Sorcerer Level 3 power Flame Spiral Effect Ruling

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Does the effect on flame spiral (the 1d6 against enemies entering a square) get any bonuses to it? Or is it straight up 1d6?
Need to know to know if I should grab this power. 
Yes! No. You should grab this power.
Flame Spiral is considered by most to be the best Sorcerer power you will ever get. Take it.
Yes! No. You should grab this power.

What are you saying yes and no?
Yes, it adds bonuses? No, its not a staight up 1d6? 
Yes! No. You should grab this power.




Are you saying yes to the first question, no the second question, and that he should take the power?
The effect gets full bonus damage, every time it triggers. It is a ridiculous power, take it and never replace it.
Yes! No. You should grab this power.




Are you saying yes to the first question, no the second question, and that he should take the power?


Yes.
Yes! No. You should grab this power.




Are you saying yes to the first question, no the second question, and that he should take the power?


Yes.



I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.
The effect gets full bonus damage, every time it triggers. It is a ridiculous power, take it and never replace it.


Full bonus may be confusing as it gets all bonus damage effects when you roll dice. And get a Power Jewel.
I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.

Does it have the Arcane keyword and Is it a damage roll?  Then you get boosts to things that boost arcane damage rolls.  A sorcerer's class feature comes to mind. (See below)

Does it have the implement keyword and is a damage roll?  Then you get boosts to things that boost implement damage rolls.  Your implement's enhancement bonus comes to mind.

There's nothing that says "it gets all boosts you can think of", because it won't.  If you have some PP feature that boosts weapon damage rolls, you won't get that bonus even if you use a weaplement as your implement, because it's not a weapon power.  But the ones that do count, count.

Because that's what the rules say.  And there's nothing to say they don't here, just because it makes numbers larger.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Yes! No. You should grab this power.




Are you saying yes to the first question, no the second question, and that he should take the power?


Yes.



I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.


Here is an example:

Draconic Power: You gain a bonus to the damage rolls of arcane powers equal to your Strength modifier.  
Yes! No. You should grab this power.




Are you saying yes to the first question, no the second question, and that he should take the power?


Yes.



I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.


Here is an example:

Draconic Power: You gain a bonus to the damage rolls of arcane powers equal to your Strength modifier.  




Okay, so it's any time a power has you roll for damage, even though it's a secondary effect of a power, you get the normal (feat and enhancment) boosts to damage rolls?  Or would it also include Charisma modifier?
Yes! No. You should grab this power.




Are you saying yes to the first question, no the second question, and that he should take the power?


Yes.



I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.


Here is an example:

Draconic Power: You gain a bonus to the damage rolls of arcane powers equal to your Strength modifier.  




Okay, so it's any time a power has you roll for damage, even though it's a secondary effect of a power, you get the normal (feat and enhancment) boosts to damage rolls?  Or would it also include Charisma modifier?



What would give it the Cha modifier? The damage is listed at 1d6, not 1d6 + Cha. 
I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.

Does it have the Arcane keyword and Is it a damage roll?  Then you get boosts to things that boost arcane damage rolls.  A sorcerer's class feature comes to mind. (See below)

Does it have the implement keyword and is a damage roll?  Then you get boosts to things that boost implement damage rolls.  Your implement's enhancement bonus comes to mind.

There's nothing that says "it gets all boosts you can think of", because it won't.  If you have some PP feature that boosts weapon damage rolls, you won't get that bonus even if you use a weaplement as your implement, because it's not a weapon power.  But the ones that do count, count.

Because that's what the rules say.  And there's nothing to say they don't here, just because it makes numbers larger.




Okay, thanks for clarifying that for me.

Yes! No. You should grab this power.




Are you saying yes to the first question, no the second question, and that he should take the power?


Yes.



I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.


Here is an example:

Draconic Power: You gain a bonus to the damage rolls of arcane powers equal to your Strength modifier.  




Okay, so it's any time a power has you roll for damage, even though it's a secondary effect of a power, you get the normal (feat and enhancment) boosts to damage rolls?  Or would it also include Charisma modifier?



What would give it the Cha modifier? The damage is listed at 1d6, not 1d6 + Cha. 



I just wanted to make certain that I understood how it works-- I didn't think it did.

To make things slightly more clear here is what Flame Spiral's damage should look like:

Initial:
1d10+cha+(Str or Dex from Sorc power) + (enhancement on impelment) + (Superior Implement) +(Feats)
"Move next to me" -  1d6+(Str or Dex from Sorc power) + (enhancement on impelment) + (Superior Implement) +(Feats)
"Start your turn next to me" - 1d6+(Str or Dex from Sorc power) + (enhancement on impelment) + (Superior Implement) +(Feats)
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I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.



Here. A bonus to damage rolls applies to every damage roll contained in a power.

RC 222 Modifiers To Damage Roll: Also an attack power might contain multiple damage rolls, such as a melee attack against multiple targets. If a creature has a bonus to damage rolls and uses such power, the creature applies the bonus to every damage roll of that power.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

I'm just curious, where in the rules does it state this, I've been searching the compendium to no avail.



Here. A bonus to damage rolls applies to every damage roll contained in a power.

RC 222 Modifiers To Damage Roll: Also an attack power might contain multiple damage rolls, such as a melee attack against multiple targets. If a creature has a bonus to damage rolls and uses such power, the creature applies the bonus to every damage roll of that power.




Related to this thread, but using an example from another - how does this relate to powers that have multiple damage rolls of different types.

Take, as the example, Thundering Howl (Barbarian 3).  It's a melee attack with the following hit line:

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. You then howl in a blast 3 that includes the target. Each enemy in the blast takes 1d6 thunder damage and is pushed 1 square.



Now suppose I have iron armbands of power.  Those apply to melee damage rolls, but not bursts or blasts. 
1) Do I apply the IAoP bonus to the 1d6 thunder damage?  (This is not the only such power that includes both a melee attack and an AoE component.) 
2) What if instead of IAoP I had some widget that gave me an item bonus to blast damage rolls - would I add that to both damage rolls, neither, or only the blast? 
3) If the answer are that the bonus applies to both rolls, would I apply both the IAoP bonus and the blast bonus, if I had both?  (I guess that question could read, is an item bonus to blast damage different than an item bonus to melee damage rolls?)

Take, as the example, Thundering Howl (Barbarian 3).  It's a melee attack with the following hit line:

Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage. You then howl in a blast 3 that includes the target. Each enemy in the blast takes 1d6 thunder damage and is pushed 1 square.



Now suppose I have iron armbands of power.  Those apply to melee damage rolls, but not bursts or blasts. 
1) Do I apply the IAoP bonus to the 1d6 thunder damage?  (This is not the only such power that includes both a melee attack and an AoE component.) 
2) What if instead of IAoP I had some widget that gave me an item bonus to blast damage rolls - would I add that to both damage rolls, neither, or only the blast? 
3) If the answer are that the bonus applies to both rolls, would I apply both the IAoP bonus and the blast bonus, if I had both?  (I guess that question could read, is an item bonus to blast damage different than an item bonus to melee damage rolls?)



1) Yes. Just because the hit line contains the word 'blast' does not change the fact that both damage rolls are treated as melee.

2) Neither, for the reasons above. 

3) Blast/Close attacks are different from melee attacks. They are different.

4) Why not ask this in the relevant thread, instead of this one? 
An official response from WotC for this issue. 

"With a power like Explosive Pyre do I add my implement bonus to extra damage rolled when and enemy enters a square adjacent to the target?
Yes, each time you for roll damage with an implement power you add your enhancement bonus."

wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/...
An official response from WotC for this issue. 

"With a power like Explosive Pyre do I add my implement bonus to extra damage rolled when and enemy enters a square adjacent to the target?
Yes, each time you for roll damage with an implement power you add your enhancement bonus."

wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/...



Not that the customer service has taken any more than a cursory glance at the rules ever.

An official response from WotC for this issue. 

"With a power like Explosive Pyre do I add my implement bonus to extra damage rolled when and enemy enters a square adjacent to the target?
Yes, each time you for roll damage with an implement power you add your enhancement bonus."

wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/...


... *waiting for Alcestis to respond*...
An official response from WotC for this issue. 

"With a power like Explosive Pyre do I add my implement bonus to extra damage rolled when and enemy enters a square adjacent to the target?
Yes, each time you for roll damage with an implement power you add your enhancement bonus."

wizards.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/...


FWIW Explosive Pyre doesn't deal extra damage. But it falls on the rules for Modifiers To Damage Roll (RC 222).

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

The FAQ is actually written by developers and posted on the CS website (true story, most of the original PHB FAQs were from a Dev Q&A Panel at GenCon 2008, when a question was asked and answered the answer was put up in the FAQ by a WotC lackey then and there). It is the answers you get from asking CS directly that are completely irrelevant.