New and I Need Help With My Build

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Hey there! So here is the deal. I have never actually played D&D before, but a few friends of mine (none of them have played more than once or twice) and I have decided to pick it up. So as of the past two weeks or so I have been working on building my character. Now I have a background in liking thing where in you try to optimize what you are working on to the best of what it can be, but like I said I am new to D&D, so I was wondering if there aren't any harden veterans out there who would be willing to look at a build I am working on.


The classes I have been working on a lot have been a Shielding Swordmage, a Ranger (TS), an Avenger, and then lastly a hybrid Avenger/Ranger (TS). The one I am looking at most at this point is the hybrid. As I was working on the pure forms of it I notices a potential to be able to optimize the ranger's Twin Strike (TS) with many of the Avenger's abilities (ie Oath of Enmity with some later bonus appearing). What I am thinking get a very strong EVEN dpr. To do this I am focusing in on that wonderful TS and Hunter's Quarry. So here is what I want to have do down within the next few levels.


Here are the steps:


1) Get the feat to let myself use spiked chains and have it count as a weapon in each hand each with each doing 2d4 (Did this already as my level 1 feat)


2) Next I go in and get the Avenging Resolution feat which makes any damage die that rolled by me for a weapon attack against my Oath target that are 1 or 2 act as a 3. So that means at level two with twin strike (If I hit, and remember I get 2 rolls) I am doing at least a guaranteed 15 damage. [2d4 with each die being at least 3 so 6 from each weapon totaling in 12 plus my Hunter's Quarry (HQ) of at least 3 for grand total of 15 <6+6+3=15> on top of that I have a few minor actions that could replace HQ that are encounters which do a bit more and have fun side effects.


3) From this point I will need to look at my defenses and work on those (leather armor would put me at 13 AC) as I have silly low AC.



So that is my plan so far. My biggest flaw of course being my defense. What I have done to help that already is boost my hp using Born Under a Bad Sign as my theme to give me wiggle room and make me reach bloodied with more health. The reason I want that higher bloodied heal is for my Shifter daily (can only activate while bloodied) which gives me plus two damage (moar for TS) and 2 regen. Also I at 10 from my merc theme I get +1 to all defenses. Aside from that the only damage mitigation I have is my Radiant Vengeance ability (at will) which deals 1d8+wisdom mod (+4) then give me temp hits of my wisdom mod (once again 4). That has a 10 range so that can help me a bit. Soooo I have a bit of mitigation built in but still feel super squishy, and am worried about it.


In conclusion I am new and unsure, and would love for some people to look of this and help me out. Like I said I haven't even played before so all this is in theory to me, which I know differs from practice. Any thoughts are help, and I have also posted my character sheet below. There are two variations the only difference being that one pull out of wisdom a bit to go into dex more to boost my AC my a bit more (2). I'm not sure I like that more as it cuts my wisdom mod by 2 (leaving it at 2) which reduces that at will temp health I would get. Anywho thanks for the assistance in this matter!






Basic Build without moving from wisdom to dexterity:
 


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 1
Longtooth Shifter, Avenger/Ranger
Hybrid Avenger Option: Hybrid Avenger Fortitude
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Dark Sun, Inherent Bonuses, Spellscarred, Harper, House Vadalis, Circle of Smoke and Whispers
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Mercenary

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 10, DEX 13, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 9

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 10, DEX 13, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 9


AC: 11 Fort: 15 Ref: 12 Will: 14
HP: 31 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +11, Heal +9, Perception +9, Stealth +6

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +1, Arcana +0, Bluff –1, Diplomacy –1, Dungeoneering +4, Endurance +2, History +0, Insight +4, Intimidate –1, Nature +4, Religion +0, Streetwise –1, Thievery +1

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Mercenary Attack: Takedown Strike
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Avenger Feature: Oath of Enmity
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Avenger Attack 1: Radiant Vengeance
Ranger Attack 1: Off-Hand Strike
Ranger Attack 1: Jaws of the Wolf

FEATS
Level 1: Spiked Chain Training

ITEMS
Holy Symbol x1
Spiked chain x1
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) x1
Footpads
Writing case
Adventurer's Kit
Climber's Kit
Ten-foot pole
Fire Kit
Sunrod
Desert Clothing
Rubbing Kit
Artisan's Tools
Cold-weather clothing
====== End ======







Build with pulling to dex from wisdom: 

 


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
- Copy, level 1
Longtooth Shifter, Avenger/Ranger
Hybrid Avenger Option: Hybrid Avenger Fortitude
Hybrid Ranger Option: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Dark Sun, Inherent Bonuses, Spellscarred, Harper, House Vadalis, Circle of Smoke and Whispers
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Mercenary

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 10, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 10, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 13, CHA 8


AC: 13 Fort: 15 Ref: 14 Will: 12
HP: 31 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 7

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +11, Heal +7, Perception +7, Stealth +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +0, Bluff –1, Diplomacy –1, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +2, History +0, Insight +2, Intimidate –1, Nature +2, Religion +0, Streetwise –1, Thievery +3

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Mercenary Attack: Takedown Strike
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Avenger Feature: Oath of Enmity
Hunter's Quarry Power: Hunter's Quarry
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
Avenger Attack 1: Radiant Vengeance
Ranger Attack 1: Off-Hand Strike
Ranger Attack 1: Jaws of the Wolf

FEATS
Level 1: Spiked Chain Training

ITEMS
Holy Symbol x1
Spiked chain x1
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) x1
Footpads
Writing case
Adventurer's Kit
Climber's Kit
Ten-foot pole
Fire Kit
Sunrod
Desert Clothing
Rubbing Kit
Artisan's Tools
Cold-weather clothing
====== End ======

When you hybrid, you can not use one class special with the other class.

OATH OF ENMITY (HYBRID)
You gain the avenger power oath of enmity. The power functions as normal, except that you can apply the effect only when you make a melee attack using an avenger power or an avenger paragon path power.

HUNTER'S QUARRY (HYBRID)
This class feature functions as the ranger class feature, except that you can deal the extra damage only when you hit your quarry with a ranger power or a ranger paragon path power.

They show up without any conflict or notification on Wizards' character builder tool.
For an avenger with twin strike, consider a half-elf with twin strike dilettante. I think a double weapon would be the way to go.

The problem with that is it doesn't get going until paragon.
They show up without any conflict or notification on Wizards' character builder tool.

The CB is Not A Rules Source. It is a third party piece of software, coded to usually (not always) reflect the rules. Even when it isn't wrong, it sometimes hides certain bits of information. It is still a useful resource, but you shouldn't trust it.

Hybrid features, in general, only work on the powers of the class it came from.
If it's your first time, I would recommend you avoid hybrid builds in general.  You don't need to hybrid to have a good character, and with hybrids it's easy to screw yourself if you don't know what you're doing.

The best way to do the Twin-Strike Avenger is to go half-elf and use half-elf dilettante to pick up Twin Strike.  Unfortunately, I can't really recommend that unless you're starting at level 11 or higher, because the feat you need to get Twin Strike at-will doesn't become available until Paragon.

As a consolation prize, you can play as a melee ranger and pick up the Avenger multiclass feat Disciple of Divine Wrath.  This gives you one use of Oath of Enmity per encounter, which you can stretch over two rounds of combat as it it lasts until the end of your next turn.  That could really help your accuracy on your nova round.
DM advice: 1. Do a Session Zero. 2. Start With Action. 3. Always say "Yes" to player ideas. 4. Don't build railroads. 5. Make success, failure, and middling rolls interesting. Player advice: 1. Don't be a dick. 2. Build off each other, don't block each other. 3. You're supposed to be a badass. Act like it. Take risks. My poorly updated blog: http://engineeredfun.wordpress.com/
How much do you want to be a longtooth shifter? The racial power is good, but there isn't a lot of feat support for the race.

In my opinion, a better option is either half-orc or human.

With a half-orc you can make your stats STR 18 DEX 18 WIS 13. Combine this with Hide armor (not leather!) and you'll have an AC of 17, which isn't too shabby. If you want extra damage while bloodied you can take the Strength From Pain feat later on (but it's not necessary- really. Rangers can do a TON of damage already).

If you play a human, you can go STR 20 CON 13 DEX 13 and use your first two feats (humans get a bonus feat at level 1) for Armor Proficiency (Chainmail) and Armor Proficiency (Scale). With scale armor your AC will be 17 as well.

If you're going to hybrid (which I wouldn't recommend yet) you might want to look at the Cleric. You can replace healer's lore for battle cleric's lore and gain proficiency with scale armor that way. 
Personally with what you are doing I would echo what the others here say with one minor adjustment.

Play a melee Ranger with MC Avenger for Oath or play a pure half-elf avenger.

The only sidenote is that you can't TS at-will in heroic with your half-elf, but that's not really a huge issue.  You want to be able to do so, but you can still be a fairly strong avenger without it.  Remember that you can retrain and also you can talk to your DM about retraining several things a level if you want to be the most effective you can be throughout heroic and then switch over to the paragon setup once TS becomes at-will. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
First of all, thanks for coming here with a build and some idea of what you're doing. It's more than a lot of folks do.

Hybrids can be awesome, but they have a few drawbacks, two of which your build illustrates pretty well. The first is that, as has been said, hybrid strikers can't really mix and match striker features and powers the way you're trying to do. Secondly, since they always get the worst of the two classes' armor proficiencies, you have to do something to address defenses. In this case, that would probably mean the Unarmored Agility feat (+2AC) and Hybrid Talent: Armor of Faith (+3AC).

Anyway, there are two main ways to get the Avenger's double roll on Twin Strike. One is to dilettante with Half-Elf, and the other is to Play an Avenger and Paragon Multiclass into Ranger.  PMC is usually a pretty bad idea, but this is one case where it can be worth it. Erachima made a build like this, I'll see if I can dig it up for you to look at.

But either way, the trick isn't going to work at-will until level 11.

edit: Erachima's actually taking the Scout's Dual Weapon Attack, which is even better: Mia, Aspiring Lady of Blades
or as a new player, start with a straight up Two Blade Twin Striking Ranger, take up the multiclass  Avenger feat, as well as the Sohei background and have yourself a nice decent little nova.
edit: Erachima's actually taking the Scout's Dual Weapon Attack, which is even better: Mia, Aspiring Lady of Blades



You should be warned, using PMC to pick up Dual Weapon Attack is rather cheesy, and your DM may turn his nose up at it.
DM advice: 1. Do a Session Zero. 2. Start With Action. 3. Always say "Yes" to player ideas. 4. Don't build railroads. 5. Make success, failure, and middling rolls interesting. Player advice: 1. Don't be a dick. 2. Build off each other, don't block each other. 3. You're supposed to be a badass. Act like it. Take risks. My poorly updated blog: http://engineeredfun.wordpress.com/
edit: Erachima's actually taking the Scout's Dual Weapon Attack, which is even better: Mia, Aspiring Lady of Blades



You should be warned, using PMC to pick up Dual Weapon Attack is rather cheesy, and your DM may turn his nose up at it.



Erachima made a build that smells of Limburger? Say it ain't so! **remembers OAssassin build...**
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
edit: Erachima's actually taking the Scout's Dual Weapon Attack, which is even better: Mia, Aspiring Lady of Blades



You should be warned, using PMC to pick up Dual Weapon Attack is rather cheesy, and your DM may turn his nose up at it.



Erachima made a build that smells of Limburger? Say it ain't so! **remembers OAssassin build...**

You sure it isn't Roquefort?

edit: Erachima's actually taking the Scout's Dual Weapon Attack, which is even better: Mia, Aspiring Lady of Blades



You should be warned, using PMC to pick up Dual Weapon Attack is rather cheesy, and your DM may turn his nose up at it.


This reminds me of the reason people think the Kardashians or Snookie are worth caring about ... because they think people think they are worth caring about.

To be clear, PMC for Dual Weapon Attack isn't cheesy, it isn't broken, it isn't remotely outside the intent of the rules, it's just slightly more creative than most people are, so like so many other things that people get jealous about, it got branded as unfair (or in our parlance, cheesy); so simply because people keep repeating "DMs might not like it", they justify DMs not liking it.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
edit: Erachima's actually taking the Scout's Dual Weapon Attack, which is even better: Mia, Aspiring Lady of Blades



You should be warned, using PMC to pick up Dual Weapon Attack is rather cheesy, and your DM may turn his nose up at it.


This reminds me of the reason people think the Kardashians or Snookie are worth caring about ... because they think people think they are worth caring about.

To be clear, PMC for Dual Weapon Attack isn't cheesy, it isn't broken, it isn't remotely outside the intent of the rules, it's just slightly more creative than most people are, so like so many other things that people get jealous about, it got branded as unfair (or in our parlance, cheesy); so simply because people keep repeating "DMs might not like it", they justify DMs not liking it.



First off, unless you're able to get into the heads of the folks at Wizards, you can't tell what their intent was when they were designing it.  I kind of doubt it was their intent to allow PMC to be used to pick up the main striker feature from another class and have it stack with striker features from your main class, but I'm not one to press the point.

I'm not "jealous" or anything, I'm just trying to give a new player fair warning that, in the words of the author of this build,

Second, in her quest for more attacks and damage, Mia strains the rules pretty much every way I can find to strain them, so your DM may frown on this build.

DM advice: 1. Do a Session Zero. 2. Start With Action. 3. Always say "Yes" to player ideas. 4. Don't build railroads. 5. Make success, failure, and middling rolls interesting. Player advice: 1. Don't be a dick. 2. Build off each other, don't block each other. 3. You're supposed to be a badass. Act like it. Take risks. My poorly updated blog: http://engineeredfun.wordpress.com/
To be clear, PMC for Dual Weapon Attack isn't cheesy, it isn't broken, it isn't remotely outside the intent of the rules

Er?  It is outside the intent of the rules.  One of the Devs is quoted pre-release as saying that the PMC rules were particularly strong for Humans (because of their 3rd (in class level 1) at will.  That's a pretty clear indicator to me of what they expected you to swap, outside the language.

Now, it's turned out that it's not outside the varience of the game, and in retrospect would be completely reasonable (and in retrospect, some more class features should have been written up as powers, to be swap bait).  But that's a different statement.

Edit: Fer example, if the fighter's Combat Challenge were written up as an at-will power, and the Warlock's curse were, and so on, then PMC (limited to class powers: so swapping bull rush) would be an interesting alternative to Hybrid.

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

And while I agree with Zathris that the result isn't particularly cheesy, cheese is entirely a matter of opinion. I think it's extremely sensible to discuss such things with your DM first, particularly if its his first campaign or your first time with the group. Large Op discrepancies either direction detract from everyone's fun.

Mia lands in the realm of "extremely solid," which is a great place to be and stops short of "clearly abusive or OP," but is still significantly better than what I would expect anyone else in an entirely new group of players to bring to the table.


First off, unless you're able to get into the heads of the folks at Wizards, you can't tell what their intent was when they were designing it.  I kind of doubt it was their intent to allow PMC to be used to pick up the main striker feature from another class and have it stack with striker features from your main class, but I'm not one to press the point.


Dev's aren't unknowable omnipotents, they're people who work(ed) for a company with lots of employees and freelance contractors, and if you happen to run into one at a convention late at night on a tuesday and your friend works with/for them, they're often fairly willing to answer questions. And make jokes about another companies insistance on No **** in their games. It also helps if you're at a bar, and everyone is drinking.

Of course, Devs also don't know the game nearly as well as most of us here do, there's 7 things that I've learned were RAI that aren't remotely RAW (and I don't mean the OA or Academy Master issues), but they're "frankly fine with most of what they wrote, and are too busy to change anything right now".
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.