"DM tear up the char sheet of uncooperative players?"

Has that ever been printed? I was watching a video interview of Mike Mearls and some other guy, and the other guy was comparing editions. He said that "The DM in early editions was the ultimate power and was encouraged to do anything, even going so far as tearing up the character sheets of uncooperative players."

I looked through my old books and couldn't find anything like that. Has anyone ever seen such a statement on a D&D book? Heres a link to the vid, just ff to 10:20.

">has that ever been printed, that a DM should tear up the char sheet of uncooperative payers?10:20 has that ever been printed, that a DM should tear up the char sheet of uncooperative payers? 

What an odd thing to say. I'm really curious...I never read such a thing.
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Has that ever been printed? I was watching a video interview of Mike Mearls and some other guy, and the other guy was comparing editions. He said that "The DM in early editions was the ultimate power and was encouraged to do anything, even going so far as tearing up the character sheets of uncooperative players."

I looked through my old books and couldn't find anything like that. Has anyone ever seen such a statement on a D&D book? Heres a link to the vid, just ff to 10:20.

">has that ever been printed, that a DM should tear up the char sheet of uncooperative payers?10:20 has that ever been printed, that a DM should tear up the char sheet of uncooperative payers? 

What an odd thing to say. I'm really curious...I never read such a thing.



Ive been playing this hobby for a long time and I have not (or have forgotten), anything like that.

I wouldn't dwell on it.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Has that ever been printed? I was watching a video interview of Mike Mearls and some other guy, and the other guy was comparing editions. He said that "The DM in early editions was the ultimate power and was encouraged to do anything, even going so far as tearing up the character sheets of uncooperative players."

I looked through my old books and couldn't find anything like that. Has anyone ever seen such a statement on a D&D book? Heres a link to the vid, just ff to 10:20.

">has that ever been printed, that a DM should tear up the char sheet of uncooperative payers?10:20 has that ever been printed, that a DM should tear up the char sheet of uncooperative payers? 

What an odd thing to say. I'm really curious...I never read such a thing.

One may reference in the 1st Edition DMG reprint that Gary Gygax condoned and encouarged a very, very strict and exacting means of dealing with problem payers; destroying character sheets, penalizing characters in-game, and disinviting people are listed among the 'solutions'. (If memory serves me correct.)

Danny


I wouldn't dwell on it.




Good advice! =-) TY

The guy just sounded so sure, I would love to see that in print! Man I would enlarge it and paste it to my DM screen! lol

I am not sure I need the DMG to tell me how to deal with an unruly (or over rulie) player.  But I admit, that is an interesting read.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Back in the day we wouldn't tear up a character sheet, even if a player left the game. We would erase it instead and use it later for another character. Wink
from 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide page 110

HANDLING TROUBLESOME PLAYERS

Some players will find more enjoyment in spoiling a game than in playing
it, and this ruins the fun for the rest of the participants, so it must be
prevented. Those who enjoy being loud and argumentative, those who
pout or act in a childish manner when things go against them, those who
use the books as a defense when you rule them out of line should be
excluded from the campaign. Simply put, ask them to leave, or do not
invite them to participate again.
Peer pressure is another means which can be used to control players who
are not totally obnoxious and who you deem worth saving. These types
typically attempt to give orders and instructions even when their
characters are not present, tell other characters what to do even though
the character role they have has nothing to do with that of the one being
instructed, or continually attempt actions or activities their characters
would have no knowledge of. When any such proposals or suggestions or
orders are made, simply inform the group that that is no longer possible
under any circumstances because of the player in question. The group will
then act to silence him or her and control undesirable outbursts. The other
players will most certainly let such individuals know about undesirable
activity when it begins to affect their characters and their enjoyment of the
game.
Strong steps short of expulsion can be an extra random monster die,
obviously rolled, the attack of an ethereal mummy (which always strikes
by surprise, naturally), points of damage from "blue bolts from the
heavens" striking the offender's head, or the permanent loss of a point of
charisma (appropriately) from the character belonging to the offender. If
these have to be enacted regularly, then they are not effective and
stronger measures must be taken. Again, the ultimate answer to such a
problem is simply to exclude the disruptive person from further gatherings.


Kalex the Omen 
Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire

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Concerning Player Rules Bias
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
Concerning "Default" Rules
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.

In the first edition it had you take away magic items if the player was caught using knowledge from the DMG, or if they are acting disruptive to strike them with magic, take away attribute points, or worst case just not invite them back.

But I couldn't find ripping up the character sheet.

That said, old Dragon magazines often had some crazy advice until they got their act together on things, so it may have been something that was printed in one of the magazines.

(Edit: example - October 1977, page 5 - had a suggestion to hand out Orgies to your fighters instead of treasure)
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 One may reference in the 1st Edition DMG reprint that Gary Gygax condoned and encouaged a very, very strict and exacting means of dealing with problem payers; destroying character sheets, penalizing characters in-game, and disinviting people are listed among the 'solutions'. (If memory serves me correct.)



Yeah thats the first place I went! =-D Right to the "problem players section" It says something like "Some players find more enjoyment in spoiling the game...this ruins the fun for the other particepants..simply ask them to leave or don't invite them back." here theres a bunch, let me run it through the scanner.
points of damage from "blue bolts from the heavens" striking the offender's head

 Sorry its not even funny
Back in the day we wouldn't tear up a character sheet, even if a player left the game. We would erase it instead and use it later for another character. 



I used them as redshirts.  Why waste all that time and effort?

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Yo my red shirts didn't have magic items 
 I had a disruptive player once who wouldn't shut up. He wasn't being offending on purpose just oblivious. I bounced a dice box off his head and the other players congratualted me for it after the game lol.

 Fear is the Mind Killer

 

Another thread about DM abuse? What this world coming to? 
Handling troublesome playerswow that came out pretty small!
giant picture deleted.
Yall best behaves or Ima Charisma slap ya

EDIT:  I might change my avatar to wielding blue bolts

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Dude, I already posted that here.  Get rid of that huge picture.

Kalex the Omen 
Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire

OSR Fan? Our Big Announcement™ is here!

Please join our forums!

Concerning Player Rules Bias
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
Concerning "Default" Rules
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.

from 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide page 110




How did you get that scanned and posted so nicely and quickly? I'm all covered in glue and my scanner is smashind in the corner!
How did you get that scanned and posted so nicely and quickly? I'm all covered in glue and my scanner is smashind in the corner!



1st Edition books were legally sold as PDFs by Paizo for a time.  I have them in PDF, so I just copied and pasted the text.  

Kalex the Omen 
Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire

OSR Fan? Our Big Announcement™ is here!

Please join our forums!

Concerning Player Rules Bias
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
Concerning "Default" Rules
Kalex_the_Omen wrote:
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.

Dude, I already posted that here.  Get rid of that huge picture.


I like the pic. =-P
Yall best behaves or Ima Charisma slap ya

EDIT:  I might change my avatar to wielding blue bolts

   You're not game :P

Please don't hit me with a CHA bolt, Mr.DM. I don't want my character to get mummy rot. Cry
Please don't hit me with a CHA bolt, Mr.DM. I don't want my character to get mummy rot. 



Okay, but next time, no pinneapple on my pizza

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

HANDLING TROUBLESOME PLAYERS

Funny it doesn't even suggest to actually talk with the troublesome player, one of the most commonly served advice on the What's a DM to Do? but go right to punitive action instead.



Please don't hit me with a CHA bolt, Mr.DM. I don't want my character to get mummy rot. 



Okay, but next time, no pinneapple on my pizza



Oh no, I did it again! I didn't mean to kill your favorite villian in one shot. I didn't know he was weak against *insert weakness here*. I swear, I didn't look at your notes. Please don't punish me.

Please don't hit me with a CHA bolt, Mr.DM. I don't want my character to get mummy rot. 



Okay, but next time, no pinneapple on my pizza



Oh no, I did it again! I didn't mean to kill your favorite villian in one shot. I didn't know he was weak against *insert weakness here*. I swear, I didn't look at your notes. Please don't punish me.




Thats okay, now you have to deal with the brother of Trogdor!

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Blue bolts FTW! (Seriously.)

Other than that, no, I don't remember explicitly seeing that suggestion, but I do remember having a DM that did that if he thought people were getting too upset over something that happened during the game. If someone started whining, he'd rip up their character.

Not a bad policy, all in all.
Color me flattered.

LIFE CYCLE OF A RULES THREAD

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Thank_Dog wrote:

2Chlorobutanal wrote:
I think that if you have to argue to convince others about the clarity of something, it's probably not as objectively clear as you think.

No, what it means is that some people just like to be obtuse.

I hope they decide to playtest this stuff. Man that would be great to see in action, playtest char sheets getting all torn up!
Yall best behaves or Ima Charisma slap ya

EDIT:  I might change my avatar to wielding blue bolts

   You're not game :P




Bazinga

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Yall best behaves or Ima Charisma slap ya

EDIT:  I might change my avatar to wielding blue bolts

   You're not game :P




Bazinga


+2 for the pic.
My two copper.
I hope they decide to playtest this stuff. Man that would be great to see in action, playtest char sheets getting all torn up!


I'll tell you right now, any game that encourages the DM to destroy another player's character whenever h feels like is a game I'm not buying.

Plus if any DM does that, instead of leaving, I'm just going to make the rest of the session hell to play. Like grabbing dice mid-roll and throwing it again, grabbing other character sheets when they need them and throwing them in the trash, etc.
I hope they decide to playtest this stuff. Man that would be great to see in action, playtest char sheets getting all torn up!


I'll tell you right now, any game that encourages the DM to destroy another player's character whenever h feels like is a game I'm not buying.

Plus if any DM does that, instead of leaving, I'm just going to make the rest of the session hell to play. Like grabbing dice mid-roll and throwing it again, grabbing other character sheets when they need them and throwing them in the trash, etc.



I'd be half tempted to tear up the DM's DMG.  Hey, if you can lose your driver's license for mis-using it ...
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Its a playtest.  Gimme a point of CHA

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Yall best behaves or Ima Charisma slap ya

EDIT:  I might change my avatar to wielding blue bolts

   You're not game :P




Bazinga


+2 for the pic.



+3 for the GIMP

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Yea, even though Gygax helped create this genre of gaming, a lot of his ideas on how a game should be run were TERRIBLE. What a bad way to DM...
Yea, even though Gygax helped create this genre of gaming, a lot of his ideas on how a game should be run were TERRIBLE. What a bad way to DM...



Truer words were never spoken.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Bazinga



In all fairness.  The response was directed towards a player that was being disruptive to the game.  Like anything else in the rule books, it is just a suggestion.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

In all fairness.  The response was directed towards a player that was being disruptive to the game.  Like anything else in the rule books, it is just a suggestion.




A very bad suggestion.  Meeting douchebaggery with douchebaggery rarely generates positive results.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Well I might of suggested a throat strike.  But it is kinder gentler world nowadays...

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

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