## How much damage would a falling sperm whale do?

41 posts / 0 new
freet0
Joined Jan 2013
8 Posts
OK so I've calculated that the terminal velocity of a sperm whale is about 1617ft/s (270ft/round). Here's the calculation in case you were curious.

Show
V=√(2mg/pAC)
V=terminal velocity
m=mass. The average mass of a bull sperm whale is 41,000kg
g=acceleration due to gravity. On earth this is about 9.81m/s^2
p=density of air. At sea level this is 1.225kg/m^3
A=projected area. I believe the whale should fall head first. I couldn't find a source for this, but I estimate a sperm whale's head to be about 2.5m in diameter and roughly circular from the front. Using A=πr2 we get 4.91m^2
C=drag coefficient. I'm using .55
Now we plug it in. V=√(2(41000kg)(9.81m/s^2)/(1.225kg/m^3)(4.91m^2 )(.55))
V=√((804420kgm/s^2)/(3.308kg/m))
V=√(243174m^2/s^2)
V=493m/s or 1617ft/s (270ft/round)

Sources:
Formula - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocitySperm whale info - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_whaleAir density - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_airDrag coefficient - www.braeunig.us/space/cd.htm

The question is, how much damage would that do, and in what aoe when it landed?

The idea is, a druid wild shapes into something that can fly then flys up a couple thousand feet above the enemy and casts summon nature's ally VII to summon a cachalot(sperm whale). Alternatively a spell caster could just fly up there with a mouse and then polymorph it, but thats just not quite as neat.
StevenO
Joined Apr 2004
15438 Posts
There are rules that say you can't summon something where it isn't supported.  This means you can't summon a whale into mid-air and let it fall on someone.  Believe me it has been suggested before.
Lashius
Joined Feb 2012
464 Posts
As much as I love this reference to hitchhikers guide to the galaxy I don't believe you can summon a creature into an environment that doesn't support it (I.E you can't summon fire a elemental in water, a water elemental in fire, a land/water bond animal in mid air, etc).

Edit: got ninja'd by steven0 (still laughing about the HGTTG reference though).
freet0
Joined Jan 2013
8 Posts
As much as I love this reference to hitchhikers guide to the galaxy I don't believe you can summon a creature into an environment that doesn't support it (I.E you can't summon fire a elemental in water, a water elemental in fire, a land/water bond animal in mid air, etc).

Edit: got ninja'd by steven0 (still laughing about the HGTTG reference though).

Ah, well thats too bad. The polymorphing a mouse should still work though, right? Or I suppose if you were willing to die you could just wildshape yourself into a whale.
Lashius
Joined Feb 2012
464 Posts
That should be perfectly fine, yes.
Tempest_Stormwind
Joined Jun 2004
7936 Posts
Setting aside that you can't summon something in midair unless it can actually be supported in midair, the falling rules are also capped at 20d6 from velocity. This also covers all but extraordinary mass, but the whale certainly counts there.

Complete Warrior has rules for improvised thrown weapons which model damage from mass. The scaling is up to 5d6 at 400 pounds, plus 1d6 per 200 after that.

But yes, this won't work. Its been a joke since 2002, usually under the name "walrus bomb" or something similar. This is the first time I've seen it with a sperm whale though.
Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party.

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

freet0
Joined Jan 2013
8 Posts
Setting aside that you can't summon something in midair unless it can actually be supported in midair, the falling rules are also capped at 20d6 from velocity. This also covers all but extraordinary mass, but the whale certainly counts there.

Complete Warrior has rules for improvised thrown weapons which model damage from mass. The scaling is up to 5d6 at 400 pounds, plus 1d6 per 200 after that.

But yes, this won't work. Its been a joke since 2002, usually under the name "walrus bomb" or something similar. This is the first time I've seen it with a sperm whale though.

So, if you polymorphed a mouse into a whale, that would be 4d6+ 1d6/200lbs -2d6(for the initial 400)

assuming a 90,000lb sperm whale thats 452d6 damage, for an average of 1582 damage.
oma012
Joined Apr 2011
1795 Posts
Setting aside that you can't summon something in midair unless it can actually be supported in midair, the falling rules are also capped at 20d6 from velocity. This also covers all but extraordinary mass, but the whale certainly counts there. Complete Warrior has rules for improvised thrown weapons which model damage from mass. The scaling is up to 5d6 at 400 pounds, plus 1d6 per 200 after that. But yes, this won't work. Its been a joke since 2002, usually under the name "walrus bomb" or something similar. This is the first time I've seen it with a sperm whale though.

So, if you polymorphed a mouse into a whale, that would be 4d6+ 1d6/200lbs -2d6(for the initial 400)

assuming a 90,000lb sperm whale thats 452d6 damage, for an average of 1582 damage.

the top limit are 25d6 of damage but as a rule the DM can overlap this limit if deemed prudent and necessary under the circumstances.

remember that many epic character are still mortals and under the rules they can die like any other commoner as example for be crushed for a Sperm Whale
Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
MrCustomer
Joined Aug 2007
2693 Posts
You can't summon a creature in midair if it can't fly or be supported and you can't summon a whale on dry land or invironment that won't support it.

The real question should be how much damage the flower pot does and what it needs to roll to hit the target
StevenO
Joined Apr 2004
15438 Posts
Shouldn't that be a chamber pot instead of a flower pot?

MrCustomer
Joined Aug 2007
2693 Posts
No, it is a Flower Pot, bowl of petunias to be more specific.

actually the real question I beleive is why it's last words were "Oh no, not again!" a very hotly debated topic
oma012
Joined Apr 2011
1795 Posts
You can't summon a creature in midair if it can't fly or be supported and you can't summon a whale on dry land or invironment that won't support it.

The real question should be how much damage the flower pot does and what it needs to roll to hit the target

he are trying to use polymorph to make a sperm whale in the air and i in D20 Modern cover the DCs

• A falling Tiny-sized object allows a DC 5 Reflex save for half damage. The DC increases by 5 for each size category increase of the object (DC 10 for Small, 15 for Medium, and etc.).

• If the save fails by 10 or more, and the object is at least three size categories larger than the character, the character is pinned under the fallen object. A pinned character cannot move but is not helpless.

• A pinned character can make a Strength check (DC 5 for Small objects, 10 for Medium, +10 for each size category larger than Medium) to lift the object off themself, or an Escape Artist check (DC 20) to get out from underneath. Modify the DCs for these checks as necessary based on the circumstances.

Pepe pecas pica papas con un pico con un pico pepe pecas pica papas si pepe pecas pica papas con un pico donde esta el pico con que pepe pecas pica papas.
Tempest_Stormwind
Joined Jun 2004
7936 Posts
actually the real question I beleive is why it's last words were "Oh no, not again!" a very hotly debated topic

That was kind of answered in Life, The Universe, and Everything; let's just say that improbability physics really likes the Arthur Dent vs. Agrajag deathmatch. (This was also one of the more... egregious paradoxes involving time travel in the series, so much so that even the characters hang a lampshade on it.)

Freet0, may I ask what the point of this exercise is? Are you just trying to splat a player with a Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference, or are you trying to develop an unorthodox tactical nuke? Because there are better ways to exploit physics within the game - even if you limit yourself just to damage numbers instead of real effects like the commoner railgun. Good examples are the Hulking Hurler (which, last time I tried to build one, broke a few hundred billion d6 damage in one throw - basically, it's Weapon Focus: Texas) and anything involving Minor Creation and/or Decanters of Endless Water (I've seen people attain fusion bombs this way).
Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party.

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

Lashius
Joined Feb 2012
464 Posts
"Weapon focus: Texas"-This had me laughing for a good 5 minutes tempest...Olidamara bless you.
StevenO
Joined Apr 2004
15438 Posts
No, it is a Flower Pot, bowl of petunias to be more specific.

actually the real question I beleive is why it's last words were "Oh no, not again!" a very hotly debated topic

Then you must be taking about some other reference which I am unfamiliar with.

It seems to me that throwing the chamber pot (hopefully we all know what that is or can look it up somewhere else) at someone would be a LOT more hostile then just throwing a pot of petunias.

Rijan_Sai
Joined Apr 2006
164 Posts
No, it is a Flower Pot, bowl of petunias to be more specific.

actually the real question I beleive is why it's last words were "Oh no, not again!" a very hotly debated topic

Then you must be taking about some other reference which I am unfamiliar with.

It seems to me that throwing the chamber pot (hopefully we all know what that is or can look it up somewhere else) at someone would be a LOT more hostile then just throwing a pot of petunias.

I can only assume, (not having read the books...yet,) that it is a further reference to HGttG.

And yes, a chamber pot would be far more "hostile" then flowers...

Random quotes taken out of context
(More to come as I find them...)

Magical fairy princesses (i.e. all fairy princesses) have the pleasant situation of not needing to choose, unless they're rebellious teen emo fairy princesses.~ Slagger_the_Chuul, Gleemax

So you can have the basic stats of full plate armor in an iron loincloth or steel bikini? If you were playing Jeopardy, you'd get points for that.~ StevenO & Tempest_Stormwind, Gleemax

The monkey "yells" at the Dwarf, (high pitched monkey sounds) and turns to look at the Cleric to talk in common and says... *deep Barry White type voice. "Ah yea. Here ya go"~ BuddhaKai, Gleemax

One could, I guess, take the view that part of the spell is simply persuading physics to sit down and shut up~ Ocarina_Guy, Gleemax

So what happens if you automatically fail an automatic success? Inception.~ Kamanchu & MrDayKwan, Gleemax

Jafonel, that is absolutely my favorite misreading of RAW EVER. ~tsuyoshikentsu, Gleemax You know the best part? These are four-foot-tall creatures that can conjure hammers from nowhere. They are CHIBIS!!!! ~tsuyoshikentsu, Gleemax

Hmm. And here I thought that a whip was an implement of torture and a sword was an implement of killing... ~skydragonknight, Gleemax

I'm a little behind on this, but wouldn't letting the ability (to) create a Ruby Rod open up a whole can of worms with people claiming that means they can also create a Corbin Dallas? ~Kilroo, Gleemax

wow - we accidently went by the rules when the barbarian took of(f) someones arm on purpose.... ~Tetsuoh, Gleemax

Guys, it's obviously a trick question. No one plays a CN rogue unless they want to commit Evil acts and get away with it. :P ~herrdoktor, Gleemax

This ain't the real world. This is gosh darn Dungeons and Friken Dragons! ~Arcanist, GiantitP

just so I can have the glee of, when one of the PCs gets angry and yells "WHY WON'T YOU DIE" I can respond "I would prefer not to." ~Deth Muncher, GiantitP

If sleeping with Tieflings is "Tapping into Evil power" (if ya know what I mean), that is also an Evil Act according to BoVD, and would make a Paladin fall accordingly. ~Slipperychicken, GiantitP

So we have a real world basis for it to rain cattle ~MrCustomer, Gleemax

You both make point so good, you could stab someone with them. ~Immabozo, GiantitP

Given how gravity works differently for jumping, falling, stalling, and reverse gravity, we can conclusively say that D&D physics are powered by ACME Corp. ~Flickerdart, GiantitP

In D&D, I'm pretty sure the square-cube law merely describes how cubes are to be drawn on battle mats. ~Cog, GiantitP

continuous Prestidigitation refrigeration ~Tempest_Stormwind, Gleemax

Tempest_Stormwind
Joined Jun 2004
7936 Posts
Then you must be taking about some other reference which I am unfamiliar with.

Oh, are you in for a treat. It's one of the more oft-quoted anecdotes from The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (one of the ones that shows up in every version - radio play, books, BBC series, and Hollywood movie). The radio series is perhaps the best, but the books are much easier to come by in North America.

Here's the relevant passage.
For context, the protagonists' ship is about to be hit by a pair of planetary-defense missiles, when the main character suddenly activates the ship's Infinite Improbability Drive in a moment of panic. (Basically the drive figures out how improbable it'd be that you'd suddenly appear where you want to be, then makes events that improbable happen. This is suitably lampshaded: the first time it's used, they encounter an infinite number of monkeys who want to talk about a script for Hamlet they've worked out.) Instead of jumping away, they appear exactly where they were - with the missiles suddenly transformed into a bowl of petunias and a very surprised-looking sperm whale. After a brief play on British humility (the other characters take a polite "it was nothing, really; forget about it" literally), the narrator goes on:

Another thing that got forgotten was the fact that against all probability a sperm whale had suddenly been called into existence several miles above the surface of an alien planet. And since this is not a naturally tenable position for a whale, this poor innocent creature had very little time to come to terms with its identity as a whale before it then had to come to terms with not being a whale any more. This is a complete record of its thoughts from the moment it began its life till the moment it ended it.

Ah ... ! What's happening? it thought. Er, excuse me, who am I? Hello? Why am I here? What's my purpose in life? What do I mean by who am I? Calm down, get a grip now ... oh! this is an interesting sensation, what is it? It's a sort of ... yawning, tingling sensation in my ... my ... well I suppose I'd better start finding names for things if I want to make any headway in what for the sake of what I shall call an argument I shall call the world, so let's call it my stomach. Good. Ooooh, it's getting quite strong. And hey, what's about this whistling roaring sound going past what I'm suddenly going to call my head? Perhaps I can call that ... wind! Is that a good name? It'll do ... perhaps I can find a better name for it later when I've found out what it's for. It must be something very important because there certainly seems to be a hell of a lot of it. Hey! What's this thing? This ... let's call it a tail - yeah, tail. Hey! I can can really thrash it about pretty good can't I? Wow! Wow! That feels great! Doesn't seem to achieve very much but I'll probably find out what it's for later on. Now - have I built up any coherent picture of things yet? No. Never mind, hey, this is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I'm quite dizzy with anticipation ... Or is it the wind? There really is a lot of that now isn't it? And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like ... ow ... ound ... round ... ground! That's it! That's a good name - ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me?

And the rest, after a sudden wet thud, was silence.

Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again. Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now.

There's a peculiar joy in reading Adams' work if you have any appreciation for surreal comedy or great wordplay. Many compare him to Monty Python (with good reason; they worked together quite often) or to Terry Pratchett (I think Pratchett's a better storycrafter, but Adams was working on, essentially, sketch comedy rather than interlinked novels).
Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party.

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

freet0
Joined Jan 2013
8 Posts

Freet0, may I ask what the point of this exercise is? Are you just trying to splat a player with a Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference, or are you trying to develop an unorthodox tactical nuke? Because there are better ways to exploit physics within the game - even if you limit yourself just to damage numbers instead of real effects like the commoner railgun. Good examples are the Hulking Hurler (which, last time I tried to build one, broke a few hundred billion d6 damage in one throw - basically, it's Weapon Focus: Texas) and anything involving Minor Creation and/or Decanters of Endless Water (I've seen people attain fusion bombs this way).

Oh it wasn't for anything specific. I was just curious.

although the fusion bomb from endless water sounds inteesting. you wouldn't happen to have a link would you?
Tempest_Stormwind
Joined Jun 2004
7936 Posts
We discuss some use of physics-based magic here (which, oddly, was just bumped!). Most is practical.

Then you realize you can use Major Creation to create several cubic feet of plutonium. (Use the psionic power - it doesn't have material components, so you don't need a sliver of the stuff to start off.) Plutonium's critical mass is ~35 pounds; at this point it undergoes fission on its own (this doesn't necessarily mean an explosion, but it will always give off an ungodly amount of heat and radiation (this is why the term "meltdown" exists, if you're curious). In lay English, an atomic bomb uses subcritical mass fissile material, and triggers a chain reaction by using an explosion to ram the masses together; once you go supercritical you get a big boom, more or less.). Major Creation comes online at level 9, at which point you can make over ten thousand pounds of the stuff at once - along with a sizeable crater, particularly if it all appears at once at the end of manifesting instead of gradually over the entire manifesting time. Assuming, of course, your character knows about plutonium or a similar fissile substance (unlikely).

After playing around with that for a bit, Lokiyn happened upon the idea of emulating the atomic bomb explosive-charge triggers with a pressure wave coming from putting an ever-increasing amount of an incompressible substance in an indestructible, magically-controlled volume. He suggested using Resilient Sphere or Telekinetic Sphere + decanter of endless water or bottle of endless sand, and nesting the spheres around a tiny amount of fissile material (you put a minimum-size sphere centered on the fissile material, then put the bottle just outside and sphere around both it and the first sphere; expendable minions act as targets and triggers). The constant flow in between the two spheres will grow under pressure for the duration of the spells. The inner sphere expires first, causing the super-heated, super-pressurized contents to rush in and cause the plutonium to go supercritical (note that the sphere disappears instantly, which is a lot closer to the "ideal" situation used in physics problems!). Then the outer sphere expires, releasing the entire contents at once, and you get a fission bomb. It's possible (we don't have enough information to actually crunch the numbers) that the plutonium fission will give off enough heat to actually start fusion in the water as well; this is most likely if you're using the salt water option (on the assumption that's not pure salt-water but rather ocean-style water, with a passable amount of deuterium/tritium-based water molecules in there), basically giving you an H-bomb. Again, this requires knowledge of fissile materials like plutonium to pull off. (The less dramatic version omits the fissile material but uses the same basic idea to create a pressure bomb, which is a lot closer to the mechanical know-how of the D&D world as it's the same idea behind a powder-keg, just with common magic.)

[EDIT: While these bombs have a limited lifetime, require careful timing to create and the countdown to explosions start as soon as the durations of the spheres start ticking, you can "pause" the timers using Quintessence (assuming you prepared a lot of it in advance). Any number of methods exist to remove the quintessence remotely, allowing multiple bombs to go off at any point in the future.]

You can also accomplish similar things with Shrink Item and breakable spheres (imagine a gumball machine full of shrunken (read: stasis until impact, at which point they expand) balsa-wood super-thin spheres filled with an incompressible substance like water; make the outer shell out of a telekinetic sphere or resilient sphere and then shake it to create the impact needed to end the shrinking (if this doesn't work, fit a tiny minion inside and have him clap), then dismiss the sphere), but in order to go nuclear on its own without some fissile core you'd need something much denser than water to fill them, I think. I could crunch the numbers on this, but I'll admit my physics degree was some time ago (I mostly do cognitive modelling now and even when my physics was fresher, my emphasis was astrophysics, not particle physics, but I could try). You'd still be able to get a pretty impressive pressure bomb this way even with just water.

(EDIT: If you really, really want to be ridiculous, and you have an ocean or two as raw material, you can fill a sphere with beads from Dust of Dryness instead of pure water, then fill the space between the beads with water, then Shrink Item the whole kit and kaboodle, and then fill the outer blast shell with these. This stretches the wording of Shrink Item a bit (as it lets you shrink one nonmagical item, but presumably if you cast Shrink Item on your backpack, it would also shrink magical items inside the pack too). Figuring out exactly how much water pressure you'd get with this is left as an exercise - remember that the component spheres (packed with beads) have to fit within 2 cubic feet per level in volume for Shrink Item to work, and Shrink Item gives you a 1/4000 reduction in volume, while the final sphere (packed with the shrunken component spheres) has a diameter of 1 foot per level.)

At the end of the thread, Loren_Pechtel also pointed out that the unrestricted, limited-only-by-volume nature of Psionic Major Creation allows for a physicst to go even worse than this - his examples were antimatter (!), neutronium (look it up, it's basically the densest form of matter around), or even anti-neutronium (I haven't checked his math on this in detail, but he's on the right order of magnitude when he says a single Major Creation could create an explosion with a crater right through the earth's crust).
Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party.

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

freet0
Joined Jan 2013
8 Posts
Wow, thats pretty impressive. I don't really know a lot about the d&d rules (my group is pretty casual) but I'm pretty good with physics.

Water isn't actually incompressable, its just very difficult to compress. In the real world almost any container will break before any meaningful compression occurs. But in d&d we have spheres that cant break (at least I think thats how they work) and the ability to create potentially infinite water in them if I've read your post right. At that point, why stop at a pressure bomb? You could either extend the duration of the sphere or increase the rate of water influx, and it seems like you could do some crazy stuff. First the water would compress into ice (I think ice IV?). Eventually if you added enouch matter the 'water' would be as hot as a star and begin fusion on its own. Keep adding more and it should collapse into a singularity. I don't know if gravitional fields act through the sphere (presumably they do because people don't become weightless in them) but even if they don't you could just dispell the sphere and watch the magic.
Tempest_Stormwind
Joined Jun 2004
7936 Posts
Water isn't actually incompressable, its just very difficult to compress. In the real world almost any container will break before any meaningful compression occurs.

I did say I hold a physics degree. I know it isn't truly incompressible - that's why we're actually able to work with the pressure wave in the above example at all. I used "incompressible" in the same sense that you would while discussing hydraulics. If we were working with a truly incompressible substance there'd be no way to make a pressure wave, would there? You'd fill up the spheres and then... nothing.

But in d&d we have spheres that cant break (at least I think thats how they work) and the ability to create potentially infinite water in them if I've read your post right.

That's right: Resilient Sphere and Telekinetic Sphere are both indestructible (at least inasmuch as one considers "not subject to damage" and "nothing can pass through the sphere" in terms related to physics). The decanter of endless water can produce 30 gallons of water per round, which is about 4 cubic feet within rounding. Since only the command word stops the water from flowing, and the flow rate is constant (30 gallons per round), the pressure will rise until the spheres expire. If you shape the spheres right (the minimum dimension of the smallest sphere is 1 foot in diameter, and the outer sphere is only slightly larger but has to accommodate the decanter and a minion to operate it; Lokiyn's estimate was somewhere between 3 and 15 cubic feet of volume between the spheres), you build up pressure really fast, to the point where the water becomes a superheated gas.
At that point, why stop at a pressure bomb? You could either extend the duration of the sphere or increase the rate of water influx, and it seems like you could do some crazy stuff. First the water would compress into ice (I think ice IV?).

Thermodynamics suggests otherwise - increase the pressure but keep the volume constant and the temperature will rise, not fall. (Although the form changes for different states, the directions involved in the ideal gas law don't change.)
Eventually if you added enouch matter the 'water' would be as hot as a star and begin fusion on its own. Keep adding more and it should collapse into a singularity.

Good luck doing that using water - the spheres only last 1 minute per level and even with extending that's not going to get you fusion. That's why Lokiyn's suggestion to use the water as an explosive charge to achieve critical mass worked.

If you're looking for ways to cause a black hole, the simplest is actually Metamorphosis. In one of the very few examples where psionics does something more broken than the most closely related magic, Metamorphosis allows you to assume the form of an object - but does not place any limits as to the mass or size of said object. Quantum scale singularity? Brown dwarf star? "Hot and dense" proto-universe? Why not?

I don't know if gravitional fields act through the sphere (presumably they do because people don't become weightless in them) but even if they don't you could just dispell the sphere and watch the magic.

They probably don't - "nothing" can pass through the sphere (magical exception for breathing and Required Secondary Power for light since you can see through it, even though this causes a paradox for certain things), and the Resilient Sphere can't be moved at all while the Telekinetic Sphere explicitly makes everything in it "nearly weightless" (even though the weight reduction is only by a factor of sixteen), so it clearly plays hob with physics.

In general, we don't like applying physics directly to magical effects, though. Thermodynamics and most mechanics tend to throw a hissy fit when they run into a Wall of Force - or anything magical, really. (Hell, my introductory thermal physics text (Schroeder) even used a wizard summoning a rabbit to explain the basic principles of enthalpy.)
Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party.

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

MrCustomer
Joined Aug 2007
2693 Posts

What you really need to do is to forget the water, and make huge open barrels of Acid (cause it has a happy secondary effect) and then use Shrink Item on them, make them small and clothlike, and cram as many of them into a bag of holding as possible (should be able to fit 4000 times the normal amount into the bag) open the bag and say the command word. Aside from the presure of the sudden release, you have 10d6 acid destroying everything else.

Tempest_Stormwind
Joined Jun 2004
7936 Posts

What you really need to do is to forget the water, and make huge open barrels of Acid (cause it has a happy secondary effect) and then use Shrink Item on them, make them small and clothlike, and cram as many of them into a bag of holding as possible (should be able to fit 4000 times the normal amount into the bag) open the bag and say the command word. Aside from the presure of the sudden release, you have 10d6 acid destroying everything else.

Just 10d6, though. And you can create the water cheaper than you can create the acid (as there's endless decanters). If you want something damaging that's also available cheaper than acid, consider turpentine, which is available in obscenely large quantities from Psionic Minor Creation (it's a plant substance), has a density similar to water, and is rather flammable (and, under pressure, an explosive hazard). With the right nozzle and a pilot light you could probably create a flamethrower this way.

This also doesn't get into the fun one can have with a Collar of Perpetual Attendance, which is probably more efficient as well (no need for geysers of acid). Although it doesn't really deal damage, you can actually pose a reasonable threat with a sprayer loaded with aboleth mucus or atramen oil.
Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party.

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

freet0
Joined Jan 2013
8 Posts

Thermodynamics suggests otherwise - increase the pressure but keep the volume constant and the temperature will rise, not fall. (Although the form changes for different states, the directions involved in the ideal gas law don't change.)

Um, water becomes solid under high enough pressure regardless of temperature. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phase_diagram_of_water.svg

although it does look like I was wrong about which type of Ice forms. It should be VII, X, or XI, not IV.
Tempest_Stormwind
Joined Jun 2004
7936 Posts

Thermodynamics suggests otherwise - increase the pressure but keep the volume constant and the temperature will rise, not fall. (Although the form changes for different states, the directions involved in the ideal gas law don't change.)

Um, water becomes solid under high enough pressure regardless of temperature. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phase_diagram_of_water.svg

although it does look like I was wrong about which type of Ice forms. It should be VII, X, or XI, not IV.

Hm. I stand corrected (and intrigued - I really don't remember seeing that phase diagram before. Then again, I did say I did astrophysics...)
Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party.

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

StevenO
Joined Apr 2004
15438 Posts

Thermodynamics suggests otherwise - increase the pressure but keep the volume constant and the temperature will rise, not fall. (Although the form changes for different states, the directions involved in the ideal gas law don't change.)

Um, water becomes solid under high enough pressure regardless of temperature. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phase_diagram_of_water.svg

although it does look like I was wrong about which type of Ice forms. It should be VII, X, or XI, not IV.

An interesting diagram.  I like how steady the freezing point of water is.  That wierd thing about water is how, at least at one atmosphere, it is most dense just a bit warmer the freezing.  With that in mind it would seem like is should be able to squeeze Ice back into water which may explain the "hook" in the diagram.  It also shouldn't be surprising that at the highest pressures few things are actually gasous; things are just being pressed to closely together for the freedom that a gas requires.

Loren_Pechtel
Joined Dec 2002
422 Posts
Delayed polymorph any object (you'll need some epic feats for this).  Lead weight -> anti-lead weight.  42MT per kilogram polymorphed.

You can do it without the epic feats but then it becomes a suicide bomb as you're in the blast range.

If you don't want to mess with antimatter do it with plutonium.  You don't get anything like the bang per pound, though.  (Note that you do *NOT* need weapons-grade material here.  While uraniuum requires weapons grade material to make a bang at all the issue with plutonium is the other way around--too much Pu-240 and your bomb predetonates, wasting most of it's power.))

The whale bomb has a whale of a problem:  Accuracy.  In vacuum that whale is going to take 50 seconds of falling to reach that terminal velocity.  Since it's in air I figure it would take at least 60 seconds.  You'll have to be an awfully good precog to figure out where to drop your bomb 10 rounds out!
freet0
Joined Jan 2013
8 Posts
hm, good point on the accuracy. Perhaps many whales would solve the problem. Whale carpet bombing, if you will.
taradusis
Joined Mar 2006
2012 Posts
May I suggest an empirical test? Get a big tough scale and place it on the ground. Build a dirigible or blimp . Capture a sperm whale drop it often enough to generate a few thousand data runs. Get time on the university computer to do a comparison study. Publish a paper. Go to conferences and defend work.

I will immediately report any Phishers or Lonely Hearts Scam Artists.

MrCustomer
Joined Aug 2007
2693 Posts
Accuracy will depend on what the intended target it, if you are attacking an encampement, castle wall, building or ship or dropping it on an army etc. Then that would be accurate enough. An attack on an individual person in a battle, not so much.
draco1119
Joined Sep 2005
15369 Posts
Hehe. Could "sperm whale" be the next AoE and splash weapon?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Loren_Pechtel
Joined Dec 2002
422 Posts
Accuracy will depend on what the intended target it, if you are attacking an encampement, castle wall, building or ship or dropping it on an army etc. Then that would be accurate enough. An attack on an individual person in a battle, not so much.

I don't think you realize how far it must fall.

Assuming freefall (air drag just makes the problem worse) you're still bombing from jetliner altitudes.  The Enola Gay dropped from lower altitude and had a much better bombsight--and missed by hundreds of feet.

While I can find various terminal velocity calculators out there I find nothing that tells me the acceleration curve.  (I won't say when it reaches terminal velocity because it doesn't--it's still going to be accelerating at impact unless you drop from high enough that it picks up extra speed in the upper atmosphere, like in the Red Bull jump where he was above terminal velocity for part of the way down--the only way he could go supersonic.)
StevenO
Joined Apr 2004
15438 Posts
You know, a falling whale may have better directional control then a falling human usually would.  After all it still has that great big rudder of a tail that it could use to steer and its front fins may be able to help as well.  We should remember that a Sperm Whale is a diving machine.

freet0
Joined Jan 2013
8 Posts
You know, a falling whale may have better directional control then a falling human usually would.  After all it still has that great big rudder of a tail that it could use to steer and its front fins may be able to help as well.  We should remember that a Sperm Whale is a diving machine.

But how do you get the sperm whale to steer where you want it to? Even if the whale could somehow understand where it was supposed to land and how to steer itself there, why would it want to help the guy who just dropped it thousands of feet in the air?
draco1119
Joined Sep 2005
15369 Posts
Calm emotions and Speak with Animals.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
StevenO
Joined Apr 2004
15438 Posts
You know, a falling whale may have better directional control then a falling human usually would.  After all it still has that great big rudder of a tail that it could use to steer and its front fins may be able to help as well.  We should remember that a Sperm Whale is a diving machine.

But how do you get the sperm whale to steer where you want it to? Even if the whale could somehow understand where it was supposed to land and how to steer itself there, why would it want to help the guy who just dropped it thousands of feet in the air?

Illusions!?!  You just make it think it is diving down through water instead of air and you make it think the target will be lunch.

Lashius
Joined Feb 2012
464 Posts
You know, a falling whale may have better directional control then a falling human usually would.  After all it still has that great big rudder of a tail that it could use to steer and its front fins may be able to help as well.  We should remember that a Sperm Whale is a diving machine.

But how do you get the sperm whale to steer where you want it to? Even if the whale could somehow understand where it was supposed to land and how to steer itself there, why would it want to help the guy who just dropped it thousands of feet in the air?

If I'm not mistaken there is a psionic power that allowes you to control objects (cant remember the particulars and I'm away from any psi books) as long as the power doesn't have a qubic foot limitation you should be good to go.
MrCustomer
Joined Aug 2007
2693 Posts
terinal velocity or not, the mass and mommentum of the whale might be enough to keep it on a considerably straighter course, the heavier the object the less it is going to be blown off course by wind resistance. But yes for  hitting even an area woudl be difficult, unless you um, steered it.

Myabe a goblin steering it?
draco1119
Joined Sep 2005
15369 Posts
No, a Minotaur or anthropomorphic bull. Haven't you seen Legend of the Boneknapper Dragon?
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Slagger_the_Chuul
Joined May 2001
7508 Posts
The sperm whale's natural streamlining might actually make it more capable of veering off course than a comparable mass in some other form, in the same way that a plane's shape helps it move through the air.

But even if it's trying to hit, it's moving through a far less dense medium than its normal environment, and by the time it gets close enough to properly judge its angle, it won't be able to affect its course very much (while it has a lot of time beforehand to get off course).  It might as well be a random drop unless you can somehow improve its aerial mobility without slowing it down.

You might also have to be careful if it's summoned, since with enough distance the duration could run out before it hits the ground.  For example, a caster with summon monster VIII (with Imbued Summoning for something like swift fly) can put the sperm whale high in the air, but it could have as little as 15 rounds to reach the ground, and you can certainly fall for more than a minute and a half if you're up high.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
MrCustomer
Joined Aug 2007
2693 Posts
summon the same wieght in cows at the same hight, not as much damage (unless you strap bombs to the first) but you have a better chance of hitting something by raining cows on them.

BTW,    Japanese fishermen in the middle of the ocean started sending in maydays because their ship was nearly sunk by a Cow that fell from the sky. Apparently it was being transported on a cargo airplane and somehow some fell out. So we have a real world basis for it to rain cattle
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