Need help creating a build

17 posts / 0 new
Last post
Hi all!

I'm going to start a new campaign and I'm going to need all your wisdom for my build.

The theme is a Moradin warrior priest, battle priest, battle cleric, melee cleric (call it the way you want). Obviously he is a dwarf cleric. We start at level 1 cause there are some new players that have never played an rpg game before.

So the idea is to make a lvl progression from lvl 1 to 20 of a dwarf cleric that can do both, buffing and melee combat. The books allowed are PHB, Races of Stone (for the substitution levels), Unearthed Arcana and The Completes. Multiclassing is not allowed except that we can take one PrC if we want to.

BTW the roll was: 18, 16, 15, two 13 and 12

Thank you all!

PS: Sorry for my bad english but it's not my mother tongue.
Well its your lucky day because a melee cleric is extremely easy to build, and honestly you will probably do better then most of your party at it. Infact your multiclassing stipilation makes it even better since you quite frankly don't need to. You have access to the key components to make clerics melee monsters the core and complete divine. The key to a melee cleric is to take persist spell and divine metamagic to buff yourself to become amazing. I would recommend for stats to go something like 18 wis 16 cha 15 con then 13 int 13 str and finally 12 int. This distribution will allow you to be great at melee despite the low(er) physical stats. Look in complete champion aswell at the ordained champion presteige class and devoted feats. Animal and travel are great ones. For feats take level 1 extend spell level 3 persist spell (not useful yet) and level 6 divine metamagic then 9 is extra turning. This should allow you to be a monster. Lastly persist divine power on yourself and some other buffs to enchance your melee to astronomical heights.
Sadly, with all of those restriction and the amazing power of the cleric class your build is extremely easy and frost.fire basically spells it out for you.  You're starting with god stats and while you actually don't need to add a PrC you real could add use just about any of them provided you don't give up casting levels in cleric.
The obvious choice, of course, is Warpriest from Complete Divine. And even that probably isn't worth it.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
If I recall don't you lose caster levels from going warpriest? I feel its better to have as many as possible even though I did suggest ordained champion which broke that previous statement of not losing caster levels. Yisa86 if you need anymore help or clarification feel free to ask
Yeah, Warpriest was created back when they thought melee power was just as good as casting.
If it's a 5-level PrC, you only lose ~2 caster levels, which is acceptable, if not optimal. If it's a 10-level class, you lose 5 CL, which is completely unacceptable.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Oh one final thing, the dwarf pick as a race helps and hurts you. The con boost will be a life saver (literally) the cha hit will hurt a tiny bit by taking away your turning attempts, if you have access to planning domain take that to save a feat, if not I can't remember the great domains from core its been awhile and I'm afb. I think finally your level 12 feat has to be power attack. For weapon dwarven urgosh or any 2h is nice. The dwarven urgosh basically can allow you to use a sheild in the early game if you need to and can be used 2 handed for the 1 and 1/2 str bonus. Finally remember never prepare healing spells if you absolutely have to you can spontaneously do it in an emergency.
Dude, he's a priest of Moradin! USE THE WARHAMMER!!!
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Pretty sure Planning domain isn't in Core/Completes, unfortunately.  But a Gold Dwarf (MM) or a Desert Dwarf (UA) would be +Con/-Dex, which is a much better choice.

Anyhow, Law Devotion + DMM means you'll do fine.  Law Devotion at low levels, DMM at higher ones.  Persistent divine powerrecitation, etc.  Spikes on a club or warhammer or whatever, magic vestment to keep your AC up.  You won't be winning any awards for originality, but you'll do alright.  For some reason I've never been a huge fan of the melee cleric archtype, but there's no denying that they're pretty decent at it.
... I think finally your level 12 feat has to be power attack. For weapon dwarven urgosh or any 2h is nice. The dwarven urgosh basically can allow you to use a sheild in the early game if you need to and can be used 2 handed for the 1 and 1/2 str bonus. Finally remember never prepare healing spells if you absolutely have to you can spontaneously do it in an emergency.


Are you sure you're thinking about the right weapon?  The Dwarven Urgosh is something I'd maybe recommend to a Ranger or other dwarf that wants to go with a two-weapon fighting style but remember it is a double weapon and takes two hands.  Also remember that a dwarf still counts it as a martial weapon and cleric doesn't get that for free.  Now the Dwarven War Axe IS a weapon I can get behind provided you have the proficiency; it's just 1d10 damage instead of a great axe's 1d12 but it could be one handed or two-handed as the situation warrents.
Oops got confused my bad :/
Yeah, a straight cleric is going to be stuck with simple weapons.

Anyhow, until level 5, you'll probably want a morningstar or a longspear.  If you're starting with a Strength of 13 and not taking Power Attack until later, there's actually no great advantage to fighting two handed, so you may as well pack a shield or buckler, since AC actually DOES make a difference at low levels... so, morningstar.

Once you hit level 5, spikes is about the best damage boost you'll have for quite some time, and it lasts 1 hour/level.  Warhammer would be great for that reason if you got it, but you don't.  So, you'll want a weapon with a wooden striking surface to take advantage of that.  Clubs are free and easy, quarterstaves work as well, or see if you can pick up something silly like an ironwood longspear.

That being said, Races of Stone has a couple of deities with the War domain, so that's an option.  Hanseath gives you a greataxe, or Tharmekhul gives you the warhammer.  Spikes on a quarterstaff is actually a good bit more effective than a greataxe without.  But if an ironwood greataxe is an option, that could be fun.

So, depending on how you'd like to play, I'd either go:



  • Moradin, with Law Devotion and... Protection or Earth domain, probably Protection for the late game mind blank, wielding a morningstar until level 5 and a club/quarterstaff after.

  • Hanseath, with War and Strength domains (or Strength Devotion feat), wielding a greataxe until level 5, and trying to pick up an ironwood version after that or else switching to club/quarterstaff.

  • Tharmekhul, with War domain and... I don't know, his other domains suck, maybe Fire devotion?  Wield a warhammer and call it a day. 

Oops got confused my bad :/

Happens to us all from time to time.  

Like I said I may actually consider the Urgosh for some types of dwarven characters but generally not a cleric.  Besides all of that a Cleric of Moradin should be using a Warhammer which for some reason is often over looked in favor of the battle axe (which a dwarf should rarely need to use if it has the STR for a waraxe) and longsword.
Isn't War one of Moradin's domains? I thought he got Good, Law, War, and something else (Protection?).
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Isn't War one of Moradin's domains? I thought he got Good, Law, War, and something else (Protection?).



You'd think that, but no.  Good, Law, Earth, Protection, and a couple of non-core domains.
What the...
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Isn't War one of Moradin's domains? I thought he got Good, Law, War, and something else (Protection?).

As mentioned he doesn't officially get War but unless your DM is a stickler for that kind of thing you should be able to take it anyway.