Would you play alms beast?

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2BW
6/6 creature, creatures that block or are blocked by it get lifelink.

Would you play this? Obviously its bad against vitu ghazi gm and perhaps selesnya in general, also regen creatures. Side it in if ppl don't have that, or side it out if they do?
Would I play a pseudo-swords to plowshares on a beatstick in Orzhov colors when their ability forces them to lose life every time I cast a spell?

Sure.

Is it a p1p1?

Probably not. We'll wait until the set's out to decide.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

It's not going to be in the format with Vitu Ghazi until Dragon's Maze.

I think it's a really, really powerful card. The downside is there but at the end of they day, your opponents getting life off this means they're trying to fight an undercosted 6/6. That probably means their board position will suffer even if they hit 30 or 35 life.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
Depends what else is in the format, but ultimately, they're going to have to deal with a 6/6 creature. They'll usually gain a little life, but lose a blocker. If they can generate a chump a turn, they're set- otherwise it's going to crush them. Orzhov seems to be a guild built to slowly grind away the opposition, and this card seems very good for that mechanic.
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This should be a bomb in limited.

If this comes out on turn four its going to be hard to deal with. Especially since we might be able to get rid of the guy you want to block with on turn 5. I don't mind giving you ten life if it gets rid of ten power worth of creatures...how much attacking power is left for you to draw in the next ten turns??
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
I hope people pass these early on, because I know they won't be passing them for long.  Its going to be a great card.  They will gain some life, but they are going to have to lose a lot of creatures normally to take it out or chump block it a lot to the point where they run out of creatures and you still have a 6/6.
Forgive me a stupid question, I've only recently returned to Magic after a long hiatus. What does Dragon Maze mean? Are we going to be drafting just gatecrash by itself? I guess I have no clue how the block is going to progress / change.
Forgive me a stupid question, I've only recently returned to Magic after a long hiatus. What does Dragon Maze mean? Are we going to be drafting just gatecrash by itself? I guess I have no clue how the block is going to progress / change.




Dragon's Maze is the 3rd set in the Return to Ravnica block.

Return to Ravnica gets drafted by itself.
Gatecrash gets drafted by itself when it comes out.
When Dragon's Maze comes out then you will draft it along with the other two in reverse order of how they came out.  So then you will draft Dragon's Maze, Gatecrash, Return to Ravnica.
Thanks
@Lobster667 and Urzasapprentice


It's good to see some people who understand how nuts this guy is gonna be in limited.  The preview thread was full of people saying it would never see play anywhere and I just didn't get it, he seems pretty darn good from where I'm sitting.   Well, I guess that means I can look forward to this being undervalued by a lot of people.


While he seems good at attacking and putting on early pressure, he also seems really good at defending and stalling the game, which imo is exactly what Orzhov wants in Gatecrash.  Stall the game and then use Extort and you will eventually take over.  
@Lobster667 and Urzasapprentice


It's good to see some people who understand how nuts this guy is gonna be in limited.  The preview thread was full of people saying it would never see play anywhere and I just didn't get it, he seems pretty darn good from where I'm sitting.   Well, I guess that means I can look forward to this being undervalued by a lot of people.


While he seems good at attacking and putting on early pressure, he also seems really good at defending and stalling the game, which imo is exactly what Orzhov wants in Gatecrash.  Stall the game and then use Extort and you will eventually take over.  


Don't take that thread as proof this card won't be drafted. Most of those people are casuals who think magic is only about EDH. 
@Lobster667 and Urzasapprentice


It's good to see some people who understand how nuts this guy is gonna be in limited.  The preview thread was full of people saying it would never see play anywhere and I just didn't get it, he seems pretty darn good from where I'm sitting.   Well, I guess that means I can look forward to this being undervalued by a lot of people.


While he seems good at attacking and putting on early pressure, he also seems really good at defending and stalling the game, which imo is exactly what Orzhov wants in Gatecrash.  Stall the game and then use Extort and you will eventually take over.  


Don't take that thread as proof this card won't be drafted. Most of those people are casuals who think magic is only about EDH. 


Actually it's a fairly even split between casuals who think magic is edh and spikes who think magic is standard. 
He's fine, probably 2.0, might go as high as 3.0, depending on the rest of the set. Any easy way to evasion on him will be nuts. A B/W pursuit of flight would be good.
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You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
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56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
Oh, wait, I just noticed it's rare. The reason everyone is putting it is down is that it won't come up often in limited.
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
It would be pretty insane at any rarity aside from rare. Trading your opponent life for a better board position is almost always going to be a good tradeoff. He should be in the 4.0 range.
Oh, wait, I just noticed it's rare. The reason everyone is putting it is down is that it won't come up often in limited.


Like I said in the other forum, if he was common, he'd break Limited. If Gatecrash is like RtR, answers to a 6/6 (regardless of detriments) are few and far between. A turn four 6/6, even more so. Make him common or uncommon so a player can pull two or more in a draft, and it's too unbalancing.
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He's fine, probably 2.0, might go as high as 3.0, depending on the rest of the set. Any easy way to evasion on him will be nuts. A B/W pursuit of flight would be good.



This evaluation is going to last exactly until the first Alms Beast kills you (from 32 or whatever, I don't care).

If it's not a 4.0+, I'll be surprised.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
He's fine, probably 2.0, might go as high as 3.0, depending on the rest of the set. Any easy way to evasion on him will be nuts. A B/W pursuit of flight would be good.


This guy doesn't need evasion, one-sided abysses, even ones that gain the opponent a bit of life, are nuts.
Oh, wait, I just noticed it's rare. The reason everyone is putting it is down is that it won't come up often in limited.


Like I said in the other forum, if he was common, he'd break Limited. If Gatecrash is like RtR, answers to a 6/6 (regardless of detriments) are few and far between. A turn four 6/6, even more so. Make him common or uncommon so a player can pull two or more in a draft, and it's too unbalancing.


Come on, this guy isn't that much bombier than vitu-ghazi guildmage...

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I hope all this helps you to see things in a greater light—and understand that Magic: the Gathering was really created by extraterrestials using Richard Garfield as a medium. The game itself reflects the socio-psycho realtivity between living beings, and the science that takes precedence over them—to define reality for them all (like telekinesis, weather, scientific reaction, phenomenon, ingenuity, how the brain works, etc.). I'd also bet there is an entity floating thousands of miles above us, looking down on the current state of game, shaking its fist like... "Wtf are you doing?! You're getting it all screwed up!". Awkward—to be evolved, and yet still subject to the ladder that is the concepts of the game. In this case, misconception, corruption, and deception. With the realities of each color becoming distorted (through oblivious designers), leading the game to reflect a false state of reality that warps the understanding that other people have about those things. For example, people thinking that white could be anything except pure good. This shouldn't be too far off though, I mean...Magic is designed based on reality after all, so that entity (those entities) should be subject to those things. Anyways, I guess when you're busy doing space stuff you can't always be around to ensure quality control. It's no wonder they choose Garfield, they're so much alike; that's exactly what happened to him and Magic.
166199665 wrote:
omg snortng so much febbdelicious /intocixated in rl
I'm with Lobster and bobus, etc. It will be a limited bomb and a 4.0+ type card. 
I'd agree this is a 4.0 as it stands, but until we see the removal engines the set has and the uncommons/all the guildmages (I haven't checked the new spoilers this morning) I'm reserving judgment that this is always a p1p1. Simple as that.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

I hope everybody is seeing this as a 6/6 for four and not some idiot that gains your opponent life. 
Any of you guys rating this less than 4 has a few screws loose.
Despite having a Nasty Drawback, he is amazing.

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Would I play a pseudo-swords to plowshares on a beatstick in Orzhov colors when their ability forces them to lose life every time I cast a spell?

Sure.

Is it a p1p1?

Probably not. We'll wait until the set's out to decide.



This. Probably. If Orzhov shapes up to be stronger than I expect, than maybe it will be stronger than this. BUt otherwise, it will still be more than playable.

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Yes, especially since the mana cost makes him pretty splashable if you going boros or dimir.
I'll run this card without reservation.

I don't care about the lifegain at all. Its only worth worrying about if your opponent can regenerate. 
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
I see it hard to rate this higher or equal to desecration demon
At that time, pretty much everyone rated him a 4.0

While the demon was growing (and forcing sac) or attacking for 6 with evasion, I don't see how a Vanilla 6/6 that gives lifelink and is handled by a 0/1 regenerates can be rated as high.

I may miss something here.
I see it hard to rate this higher or equal to desecration demon
At that time, pretty much everyone rated him a 4.0

While the demon was growing (and forcing sac) or attacking for 6 with evasion, I don't see how a Vanilla 6/6 that gives lifelink and is handled by a 0/1 regenrates can be rated as high.

I may miss something here.



Desecration Demon was controlled by your opponent... usually tapped down by the opponent sacking their chump blockers until they drew into removal or a larger threat. This type of opponent control is why Vexing Devil isn't in most RDW lists.

This you control. It will still be chump-blocked, which makes the lifelink less relevant, since it's rare for chump blockers to tout a lot of power. This "bonus" for your opponent is completely outweighed by how far below curve this beast is.

Additionally, when Dragon's Lair comes out, this'll hose Rakdos as it'll whiff right by their unleashed creatures.

I found Carmen Sandiego before you were born unless you're Zlehtnoba.

We also have less information about the context of the card than we would like. It may be that the power-level in RTR was simply slightly higher, making the higher grades harder to obtain.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
I opened two of these in my first prerelease pool. I used them. I stand by 3.0. It doesn't have enough impact on the game to go any higher.
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
I opened two of these in my first prerelease pool. I used them. I stand by 3.0. It doesn't have enough impact on the game to go any higher.



4.0 it's really good.

 I saw it get the Gift of Orzhov and blow people out and also just eat up creatures in the midgame.

bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
I opened two of these in my first prerelease pool. I used them. I stand by 3.0. It doesn't have enough impact on the game to go any higher.



4.0 it's really good.

 I saw it get the Gift of Orzhov and blow people out and also just eat up creatures in the midgame.



Have you played with or against it? It does the same amount of work as a towering thunderfist. Solid, but not a big impact. gift of Orzhov is good on anything.
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
That doesn't seem fair. It costs less mana and is +2/+2. It doesn't really compare IMO to a towering thunderfist. Alms beast is pure board presence.
Now I want to enchant Towering Thunderfist with Gift of Orzhova. 5/5 Vigilance Lifelink Flier? Sign me up.
Preparing for the M14 Prerelease - New article up! IN THE TANK - my very own blog for rambling about Magic!
It was great for me, I was never unhappy to see it and it either wrecked my opponents or forced them to throw premium removal (generally angelic edict) at it.
I had one in my Orzhov pool, but can't really comment on how good it can be because I didn't cast it the only time it was in my hand because I was well on top and didn't actually want to give him the life.

I saw how bad it could be when I the guy playing one was forced to chump my 16/16 Aberration, gaining me 16 life.

But both of those are pretty extreme scenarios. Despite them, I'd have absolutely no problems hammering this guy into sealed and draft decks.
Had one played against me. Unfortunately, it didn't play much of a board presence because I had a 1/1 regenerator that could have chump blocked for ages. I still think it's a good card in limited, though.
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I played my two copies in a lot of games. When you guys say "it could have been good, but..." I see that whole tournament. There was always something in the way of it being great. It traded with that simic 6/2 common a lot. I chumped a Dimir promo twice in back to back turns. It traded with a spark warrior--Hooray, the warrior can't gain lifelink again. I will say it usually two-for-one'd vs Gruul and boros, but they gain 6+ life, which is crucial in the Boros mirror. In Gruul/Boros vs. Orzhov, they can afford the two-for-one as long as they keep a tempo advantage.

It feels like one of the bad punisher cards. "take six damage or sacrifice a creature and gain life equal to its power." Being repeatable pushes it into "Above average/3.0," but it is not a 4.0 bomb.

Limited Guidelines:

5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1. (Pack Rat)
4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. (Cyclonic Rift)
4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. (Collective Blessing)
3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. (Call of the Conclave)
3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. (Street Spasm)
2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. (Assassin's Strike)
2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. (Eyes in the skies)
1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. (Slitherhead)
1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. (Soul Tithe)
0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. (Psychic Spiral)
0.0: I will shred this card for counters. (Search Warrant)



Actually, I'd rate it below Street Spasm and above Assassin's strike, so 3.0 is generous. It's no Collective Blessing or desecration demon. I don't hate alms beast, but it is not first-pickable or a bomb. Don't overvalue it.
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My sig was so awesome it broke Browsers, [url= http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29455423/For_some_reason...]I had to remove it.[/url] Support Magic Fiction! Or Bolas will eat you
57193048 wrote:
You should never explain layers to people unless one of the following is true: they're studying for a judge exam, you're both in a Ben Affleck movie and it's the only way to save the world, or you hate them.
56663526 wrote:
We try to maintain the illusion that Magic cards are written in English.
56333196 wrote:
69511863 wrote:
Hell, if they steal from us, we'd be honored.
oh my god, AWESOME! Then changing the Slivers was your idea! haha lol
56734518 wrote:
Occassionally when catering, I've been put the task of arranging Fruit and Cheese or Grilled Vegetable platters. More than once a high class buffet has started with the mark of Phyrexia upon it. Since i've got a good eye for color so it looks great to people who don't get the "joke" (it's a niceley divided circle after all: the outline gives you 4-6 "regions" to work with), this has actually got me put on platter design more often, resulting in Phyrexia's presence at more private and industry events.
I have 6917 Planeswalker points, that's probably more than you. [c=Hero's Resolve]"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune, mana screw; they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures." Gerrard of the Weatherlight[/c]
I'm sorry you had a tough time with this card your first time using him.

I could go no lower than 3.5 on this card as I would evaluate it as "Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color." We have ways to give this evasion, and if we get him out on turn four we can eat little creatures and use or removal for his other guys.
bulletd Guidelines: 5.0: I will take this card no matter what. Creature 1 or playable 1 or hate 1.Archangel of Thune 4.5: Bomb and splashable. Creature 1-2, playable 1-2, removal 1. Jace, Memory Adept 4.0: Excellent first pick first pack, will sway me into same colors. Creatures 1-4, removal 1. Haunted Plate Mail 3.5: Excellent first pack pick two, will confirm colors or possibly sway into second color. Doom Blade 3.0: Good in-color addition, or splashable removal/creature. Creatures 3-9, removal 1-3. wall of Frost 2.5: Solid pick in-color; creatures 5-12, removal 3-5. Dark Favor 2.0: Creatures 10-16; removal 6-7. Elvish Mystic 1.5: My 23rd or 22nd card, depending on removal. Act of Treason 1.0: 23rd card if I don't maindeck an additional land. Lay of the Land 0.5: This card will sometimes be sideboarded in. Brave the Elements 0.0: I will shred this card for counters. Darksteel Forge
Well, I played it in sealed and it won me a game. Mainly because I tossed several enchantments on it and gave it flying and lifelink.

But hey, a 6/6 beater? Sure. In limited.
I'm with Eyehunter on this one. I'm wondering if you got a chance to play with it UA?

I had this card in my pool for the prerelease and I had the feeling that most of the time it's a win-more card, rather than a game changing card (i.e. a bomb). It really depends on your opponent's guild, and if I had no trouble pulling it out against Simic or Dimir (never played against Orzhov), I was really hesitating to pull it against Boros or Gruul.
The fact that they have access to Act of Treason is a big downside. If you had a bad draw and this is your hope to slow down your opponent, you could just give them the weapon to finish you.   

Also, you don't want to give extra life to any of these two guilds.