty products like Commander's Arsenal, or untold numbers of boosters. /sarcasm

Citing the ridiculous farce that was Commander's Arsenal doesn't make your case.  How many casuals even got a chance to touch one, much less buy it?  But then, definitions of "casual" vary quite a bit.  For me casual means kitchen table, mostly budget, zero involvement with or interest in sanctioned events, and cards bought from singles boxes at the local game shop.  Maybe an occasional pack or bit of sealed product if I'm feeling interested.

This is obviously not Wizards' definition.

As for the card, it's an auto-include in every casual Boros deck I own, and would make me happily hated in multiplayer.  It's also going to be permanently out of my price range, but that's not a bad thing necessarily.  I don't like rewarding this kind of design with my dollar.  The "keep slapping abilities on it until we run out of card space" approach to Mythic design has been running rampant for a few sets now, and it's clumsy and inelegant.  Gatecrash looks amazing so far mostly because this hasn't been happening as much, and it's sad to see it cropping up again in such a promising set.
i think the wizards definition of casual is increasingly oriented around commander, not all cards legal non-competitive play. so in this case, making it an expensive card isnt so bad to them
hmm I wonder if I should take this as an indication that the mythic XCD spell cycle will continue throoughout the block.

It's already been confirmed that there is no mythic XCD cycle. Just several two-color mythic rare Instants and Sorceries that happen to have X in their costs.

"Proc" stands for "Programmed Random OCcurance". It does not even vaguely apply to anything Magic cards do. Don't use it.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

hmm I wonder if I should take this as an indication that the mythic XCD spell cycle will continue throoughout the block.

It's already been confirmed that there is no mythic XCD cycle. Just several two-color mythic rare Instants and Sorceries that happen to have X in their costs.

its not really a cycle even if the guilds all had them. biomass mutation is hybrid, the revelation is two of one of the colors, none of them have similar effects. but they are sort of a cluster, a pattern. this might continue. (we've already seen four for this set)
hmm I wonder if I should take this as an indication that the mythic XCD spell cycle will continue throoughout the block.

It's already been confirmed that there is no mythic XCD cycle. Just several two-color mythic rare Instants and Sorceries that happen to have X in their costs.

its not really a cycle even if the guilds all had them. biomass mutation is hybrid, the revelation is two of one of the colors, none of them have similar effects. but they are sort of a cluster, a pattern. this might continue. (we've already seen four for this set)

If I was on the Dragon's Maze Design or Development team, I'd probably go ahead and complete this non-cycle, making sure each guild had at least one cool mythic-rare X spell.  I suspect those on the actual teams had similar thoughts.
For the people commenting that this card is a pushed mythic made to be so, and is ugly because of it:

This card's idea is amazing. It comes probably from Stun Sniper, but it isn't something we've seen a lot. With this in mind, you probably want it to hit multiple targets, so then you think about . It looks very ugly if it costs more, so you ask if it can be printed with that cost. Development tests, sees is a very fun card (outside Limited, obviously) and so goes on adding only the "noncreature" clause (they push fun-and-unique cards). Of course, it's absolutely crushing in Limited (especially RTR/GCR Limited) so you definitively want it as a mythic.

"Casual Constructed" is a broad term, but there's a world outside Commander, and it isn't necessarily budget. 
hmm I wonder if I should take this as an indication that the mythic XCD spell cycle will continue throoughout the block.

It's already been confirmed that there is no mythic XCD cycle. Just several two-color mythic rare Instants and Sorceries that happen to have X in their costs.

its not really a cycle even if the guilds all had them. biomass mutation is hybrid, the revelation is two of one of the colors, none of them have similar effects. but they are sort of a cluster, a pattern. this might continue. (we've already seen four for this set)

If I was on the Dragon's Maze Design or Development team, I'd probably go ahead and complete this non-cycle, making sure each guild had at least one cool mythic-rare X spell.  I suspect those on the actual teams had similar thoughts.

I checked the dismissal I cited and it does read very straightforwardly as a dismissal. The story cited in the article indicates that that card came somewhat late in the process and didn't seem to be connected to any kind of "cycle quota". So I think we can safely say that at as late as the middle-to-end of Gatecrash development, there wasn't any cycle.

Moreover, the cards themselves don't line up well at all, given that they're spread across two rarities and two card types; one's hybrid; one costs an extra mana; and the effects are all over the map.

Still, seven super-splashy two-color variably-costed non-Permanents does look suspiciously like a cycle. Maybe somebody working on Dragon's Maze did notice in time to give Sylesnya, Orzhov, and Golgari their toys, too.

"Proc" stands for "Programmed Random OCcurance". It does not even vaguely apply to anything Magic cards do. Don't use it.

Level 1 Judge as of 09/26/2013

Zammm = Batman

"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins." -- Fallingman

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