Planeswalker Types

54 posts / 0 new
Last post

Each M:tG player represents a planeswalker.  It's a simple premise that presents a lot of questions when viewed from within the Multiverse itself.   Some of you may have already pondered that there needs to be a multiverse planeswwalker type for each of the M:tG formats of play.  From strongest to weakeast they are:


-Ancient*


-Vintage


-Legacy


-Extended


-Modern


-Standard


-Block (Yes I know Urza or Mirrodin Block could dominate - speaking in a general sense)


-Elder Dragon Highlander


*The most powerful type of planeswalker is when M:tG first, first came about when there were no limits on card count.  You could literally have a deck that consisted of 20 Black Lotus, 20 Lighting Bolt, 20 Ancestral Recall.  It's because of this craziness that a limit of 4 spells per deck was put into place.  Almost no one plays like this anymore and no sanctioned event would ever consider which would correspond with an 'in universe' explanation why the most powerful planeswalkers are rare.


Even if we were to codify the formats into cool sounding planeswalker types we would also have to explain hybrid planeswalkers.  How else would you explain (via the Multiverse) the same player playing Legacy every Wednesday night but at a Standard tournament every FNM?  That implies that perhaps it's not planeswalker types that are the issue but the spells themselves that place restrictions upon the planeswalkers.


There would also need to be multiverse explantions for banned and restricted cards and perhaps an extra type of planeswalker: WotC staff who design M:tG sets.


Of course you can dismiss this as a fan just 'thinking too much into it' but that's who I am.  And to an extent so are you because look where you are reading this.  ;)

lihimsidhe.com

Can I propose an alternative suggestion? I've always thought about different Magic games as different types of conflict. It can be an organized magical duel, a six second fight, a decade-spanning war... Different formats are just different ways the conflict can go. Type 2 are organized duels, EDH/Commander are plane-spanning plots for power...


Can I propose an alternative suggestion? I've always thought about different Magic games as different types of conflict. It can be an organized magical duel, a six second fight, a decade-spanning war... Different formats are just different ways the conflict can go. Type 2 are organized duels, EDH/Commander are plane-spanning plots for power...


Of course you can dismiss this as a fan just 'thinking too much into it' but that's who I am.  And to an extent so are you because look where you are reading this.  ;)


If anyone on this sub-forum ever scolds someone for thinking too much into it, I'll personally hire an assassin to kill them.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.


Can I propose an alternative suggestion? I've always thought about different Magic games as different types of conflict. It can be an organized magical duel, a six second fight, a decade-spanning war... Different formats are just different ways the conflict can go. Type 2 are organized duels, EDH/Commander are plane-spanning plots for power...


Of course you can dismiss this as a fan just 'thinking too much into it' but that's who I am.  And to an extent so are you because look where you are reading this.  ;)


If anyone on this sub-forum ever scolds someone for thinking too much into it, I'll personally hire an assassin to kill them.




I see what you're saying.  The different formats are more or less customs between planeswalkers - their own societial norms if you will.  However, even among gentlemen's duels there have been people who just said 'f it', broke the rules, and flat out cheated to victory.  Those players/planeswalkers get disqualified.  In the multiverse a planeswalker can't be disqualified of course so there has to exist a reason why every Standard Orzhov minded planeswalker isn't packing a suite of Vindicates for example.

There has to exist a multiverse explanation that separates a Legacy planeswalker from a Standard planeswalker.  On the same note there has to exist a reason why a Legacy planeswalker has his or her spell choice limited when they go 'Standard'.   

lihimsidhe.com

There has to exist a multiverse explanation that separates a Legacy planeswalker from a Standard planeswalker.  On the same note there has to exist a reason why a Legacy planeswalker has his or her spell choice limited when they go 'Standard'.   




Gameplay and Story Segregation

A necessary evil. If Wizards tried to make the gameplay and flavor of the game 1:1 we end up with god awful cards that are miles and miles of obtuse combersome text.

The gentleman's agreement theory is probably the best bet you're going to get. 
The gentleman's agreement theory is probably the best bet you're going to get. 


This.
I like that this theory supports EDH being a friendly little duel while vintage is a no-hold-barred dethmatch with somebody you are determined to defeat. Just like real life!
In that case though vintage shouldn't have 3 matches in a round since the victor would probably just kill the other guy after their first win.
I like that this theory supports EDH being a friendly little duel while vintage is a no-hold-barred dethmatch with somebody you are determined to defeat. Just like real life!
In that case though vintage shouldn't have 3 matches in a round since the victor would probably just kill the other guy after their first win.



EDH only has one because three EDH matches would last until the end of the multiverse.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
One of the key reasons I'm asking is an attempt to quanitfy a planeswalker's abilities.  If someone was to ask you, "Who would win in a fight between a planeswalker and x character", how would you really know beyond intuition?  Even though so many things a planeswalker can do are laid out in plain rules there's still a lot of room for ambiguity.

It seems to be the consensus that the different formats are a social convention that is specific to planeswalkers.  Okay that 'can' work.  It's the easiest answer that's for sure.  But is it THE answer?  Is that the best we can come up with?  I am not being confrontational or condescending it's just I'm neurotic about this kind of stuff.

An explanation beyond social constrictions is where in the multiverse a planeswalker duels determines what spells they can use.  A certain part of the  multiverse allows only for the newest spells to be utilized (Standard/tournaments) where other places allow anything (Vintage/friend's house on Wednesday nights).  Some planeswalkers willing enter the 'standard' space of the multiverse because they do not want to fall behind in power by letting their competition/enemies learn spells that they do not.  

That can work.  The question after this is where in the multiverse makes sense for this type of restriction?  From what I know in the multiverse there are the main planes and in between the main planes there is the Blidning Eternities.  Two places doesn't seem to be enough to cover all the different formats.  Unless perhaps locations PLUS social conventions. 
lihimsidhe.com
It doesn't really work with two places but htat just means that the multiverse is more of a spectrum. New magic can be radiating out of certain locations (where the new sets are) as whatever force creatred the multiverse is active there before it moves on to other planes in the multiverse. I guess that would mean there was no big bang in MTG but there are many Little Spouts existing on some other dimension, constantly creating new spacetime/magic/whatever as they float across the multiverse.
That or it's just that newer planes radiate new magics when they're created and for a time afterwards while older planes are in a more settled and stagnant state. I suppouse planes could settle at different rates and there might even be some means of reactiviating these growth spurts not yet understood by MTG scientists.
You're not going to get a better answer than that, because I can safely say that no one in Wizards is going to go through the effort of thinking about this when it doesn't make an impact to the game proper.
Only hardcore story nuts like us would appreciate this sort of thing.

Different locales in the verse do indeed affect the magic of duels.
The World Enchantments were indicative of this, and the Planechase format is their successor.
And we've seen this sort of thing in the lore; like the Roil on Zendikar making spellcraft more potent or impotent, or the curse on Diraden that prevented the use of non-black mana.

     
One of the key reasons I'm asking is an attempt to quanitfy a planeswalker's abilities.  If someone was to ask you, "Who would win in a fight between a planeswalker and x character", how would you really know beyond intuition?


You ask it here. Most people here have at least some grasps of the powers each 'walker possesses and if no-one else knows, or people disagree, Barinellos will settle it.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

One of the key reasons I'm asking is an attempt to quanitfy a planeswalker's abilities.  If someone was to ask you, "Who would win in a fight between a planeswalker and x character", how would you really know beyond intuition?  Even though so many things a planeswalker can do are laid out in plain rules there's still a lot of room for ambiguity.



Euuurhgeurhbqwh

Those threads are the worst.
The. Worst. 

You have to understand, just like in the actual game, there is no one "winning strategy" in the lore.
It's a big-arse game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.    
Yeah, I think the reason you're not getting satisfactory answers is not because the answers aren't good but because you're asking the wrong question, if that makes sense.

Like, ok. Jace vs Tezzeret. Tezzeret absolutely has more raw magical power and experience than Jace does. I don't think that's in question. If you ask who would win in a fight between Jace and Tezzeret, the answer is Tezzeret.

But the Multiverse isn't limited to that question. You also have to ask who would win in a fight between Tezzeret and Jace plus a bunch of Nezumi who are ticked off because Tezzeret ordered a hit on their leader.

Power Level arguments are really popular among nerds. They're really silly, though, because power levels really don't make for great storytelling. Like, DBZ, for example, uses power levels not just because "hey this guy can beat up this guy" but because it sets up this interesting, dramatic pendulum swing as characters unlock more and more of their potential and the fight escalates to higher and higher stakes. So, the only good answer to "Can this character beat up this character?" is "I dunno, what point are they in each of their story arcs?"
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.

Nerds like boxes. And numbers. And clear answers. Despite all their creativity, they crave structure. 


And without artifacts for Tezzeret, Jace actually stands somewhat of a chance.


The main reason I dislike can X beat Y (and I kinda enjoy Deadliest Warrior type things) is because it excludes pretty much every skillset outside of combat capabilities. Could the Doctor beat Roboduck (Are the Ducktales a thing in the US?)? Probably not in a physical fight, but he could easily outsmart him, or otherwise mess with him.

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

It doesn't really work with two places but htat just means that the multiverse is more of a spectrum. New magic can be radiating out of certain locations (where the new sets are) as whatever force creatred the multiverse is active there before it moves on to other planes in the multiverse. I guess that would mean there was no big bang in MTG but there are many Little Spouts existing on some other dimension, constantly creating new spacetime/magic/whatever as they float across the multiverse.
That or it's just that newer planes radiate new magics when they're created and for a time afterwards while older planes are in a more settled and stagnant state. I suppouse planes could settle at different rates and there might even be some means of reactiviating these growth spurts not yet understood by MTG scientists.



Spouts.  I'm liking this.  It's simple and seems feasible.  The further you travel from known spouts (tournaments, FNM's, casual play) the less and less restricted they become.  Eventually they can approach even the edge of the Blind Eternities (that old, OLD, school player who still plays by the original rules: no card limits.  Play what you want, however you want, and just see what happens).  Spouts can also be another word for codified reality or consensual belief systems (for those of you familiar with Mage: The Ascension which incidentally is the inspiration for this entire thread).

You're not going to get a better answer than that, because I can safely say that no one in Wizards is going to go through the effort of thinking about this when it doesn't make an impact to the game proper.
Only hardcore story nuts like us would appreciate this sort of thing.

Different locales in the verse do indeed affect the magic of duels.
The World Enchantments were indicative of this, and the Planechase format is their successor.
And we've seen this sort of thing in the lore; like the Roil on Zendikar making spellcraft more potent or impotent, or the curse on Diraden that prevented the use of non-black mana. 



You are DAMN right.  Wizards won't do this and we are hardcore story nuts.  I would love to be able to shut my labtop and we all magically meet up at a bar tonight to share some beers and dorkstorm late into the night about multiverse metaphysics.  We can't so that's why we are here.

One of the key reasons I'm asking is an attempt to quanitfy a planeswalker's abilities.  If someone was to ask you, "Who would win in a fight between a planeswalker and x character", how would you really know beyond intuition?  Even though so many things a planeswalker can do are laid out in plain rules there's still a lot of room for ambiguity.



Euuurhgeurhbqwh

Those threads are the worst.
The. Worst. 

You have to understand, just like in the actual game, there is no one "winning strategy" in the lore.
It's a big-arse game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.    



I am one of those nerds.  But a civil one.  Inquisitive.  Neurotic.  It's not so much about planeswalker vs planeswalker but planeswalker vs non planeswalker.  As in characters from other fictions.  I know that Jace Belren would utterly dominate Harry Potter but how can I lay this out in clearer terms than saying, "Dude are you serious?  Harry Potter would get mindraped into being unborn from the timestream... you CAN'T be serious!"

Basically I'm interested in creating a planeswalker class with appropriate stats to see how a planeswalker would fair aginast other characters.  Why?  Because that's my pleasure.  I can't describe it any other way.

Yeah, I think the reason you're not getting satisfactory answers is not because the answers aren't good but because you're asking the wrong question, if that makes sense.

Like, ok. Jace vs Tezzeret. Tezzeret absolutely has more raw magical power and experience than Jace does. I don't think that's in question. If you ask who would win in a fight between Jace and Tezzeret, the answer is Tezzeret.

But the Multiverse isn't limited to that question. You also have to ask who would win in a fight between Tezzeret and Jace plus a bunch of Nezumi who are ticked off because Tezzeret ordered a hit on their leader.

Power Level arguments are really popular among nerds. They're really silly, though, because power levels really don't make for great storytelling. Like, DBZ, for example, uses power levels not just because "hey this guy can beat up this guy" but because it sets up this interesting, dramatic pendulum swing as characters unlock more and more of their potential and the fight escalates to higher and higher stakes. So, the only good answer to "Can this character beat up this character?" is "I dunno, what point are they in each of their story arcs?"



Okay let's take Chandra Naalar vs Freeza.  Where would we even start?  Freeza has the equivalent of spells like 'Planet Buster.  RRU.  Instant.  Deal 1,000,000 damage to all opponents and exile are permanents."  I mean that is just the ridiculous power level of DBZ.  Would Freeza be a creature?  The equivalent of a planeswalker card?  Another card entirely?

On one hand I'd be inclined to say Freeza would dominate.  On the other hand it could be said a well timed Shunt would cause his planet busting attack to explode in his face.  But who can really say?  US.

The answers to these questions start in threads like these.  It all starts somewhere.  I'm driven to analyze planeswalkers because I'm interested in breaking them down.  It's not because I want to stir up some huge nerd rage argument.  I just want like minded players such as ourselves to brainstorm together and see if we can tackle this task if we put our minds to it.

Already we've come up with a decent solution that explains in universe the reason for different formats.  Locations.  Customs.  Planeswalker experience.   That's something I was mostly clueless how to solve when creating this thread and now we have a solution.  See?  Progress!!!!

 
lihimsidhe.com

I am one of those nerds.  But a civil one.  Inquisitive.  Neurotic.  It's not so much about planeswalker vs planeswalker but planeswalker vs non planeswalker.  As in characters from other fictions.  I know that Jace Beleren would utterly dominate Harry Potter but how can I lay this out in clearer terms than saying, "Dude are you serious?  Harry Potter would get mindraped into being unborn from the timestream... you CAN'T be serious!"



You know what I really hate. When nerds (and I consider myself one) start a reply with: "Actually," and then proceed to tell you how you're wrong. It comes of as really condescending. So I didn't start this with: "Actually."


Harry Potter could actually win against Jace. (If we're talking Harry in The Deadly Hallows). Jace main advantage is his mindreading and his mind control. Harry has shown himself to be capable of resisting strong mind control. Apart from this, Jace utilizes Illusions, which might prove a small problem, but as long as Harry can focus his spells on Jace himself, the battle would be over rather quickly. 

After the official forums lost most of their functionality, a once vibrant community of Vorthos was wiped out.The survivors founded a new place to discuss all things concerning with the art, flavor and storylines of Magic: The Gathering. Come join us.

I would love to be able to shut my labtop and we all magically meet up at a bar tonight to share some beers and dorkstorm late into the night about multiverse metaphysics.  We can't so that's why we are here.



You're definitely not the first person here to wish that. :P

It's not because I want to stir up some huge nerd rage argument.  I just want like minded players such as ourselves to brainstorm together and see if we can tackle this task if we put our minds to it.

Already we've come up with a decent solution that explains in universe the reason for different formats.  Locations.  Customs.  Planeswalker experience.   That's something I was mostly clueless how to solve when creating this thread and now we have a solution.  See?  Progress!!!!

 


Hah, no, I get that. I'm just suggesting that looking at raw ability is missing the deeper purpose that drives ALL fiction, which is theme and developmental arcs and stuff like that. Like, to use your example, maybe Harry can't beat Jace in raw numerical values, but if the story calls for him to beat Jace because Jace needs that defeat to move his character arc in a new direction, that's what'll happen.

I'm just not sure you can create an abstract system that exists outside of a narrative, if that makes sense.

But I'm a literary theorist, so I'm biased. And probably insane.
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.
Like, ok. Jace vs Tezzeret. Tezzeret absolutely has more raw magical power and experience than Jace does. I don't think that's in question. If you ask who would win in a fight between Jace and Tezzeret, the answer is Tezzeret.


I just have to interject, no he doesn't. He does have ACCESS to more raw magical power, but without his arm mainlining mana directly into his system, Tezzeret is barely capable of casting an illusion. You should know this, because he spent most of his time naked in Test of Metal.

Still, the distinction was such that I felt it needed to be made. Tezzeret can't compete without the use of toys.

For the record, locations can't account for NEWER magic, it can only account for your ability to draw more or less mana to cast  your spells dependent on the plane. Standard and the like just couldn't be explained like that.
Ok, that's fair. Tezzeret is a pretty mediocre spellcaster. He's canny enough to set things up to his advantage, though.

Which is kind of the point anyway--it's all about a combination of positioning and the demands of the narrative. 
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.
Where the flavor to mechanics really breaks down for me in Magic is the potential for infinite combos in the game. I mean, why would Niv-Mizzet bother absorbing the Conflux if he can just just grab a couple Staff of Dominations, a Clock of Omens and a Gilded Lotus, which will provide him infinite mana, life, power, and knowledge.

THus any format where combos are a real thing seems difficult to transalate in a flavor perspective. 
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
Where the flavor to mechanics really breaks down for me in Magic is the potential for infinite combos in the game. I mean, why would Niv-Mizzet bother absorbing the Conflux if he can just just grab a couple Staff of Dominations, a Clock of Omens and a Gilded Lotus, which will provide him infinite mana, life, power, and knowledge.

THus any format where combos are a real thing seems difficult to transalate in a flavor perspective. 



You meant Bolas.
And the combos are technically possible, but where I see them breaking down in the flavor is... well, the parts involved will literally break down. They can only take so much stress.
Where the flavor to mechanics really breaks down for me in Magic is the potential for infinite combos in the game. I mean, why would Niv-Mizzet bother absorbing the Conflux if he can just just grab a couple Staff of Dominations, a Clock of Omens and a Gilded Lotus, which will provide him infinite mana, life, power, and knowledge.

THus any format where combos are a real thing seems difficult to transalate in a flavor perspective. 



If I combo off with Power Artifact and [c]Basalt Monolith[c] I look at it as if I'm generating enough mana to win with one blow. Victory in the card game isn't killing your opponent, just making them retreat in my opinion.

The better thing to be confused about is manaless dredge. 

"The fuel on which science runs is ignorance. Science is like a hungry furnace that must be fed logs from the forests of ignorance that surround us. In the process, the clearing we call knowledge expands, but the more it expands, the longer its perimeter and the more ignorance comes into view." -Matt Ridley, Genome

Where the flavor to mechanics really breaks down for me in Magic is the potential for infinite combos in the game. I mean, why would Niv-Mizzet bother absorbing the Conflux if he can just just grab a couple Staff of Dominations, a Clock of Omens and a Gilded Lotus, which will provide him infinite mana, life, power, and knowledge.

THus any format where combos are a real thing seems difficult to transalate in a flavor perspective. 



You meant Bolas.
And the combos are technically possible, but where I see them breaking down in the flavor is... well, the parts involved will literally break down. They can only take so much stress.


Yeah, but at suffeciently large levels of mana, don't you just make new ones? I'm sure if I tried I could find a way to get infinite infinite mana combos.

Manaless Dredge is just a Planeswalker gone so mad that their nightmares literally come crawling from their skull to attack everyone near them. 
"I think me going Bang bang bang I win is pretty intuitive" Mafia Record: Wouldn't you like to know? 2011 Mafia Awards - Mastermind of the Year
mymoment
\
57817638 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
88318561 wrote:
58060728 wrote:
Moriok Rigger does absolutely nothing to boost other riggers. You are incorrect.
Moriok Rigger is not a Rigger in print. Only in Errata WHAT NOW! (yes, I did put that phrase in for that exact reason)
Congratulations, they have activated your trap card!
"Actually..."... good stuff there Yxoque.  See the problem I have with the Harry Potter example is that Harry Potter would just be a creature that Jace could cast Control Magic on, send a Jace's Phantasm on, or 'bounce' back to wherever he would get boucned too (where does a bounced creature go if a planeswalker isn't controlling it???).  The thing is I really am not knowledgable about Harry Potter.  I never got onto that train.  It's just in my mind I don't see a broom riding teenager throwing around magic bolts taking out a planeswalker.  HOWEVER, we all had those games where despite our deck being powerful we just drew land after land while a Mesmeric Fiend beat us down for 15 turns.  Mana screw.  We've all been there.  We all will be there again.

The point isn't for us to settle once and for all the Jace x Potter debate it's to break down what a planeswalker is capable of using the game itself as a guideline.  For example I've never been killed in a game of M:tG.  Right before the fatal blow is delievered I scoop up my deck and say, "Planeswalk!  I'm outta here!"  So just from that simple little description we can discern that:

-A planeswalker can at a moment's notice disengage from combat and travel to another plane.

The only M:tG book I read was 'The Thran'.  In it Yawgmoth while still just a normal human machinated a planeswalker into a situation where some mutant snuck up behind her and stabbed her in the brain rapidly and while she was stunned, got her to some table that continued to scramble her brain like a blender would do to a bowl of mashpotatoes.  She didn't die because she used all her planeswalker ability to keep herself alive while her brain was literry being stirred around at rapid speeds.  In this situation she couldn't just 'planeswalk' at a moment's notice otherwise she would have.

So either this planeswalker was armed with a regneration type of spell to keep herself alive or planeswalkers have an innate ability to manipulate matter.  Or maybe just some do.  Or perhaps it was a combo of both.

That's the best place to start before we get into spells.  The base ablities of a planeswalker.  What can they do w/o spells?  Is a player level planeswalker lack of ability to deal damage to creatures w/o the aid of spells or creatures a game balance issue or is the act of 'full planeswalking' require such a level of concentration they can not even lift a finger to defend themselves? 


lihimsidhe.com
-A planeswalker can at a moment's notice disengage from combat and travel to another plane.


In game terms. The truth of the matter is different. It now takes a certain amount of concentration to feel out the barrier of the world and then split it asunder to escape. It CAN be done in combat, but not at a moment's notice.
You have to start putting yourself in the right frame of mind when you realize something is definitely not going right for you.

So either this planeswalker was armed with a regneration type of spell to keep herself alive or planeswalkers have an innate ability to manipulate matter.  Or maybe just some do.  Or perhaps it was a combo of both.


Planeswalkers then and now are not the same. Back then, a planeswalker's body was just a large meat puppet they put on to interact with people. They normally existed as a sort of freeform consciousness that could construct a body to meet their needs.

That's the best place to start before we get into spells.  The base ablities of a planeswalker.  What can they do w/o spells?  Is a player level planeswalker lack of ability to deal damage to creatures w/o the aid of spells or creatures a game balance issue or is the act of 'full planeswalking' require such a level of concentration they can not even lift a finger to defend themselves? 


It's both more and less than that really. The base abilities of a planeswalker isn't their entire repetoire, it's just what they are willing to do for you at that moment for having theoretically struck a deal with them. I actually just wrote a short piece not too long ago that looked at what that meant:
community.wizards.com/expandedmultiverse...
The base abilities are just the spells they feel like using, not something that they inherently are able to do.

You have to start putting yourself in the right frame of mind when you realize something is definitely not going right for you.


Or as Ajani would put it: "Coming right at me--!"

I'm never going to let that go.



The card game isn't actually a very good source for what 'walkers can do in-story. It's a lot easier to will something back to life in the game than in the storyline, for example, where a perfect resurrection is canonically impossible.
Coming Soon to the Magic: Expanded Multiverse: FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
(Click through to view the cover and announcement page)Want to get your work in the Expanded Multiverse? Come join the project! Oh, and check out my blog, Storming the Ivory Tower: making sense of academia, media, and culture twice weekly.

You have to start putting yourself in the right frame of mind when you realize something is definitely not going right for you.


Or as Ajani would put it: "Coming right at me--!"

I'm never going to let that go.



Eh, but you do bring up that there is something like reflexive planeswalking, but things are going to go poorly if you just blindly leap into the eternities to escape danger. You basically have no control at that point.

Or as Ajani would put it: "Coming right at me--!"

I'm never going to let that go.


?

Each M:tG player represents a planeswalker.



You know, I never thought about it before, but if two people with the same first name play a game of magic, do they both lose the first time SBAs are checked?

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
You're not going to get a better answer than that, because I can safely say that no one in Wizards is going to go through the effort of thinking about this when it doesn't make an impact to the game proper.
Only hardcore story nuts like us would appreciate this sort of thing.

Different locales in the verse do indeed affect the magic of duels.
The World Enchantments were indicative of this, and the Planechase format is their successor.
And we've seen this sort of thing in the lore; like the Roil on Zendikar making spellcraft more potent or impotent, or the curse on Diraden that prevented the use of non-black mana.

     



Not to mention that it was basically confirmed with Shards of Alara's flavor. You can't light a torch with a spell on Bant or Esper, for instance, because you don't have red mana. You can, however, light it the old-fashioned way.


Each M:tG player represents a planeswalker.



You know, I never thought about it before, but if two people with the same first name play a game of magic, do they both lose the first time SBAs are checked?



What if your name is Chandra?
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Not to mention that it was basically confirmed with Shards of Alara's flavor. You can't light a torch with a spell on Bant or Esper, for instance, because you don't have red mana. You can, however, light it the old-fashioned way.


That's only true if you are from Bant or Esper and had never been anywhere else.
The travel guide advises against using red mana because you'd stand out, not that it was impossible to access your mana lines offworld.
What if your name is Chandra?



Liliana and Gideon are fairly common as first names.

[<o>]
What if your name is Chandra?



Liliana and Gideon are fairly common as first names.



So's Jace.

An argument could be made for Tibalt, but it wouldn't be very strong. Just like him!

An argument could be made for Tibalt, but it wouldn't be very strong. Just like him!



#Rimshot

Oh be nice.
Just because his card is super weak doesn't me he is.
We have no idea how strong Tibalt is.   

An argument could be made for Tibalt, but it wouldn't be very strong. Just like him!



#Rimshot

Oh be nice.
Just because his card is super weak doesn't me he is.
We have no idea how strong Tibalt is.   



You're right, I'm being unfair because of his card.
I should be fair because he flunked out of stitching bodies together and ascended all of last month.
Here's hoping the devils brang something to the table, because he sure as hellmouth didn't.


You're right, I'm being unfair because of his card.
I should be fair because he flunked out of stitching bodies together and ascended all of last month.
Here's hoping the devils brang something to the table, because he sure as hellmouth didn't.



You're so snarky today.
We don't have a specific for when he ascended no?
Avacyn was missing for about a year so it could have been any time during then, probably leaning towards the later given the increased activities of the devils and cathars.  
You're so snarky today.
We don't have a specific for when he ascended no?
Avacyn was missing for about a year so it could have been any time during then, probably leaning towards the later given the increased activities of the devils and cathars.  



My rest was disturbed having to lay waste to a civilization on the other side of the galaxy and I couldn't get back to sleep.
Given that there was a fair number of cathars who tracked him down, it seems likely that they had less on their plate than during Avacyn's disappearance. I think he ascended after her return.
You guys should check out Island's Tibalt Red thread in standard deck help. The walker is a house in the right shell come gatecrash .
Show
Obligatory and Preliminary Smiley Reservoir: IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/Wee.png)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/Dancing%20AIM.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/rawr.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/ghgh.png)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/%5D%5D.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/luv.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/circle.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sly.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/turtle.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/jade.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/proud.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wilson.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/pcXQL.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/blushing.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/proud.png)
You guys should check out Island's Tibalt Red thread in standard deck help. The walker is a house in the right shell come gatecrash .



No he isn't. Anyone who says he is useful is terrible or lying.

"The fuel on which science runs is ignorance. Science is like a hungry furnace that must be fed logs from the forests of ignorance that surround us. In the process, the clearing we call knowledge expands, but the more it expands, the longer its perimeter and the more ignorance comes into view." -Matt Ridley, Genome

On the topic of names and how commonplace they are, I just battled someone in Pokemon (harhar, laugh it up.) who they had named "Ace Trainer Chandra". She used two fire-type pokemon.

Not sure if that means anything. 
You guys should check out Island's Tibalt Red thread in standard deck help. The walker is a house in the right shell come gatecrash .



No he isn't. Anyone who says he is useful is terrible or lying.


You sound dogmatic.
Show
Obligatory and Preliminary Smiley Reservoir: IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/Wee.png)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/Dancing%20AIM.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/rawr.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/ghgh.png)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/%5D%5D.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/luv.gif)IMAGE(http://rsescape.net/forum/Smileys/RSE%20emotes/circle.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sly.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/turtle.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/jade.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/proud.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wilson.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/pcXQL.gif)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/blushing.png)IMAGE(http://www.the-gladiatorz.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/proud.png)
Sign In to post comments