What makes Thundering Howl so good?

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I recently did a Barbarian Critique thread and had lots of posts on this power. I did not get a chance to inquire, and rather then necro that thread I figured I would just ask in a new one.

What makes this power so good? As far as I can tell it's barely better then the At-Will  "Howl of Fury".

Can anyone fill me in? 
it's a multi-hitter.

it's good for all the reasons twin strike is, but better.
I recently did a Barbarian Critique thread and had lots of posts on this power. I did not get a chance to inquire, and rather then necro that thread I figured I would just ask in a new one.

What makes this power so good? As far as I can tell it's barely better then the At-Will  "Howl of Fury".

Can anyone fill me in? 


Howl of Fury the damage is all together.

Thundering Howl is two separate instances of damage which means damage bonuses to damage rolls are applied again and it is an AoE that damages other enemies in that blast. This means that 1d6 adds things like your magic + damage to the damage roll and other things like Iron Armbands of Power.
So basically you add your static damage (except your ability modifier) on to the 1d6 roll.
In fact, it is not a multi hitter, just a multi damager, and RAW it gets several static modifiers added to the second damage roll because most keywords apply and the damage roll is caused by a hit.
Thundering Howl isn't very impressive when you get it because your static mods are not high enough to make it better than howling strike + charge package. However, it becomes a lot better by upper heroic and paragon.
Thundering Howl isn't very impressive when you get it because your static mods are not high enough to make it better than howling strike + charge package. However, it becomes a lot better by upper heroic and paragon.


It still is one of the best powers in heroic for Barbs and even without great statics it does give the semmblance of a Nova for the Barb. You initially attack the target and then damage all in a blast which includes the primary target again.
 
It's also just a great versatile and multi-purpose power to keep in your toolkit. You doubletap your primary target, then push in an AoE, which minion pops and clumps enemies together for your controller to shred. I strongly adhere to the idea that any build should have at least one or two forced movement powers in their arsenal, and Thundering Howl does it in addition to being a hard-hitting power you would have normally used anyway, which just makes it absolutely stellar.
It's also just a great versatile and multi-purpose power to keep in your toolkit. You doubletap your primary target, then push in an AoE, which minion pops and clumps enemies together for your controller to shred. I strongly adhere to the idea that any build should have at least one or two forced movement powers in their arsenal, and Thundering Howl does it in addition to being a hard-hitting power you would have normally used anyway, which just makes it absolutely stellar.


+1
Oh hey, I didn't have to drop in to provide a perfect explanation of why Thundering Howl is awesome. Sweet! Nice work, gentlemen.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
ty all.
Thundering Howl isn't very impressive when you get it because your static mods are not high enough to make it better than howling strike + charge package. However, it becomes a lot better by upper heroic and paragon.

Charge+AP.
Thundering Howl isn't very impressive when you get it because your static mods are not high enough to make it better than howling strike + charge package. However, it becomes a lot better by upper heroic and paragon.

Charge+AP.



Yeah that's how you should use it early on. It's still not the most impressive power when you get it at first.
Neither is Twin Strike.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
That's also true.
Neither is Twin Strike.



Hah!  That is completely true!  

We started out at first level and I had a tough time convincing the ranger to use Twin Strike because he didn't want to give up his strength bonus in damage. In a few levels he had some Armbands, a +2 weapon, and his Quarry was doing 2d8 and then it all made sense.
Twin strike at level 1-5 is still potentially very good, depending on party. When I had started playing my Runepriest, had a ranger with us every now and then, and between sticking vulnerable 2 on a target, and +2 to damage from Rune of Mending, and a +1 bonus to hit from being in rune of destruction, the ranger was quite happy twin striking even at level 1. Thundering Howl benefits from the same stuff, so at level 3, with good coordination from a leader, it should do solid damage.
Quite, mathmatically twin strike beats out careful attack as soon as you get a Magic weapon (or an Artificer follows you around with Magic Weapon). Though, with an attack granting leader and off turn/minor attacks, Twin Strike loses a lot of it's "add quarry" edge, I'm actually kinda curious where the point of inflection actually is now ...

My comment was more that Twin Strike isn't very impressive in the same way that those low level Paladin 'striker' powers are: Big Numbers rarely are more impressive than Smaller Numbers more often
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Neither is Twin Strike.



Hah!  That is completely true!  

We started out at first level and I had a tough time convincing the ranger to use Twin Strike because he didn't want to give up his strength bonus in damage. In a few levels he had some Armbands, a +2 weapon, and his Quarry was doing 2d8 and then it all made sense.



The funny thing is, soon enough quarry damage is nearly irrelevant to a ranger.  I mean, after picking up the extra minor at 7, I didn't bother quarrying until round 3, when I had a minor that I couldn't attack with.

Same here. I'm playing a Cleric|Ranger and between using healing word and minor action attacks, I rarely ever use quarry.
Same here. I'm playing a Cleric|Ranger and between using healing word and minor action attacks, I rarely ever use quarry.


I'm also playing a Ranger|Cleric and have myself strapped for actions between the Minors and immediates. I try to get my quarry applied once i'm in position and can drop my move down to a minor. Using BCL lets you Stand and Bang more so you don't always need to move about as much whereas i find straight rangers tend to utilize their mobility more often.
 
Straight rangers are either Ranger|Clerics, Ranger/Clerics, or Str/Dex. So they all tend to have really damn good AC.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
  Thundering Howl is two separate instances of damage which means damage bonuses to damage rolls are applied again



Can anyone point me to where that's stated (and yes, I've tried the search )?  I asked my DM, and he didn't think you would apply your mods twice (or as he pointed out, you would do that on every power that had an extra die rider such as Brutal Slam).

Thanks!

Can anyone point me to where that's stated (and yes, I've tried the search )?  I asked my DM, and he didn't think you would apply your mods twice (or as he pointed out, you would do that on every power that had an extra die rider such as Brutal Slam).

Rules Compendium page 222. Paraphrasing, modifiers to damage rolls get added to every damage roll, even if the power has multiple damage rolls. So yes, you do add modifiers to damage with Brutal Slam, Thundering Howl, Thunder Ram Assault, Flame Spiral, Hellish Rebuke, Dire Radiance, and numerous other powers that call for a secondary damage roll.
Thank you Mengu74.
Can anyone point me to where that's stated (and yes, I've tried the search )?  I asked my DM, and he didn't think you would apply your mods twice (or as he pointed out, you would do that on every power that had an extra die rider such as Brutal Slam).

Rules Compendium page 222. Paraphrasing, modifiers to damage rolls get added to every damage roll, even if the power has multiple damage rolls. So yes, you do add modifiers to damage with Brutal Slam, Thundering Howl, Thunder Ram Assault, Flame Spiral, Hellish Rebuke, Dire Radiance, and numerous other powers that call for a secondary damage roll.


While i understand this and know the rule, What would be the exception to it? When/is there a time you would not add modifiers?
4e is an exception based rules system so you wouls always apply modifiers as per the base rule unless a power specifically states that it does not like in the case of Magic missile which gives a specific way damage is calculated.
While i understand this and know the rule, What would be the exception to it? When/is there a time you would not add modifiers?

You always add modifiers. It's a question of which modifiers you add, and that'll be determined by the power and the modifier. Some damage rolls are more difficult to add modifiers to, than others. For instance Assassin's Shroud specifically forbids any modifiers to be added. Some damage rolls have a few tools that let you boost them but you can't get crazy, a Tiefling's Infernal Wrath might add Hellfire Blood, Fiery Blood, and Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor. And some damage rolls pretty much accept all your bonuses, like Thundering Howl where you can add Iron Armbads, Icy Heart, Shocking Flame, Headsman's Chop, and whatever else you get to add to your melee weapon attacks.

Correction: Assassin's Shroud forbids you add bonuses; extra damage is perfectly fine, without a doubt the best party for an Assassin is one involving a Morninglord (or, in my Hybrids case, you do it yourself). And Dire Radiance actually isn't a second damage instance, it's specified as extra damage (hellish rebuke isn't).
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
How do you get Shroud to do radiant damage on a hybrid?
Didn't think it would convert the shroud damage but I guess it does. Now I have to see how many times I can trigger Sarifal's Blessing in one turn during heroic...
Trying to squeeze in one more with Death Shroud Ki Focus, if I could figure out how to attack that many times before a daily power swap at level 10.
You could crit with a weapon that gives you an extra MBA.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Killer's insight gets you another shroud, if you count each shroud as it's own damage instance, that'll get you to 7.
If you started with 2 shrouds (inexorable shroud, or watever) you could possibly have 8.
FWIW [4e designer] baseline assumption was that roughly 70% of your feats would be put towards combat effectiveness, parties would coordinate, and strikers would do 20/40/60 at-will damage+novas. If your party isn't doing that... well, you are below baseline, so yes, you need to optimize slightly to meet baseline. -Alcestis
Place one shroud (free) + killer's insight and invoke it with Heart of Dust (standard) = 3

Use black flame form (minor) and invoke it with sohei fluffry (minor) = 3

Use deathshroud ki focus and invoke with Shadowstorm = 3 

That's 9 with no prior shrouds. 
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Place one shroud (free) + killer's insight and invoke it with Heart of Dust (standard) = 3

Use black flame form (minor) and invoke it with sohei fluffry (minor) = 3

Use deathshroud ki focus and invoke with Shadowstorm = 3 

That's 9 with no prior shrouds. 

How are you getting 3 with each hit? Methinks you're misreading Heart of Dust. Also, Sarifal's Blessing + Sohei Flurry = epic fail.
Three instances - each shroud is it's own instance, plus one instance for the attack.

Swap for low slash then.
Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein